In search of soul mate

[Dugan324]

Hello all. First poster here. I have been listening to the podcasts for some time now and just got the fever. Longtime bowhunter, i shoot pistol and AR platform on a daily. Now i would like to get into longer range play.

Im looking for my next tool to rub down on those cold, dark nights. I hear to all the 6.5 CM hype as im not against. My only bolt gun now is a tiny .204 Savage. I primarily shoot by myself and would like to get into 1000 yard range.

With all the new sticks out there, is there one any of you would recommend to get started? I hear Ruger Rpr may be the way to go. My budget is keeping me under $1500 for rifle and another grand in Glass. Can i make this happen?

Im a big fan of you Frank ,if you read this by chance, and think what you are doing with this website and the podcast is great. I hope to meet you someday and shake your hand. Possibly by you an adult beverage of your choice! Thanks in advance and hope to become part of the community. Cheers!

 

[BurnOut]

You can absolutely make that happen for that budget... perhaps more now than ever before. There are a variety of options from buying used (*coughshamelessplugformyriflecough* http://texashuntingforum.com/forum/...14/Blueprinted_Savage_model_10_in#Post6993114) to going with something like the RPR or even something Tikka-based. Honestly, a lot of it comes down to personal preference as far as stock/chassis ergonomics and scope reticle... I will say that this forum is a great place to do research and find out what is going to be the best fit for you.

 

[Dugan324]

You can absolutely make that happen for that budget... perhaps more now than ever before. There are a variety of options from buying used (*coughshamelessplugformyriflecough* http://texashuntingforum.com/forum/...14/Blueprinted_Savage_model_10_in#Post6993114) to going with something like the RPR or even something Tikka-based. Honestly, a lot of it comes down to personal preference as far as stock/chassis ergonomics and scope reticle... I will say that this forum is a great place to do research and find out what is going to be the best fit for you.

Interesting! Would you send me pics to 5152406492

 

[BurnOut]

Interesting! Would you send me pics to 5152406492

Sent; please let me know if you have any questions.

 

[m6z]

That shouldn't be a problem. The RPR can be found for aound $1k, Howa and Bergara have several options under your $1,500 price point as well.

 

[mkultra]

Looks like you are in central Iowa ... where are you located?

 

[Dugan324]

Looks like you are in central Iowa ... where are you located?

Im down by Winterest. U?

 

[mkultra]

Im down by Winterest. U?

Des Moines.

 

[Diver160651]

You can absolutely do so with your budget.. This IS a good time for new shooters.

One option is to chamber something like a Valkyrie in your AR with just a upper change (or bolt/barrel) and add glass. The other would be to go the RPR, Bergara etc..

Caliber wise while the 6mm is is supper nice, I'd work back to the 6.5cm for 5 reasons. Very good ammo is now everywhere, you have an easier time identifying the splash, you'll have a bit longer range, barrels last fairly long and finally you will have enough recoil to develop good lines behind the gun.

Long range practical shooting and ELR (non F-class or Benchrest) is really a game of misses, near misses and corrections. The better you can see POI, the faster you can adjust the better you will perform. Here is were I'm going to stick my foot in my mouth, obviously, the lower recoiling 6mm is going to give a huge advantage in unsupported or funky positions.. But I still believe your better off dealing with a tiny bit more recoil in the beginning to get your fundamentals squared away and body lined up..

Frank and others have said lots of good thing about scope choices, everyone has a personal decision tree. But 99% of new to long range practical and ELR budget minded shooters, seem to always chase the fluff instead to the meat. They often ends up with a high magnification, low travel offering.

Here are a couple of examples of my personal decision trees: (Notice were magnification is, it certainly is not the first thing, and glass is actually a bit lower than many might choose, but something that often sets the choice once all other items are met.)

