F T/R Competition Increasing Competitor Numbers?

[Tactical]

I am attempting to get numbers for increases if any in F and F TR Shooters on the various lines across the country. I am looking for estimated numbers of three years ago and today of persons competing monthly in F and F TR Classes. I also would like the estimated numbers for three years ago. What range/club involved would also be helpful

Please give me any numbers you can. Estimates of numbers and if the numbers are increasing or decreasing would also be helpful. PMs or Emails would also help.

This is for the good of the sport.

 

[KT35]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

Mike,
North state keeps results for High Power at Camp Butner all the way back to 1999.

They haven't however posted the 2011 results

You can get all the info you need there.

But just a quick look comparing the first three 2010 matches and 2012 matches results are as follows:

2010 spring 600 yard weekend: 41 FTR/F-open
2012 spring 600 yard weekend: 45 FTR/F-open

2010 NSSC LR Championship: 48 FTR/F-open
2012 NSSC LR Championship: 91 FTR/F-open

2010 MID Range/Palma: 15: FTR/F-open
2012 MID Range/Palma: 26: FTR/F-open (second day cancelled due to weather)

I have only beeen shooting around 7 months now though. Jeff R would probably be able to give you a better ideal of numbers.

Keith

 

[nesikabay]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

I could be wrong but getting some sponsers to donate prizes would help. I have been shooting F/TR from the time it started and if i had all the money i have won it would not pay for 1 trip to Raton N.M. And i have won state and regional matches. Take a look at what the Tact. win. They win and give away nice stuff. Hell i put on a charity match and the top prize was worth way over 1000 dollars. All together at that match we gave away over 5000 in prizes. Even at the Nationals you cant win anything. I dont shoot F/Class for the money. I shoot to win and have fun but a prize table would help

 

[USFTR]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

I've been helping Mike with the numbers for Butner. Thanks Keith.


Getting sponsors to donate prizes is not as easy as it sounds. Many match directors have tried and swear they will not do it again. It is also an issue when competitors do not contact and thank those companies that donated prizes. At the F-Class Nationals, there are prizes. I remember a very happy young man win a Savage FTR rifle just this past October.

 

[Tactical]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

Hey guys this is just about numbers of competitors at matches. Not about sponsors.

Shiraz on another note thanks for all the donations and work you do to grow the sport.

Jeff and Keith, thanks agin for your help on this.

 

[scaxeman]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

F-Class Nationals participation:
2007: 22 F-T/R, 74 F-Open
2011: 62 F-T/R, 89 F-Open

 

[arborpro]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

Turn out for shooters is way down at my local club. we have even advertised that shooters could shoot F class on prone nights for our high power league. I've only seen 1 person show up so far for F class. if anyone is near the central new york area. we have high power league on Mondays and Fridays starting @1730.
http://www.camillussportsmensclub.com/news.php

Was hoping to see some LE show up but no interest.
I really believe that shooting has gotten cost prohibitive. The average guy just cant afford to get into like years ago.

I'm afraid the sport is going to die and be taken over by trap shooters. Not that I’m against trap shooters mind you. That and bench rest will be next for me when sit gets to hard for my old ass to get into position for.

It just seems that trap gun people just don't want to associate with rifle shooters. As matter of fact they claim if our numbers don't pick up for high power they may just stop having it, as the shotgunners could use the space.

5 and 10 years ago the line would be full on league nite for high power(30 shooters). but lately we will have 8 or 9 shooters show up. Years ago the club was very active in all the state/regional matches and we had teams shoot at perry,butner and quantico. You'd have a hard time getting a team for just the states now.

It will be sad day when high power stops in central new york. I truly believe its the test of the true rifleman ability. But I’m afraid its just around the corner.

Hope others aren't experiencing the same results.

Arborpro

 

[Jeffvn]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

+1 Turnout at my local club in Las Vegas (Boulder Rifle and Pistol Club) is way down over the last two years. We had a core of shooters that used to show up for everything that no longer come at all. Our tactical guys - including several members here - now rarely show up.

