Im just starting out!!

K

knapja49

Private
Minuteman
Aug 1, 2012
11
0
37
buffalo, ny
#1
Hey Guys,
My best friend and I have just recently started to get into long distance shooting together. However, there is a one big problem,... we live in western N.Y., and I think we are the only two people who care about shooting over a 100yrds. in the whole area. Needless to say we have yet to find a close by long distane range to join, more than anything we want to join a club to meet some experienced shooters willing to share some knowledge. With no one to guide us we dont even know if were going about this all wrong or not. That being said this site seems like the kind of place i could talk with someone in the know!! We both have Rem. 700 sps v in .308 equiped with bipods and the factory 4x12 crappy optic it came with. One thing we do know is optics are extremely important but thats about the extent of our knowledge on scopes. Any and all information reguarding scopes, ammo, shooting techniques, ect.. will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks guys, -Jake
 
#3
Re: Im just starting out!!

As far as the ammunition, go with the 175 gr match. I run Applied Ballistics 175 Tac OTM. The 175's will run nicely out of a 1:12 twist or faster and they do really well in the wind.

Optics; since you really don't have any long distances to shoot at, the scope it came with will be okay until you get your technique down. But, once you do, you may want to step into an optic that offered you a few more options. Like, different reticle, more internal adjustment, larger main tube, graduated turrets, larger objective. The rings and base are very important as well.

Companies like Seekins, NightForce, Badger, U.S. Optics all offer great rings and bases.

The SPS doesn't come with the greatest stock.
As you progress you may find that you want to change the stock. This will help you overall accuracy. By going with a HS Precision, Bell & Carlson, McMillan etc and bedding the action. will improve your accuracy. A good trigger job or an aftermarket trigger will also go along ways in helping your shooting.

As far as technique, well to be honest you really need to get on YouTube. I believe Snipers Hide has some great videos on shooting form as well. The best thing you can do, which I understand there is not that much of, is to get with someone who already shoots long range. It is hard for someone to get on here and try to tell you how to do it. It is kind one of those things that you have to be shown how to do it. A good position to start out with is the Prone, it is the most accurate of the positions.

I'll be honest with you. Any one of the members here could write a novel on answering the questions you have asked. A good YouTube channel to look at is LoneWolf USMC. He's got some fairly decent videos up there that may help you out. But keep it quiet, he already has a big head. LOL JK

Ammunition: Good match grade ammo in 168gr - 185gr I prefer the 175's

Ammo Brands: Federal Sierra Match King, Hornady A-Max, Applied Ballistics, Cor-Bon, Lapua, there are many.

Stocks Replacement: Bell & Carlson, HS-Precision, McMillan, Manners, Accuracy International are all great stocks. The latter are a bit higher in price.

Triggers: Jewel, Timney, Rifle Basix, or a good trigger job set to around 2.5 - 2.75 lbs.

Optics Manufacturers: SWFA Super Sniper, Vortex, Leupold, Sightron, Weaver, and if your budget allows NightForce, U.S. Optics, Schmidt & Bender

Rings & Bases: Seekins, Badger Ordinance, NightForce, U.S. Optics. Don't cut any corners here.

I haven't even began to scratch the surface of what you are going to want to know. But this will get you started and along with the other folks that jump in here, it will keep you busy for a few days or so...

Welcome to the Hide. If there is anything you are confused about or just have a question, don't hesitate to ask. The only dumb question is the question that wasn't asked.

Welcome to the art of Long Range Shooting.

Surgeon
 
#4
Re: Im just starting out!!

thanks for all the suggestions and tips. like u said, nothing beats having an experienced teacher. i have coached a lot of people in shooting the bow and I've seen first hand how much harder it can be learning to do it right when u have already taught yourself to do it wrong... that's what I'm most afraid of. I have a feeling the bow and shooting distance are similar when it comes to technique and being consistant with it. But thanks again man were going to let some led fly in the next few days so ill keep you posted.
 
#6
Re: Im just starting out!!

Here is a post from another website where the OP has compiled a list of F-Class matches at various locations across the US (see Excel attachment at bottom of 1st post). These ranges typically have longer shooting distances available than 100 yd due to the nature of F-Class, so you might find one listed close enough to you to be of use. Good luck!

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3787129.0
 
#9
Re: Im just starting out!!