Long range a scope might look like this:
1. Type - FFP
2. Elevation - 100/30mil more is better
3. Reticle Style - a thin center, but subtensions
4. Exposed turrets
5. Magnification range top end near 25x more in not better depends on glass
6. Glass (moves up on my list if my budget allows for all 9 items are near equal)
7. FOV at low power
8. Capped or lockable windage
9. Warrantee
I then filter out by my price range.. Depending on what I have to spend I might have 1 choice or 10 that offer everything. I might have to save more $$ or give something up..(I would start from the bottom if i did)

For hunting might look like this:
1. Type - FFP
2. FOV at low power more is better
3. Reticle Style - a thin center, but subtensions
4. Exposed turrets
5. Magnification range top end near 15x but as long as FOV is large uper end isn't limited
6. Elevation - 60+/20mil
7. Glass (moves up on my list if my budget allows for all 9 items are near equal)
8. Illumination
9. Capped or lockable windage
10. Warrantee
I then filter out by my price range.. Depending on what I have to spend I might have 1 choice or 10.. I might have to save more $$ or give something up..(I would start from the bottom if i did)

Seems a lot of new people do it this way for a long range scope
1. Price
2. Magnification - the more the better most seem to think!
3. Exposed turrets
4. Reticle Style
5. Glass
6. FFP or SFP often not sure
9. Warrantee.

The reason for putting price last and then using it as a "filter" is it will allow you to look at all the inspirational offerings and you may then be better prepared to assign a better budget number than picking one out of the air.

You can find good deals on something like a Gen1 Razor HD, as well as a few others like Burris XTSII, Bushnell ERS, in your budget. But first as I mentioned I'd make your own decision tree.. They are kinda personal. You might end up deciding on flipping your budget, more for the scope and a bit less for the gun..

Don't forget lots of ammo, find good shooters to shoot with (harder to identify than you might think) or maybe a class at one of the bigger KNOWN facilities.

 

[Dugan324]

You can absolutely do so with your budget.. This IS a good time for new shooters.

One option is to chamber something like a Valkyrie in your AR with just a upper change (or bolt/barrel) and add glass. The other would be to go the RPR, Bergara etc..

Caliber wise while the 6mm is is supper nice, I'd work back to the 6.5cm for 5 reasons. Very good ammo is now everywhere, you have an easier time identifying the splash, you'll have a bit longer range, barrels last fairly long and finally you will have enough recoil to develop good lines behind the gun.

Long range practical shooting and ELR (non F-class or Benchrest) is really a game of misses, near misses and corrections. The better you can see POI, the faster you can adjust the better you will perform. Here is were I'm going to stick my foot in my mouth, obviously, the lower recoiling 6mm is going to give a huge advantage in unsupported or funky positions.. But I still believe your better off dealing with a tiny bit more recoil in the beginning to get your fundamentals squared away and body lined up..

Frank and others have said lots of good thing about scope choices, everyone has a personal decision tree. But 99% of new to long range practical and ELR budget minded shooters, seem to always chase the fluff instead to the meat. They often ends up with a high magnification, low travel offering.

Here are a couple of examples of my personal decision trees: (Notice were magnification is, it certainly is not the first thing, and glass is actually a bit lower than many might choose, but something that often sets the choice once all other items are met.)

Long range a scope might look like this:
1. Type - FFP
2. Elevation - 100/30mil more is better
3. Reticle Style - a thin center, but subtensions
4. Exposed turrets
5. Magnification range top end near 25x more in not better depends on glass
6. Glass (moves up on my list if my budget allows for all 9 items are near equal)
7. FOV at low power
8. Capped or lockable windage
9. Warrantee
I then filter out by my price range.. Depending on what I have to spend I might have 1 choice or 10 that offer everything. I might have to save more $$ or give something up..(I would start from the bottom if i did)

For hunting might look like this:
1. Type - FFP
2. FOV at low power more is better
3. Reticle Style - a thin center, but subtensions
4. Exposed turrets
5. Magnification range top end near 15x but as long as FOV is large uper end isn't limited
6. Elevation - 60+/20mil
7. Glass (moves up on my list if my budget allows for all 9 items are near equal)
8. Illumination
9. Capped or lockable windage
10. Warrantee
I then filter out by my price range.. Depending on what I have to spend I might have 1 choice or 10.. I might have to save more $$ or give something up..(I would start from the bottom if i did)

Seems a lot of new people do it this way for a long range scope
1. Price
2. Magnification - the more the better most seem to think!
3. Exposed turrets
4. Reticle Style
5. Glass
6. FFP or SFP often not sure
9. Warrantee.