We have 2 or 3 shooters that are traveling to other regional clubs to shoot (Ratone or Ben Avery). For the older retired guys, cost does not seem to be an issue. I don't have an explanation about the non-retired folks. At least on our line, the grey hairs are the only ones showing up anymore.

I agree with the above comment that the sport is likely going to die, at least at my club. IF we can't justify excluding members to run a match we will loose the time slot on the club calendar and it will be very hard indeed to get it back.

+1 on this also. Shotgun and trap is growing quickly at my club and they are already talking about taking the space.

5 years ago the 600 F-Class matches had 20 competitors for a regular monthly match - we talked about trying to hold a regional match; now we are lucky to have 10 people total, including 3 or 4 sling guys that are using 600 for sling practice. 1,000 yard F-Class and our Regional matches get maybe 1 total competitors, as compared with 15 or 20.

I understand that the young tactical guys on this site may not like the discipline of F-Class, and so they don't come out. But without additional support from the shooting community in Las Vegas, I think our days are limited.

Jeffvn

 

[J-ROD]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

Weird, I look at most schedules and don't see many 1K matches, which is the only thing that interests me and motivates me to drive the 2-2.5hrs. If there was a 1K event every weekend (or just practice), I would attend provided the wife (boss) would allow.
Also, sometimes there are only 1 or 2 matches so figure 40-60 shots tops with sighters...adding more matches per day would be fine by me too

EDIT: Just saw the NSSC June 16/17 shoot...now we are talking!!

 

[Tactical]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

btt, anyone?

 

[gstaylorg]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

I began shooting F-Class at Eastern Nebraska Gun Club outside Omaha last year. I've flown back after moving to San Diego to attend several matches. Until this year, the matches were NRA-sanctioned midrange events @ 600 yd that included sling shooters as well as F-Class. Last year, there were typically anywhere from 6-7 up to 15 or so F-Class shooters, with a little less than half of those competing in F-T/R.

For the first time this year, they gave F-Class its own separate event and the first one of these F-Class matches was held May 26th a couple weekends ago. At this match, there were 27 shooters total, with 16 in F-T/R and 11 in F-Open. According to the Match Director, there would have been closer to 40 shooters if it hadn't been held on the Memorial day weekend, so it seems as though attendance is definitely increasing.

 

[Tactical]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

Thanks for info.

Anyone else?

 

[XTR]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

We've got a fair number of F-O shooters in Oak Ridge, but I don't often see much local competition in F-TR. Seems everyone wants to shoot a laser.

I'm currently on the mend from a badly broken leg (still in a wheelchair) but I'm seriously planning to get some kind of F-TR flyers out in the gun shops locally.

 

[Boblor]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

Cadillac Sportsman's Club in Michigan this past Sunday 30 Mid Range 3x600 yd. shooters 16 were F class. 8 Ftr and 8 F open.

Bob L.
Match Director

 

[Tactical]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

FTR, I am looking for total numbers of both F and FTR Classes.

 

[Pthfndr-CA]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

Mike

I try and save the results sent out for the Sac Valley matches. Missing a couple. All June matches are XTC, and March are all the LR March Madness matches so not included.

Date----match type------FO-FTR

2/10------3x600--------13--4
4/10------3x600---------6--3
5/10------Palma---------7--5
7/10------3x600---------7--9
10/10----3x600----------6--10
11/10----Palma---------3--2
11/10----1K any/any---7--3

1/11-----Palma----------6--2
1/11-----1K any/any---7--0
2/11-----3x600---------13--12
4/11-----3x600---------6--20
5/11-----Palma---------8--8
7/11-----3x600---------13--15
8/11-----Palma---------8--8--plus 11 Tactical in separate class
8/11-----Full Bore-----9--6 (Full Bore is 300/600/800/1000 yards)
9/11-----Full Bore-----7--5
9/11-----Palma---------8--3
10/11---3x600----------9--11
11/11---Palma---------7--5
11/11---1K any/any---9--4
12/11---F Special-----4--12--4 Tactical--14 Vintage (Folsom Special is 300/500/600/800 yards)

