I'm going to re do my last batch but, before I begin ...[UPDATE]

[Frgood]

My last batch of rounds did not work out as I cannot chamber my rounds. I am about to pull all my rounds and start over.

My question is when starting over, do I decap all my primers as well? Or, can I resize my brass and proceed onward?

 

[spife7980]

Pistol, rifle? How can we possibly answer if you don’t tell us anything about what you’re doing?

I’m sure it’ll be fine with primers but I wouldn’t tumble with them in, not be cause of explosions, but because of crap in primer holes. If pistol it doesn’t matter, if precision rifle I would deprime.

This time, measure and check before you proceed instead of afterwards. How is it that they aren’t chambering?

 

[Frgood]

It is 6.5 Creedmoor rifle rounds.

What I am doing is pulling 200 rounds of improperly sized ammo so that I can reload the entire batch. I am going to separate every round so that I can resize all the cartridges properly and reload the batch.

I am not overly thrilled about popping out all the primers as I have no idea if that has an impact on the primer's reusability. So, I am asking if the more experienced folks, when doing a re-do, pop the primers and, after resizing, reuse the primers effectively.

 

[Darkside-Six]

It is 6.5 Creedmoor rifle rounds.

What I am doing is pulling 200 rounds of improperly sized ammo so that I can reload the entire batch. I am going to separate every round so that I can resize all the cartridges properly and reload the batch.

I am not overly thrilled about popping out all the primers as I have no idea if that has an impact on the primer's reusability. So, I am asking if the more experienced folks, when doing a re-do, pop the primers and, after resizing, reuse the primers effectively.

You don’t have to pop out and waste all the primers. Take the decaping pin out of the die and just resize them. Good luck. It’s a pain in the ass but will work just fine.

 

[J.J.chago]

Remove your de-capping pin from the sizing die and proceed

 

[Frgood]

Thanks. It is a harsh lesson I'm learning. heh heh

 

[J.J.chago]

We all make mistakes reloading, just remember you are creating essentially a bomb next to your face. So verify verify verify

 

[Frgood]

What's funny about your 'bomb' comment is that I am too aware of that dynamic and when I build my large scale model rockets, I don't have the same fear. Despite that fact that I have to make my own igniters and the engines are considerably larger explosives.

 

[Frgood]

I might, before I restart, is start a new thread with a question or two. But I want to work on it first and see if I can figure out exactly where I am off.
If I can't explain it to myself I'll probably post the question later today.

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

I wouldn't pull anything. Just buy a redding body die and resize them while they are still loaded.

 

[Rocketmandb]

What's funny about your 'bomb' comment is that I am too aware of that dynamic and when I build my large scale model rockets, I don't have the same fear. Despite that fact that I have to make my own igniters and the engines are considerably larger explosives.

The difference is that in one instance you're standing at a safe distance when the "bomb" goes off, and in the other it's a few inches from your eyeballs

I'm curious, though, as you didn't give much detail, is the brass once-fired? Virgin? If once-fired, is it from your rifle or someone else's? What brand of brass?

It's odd that brass fired through your chamber (or virgin brass), wouldn't chamber, even if not sized appropriately. I'd expect it after maybe 5-6 firings, but not one.

 

[Frgood]

It is once fired. However, the answer to your question is some was fired in this my Tikka and some was fired through my Bergara. Hence this batch is to get everything on the same page (Tikka). So yes some fit okay and, most do not as it was used on the different rifle.

Since the original post, I have been doing a lot of measurements and, of my sample, I'm finding the cartridge diameter at the base (The webbing end?) while under SAAMI spec is .002 over my reference cartridge (Berger 140 gn. OTM). This seems to correspond with the 'feel' when I close the bolt. the bolt gets tight just it gets close to full forward.

I am now going to measure a few more of my loaded rounds to see if this is true for the batch as all other numbers, so far are at or under my reference round.

 

[Rocketmandb]

It is once fired. However, the answer to your question is some was fired in this my Tikka and some was fired through my Bergara. Hence this batch is to get everything on the same page (Tikka). So yes some fit okay and, most do not as it was used on the different rifle.

Since the original post, I have been doing a lot of measurements and, of my sample, I'm finding the cartridge diameter at the base (The webbing end?) while under SAAMI spec is .002 over my reference cartridge (Berger 140 gn. OTM). This seems to correspond with the 'feel' when I close the bolt. the bolt gets tight just it gets close to full forward.