The reason for putting price last and then using it as a "filter" is it will allow you to look at all the inspirational offerings and you may then be better prepared to assign a better budget number than picking one out of the air.

You can find good deals on something like a Gen1 Razor HD, as well as a few others like Burris XTSII, Bushnell ERS, in your budget. But first as I mentioned I'd make your own decision tree.. They are kinda personal. You might end up deciding on flipping your budget, more for the scope and a bit less for the gun..

Don't forget lots of ammo, find good shooters to shoot with (harder to identify than you might think) or maybe a class at one of the bigger KNOWN facilities.

Thanks Diver! Lots of great info there

 

[TXBO]

This is my first post so take it for what it's worth. If I were just starting out or helping someone start out here would be my choices.

For around $1000:
If you like a traditional type stock
1) Bergara HMR
2) Tikka CTR
If you like a Chassis
Howa HCR

For around $1500:
Bergara BMP

All come in 6.5 CM or .308

 

[Greg Langelius *]

While I haven't found a real need for an FFP scope in going on three decades of serious shooting, they do seem to be coming down in price and more common, so I'm as open as the next guy to an FFP 'something' that fits my needs and budget. Magnification is good at distance, even better at midrange, where mirage is less prominent (usually). I don't use MilDots because the greater bulk of my shooting is done on known distance ranges, and I supplement that with a laser range finder.

For roaming, I like 3-12x40 (with a .223 BDC feature, usually on my shorter AR's and Mossberg MVP Predator), and 8-32x44 with a fine wire/target dot reticle for shooting from a fixed position (for my 24" Varmint AR's and Varmint/Target Bolt rifle). Wherever possible, I like a side knob for focus/parallax adjustment.

The market is providing good LR-capable factory rifles these days. It probably makes good sense to start with a more basic and robust factory rifle with an eye to keeping it as your goto training rifle. While .223 will make the 1000yd distance in a stretch, it's better for around the 600yd region. This is not such an impediment, because 600yd facilities can be more accessible then 1000yd ones, and goodness knows, the .223/5.56 is more economical and easy to feed. Feeding it is a good opportunity to develop handloading skills on a more economical basis.

Later, as midrange skills, especially wind compensation, develop, you'll be better suited to a larger chambering. I like the 6.5's and have been shooting the 260 Rem for the better part of two decades. It's another option besides the 6.5CM, and whatever you choose, conserve money where wisest, and keep an eye to providing a decent supply of ammunition to support adequate practice. I only shoot the bigger chamberings when a genuine need arises, and stick with the .223 for the bulk of my training.

When weighing choices, I look to the long haul,. You'll be at this for awhile, and deeper specialization is better utilized down the road, as skills get better resolved. Upgrade the equipment to accommodate improved skills, not vice-versa, and try to keep a rein on sending so it doesn't end up postponing your ability to hit the range more frequently. Let your skills tell you when the equipment is becoming the limiting factor; until this is clearly known, expensive upgrades may be premature.

Otherwise, I see good advice above.

Greg

PS As an older Codger who trained in the Marines on the M-1 and M-14, I fervently recommend acquiring a shooter Garand while they are still pretty much within reach. I just had the pleasure this very morning of congratulating a good friend on his first really nice 100yd Garand target from a quite humble attic Garand that fell into his hands very reasonably. He took out the center of a 6" Shoot-n-See with 3 clips worth of M-2 Ball Equivalent Handloads had I lent him. He presented my with my empties, already polished clean, and the spent clips. He was happier than most I've seen this past week.

I am blessed with a good Ex US Army 300 meter range within an hour's drive, and live at a moderately higher altitude, around 4000ft to 4500ft in the SE Arizona High Desert. That altitude pushes the transsonic out another good bit and makes for more fun stretching the envelope, while allowing for some good shorter (100-300yd) range practice on a more frequent basis.

 

[Dugan324]

While I haven't found a real need for an FFP scope in going on three decades of serious shooting, they do seem to be coming down in price and more common, so I'm as open as the next guy to an FFP 'something' that fits my needs and budget. Magnification is good at distance, even better at midrange, where mirage is less prominent (usually). I don't use MilDots because the greater bulk of my shooting is done on known distance ranges, and I supplement that with a laser range finder.