1/12----Palma----------9--11
1/12----1K any/any----7--3
2/12----3x600----------7--16--6 Tactical
4/12----3x600----------10--11
5/12----Palma----------3--7

 

[rjnallie]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

I can somewhat see what is happening at Boulder. I tried to make a visit to that club during the past year. An attempt to contact via e-mail was made that I would like to see the facility on a Las Vegas 3-day trip. No response. I then drove the 45 minutes to the club. Sat at the locked gate for 30 minutes, then a club member showed up, let himself in and offered no help. Finally drove back frustrated. I shoot F T/R at Houston, Beaumont and Palo Alto. In our part of the country, members go out of their way to promote new shooters. It shows in their monthly attendance.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

I think one improves the numbers of shooters at the higher levels of competition by investing more recruiting effort at the less stressful end of the competitive spectrum. I believe, personally, that it's more than just an option. One cannot expect participation gains at the top levels without investing one's own time into some sort of tangible grassroots outreach. If we don't, who will? Looking around, I don't see that person anywhere but in a mirror.

That's what STP is doing (and rather successfully, I'll venture), with the FV program our local club runs.

It pits the new shooter against an MOA-consistent to F Class target at a more reasonably acessible local range. It stresses an informal manner that follows a similar course of fire, and allows for an ensemble approach to aid and assist the shooter toward success in a many practical ways as possible. No, repeat no, awards are given; just scores posted where the shooters can find them ASAP afterward online (on this forum under the FV250 label).

The shooter is nurtured into a more enjoyable involvement to competitive shooting, but with the emphasis on gradual improvement rather than vying for top status. They learn at their own pace, with readily available assistance, and 'go for it' whenever they're ready, no peer pressure, and with the full support of their fellow participants.

Success is measured in repeat participation, improving performance, better cognizance of the tasks and routines involved, and some growing insurgence toward similar programs at neighboring clubs.

I think it's working.

BTW, it's the <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">only</span></span> competitive program our Club runs on a frequent and regular basis. An average good turnout probably runs around a dozen shooters; but perhaps twice as many have appeared on occasion, with women and teens often prominent in the pack. Not at all oddly, the skill sets run the full gamut, and nobody feels either unwelcome or outclassed. The program runs twice each month when the snow isn't obviating a seasonal break. For a local club program, I think it gets full marks.

Greg

 

[dean253]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

Seems as though numbers are down here in Oklahoma, I don't have hard numbers for you as I am not running the prone matches @ OKC anymore but from what I am seeing it is down. 280man on this site is the Match Director in Tulsa he can probably give you hard numbers.

If you dable into the territory of how to get numbers up Leslie is right on target, all you have to do is look at what the tactical guys are doing. I shoot both disciplines & it is no comparison. I hardly ever shoot a local F-class match anymore because of it.

Rorer (usftr) is correct in this statement "I remember a very happy young man win a Savage FTR rifle just this past October.".

The only problem with that was the fella that won the rifle was not even entered into the match, he was a local kid that was there all week making money pulling targets. Also the year before they had a great prize table at Nationals & drew for prizes all the while throwing the tickets back in the hopper, so there were some guys that won like 5 different prizes & several guys that got nothing.

 

[79M1a-texas]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

The Texas Mid-Range Championship for FTR only:
2009 - 28 shooters
2010 - 32 shooters
2011 - 31 shooters
2012 - 37 shooters (in 102 degree temperatures)

 

[QuietShootr]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

Another good thing to do would to be able to keep the Highpower shooters away from them so they don't poison them with their shitty attitude. IMO, of course.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

FTR died in North Texas because of one D-Bag with the initials SG, F class could be really big across the county but the rules against muzzle devices stinks, the attitude toward new shooter stinks, and since there is no real world application the sport has no interest, fix these things and maybe throw a bone or two to the winners and F class will appeal to a broader base of new and seasoned shooters across the board.