I am now going to measure a few more of my loaded rounds to see if this is true for the batch as all other numbers, so far are at or under my reference round.

Firing with brass fired out of another rifle can cause some problems. You're experiencing one such problem. You're sizing brass from a larger chamber, and it springs back to a larger size than is appropriate for the rifle with the slightly smaller chamber.

I'd bet dimes to dollars that when you try to shoot the Bergara-fired brass (larger chamber) out of the Tikka (smaller chamber), you'll have trouble extracting the cases. Without a much smaller base die, you will continue to have the same problem.

If you have two rifles of the same caliber, unless the chambers were cut with the same reamer, you want to keep the brass separate.

 

[Frgood]

You sir are spot on. extraction is an issue as I continue testing. I'm also seeing that, of the loaded rounds the headspace is little longer. Combining these two issues equals (I think) "No chambering".

Sadly, I'm doing all this as I haven't seen factory Berger OTM ammo for a long time. So, I'll have to figure something out. There are a few things that I have done wrong and the blame is squarely on me. However, I am collecting a list of things that irritate me about the Franklin Arsenal M press. My other one is an old Lee single press and I'm thinking I'll get a better, consistent result.

 

[Rocketmandb]

I've never used the M Press, but this looks to be primarily a chamber-to-chamber issue - and those are not easily fixed when going from larger to smaller. Honestly, save yourself a lot of headaches and just buy some virgin brass for the Tikka - use all this stuff in your Bergara.

 

[Frgood]

I think I will take your advice. I just tried chambering the rounds in the Bergara and it works. So my second favorite rifle will get the ammo. I was considering selling the Bergara as I do love my Tikka.

Is it safe to say (as a rule of thumb) that resizing cartridges at their base is too difficult to consider or, just, too much work to be worthwhile?

 

[spife7980]

Is it safe to say (as a rule of thumb) that resizing cartridges at their base is too difficult to consider or, just, too much work to be worthwhile?

You can, you do it every time you fill length size.
The issue is that when one chamber is large enough that the brass springs back more than the die can size it down leaving it too large for the smaller chamber.
Small base dies can work as it sizes the base more that’s a normal die would and could make it smaller before it springs back larger.

What are your actual measurements? Fired and sized, for both chambers

 

[Rocketmandb]

Is it safe to say (as a rule of thumb) that resizing cartridges at their base is too difficult to consider or, just, too much work to be worthwhile?

If you're not sizing at the base, eventually the brass gets to a point where it wont spring back enough after firing and you'll get extraction issues. This is why many people don't just neck size.

What is a pain, is trying to size down brass from a larger chamber to a smaller - UNLESS - you have a sizing die with a sufficiently small enough base.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Can you just shoot it in the other gun?

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

If you're not sizing at the base, eventually the brass gets to a point where it wont spring back enough after firing and you'll get extraction issues. This is why many people don't just neck size.

What is a pain, is trying to size down brass from a larger chamber to a smaller - UNLESS - you have a sizing die with a sufficiently small enough.

Just screw your barrel in or out to adjust chamber size.

 

[Rocketmandb]

Just screw your barrel in or out to adjust chamber size.

Add in some Loctite to keep it in place?

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Add in some Loctite to keep it in place?

Barrel shims.

 

[newguy2k3v2]

Second the recommendation to use a body die and just bump the shoulder a few thou on the loaded ammo. I believe you can also use a full length bushing die also if you take the decapper assembly and bushing out.

 

[Frgood]

You can, you do it every time you fill length size.
The issue is that when one chamber is large enough that the brass springs back more than the die can size it down leaving it too large for the smaller chamber.
Small base dies can work as it sizes the base more that’s a normal die would and could make it smaller before it springs back larger.

What are your actual measurements? Fired and sized, for both chambers
View attachment 7816188

C1 - One of my resized cartridges that has no primer. It was a cartridge I was using when setting up my dies.
C2 - is one of the built cartridges from the ill-fitting batch. I pulled bullet and powder from the round this morning.
C3 - is a factory Berger round that fire wonderfully from my tikka

The 'caliper' row is my working caliper. The ref caliper can be ignored as it was an alternate measuring device I used as a sanity check.

The rows of interest are 'Web Diameter' and 'Shoulder Dia.'. The .4705 is .002 above SAMMI spec and, most definitely, a forced fit in my Tikka.