If your only going to shoot 100 yards for now (until you're able to find a longer range), I recommend the Sierra's 168's. They are very accurate all the way to mid-range (600 yards) and might save you money depending where you get your supplies.
 
#10
Re: Im just starting out!!

When you look for a shooting location, the ideal orientation is shooting from South to North. That way your targets are not in shadow. Be sure that misses don't get lost in the distance.

The 168gr Match bullets are very good out of the .308 for out to about 800yd, so unless you are definitely shooting beyond that, they will do nicely. Beyond that, the 175's are quite good out to 1000. For out to 300-500yd, 155gr (Palma) match ammo is excellent. Although intended for out to 1000yd, the Palma Match ammo is also intended to be used in specialized rifles which are characterized by especially long barrels using longer rifling twists.

Until you get really good, less expensive match ammo, like the Prvi-Partizan, works well enough. I use it most of the time in my 5.56 Varmint AR (Stag Model 6), except for when I'm shooting handloads in actual matches. If you don't handload, consider it, meanwhile I'll put in a plug for Southwest Ammo, most here who have tied it like its cost and capability. It's a valid choice for more demanding applications than practice.

To get good, the best training tool is a relatively uncomplicated .22LR bolt gun. Use it for most fo your training. It's inexpensive to shoot, the ammo is reliable and inherently accurate, and every shot you do with a .22LR saves the bore on your centerfire rifle. That's a very important consideration.

You can learn much about the wind at 50-150yd with a .22LR that you'd need to shoot at 500-800yd with a centerfire to duplicate.

Shoot comfortable.

If that means prone, use a comfortable mat. I use movers' furniture blankets; cheap, effective, expendible.

A bench should be rigid, rigid, rigid. Wobbly is worse than nothing. This is one implement where mass can be useful.

Take turns observing each other, and be prepared to offer and accept criticism. It will help you both. Understand there are alternate approaches to successful shooting technique. Be open to those alternatives. There will be times when that favors some, and times that favor others. Don't be afraid to disagree, and don't let disagreement become divisive; dialogue can be very constructive if you keep it that way.

Greg
 
#11
Re: Im just starting out!!

Welcome to the world of Long Range shooting and welcome to the Hide
grin.gif
!

There is a wealth of information available for your reference on this site. There are also plenty of mostly helpful people who are usually ready to provide an opinion on any subject you wish to discuss.

A few suggestions are provided below.
1. Read at least 10 times more than you post.
2. Most questions you would like to ask have likely already been asked and answered at least 10 times (see #1 above).
3. Learn how to become proficient using the SEARCH function on this site.
4. Buy once, cry once. If you do not yet know exactly what this means and how it applies to shooting, you will learn.
5. Don't worry about buying a bunch of expensive gear right off the bat. Better to get out and use what you have, as you are learning about your abilities and prioritizing what you really NEED to spend your money on to improve your shooting performance and enjoyment.
6. Everyone has an opinion. Just remember, somebody else's opinion may or may not be right for you and your situation.
7. Only you have to live with the decisions you make about how to spend your money (see #6 above).
8. Learn to walk before you try to run.
9. Help others when you can and have some fun along the way. Remember, it's all about the journey not the destination!

Happy shooting...
cool.gif
 
#12
Re: Im just starting out!!

pay the fees on the main page to watch the videos lowlight has put together on here. A lot of good info. regardless of what everyone tells ya before you upgrade anything shoot a gun that has that upgrade on it to see if you like it as in chassis, stocks, triggers, etc.

don't rush into a hotrod round regardless of how much you read on here about the 6mm super short lapua creedmore short mag is the newest hottest shit out there, just shoot your 308 and enjoy it. i regularly shoot my 308's to 1200 yards with no issues, shoot that bitch till the barrel melts and then figure out what you want to do.

optics are the one thing where you get what you pay for, i'd rather see a 400 dollar rifle with a 3000 dollar scope then a 5000 dollar rifle with a 500 dollar scope.

read and consume all the knowledge you can, regardless of how much you think you know there is someone who has forgot more then you'll ever grasp.

and BE FUCKING HUMBLE!!! on sites like this you never know who you are talking to the ones you talk like they are amazing usually aren't and the ones who are humble and offer up pretty level headed advice usually know a thing or two.
 