 

[Hoser]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

The banning of suppressors took out a lot of people from the sport. Myself included.

 

[RStewart]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

We have actually seen the number of FTR shooters increase over the past 3 years at Palo Alto in Donaldsonville, LA.

2009 FTR Mthly 5 F-Open Mthly 5
2010 FTR Mthly 7 F-Open Mthly 6
2011 FTR Mthly 9 F-Open Mthly 8
2012 FTR Mthly 12 F-Open Mthly 11

Our State matches usually average 16-18 FTR shooters.

In 2011 we started an independent FPR match and average 15 shooters at the monthly match. That match allows suppressors.

Rick

 

[Boblor]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hoser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The banning of suppressors took out a lot of people from the sport. Myself included. </div></div>

I am all for suppressors, but I wonder how they are working out when you take 22 shots in 22 minutes or less? Heat? Accuracy? Most matches in our area, Michigan, are 60 shot matches (3 twenty shot matches) often with unlimited sighters.

I could not send in the score of a F class Suppressed to the NRA, but I would let them shoot the match. I suppose in their own class and pay an award if I had three of them.

Bob L

 

[SRSDriver]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Boblor</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hoser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The banning of suppressors took out a lot of people from the sport. Myself included. </div></div>

I am all for suppressors, but I wonder how they are working out when you take 22 shots in 22 minutes or less? Heat? Accuracy? Most matches in our area, Michigan, are 60 shot matches (3 twenty shot matches) often with unlimited sighters.

I could not send in the score of a F class Suppressed to the NRA, but I would let them shoot the match. I suppose in their own class and pay an award if I had three of them.

Bob L
</div></div>

I'm in the same group, banning suppressors takes me out.

In a typical field match, we have shot 30-45 rounds in 20-30 minutes, with a 200+ yard run in between a string of 5 or 6. The suppressors do fine.

 

[Denys]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

Are we still talking about F-class competition here? I'm getting confused by the talk of suppressors, 200 yard dashes between 5 shot strings and applications to other real world situations; F-class is F-class.

 

[RStewart]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

Update-
We had 17 FTR shooters and 15 F-Open at today's match.
Rick

 

[no1special]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

some idle thoughts on postings so far. how many nra competitions have a "real world" application? smallbore? bullseye? high power? palma? f class? they all but require very special firearms to be competitive. $$$$$. some have stable numbers,some up,some down. cans/silencers/sound reducers are not counted in any nra sanctioned event. why? the rules say so. complain to nra not here. the nra holds the competitors thoughts and desires in high regard, don't they? imho, nra does its best in trying to destroy competitions as they are a "money pit." a pac (political action committee) are where they want to be. now, muzzle breaks. one of the reasons i picked f t/r was not sharing the line with muzzle brakes. short barreled ar's with flash hiders are bad enough. segregate them o.k. but 2,4,6,8 they can't make me integrate. i will be gone. net effect may well be a wash. ONLY WAY TO INCREASE NUMBERS IS TO RECRUIT AND HELP NEWBIES!!! how many here have? betting almost none. olympic golds in bitching, however, are the order of the day.

 

[sniper7369]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

This year we have 11 people shooting F/TR and 12 in FO at our club. Numbers fluctuate between 20+ to 30 shooters. Four years ago when I first started shooting there we had maybe 12-15 people total showing up.

 

[mattt]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

I got into the sport from a local shooter Gary Childs. He has promoted the sport to alot of others here in Nor Cal. When I go to a f/tr match here at sac valley alot of shooters are here because he got us here. He has always helped anyone that asked for advise or tips on shooting.

 

[MADUCE]

Re: Increasing Competitor Numbers?

We ran the TSRA state matches for years, and had Palma matches every month. It turned into more of a hastle then it was worth. Numbers dropped to nothing and we could have 3 students in a class and make twice the money.