Comparision	C1 - No primer	C2 W/Primer	C3 Berger Hyb Tgt.
Head Space
Caliper	1.5295​	1.5265​	1.5345​
Ref Caliper(Not at .4	1.5800​	1.5790​	1.5840​
Trim
Caliper	1.9085​	1.9095​	1.9095​
Ref Caliper	1.9075​	1.9192​	1.9090​
Web Diameter
Caliper	0.4705​	0.4705​	0.4685​
Ref Caliper	0.4690​	0.4500​	0.4680​
Shoulder Dia.
Caliper	0.4635​	0.4615​	0.4685​
Ref Caliper	0.4630​	0.4610​	0.4605​

I'm pretty sure this is my first culprit. I will forego the others as I've got that sorted out. BTW, These were all set with a Redding FLS bushing die with the decapper removed.

Here are my mistakes as I can best recall.
1. I did not think to check the case diameter. when setting the die up.
2. I did not spot check as I was resizing (even for headspace) despite the <$#%> die block working loose every few rounds.
3. I did not check the case diameter at all. I dropped them into the case gage but, I did not consider my rifle versus the generic spec.

I don't think the shell holder is any consideration as the oversize runs .410 from the bottom of the case and based on today's conversation, it is not a factor.

Side note - I just grabbed some gages (gauges?) and checked the first 1/2 inch of my:
Forster FLS-Z die : .465
Redding Competition Series Die : .472

Just ran one case through the Forster and the result was .4700. Does that mean I had .005 spring back and does that sound reasonable?

 

[FLIGHT762]

How are you measuring your shoulder bump? Are you using a comparator or some type of gauge to get a good, shoulder bump number?

I shoot two bolt 308 rifles. One has a slightly tighter chamber than the other. I can set my shoulder bump to fit the tighter gun and the ammo will fit into either gun. The other gun pushes the shoulder out .001"-.002" longer than the tighter gun.

I do have a Redding S/B Body Die that I can use if needed. I've used it on loaded ammo with no issues.

The only time I really needed the S/B die was on a Steyr SSG 69 that had a very tight chamber. It wouldn't chamber any fired brass that had a case web size of over .469". The Redding S/B die worked. I had two RCBS S/B dies I tried ,but didn't work, wouldn't get the web smaller than .469". I called Redding, the Tech said their S/B body die could do it.

I bought the die and it worked perfectly. I use it when needed with a set of Redding Competition shell holders to adjust shoulder bump, depending on the brass I'm using.

**EDIT** I see you're using a F/L Redding bushing die. You can take all of the guts out and use it as a body die on loaded ammo. It will work just like a body die with all of the inner parts removed.

 

[Frgood]

I honestly started the day with what I thought was just a single simple question. Based on the responses, I don't even know enough to know what question to ask. I'm not even trying to get match rounds ..., yet. Just trying to get basic function. I've done thousands of pistol rounds for competition which seem a breeze compared to this. lol

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

What case guage are you using?

 

[Frgood]

What case guage are you using?

Wilson

 

[newguy2k3v2]

It sounds like you should buy a Hornady headspace comparator kit or the equivalent. It lets you measure the length from the base to a consistent location on the shoulder so you can accurately measure you’re fired brass and then set your dies so your resized cases fit.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Wilson

You might want to double check those Wilson are typically a min/max length and headspace For fired cases. it's not a actual chamber ammo checker like a lyman.

 

[Frgood]

[Update]
New Lapua brass arrived yesterday and those measurements completely align with the original factory Berger ammunition. I now, have a better understanding of what I might be dealing with. I also found that the Forster Full Length sizing die reduces my cartridge diameter to a size that fits into this Tikka's chamber. Albeit it is very close.

My guess, and If offer it here to you experienced folk, is that I have gotten very close to the true chamber diameter. the difference between a tight and loose closing of the bolt is within in .005 at the webbing* (base of the cartridge). Does this sound reasonable or, am I overthinking this?

If the cartridge is resized to ~.4705 then, bolt close is too tight. In contrast, if the cartridge is resized to less than .4700 then the bolt close slips easily. The factory ammo and the New Lapua brass are .4685 out of the box. Hence, it loads easily.

So my conclusion is that I should use the Forster FLS die to resize? If so I can move onto neck tension. This theory will get tested later this afternoon after house chores are done.