#14
Re: Im just starting out!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">pay the fees on the main page to watch the videos lowlight has put together on here. A lot of good info. regardless of what everyone tells ya before you upgrade anything shoot a gun that has that upgrade on it to see if you like it as in chassis, stocks, triggers, etc.

don't rush into a hotrod round regardless of how much you read on here about the 6mm super short lapua creedmore short mag is the newest hottest shit out there, just shoot your 308 and enjoy it. i regularly shoot my 308's to 1200 yards with no issues, shoot that bitch till the barrel melts and then figure out what you want to do.

optics are the one thing where you get what you pay for, i'd rather see a 400 dollar rifle with a 3000 dollar scope then a 5000 dollar rifle with a 500 dollar scope.

read and consume all the knowledge you can, regardless of how much you think you know there is someone who has forgot more then you'll ever grasp.

and BE FUCKING HUMBLE!!! on sites like this you never know who you are talking to <span style="font-weight: bold"> the ones who talk like they are amazing usually aren't and the ones who are humble and offer up pretty level headed advice usually know a thing or two.</span> </div></div>

exactly. read alot on here and find a member in your aera to shoot with.tons of people can talk poo, but anyone who will come shoot with you and produce results....thats where the rubber meets the road.

im sure we got a solid member in your aera.change your title to

solid shooter/mentor needed in "your town" NY

that my draw out a no bs shooter to SHOW you what to do.
 
#15
Re: Im just starting out!!

once again thank you guys for all the excellent information. i learn something new each and every time i logon to this site. i am going to change my title right after writing this and would be absolutly thrilled if i could spend a little trigger time with a experienced marksman.
 
#16
Re: Im just starting out!!

every time my shooting partner and i take out the 700's we also bring our rugar 10-22's, while we haven't ever really considered them a training tool rather just a way to send some led down range without breaking the bank, they sure will be used in that manner now. of course there not bolt guns but is that really going to affect there usefullness as a trainging tool at those short distances? what im asking is, is it worth the cost of getting a bolt action if we already got the old 10-22?
 
#17
Re: Im just starting out!!

Well you sound a bit like me when I got into LR shooting. The best thing you can do is practice. Something you may want to look into is reloading you own ammo. .308 is by far probably one of the most reloaded rounds ever. Lots of components available for it. Get a basic single stage kit and just run with it. It will be far cheaper then shooting 20 rounds for 30 bucks(just a guess havent bought boxed ammo in several years). If you do go this route eventually I personally have owned Lee, and Hornady presses. The lee is good for pistol shooters imo and the Hornady has done me wonders with my precision shooting. Its just something to think about if you wanna get serious. Again practice is the only way to get better as well as asking alot of questions.
 
#18
Re: Im just starting out!!

These guys gave you awesome advice, and they won't steer you wrong. I'm in NY too, but on the southern end. If you guys are ever in my neck of the woods (Hudson Valley) hit me up, and I wing bring you guys to my range. We can go out to 200-300 yards.
 
#19
Re: Im just starting out!!

This takes place at 250yd a few miles SE of Watkins Glen every first Saturday, and again, two weeks later on Sunday. I know it's a haul from Buffalo (I go there periodically for VA Hospital appointments), but it's a lot of what you are talking about. Helping newguys is our specialty.

Do Mapquest for 'Odessa NY' for a general set of directions, and PM STP for more detail. He runs this lashup.

Greg
 
#20
Re: Im just starting out!!

my buddy and i are definitly interested and willing to take a few hour drive for some good shooting experience. could u just be a little more specific about what is taking place and when. im sorry i just had a little trouble understanding your post.
p.s. i just rebuilt an elevator in the V.A....small world
 
#21
Re: Im just starting out!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.K.700</div><div class="ubbcode-body">of course there not bolt guns but is that really going to affect there usefullness as a trainging tool at those short distances? what im asking is, is it worth the cost of getting a bolt action if we already got the old 10-22? </div></div>

No sense in buying a bolt action .22 unless you want one. Your using it to get better at trigger control, breathing cycle, blah blah. The biggest thing with 10-22's is it to easy to act like Rambo and empty the mag quick.
 
#22
Re: Im just starting out!!

FV250 is is a derivative form of local competition that borrows heavily from F Class.

It is shot at 250yd, on a club designed target that recreates most of the F Class degree of difficulty at the shorter distance. The "V" reference denotes it is fired on a target that has a 5 point max value per shot, and uses a "V" ring for tiebreaking, like the old style military targets.