For roaming, I like 3-12x40 (with a .223 BDC feature, usually on my shorter AR's and Mossberg MVP Predator), and 8-32x44 with a fine wire/target dot reticle for shooting from a fixed position (for my 24" Varmint AR's and Varmint/Target Bolt rifle). Wherever possible, I like a side knob for focus/parallax adjustment.

The market is providing good LR-capable factory rifles these days. It probably makes good sense to start with a more basic and robust factory rifle with an eye to keeping it as your goto training rifle. While .223 will make the 1000yd distance in a stretch, it's better for around the 600yd region. This is not such an impediment, because 600yd facilities can be more accessible then 1000yd ones, and goodness knows, the .223/5.56 is more economical and easy to feed. Feeding it is a good opportunity to develop handloading skills in a more economical basis.

Later, as midrange skills, especially wind compensation, develop, you'll be better suited to a larger chambering. I like the 6.5's and have been shooting the 260 Rem for the better part of two decades. It's another option besides the 6.5CM, and whatever you choose, conserve money where wisest, and keep an eye to providing a decent supply of ammunition to support adequate practice. I only shoot the bigger chamberings when a genuine need arises, and stick with the .223 for the bulk of my training.

When weighing choices, I look to the long haul,. You'll be at this for awhile, and deeper specialization is better utilized down the road, as skills get better resolved. Upgrade the equipment to accommodate improved skills, not vice-versa, and try to keep a rein on sending so it doesn't end up postponing your ability to hit the range more frequently. Let your skills tell you when the equipment is becoming the limiting factor; until this is clearly known, expensive upgrades may be premature.

Otherwise, I see good advice above.

Greg

Thanks Greg. Your great advice is very much appreciated. Thank you

 

[Lowlight]

Hello all. First poster here. I have been listening to the podcasts for some time now and just got the fever. Longtime bowhunter, i shoot pistol and AR platform on a daily. Now i would like to get into longer range play.

Im looking for my next tool to rub down on those cold, dark nights. I hear to all the 6.5 CM hype as im not against. My only bolt gun now is a tiny .204 Savage. I primarily shoot by myself and would like to get into 1000 yard range.

With all the new sticks out there, is there one any of you would recommend to get started? I hear Ruger Rpr may be the way to go. My budget is keeping me under $1500 for rifle and another grand in Glass. Can i make this happen?

Im a big fan of you Frank ,if you read this by chance, and think what you are doing with this website and the podcast is great. I hope to meet you someday and shake your hand. Possibly by you an adult beverage of your choice! Thanks in advance and hope to become part of the community. Cheers!

Thanks for the kind words, and welcome aboard

Ruger, Tikka, Bergara, all good choices, even the Howa is a very good choice in your price range

 

[B-P-UU]

What are your intended purposes? That will help drive some decisions. Hunting, Casual plinking, LR steel, local matches?

I've handled a Bergara HMR and think they are a great option for around 1k..

 

[WeiserBucks]

It really doesn't matter, get whatever you can afford and hit the range! You'll most likely devolution a serious disease known as long range shooting. After the diagnosis is confirmed, you'll have several different rifles in different calibers and a handful of scopes. At that point, you'll be tired of paying for factory ammo and you'll dive into reloading. Mark my words !

 

[Dugan324]

Ok! So just an update. Roughly 12 hours later, made a trip to the lgs, and got my hands on the Begara, Tikka ,and a RPR and i must say ...ive definitely been bit. I love the weight, the feel and the folding stock. Now comes my delima. A member here has a sweet Howa in XLR evo chassis all set up with a Cronus looking to part with. And he's local! My only beef is she's chambered in .308 .

Now my question is this...the HMFIC says the .308 is dying. Is this true? How many of you men bought a .308 , when the 6.5 Creed is what ya wanted, and now is a Safe queen and yer shootin the Creed ya bought later? Now mind you, I'm no expert. Will I notice that much difference 1000yds+-? This is just a hobby for me right now. I will be shooting by myself mostly. Make up my damn mind!!???