 

[Sheldon N]

My guess, and If offer it here to you experienced folk, is that I have gotten very close to the true chamber diameter. the difference between a tight and loose closing of the bolt is within in .005 at the webbing* (base of the cartridge). Does this sound reasonable or, am I overthinking this?

Generally, yes. But it's not a situation where you are just trying to "make it fit". You need a bit of extra clearance so that after firing the brass springs back and allows the piece of brass to be extracted without undue effort. I've found that requires at least 0.0005 of base sizing and that closer to 0.001 of base sizing is preferred. If you don't get enough sizing, the brass will chamber easily but gets a bit stuck and will "pop out" when you put a bit of effort into opening the bolt after firing.

There's an important distinction to keep in mind here. You can't control base sizing by screwing your die in/out. Adjusting the sizing die is only for the purpose of controlling headspace - the length measurement from the base of the case to the angled shoulder. As recommended above, a tool like the Hornady comparator gauges are the perfect choice for measuring the headspace dimension. Your target for headspace should be to size the brass until it's about 0.002 shorter than a piece of fired brass from your rifle, which should also correspond with the point at which it chambers easily in your rifle (ignoring base diameter).

The base diameter is controlled only by changing sizing dies. Not all dies are machined to the same internal diameter and there are also "small base" dies which are intentionally machined to a noticeably tighter diameter. As you've discovered, your Forster die is a bit tighter and is sizing the base of the brass more than your other die.

 

[Frgood]

@Sheldon N Thank you for taking the time for your explanation. I realize it can be difficult communicating so much information in this anonymous vacuum. While I am trying to reduce some of the cost (time and money) associated with this learning a new skill, I am starting to feel the mental pinch of basic rifle reloading.
I am grateful for your explanation as it verifies my core understanding, corrects some of my thoughts, and teaches new information. I was definitely trying to do too many things at the same time and these past two months have been a harsh lesson. So, for now, I'm only going to focus on the 200 rounds of primed brass and try to get back to a proper starting point. I think trying to work on ladders, optimization, etc. will be later. The good news is I have a safe charge weight and I will proceed as If I am simply fireforming this brass. That will provide a constant starting point to go forward.

I fear by the time I have a reliably understanding, it'll be time for a new barrel and whatever that entails. But let's leave that for the future. lol

 

[bax]

Generally, yes. But it's not a situation where you are just trying to "make it fit". You need a bit of extra clearance so that after firing the brass springs back and allows the piece of brass to be extracted without undue effort. I've found that requires at least 0.0005 of base sizing and that closer to 0.001 of base sizing is preferred. If you don't get enough sizing, the brass will chamber easily but gets a bit stuck and will "pop out" when you put a bit of effort into opening the bolt after firing.

There's an important distinction to keep in mind here. You can't control base sizing by screwing your die in/out. Adjusting the sizing die is only for the purpose of controlling headspace - the length measurement from the base of the case to the angled shoulder. As recommended above, a tool like the Hornady comparator gauges are the perfect choice for measuring the headspace dimension. Your target for headspace should be to size the brass until it's about 0.002 shorter than a piece of fired brass from your rifle, which should also correspond with the point at which it chambers easily in your rifle (ignoring base diameter).

The base diameter is controlled only by changing sizing dies. Not all dies are machined to the same internal diameter and there are also "small base" dies which are intentionally machined to a noticeably tighter diameter. As you've discovered, your Forster die is a bit tighter and is sizing the base of the brass more than your other die.

Some additional detail on the Hornady comparator devices. I am working with a 300 PRC with a mostly SAAMI chamber - throat is 0.015 longer than SAAMI. The datum diameter is .420 so I attached the .420 body to my caliper and checked caliper zero. 2.003. According to the SAAMI print, the case base to datum measurement is between 2.200 and 2.210. I picked up a piece of brass and measured it with the caliber and Hornady gauge. Before sizing the measurement was 2.205. I resized the brass and checked. The brass length is now 2.204 or .004 above minimum.

I previously disassembled my bolt so I just have a bolt body, no firing pin or ejector. With no brass in the chamber, the bolt handle moves through a 90-degree arc. With that piece of brass in the gun, the bolt handle moves about 20 degrees before I am compressing the brass. I removed the brass from the gun, adjust the die to be just a little bit shorter, and lube and resize. New caliper measurement is 2.203 - .001 shorter. Try it in the gun - the bolt now moves about 80-degrees before compressing the brass. Using those tools I want to size the brass until it is 2.203. 2.202 would be okay. 2.204 is too long.

