Looking at buying barreled action and cost is the same for either. Deviant will accept AICS or AW mags. Impact will only accept AICS. Anything else separate these two? Deviant is nitrided, so they both seem super smooth on paper, both 2 lug, and 90 degree bolt throw I believe. Thoughts?
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Impact Precision or Deviant Tactical
- Thread starter Stoweit
- Start date
Impact will do the AW cut for you. I like my Impact for literally no down time to swap calibers
Hows the clearance with bolt knob and scope, I have only used 60 degree throw bolt, and the chances of laying my hands on one where I live is not good. Would buy through Altus.
I would go either Impact or Lone Peak. Several smiths are doing prefits for the Lone Peaks now. I just purchased a LP from Altus 2 weeks ago, and couldn't be happier with the product or the service. Additionally, I think LP's are cut for aw's.
What smiths are doing LP prefits now?
Also can the LP Fusion be ordered with AICS or does it have to be AW?
TS Customs to start with, but apparently there is a serial# starting point for prefits. Meaning your action has to be after a certain serial# before they will cut you a barrel w/o the action in hand. It's my understanding that AICS will run in AW cut actions.
Any action that is cut for an AW will (should) run an AICS. The Lonepeak will run AICS no problem.
"Over insertion" is typical of every aftermarket action on the planet with AICS. Basically, An AICS is a center feed so what stops the mag from going up too high is the feed lips hitting the bolt unless the stock or chassis does not have a through slot for the mag catch but then you have inter-mag compatibility issues. An AW magazine is a full double stack so the feed lips rest on the receiver, not the bolt. It is a mag thing. Not an action thing.
Edit to clarify: So I should clarify that the front of the mags will reference off the receiver so when the bolt is open, the mags don't go through. However, the mags will deflect in the back upwards and contact the bolt for an AICS. If you run the magwell tolerances tighter to reduce this affect, the mag well will not be compatible with all brands of mags.
Edit to clarify: So I should clarify that the front of the mags will reference off the receiver so when the bolt is open, the mags don't go through. However, the mags will deflect in the back upwards and contact the bolt for an AICS. If you run the magwell tolerances tighter to reduce this affect, the mag well will not be compatible with all brands of mags.
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Theres a reason I ordered an aics TL3. No plans to every run AW. No issues with upwards pressure on my origin
Nope the mag latch height is the same.
There is no reason not to have an AW cut in my opinion. The is absolutely no downside to have the ability to run both. The AW mags do NOT require a different height mag latch than an AICS. All mags whether it is AICS or AW or MDT or Accurate or whoever, all vary slightly as they have no dimensional standard amongst them all. (it is horrible). If you ever have anyone say that an AW requires a different height latch, they simply had a mag that was of a different spec. I run AW and AICS in my personal rifles all the time and have never had any issues. (Except with my Impact, I don't run AW in the Impact because I can't lol) Reliability factors are generally cartridge-based not mag based. So many of these BR guys have issues and find a mag that works then later it doesn't. It is a cartridge issue.
There is no reason not to have an AW cut in my opinion. The is absolutely no downside to have the ability to run both. The AW mags do NOT require a different height mag latch than an AICS. All mags whether it is AICS or AW or MDT or Accurate or whoever, all vary slightly as they have no dimensional standard amongst them all. (it is horrible). If you ever have anyone say that an AW requires a different height latch, they simply had a mag that was of a different spec. I run AW and AICS in my personal rifles all the time and have never had any issues. (Except with my Impact, I don't run AW in the Impact because I can't lol) Reliability factors are generally cartridge-based not mag based. So many of these BR guys have issues and find a mag that works then later it doesn't. It is a cartridge issue.
I liked them both. My defiance was DLC coated so it was slick but the tolerances were tighter. The impact is a very small amount looser but it’s quicker to run.
The bolt throw on the impact feels lighter as well.
They are both great actions and if you run the defiance and learn how to throw the bolt it can be very fast and smooth. The impact makes you look better then you really are and it doesn’t take much practice to throw the bolt fast.
Over all I jumped in the impact and don’t regret it at all.
The bolt throw on the impact feels lighter as well.
They are both great actions and if you run the defiance and learn how to throw the bolt it can be very fast and smooth. The impact makes you look better then you really are and it doesn’t take much practice to throw the bolt fast.
Over all I jumped in the impact and don’t regret it at all.
I also got the same set up few deviant and revel dlc and also elite crf model.and i agree
The dlc deviant smoth but tolerance is also noticeable tighter..so for application like prs i would pick my impact but for slow shooting for my f class and long range i got both on deviant
What are you looking to do with the action?
I replaced the Defiance on my PRS rig with a Mausingfield and couldn't be happier. Too tight of tolerances on my Defiance, and the cerakote certainly didn't help. In all fairness it was an older Defiance - a Rebel/Gap Templar V1, so probably not fair to compare to the new Defiance Deviant actions, though I've seen people with Deviants struggle in conditions due to the tight tolerances where actions such as the Surgeons, etc. kept chugging along with no issues. @Terry Cross builds his field guns on Defiance Deviants and has good luck with them, but I'm not sure if he is ordering them to a different spec than what is offered off the shelf.