 

[Diver160651]

I can’t put words in his mouth, but while the 308 has been surpassed by the CM and other 6mms. You can shoot a metric ton of 308 and not burn the barrel while learning a ton. So ya, if it was between two new offerings I’d go CM; but if you can save 2 3k on a full setup, and it is what you want.. get it. You can shoot a lot of 308 for 2-3 grand and maybe shortcut your way by taking a class. At the club level, you can still win with a 308.. you can with the correct barrel and 175FGMM bang steel at 1k until you run out of money

Later a new barrel in 6 or 6.5 is easy in the future change.

 

[CPank]

Hello all. First poster here. I have been listening to the podcasts for some time now and just got the fever. Longtime bowhunter, i shoot pistol and AR platform on a daily. Now i would like to get into longer range play.

Im looking for my next tool to rub down on those cold, dark nights. I hear to all the 6.5 CM hype as im not against. My only bolt gun now is a tiny .204 Savage. I primarily shoot by myself and would like to get into 1000 yard range.

With all the new sticks out there, is there one any of you would recommend to get started? I hear Ruger Rpr may be the way to go. My budget is keeping me under $1500 for rifle and another grand in Glass. Can i make this happen?

Im a big fan of you Frank ,if you read this by chance, and think what you are doing with this website and the podcast is great. I hope to meet you someday and shake your hand. Possibly by you an adult beverage of your choice! Thanks in advance and hope to become part of the community. Cheers!

Hello sixoxostitchedlegging63cxoxostitchedlegging63c

Hello all. First poster here. I have been listening to the podcasts for some time now and just got the fever. Longtime bowhunter, i shoot pistol and AR platform on a daily. Now i would like to get into longer range play.

Im looking for my next tool to rub down on those cold, dark nights. I hear to all the 6.5 CM hype as im not against. My only bolt gun now is a tiny .204 Savage. I primarily shoot by myself and would like to get into 1000 yard range.

With all the new sticks out there, is there one any of you would recommend to get started? I hear Ruger Rpr may be the way to go. My budget is keeping me under $1500 for rifle and another grand in Glass. Can i make this happen?

Im a big fan of you Frank ,if you read this by chance, and think what you are doing with this website and the podcast is great. I hope to meet you someday and shake your hand. Possibly by you an adult beverage of your choice! Thanks in advance and hope to become part of the community. Cheers!

Hey there, I️ believe I can help you stay below your budget on the rifle. I️ have a Remington 700 barreled action chambered in 6.5x47. I️ am asking below your budget and the action comes trued up and with a if you are interested I’d love to talk on the phone and tell you more

 

[Greg Langelius *]

The .308 is not dead, not even close.

I had sold all my .308's back around 2004 to help cover some medicals, dove deep into the .260 Rem and thought I'd never look back.

Well..., a year or so ago, I got my hands on a Savage 11VT .308 and simply couldn't let go. It became the fraternal twin of my 11VT .223, and I was planning on buying a Lothar-Walther Savage drop-in chambered in .260 and spinning it onto the new rifle.

But then, I bought a set of reloading dies in .308, and that .308 barrel is not coming off the 11VT after all. I'm doing a back burner project developing a load for it with the Hornady 178gr ELD-X.

The thing of it is that the .223 and .308 have become my 600yd and 1000yd F T/R rifles. My .260 Rem is a decently built custom based on a 2001 Savage 10FP, using a Lothar-Walther 28" length, 1:8" twist drop-in barrel which became an exact precursor to their factory .260 drop-in. It has served me very well for 1000yd F Open over a small number of years back in the earlier-mid 2000's.

So I think of the .308 as the necessary third leg on my F Class tripod.

My 11VT's ran me $550 each with $100 rebates atop that, have been mounted in Choate Tactical stocks, and scoped with Mueller 8-32x44's and still came in well under $1000 apiece. Both rifles came together very nicely, and fit my personal mantra of 'economical, not cheap'. The .223 shot in the 600yd Midrange stages of the Berger SW LR Nationals just about this time last year, in what turned out as basically my F Class Nationals swan song, I'm turning 72 in May, and had a second Heart attack last April.

Like the .308, I'm not down, and I'm not out. I'm just shooting in a smaller venue, is all; and having myself a smaller ball. I'm calling it my Tournament for One.

Greg