By the way, I torque the full length die into the press - 70 inch pounds with a crowfoot. It isn't much torque but I think it makes the dimensions repeatable.

 

[Sheldon N]

Some additional detail on the Hornady comparator devices. I am working with a 300 PRC with a mostly SAAMI chamber - throat is 0.015 longer than SAAMI. The datum diameter is .420 so I attached the .420 body to my caliper and checked caliper zero. 2.003. According to the SAAMI print, the case base to datum measurement is between 2.200 and 2.210. I picked up a piece of brass and measured it with the caliber and Hornady gauge. Before sizing the measurement was 2.205. I resized the brass and checked. The brass length is now 2.204 or .004 above minimum.

The Hornady comparators are not meant to be used in reference to a SAAMI spec, they aren't that precise and two different comparators may not even match each other on the same piece of brass. What they are good for is comparative measurement, ie before/after sizing and consistent sizing within your own processes.

I previously disassembled my bolt so I just have a bolt body, no firing pin or ejector. With no brass in the chamber, the bolt handle moves through a 90-degree arc. With that piece of brass in the gun, the bolt handle moves about 20 degrees before I am compressing the brass. I removed the brass from the gun, adjust the die to be just a little bit shorter, and lube and resize. New caliper measurement is 2.203 - .001 shorter. Try it in the gun - the bolt now moves about 80-degrees before compressing the brass. Using those tools I want to size the brass until it is 2.203. 2.202 would be okay. 2.204 is too long.

Bolt disassembly is a great way to double check sizing. As you've discovered, your brass easily chambers when the shoulder is bumped back 0.002 to 0.003 from a piece of fired brass. In your case that's 2.205 (fired) down to 2.202 or 2.203.

By the way, I torque the full length die into the press - 70 inch pounds with a crowfoot. It isn't much torque but I think it makes the dimensions repeatable.

Torquing the die into the press is not the correct procedure. It has nothing to do with how tight you make the die into the press and shellholder, the thing that matters is how far down the die is screwed. Start with your fired piece of brass, measure and size as you slowly tighten the die down into the press until you get the 0.002 to 0.003 shoulder bump number above. Doesn't matter how tight that is in the press, it might be compressing the shell holder a bunch or it might only be making light contact. Tighten up the lock ring once you've got the final number correct.

 

[FLIGHT762]

^^^What he said.^^^ The Hornady tool is a comparator, not a headspace gauge that will read off of SAAMI specs. If you want a gauge type of tool, the RCBS Precision Mic and the Whidden case gauge index off of SAAMI minimum.

The Hornady comparator works perfectly for taking your fired brass, measuring the length of the shoulder and then setting up you resizing die to shorten that length by .002"-.003". That is really all you need.

The RCBS and the Whidden are a bit more expensive and they are cartridge specific. The nice thing about the Hornady type of comparator is the $45.00 set can measure shoulder datum lengths for dozens of cartridges.

I do have a couple of the RCBS Precision mics that I bought at an Estate sale for a very good price. I also use the Hornady set.

I was curious as to what the numbers are using the Hornady comparator on a "GO" headspace gauge. I have a Gunsmith friend that let me bring my Hornady set and my caliper and measured off of his 223, 308 and 30/06 Go gauges. The numbers were off anywhere from .008" to .019" from the SAAMI number. This was because of the chamfer on the edge of the Hornady insert.

I happened to have 2 of the .400" Hornady inserts. One measured .011" shorter and the other measured .019" shorter than the SAAMI 1.630" Go gauge number.

 

[Baron23]

^^^What he said.^^^ The Hornady tool is a comparator, not a headspace gauge that will read off of SAAMI specs. If you want a gauge type of tool, the RCBS Precision Mic and the Whidden case gauge index off of SAAMI minimum.

The Hornady comparator works perfectly for taking your fired brass, measuring the length of the shoulder and then setting up you resizing die to shorten that length by .002"-.003". That is really all you need.

The RCBS and the Whidden are a bit more expensive and they are cartridge specific. The nice thing about the Hornady type of comparator is the $45.00 set can measure shoulder datum lengths for dozens of cartridges.

I do have a couple of the RCBS Precision mics that I bought at an Estate sale for a very good price. I also use the Hornady set.