My ELR gun, a .300NM, has a new IonBonded and polished Defiance Deviant, and I love it. But as an ELR gun, it's not exposed to adverse conditions for lengths of times that my PRS rig is, but so far haven't had any issues with that. If you are not running it in shitty PRS conditions, they are great actions. With the IonBond surface finish and the polishing, it certainly feels really slick and the manufactering quality is great. A bonus about Defiant actions is all the different options you have if you want to make a custom order - to my knowledge no other action manufacturer has as many custom options as Defiance.
If you want something to be a little more tolerant of adverse conditions for extended periods, and want a push feed action, my personal recommendation would be a LP Fuzion and then an Impact. Otherwise, the Defiance is an excellent choice.
I replaced the Defiance on my PRS rig with a Mausingfield and couldn't be happier. Too tight of tolerances on my Defiance, and the cerakote certainly didn't help. In all fairness it was an older Defiance - a Rebel/Gap Templar V1, so probably not fair to compare to the new Defiance Deviant actions, though I've seen people with Deviants struggle in conditions due to the tight tolerances where actions such as the Surgeons, etc. kept chugging along with no issues. @Terry Cross builds his field guns on Defiance Deviants and has good luck with them, but I'm not sure if he is ordering them to a different spec than what is offered off the shelf.
My ELR gun, a .300NM, has a new IonBonded and polished Defiance Deviant, and I love it. But as an ELR gun, it's not exposed to adverse conditions for lengths of times that my PRS rig is, but so far haven't had any issues with that. If you are not running it in shitty PRS conditions, they are great actions. With the IonBond surface finish and the polishing, it certainly feels really slick and the manufactering quality is great. A bonus about Defiant actions is all the different options you have if you want to make a custom order - to my knowledge no other action manufacturer has as many custom options as Defiance.
If you want something to be a little more tolerant of adverse conditions for extended periods, and want a push feed action, my personal recommendation would be a LP Fuzion and then an Impact. Otherwise, the Defiance is an excellent choice.
If you go AW make sure you get your smith to notch the action or you are likely to have feed issues. Just because an action has an AW cut doesn’t mean it will work flawlessly with AW mags.
the AW vs AICS info in here is.....interesting to say the least lol
an impact cut for AWs will work with both AWs and AICS...ive got 2 em done like this
the AICS mags can BARELY rub the bolt if i push hard enough, but it doesnt impede anything...some light filing on the mag lips clears it up
you will likely have to extend the mag catch on a chassis/DBM or mill the bottom metal inlet on a stock deeper so that the AW mag will ride as tight to the action as possible to prevent any bolt skipping over the rounds....how you get the mag there is your choice, but if you just put parts together and it worked with no mods, you just got lucky...ive had an MPA, AT chassis, and 2 foundations that all needed adjusting (MPA and AT mag catches were extended, Foundations were cut deeper)...ive also helped people out with a few others...they would feed about 70% of the time out of the box just bolted together
when theyre set up right rounds coming from either mag should be effortless
an impact cut for AWs will work with both AWs and AICS...ive got 2 em done like this
the AICS mags can BARELY rub the bolt if i push hard enough, but it doesnt impede anything...some light filing on the mag lips clears it up
you will likely have to extend the mag catch on a chassis/DBM or mill the bottom metal inlet on a stock deeper so that the AW mag will ride as tight to the action as possible to prevent any bolt skipping over the rounds....how you get the mag there is your choice, but if you just put parts together and it worked with no mods, you just got lucky...ive had an MPA, AT chassis, and 2 foundations that all needed adjusting (MPA and AT mag catches were extended, Foundations were cut deeper)...ive also helped people out with a few others...they would feed about 70% of the time out of the box just bolted together
when theyre set up right rounds coming from either mag should be effortless
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I have been using Defiance supplied actions for some time now. My bolt body diameters are slightly smaller than normally standard on those actions. I.H.I. IonBond on everything that moves and CeraKote H on everything that doesn't has had good results.
Impact and Defiance are both excellent actions. Tolerances on both are probably close to equal. Clearances are different.
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I can cycle my rifles with one finger too if the fire control group/firing pin isn't installed lol...
I wasn’t testing the firing pin smart guy...good job missin the point of the video
some of my buddies thought they could too...they learned otherwise once they tried it
I'd go with the Defiance Deviant it's a no-brainer…
But what would I know
Mike R.
But what would I know
Mike R.
I was just about ready to say the same thing. The rest of Morgan's post is spot on with my experience also, the only thing I can add is that if you have an action with a .750 diameter bolt, feed lip interference does become a problem. Also, I know of at least 1 manufacturer that is leaving material at the front and rear to stop mags from over inserting.
Defiance.
Sure they aren't the new kid on the block but they just plain work. I ordered mine nitrided and it's been awesome.
Sure they aren't the new kid on the block but they just plain work. I ordered mine nitrided and it's been awesome.
Defiance.
Sure they aren't the new kid on the block but they just plain work.
Most of the top smiths are using them and have had fantastic results
Terry Cross / KMW
Mark Gordon / Short Action Custom
George Gardner / GAP
Need I say more ? I don’t think so Johnny
Mike R.
Sure they aren't the new kid on the block but they just plain work.
Most of the top smiths are using them and have had fantastic results
Terry Cross / KMW
Mark Gordon / Short Action Custom
George Gardner / GAP
Need I say more ? I don’t think so Johnny
Mike R.
I guess I wasn't clear on my recommendation of a Defiance action?
I know lots of very well known gunsmiths use them, that's one of many reasons I went with them over any of the others out there.
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