There is a very similar club program, shot at 180yd, at the Springwater Club, closer to Buffalo, and scheduled on weekends that alternate with ours. Many of our shooters show up at both locations, and Springwater scores are often posted here, much like ours.

Our atmosphere is deliberately informal, and beyond scores being posted on our SH S3 forum, there is no formal recognition. We feel this establishes a much lower stress level and is more conductive to a learning experience. In essence, the program serves as a lower key intro to F Class.

The course of fire features 40 rounds for score, with unlimited sighters. There are two 30 minute stages with two targets each, ten rounds per target; with a break between these 20rd stages for barrels and shooters to cool off. Shooters are encouraged to bring enough extra rounds to allow a leisurely sighting effort before moving directly to score shooting, in each stage.

The 40 rounds, with a possible 5pts per round, allows for a possible perfect score of 200-40V. 200 points has been achieved several times, with scores of 190 or above being considered rather competitive. I do not believe anyone has ever gotten 40V.

Most folks shoot 223 or 308, with a fair number of 6BR and a few 30BR coming on recently. We see everything up to and inluding .338 Lapua Mags, including brakes. Semis shoot alongside bolt guns. Two classes, like F Class, are used for scoring breakdown, everyone shoots intermingled. There are usually at least two relays shooting their stages alternatively.

F T/R is restricted to 223/308 chamberings and must be fired from bipods.

Open Class has no chambering restrictions and can use any support.

There are no sights restrictions, shooters usually have variable scopes somewhere in the 6-24X range, and we do see some mirage on our range. Spotter scopes are commonly used.

We have an additional distinction that permits separate scoring for either class based on whether shooting is done prone or from avaialble wooden benches, allowing us older fogeys to forego the prone.

Matches are fired following our 9AM, first Saturday, Club meetings; with shooter registration starting at 10:00AM. Club membership is not required, and the match donation is $10. A second match each month is scheduled two weeks later, on a Sunday. to allow folks who work Saturdays to make at least one match a month.

We make a serious effort to accommodate, coach, and aid new shooters, and the unoffical club match format keeps the competition on a friendly and mutually helpful level. Stress is minimal and you will find shooters and equipment from all levels shooting alongside each other.

Average turnout is around a dozen or more, we shoot rain or shine (covered line), and we only stop our schedule once Winter's snows drive us from the range. There is a clubhouse with flush toilets inside. Youth and ladies often join our competition.

Greg
 
#23
Re: Im just starting out!!

This is exactly what we need. We will definitly be there next Sunday, if u have a phone number or a way to contact someone to get exact directions it would be greatly appreciated.
thanks again
 
#24
Re: Im just starting out!!

Just to preface, not real sure how good a marksman you are today, so...

Attend an Appleseed. Its inexpensive training on all the basics. For the money I don't know of a better program to train shooters on positional shooting. This will work great in conjunction with all the online turorials as a lot of the info is similar - just with Applesee you get personal attention to correct mistakes in your positions. After that, pay and attend a real long range shooting course
 
#25
Re: Im just starting out!!

I also recommend Appleseed.

Next Sunday is the 12th, and is not a 'Match Sunday'. The next expected 'Match Sunday' should be the 19th.

I do not announce matches, that's done around/about a week in advance by STP in the F Class Forum as an official Odessa FV250 Match Announcement.

To be safe, these announcement are the only reliable way of knowing when the next match will indeed take place.

So follow the F Class forum, look for the announcements, and get your info from <span style="font-style: italic">THE</span> reliable source.

My way of contacting STP is by Snipers' Hide Personal Messaging. Type in 'STP' in the User List lookup at the top of each forum page, and select the 'Send a Personal Message' option. He usually responds within a day or so.

If you wish to continue this dialogue, I suggest you begin a new post in the F class Forum.

Greg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
Long range "Old Fart" .... just joined up.
Replies
1
Views
52
BLEE
BLEE
Zigjib
Vector X - Just a quick review.
Replies
24
Views
3K
Mark23
Mark23
pangris
Point of diminishing returns for a 2-12 ish scope
Replies
14
Views
670
Tikkaguy
Tikkaguy
O
Novice Scope Recommendations
Replies
2
Views
120
gr8fuldoug
gr8fuldoug
S
Real World Sniper Challenge AAR
Replies
6
Views
506
308pirate
308pirate
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Merch
Alerts