I was curious as to what the numbers are using the Hornady comparator on a "GO" headspace gauge. I have a Gunsmith friend that let me bring my Hornady set and my caliper and measured off of his 223, 308 and 30/06 Go gauges. The numbers were off anywhere from .008" to .019" from the SAAMI number. This was because of the chamfer on the edge of the Hornady insert.

I happened to have 2 of the .400" Hornady inserts. One measured .011" shorter and the other measured .019" shorter than the SAAMI 1.630" Go gauge number.

I have the Widden case gauge and find it is easy to use (but must be used consistently) and use it to get a comparative measurement...after firing and then after resizing.

Worth the money IMO.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Wish they would have cut a hole out for primers. I find my rcbs more consistent on fired cases. Same reason I don't use a caliper base.

 

[Frgood]

Well, it is Monday after a mildly frustrating weekend.

I was feeling good with the Forster die getting all 250 rounds fitting nicely in the chamber. Blot just drops and the world seemed good once more. The headspace is more than a precision shooter wants, but I not shooting for score. I'm just trying to get all the rounds fireformed.

As I sat back feeling good about myself, I went to check the neck size. First, length. No big deal a little trim and all will be good. Neck sizing?

WHAT THE double toothpicks. every one is .252!!!! I just walked away and watched BBC World News to improve my humor. I sent an email to Forster Products asking what I 'm doing wrong as I am just tired. I know I messed up. But, I don't know If I am compounding my issues, learning a really good lesson, or the universe is just testing my patience. I think writing an email will give me time to mentally reset.

The neck mandrel and die will not ship for a couple of weeks. So 've got time to calm down.

 

[FLIGHT762]

WTF is .252"? Your post makes no sense. You have a 25 cal. 6.5 CM ?

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

So you don't bother to make sure the first one is good before doing all 250?

 

[Frgood]

So you don't bother to make sure the first one is good before doing all 250?

Correct when tunnel-vision has taken hold. I was so relieved that the cartridge diameter and headspace were good, I failed to reconsider the neck.
This is why it is a lesson hard learned.

 

[Frgood]

WTF is .252"? Your post makes no sense. You have a 25 cal. 6.5 CM ?

Hence the frustration.

Although I am working on a possible theory on what happened and will post after my conversation with Forster.

 

[FLIGHT762]

Re-check & re- zero your calipers and have a drink.

 

[bax]

The Hornady comparators are not meant to be used in reference to a SAAMI spec, they aren't that precise and two different comparators may not even match each other on the same piece of brass. What they are good for is comparative measurement, ie before/after sizing and consistent sizing within your own processes.



Bolt disassembly is a great way to double check sizing. As you've discovered, your brass easily chambers when the shoulder is bumped back 0.002 to 0.003 from a piece of fired brass. In your case that's 2.205 (fired) down to 2.202 or 2.203.



Torquing the die into the press is not the correct procedure. It has nothing to do with how tight you make the die into the press and shellholder, the thing that matters is how far down the die is screwed. Start with your fired piece of brass, measure and size as you slowly tighten the die down into the press until you get the 0.002 to 0.003 shoulder bump number above. Doesn't matter how tight that is in the press, it might be compressing the shell holder a bunch or it might only be making light contact. Tighten up the lock ring once you've got the final number correct.

Hi Sheldon,

We may disagree on torque. I am not seating the die against the shellholder. I have the lock ring fixed in place. I torque using a hex-sided lock ring. Torque is to insure that the distance between the shellholder base (where the brass pushes against) and the .420 line in the sizing die is the same every time.

For what its worth, JGS made the headspace gauge to minimum chamber when they made the reamer. The guys who cut the chamber used my headspace gauge plus a small piece of copier paper to set the headspace. You may notice that copier paper is about 0.003 which is why the headspace in my chamber is 3 thou longer than minimum. I used the headspace gauge to get the initial die setting. After doing the initial set with the headspace gauge, I adjusted the lock ring until I have the brass size I want, torquing after each adjustment. The next time I resize brass, I spin the die into the press, torque to 70 inch pounds, size a piece and check it against my chamber (using the disassembled bolt) and using the Horn comparator. If the comparator says 2.203 and the chamber agrees, then I can check the rest of the cases using only the comparator. If they don't agree then something is wrong and I figure that out.

I have used this process with other chambers and calibers. I note that when brass needs to be annealed, the brass is less elastic and the sizing die setting has to change or I need to anneal. This 300 PRC brass is new so I will keep checking the setting.

 

[Sheldon N]

Hi Sheldon,

We may disagree on torque. I am not seating the die against the shellholder. I have the lock ring fixed in place. I torque using a hex-sided lock ring. Torque is to insure that the distance between the shellholder base (where the brass pushes against) and the .420 line in the sizing die is the same every time.

For what its worth, JGS made the headspace gauge to minimum chamber when they made the reamer. The guys who cut the chamber used my headspace gauge plus a small piece of copier paper to set the headspace. You may notice that copier paper is about 0.003 which is why the headspace in my chamber is 3 thou longer than minimum. I used the headspace gauge to get the initial die setting. After doing the initial set with the headspace gauge, I adjusted the lock ring until I have the brass size I want, torquing after each adjustment. The next time I resize brass, I spin the die into the press, torque to 70 inch pounds, size a piece and check it against my chamber (using the disassembled bolt) and using the Horn comparator. If the comparator says 2.203 and the chamber agrees, then I can check the rest of the cases using only the comparator. If they don't agree then something is wrong and I figure that out.

I have used this process with other chambers and calibers. I note that when brass needs to be annealed, the brass is less elastic and the sizing die setting has to change or I need to anneal. This 300 PRC brass is new so I will keep checking the setting.

If your process is working for you, then no need to listen to me.

My comments are primarily for the benefit of new reloaders who are learning and need to filter out what advice they should be following. To them I would say 1) Torque spec on the die or lock ring means nothing, as long as the die isn't working itself loose. 2) Don't use a headspace gauge and pieces of paper to set your sizing die. It should be referenced against how much you push the brass back from the chamber dimension - indicated from either a piece of fired brass or physically checking in your chamber with a stripped bolt to find the point where you have sufficient clearance for an easy bolt close.

 

[smoothy8500]

WTF is .252"? Your post makes no sense. You have a 25 cal. 6.5 CM ?

 

[bax]

If your process is working for you, then no need to listen to me.

My comments are primarily for the benefit of new reloaders who are learning and need to filter out what advice they should be following. To them I would say 1) Torque spec on the die or lock ring means nothing, as long as the die isn't working itself loose. 2) Don't use a headspace gauge and pieces of paper to set your sizing die. It should be referenced against how much you push the brass back from the chamber dimension - indicated from either a piece of fired brass or physically checking in your chamber with a stripped bolt to find the point where you have sufficient clearance for an easy bolt close.

This forum is for people who reload. Some are just starting. Some (like me) have been doing it for longer - I started to reload in 1970. This forum is not divided into beginner and experienced groups - both are present and both are welcome. You choose to make comments directed to those who are just getting started. That is a valuable and respectable position but it is not the only position. I do not choose to limit my comments only to beginners and I think that people, including beginner people, are pretty smart.

You said, "Torque spec on the die or lock ring means nothing". Your statement is true for some presses and die setup procedures but not for others and time has value. I can set up my green press and start sizing brass that exactly fits my chamber in less than a minute. I created a setup that does that for me and that setup depends on torque. I can adjust brass base-to-shoulder length in 0.001 increments, I have repeatable results, and I am not depending on the die maker and shellholder maker to hold zero tolerances.

My setup isn't for everyone - your mileage may vary - but the general statement that "torque ... means nothing" is wrong. In my setup, torque is the factor that keeps base-to-shoulder dimensions consistent and lets me quickly get to work confident that my brass will be the right size every time. There are other die setup procedures. In my experience they take longer and/or they sacrifice repeatability (either session to session or case to case), may require a different press, and they are no safer.

A comment on the Hornady comparator bodies -- I agree that Hornady says they are for comparison. In my case the .420 body exactly matches my reamer, headspace gauge, chamber, and sizing die. No one should expect or count on such serendipity but since I have it and I verified it, I plan to use it.

 

[supercorndogs]

Just screw your barrel in or out to adjust chamber size.

You can do that if you have a barrel nut set up. Its easier just to size the ammo though if you have a body or bushing die....

 

[Frgood]

WTF is .252"? Your post makes no sense. You have a 25 cal. 6.5 CM ?

Neck tension. The neck diameter was far smaller than ~.262. Hence the frustration two weeks ago.


Everything is now all sorted out and hopefully I'll get to the range this weekend for some practice. I ended up getting a mandrel and every round chambers nicely.

Until the next batch. heh heh