Indicators of Business / Seller Instability

[stanley_white]

By now you have probably purchased things online from good and bad businesses, and good and bad individuals.

Reflecting on your bad experiences, what are some indicators of badness that you missed when the transaction began?

-Stan

 

[remaction]

I got hosed on a motorcycle seat one time by a place in St, George, UT. They said they only took personal checks, no credit cards. No seat showed and nobody answered the phone weeks later. I must have been one of the last before they shut it down. It was about 20 years ago so it may not translate as well as other indicators today.
I avoid personal sellers that only take money orders and fringe payment methods like Zelle. Those that cannot type in plain English are no-go’s for me. Those with few posts get PP+fee, even though I hate using Paypal, but there is some protection there.

 

[stanley_white]

I confess that the older I get the more I distrust small businesses.

Unless I have no other choice, in the future I think I would rather pay a higher price to a large business and receive timely communication and customer service than a lower price from a smaller business and receive haphazard communication and “when we get around to it” customer service.

-Stan

 

[Oldloser]

If there is any doubt, there is doubt.

1. Slow communications. They don't want your money.
2. Over complicated communications or payment methods. They should take CC.
3. No sign of any reputation scores on any platform. Google, here, yelp.
4. No storefront apparent on google earth when you look at the address.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I avoid businesses that drop ship everything and stock little to nothing just out of principle. I also avoid businesses that you can’t get someone on the phone during normal business hours.

As for purchasing from individuals, if they don’t have solid reputation I won’t deal with them. That goes for selling to people too, I have no problem denying a sale and I do it all the time, just not worth the possible headache. I don’t care what payment method someone wants as long as they’re reputable and it’s not PayPal since they’re cocksuckers.

 

[Warpspeed]

Drop Ship

It never occurred to me to ask if the item was in stock or not. My clue should have been the 10-14 day shipping from date of order. I should have asked why and not assumed it was due to order volume. Everything worked out eventually but not without a little stress on my part.

If we have learned anything from the LO Incident, you must know the window to file a charge back on your cc.

 

[TheOE800]

Geocities era website design.

 

[Meety Peety]

Any time I hear "No I don't have that, but I can order it for you" I run like hell. Every time I've done that, it's turned out poorly.

 

[WindstormSCR]

Any time I hear "No I don't have that, but I can order it for you" I run like hell. Every time I've done that, it's turned out poorly.

the only business I work with that I let get away with that is my local fun store. simply because there is too much shit and his space isn't big enough to stock everything. he hits the highlights pretty well though.

it also helps I can knock on the door of the business and if there ever is trouble I know where to serve papers

online: as long as I can use some method that provides me buyer protection and there is actual email response to inquiries, I'll give it a shot.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Any time I hear "No I don't have that, but I can order it for you" I run like hell. Every time I've done that, it's turned out poorly.

So you won’t buy something unless a retailer in a niche market has it sitting on the shelf? There’s plenty of instances where it’s reasonable for a dealer to not stock something, especially if you’re wanting something that’s not a hot seller. That doesn’t make them sketchy in the least bit. Not saying they couldn’t be but it shouldn’t necessarily be a red flag.

 

[R_A_W]

fringe payment methods like Zelle

"fringe"

70MM monthly users, >$600B/yr

v. Paypal pulling this shit

I'll use Zelle every chance I get

 

[redneckbmxer24]

"fringe"

70MM monthly users, >$600B/yr

v. Paypal pulling this shit

I'll use Zelle every chance I get

Yep and they flagged my account as a business account when everything I’ve ever sold with it has been my personal items that I’ve sold at a loss which is clearly not a business and business accounts are not eligible to receive family and friends payments to avoid their bullshit fees. Fuck them.

 

[remaction]

Well, all I can say is the individuals that wanted me to use Zelle could not communicate in plain english. That's a red flag to me. Good luck.

A Quick Google search:
Do scammers use Venmo or Zelle?

The convenience is great, but it's important to know who is on the other end of your transaction. The Federal Trade Commission is issuing a fresh alert, pointing out that scammers are now using Zelle — a bank-to-bank transfer app — to pose as your bank and tell you there's a problem with your account. Aug 16, 2023

I stand corrected, go ahead and replace my word "fringe" with "the scammers choice".
And BTW, I do NOT promote Paypal, it's just a tool in the toolbox..

 

[stanley_white]

“I started this thread so people could second guess each other.”

-Not Me

 

[R_A_W]

I’ll SWAG that there is a higher volume of fraud via paypal
edit - you might be right, it looks like PayPal reports a higher % of fraud than Zelle, but per a 2022 Senate report Zelle’s reported fraud % likely materially understate the actual fraud %

PayPal requires very little info to open an account

You can only sign up for Zelle if you have a bank account at a bank partnered w/ Zelle, which means you’ve gone through that bank’s fraud protection measures & the account is tied to an individual

All that said, if you were scammed with one, you were going to get scammed with the other

DYODD on counterparties

 

[Hobo Hilton]

The excuse of "I really don't have any control over _________ (fill in the blank)"...
The largest online retailer's have control over the majority of online hiccups".
The oncoming recession will eliminate many borderline businesses.
Survival of the Fittest is about to play out.

 

[stanley_white]

If the website says “We are a small team” that actually means “This is a side business for us and you won’t receive communications or actions from us in a timely manner.”

If the website says “Please bear with us as (insert excuse here)” it means “We need to hire 25% more staff but we prioritize money over customer service so we aren’t going to do that.”

If, rather than having a rolling email conversation with you, they reply using some kind of graphic format that removes your original message to them, they are hiding something.

It’s also a good idea to note that just because a company is successful at X doesn’t mean it will be successful at Y. When I see companies beginning to veer out of the lane they have been successful in thus far, I get suspicious.

-Stan

 

[reelserious]

I will only buy something if its in stock . I also will only deal with companies that have real time inventory on their web site.

 

[SporterII]

I denied a sale on BARF. Buyer was rude at best. I got a notice I was banned. I explained I would not transfer a firearm (Colt 9mm lower) to this person based on lack of courtesy. Did not feel I had to use stronger language.

 

[Haney]

If I can't take a whiff of it I won't buy from that weed dealer .

 

[308pirate]

The oncoming recession will eliminate many borderline businesses.

Lol even a broken clock is right twice a day

 

[Haney]

Beware of "gun assemblers" that pose as "Gunsmiths" . Many have fancy names and websites . You see them on all the forums . After you read their posts for a while you can read right through them .

 

[WindstormSCR]

Beware of "gun assemblers" that pose as "Gunsmiths" . Many have fancy names and websites . You see them on all the forums . After you read their posts for a while you can read right through them .

hot take: if you don't have the facility to thread a barrel or ream/headspace a chamber, you're not a gunsmith. That means a decent lathe and/or mill, and knowing what the actual fuck you're doing with one.

anyone below that level I'd call an armorer, and there are plenty of things an armorer may know that your average trigger puller might not

No shame in being an armorer, just be honest about capabilities.

 

[Spectre3]

I got hosed on a motorcycle seat one time by a place in St, George, UT. They said they only took personal checks, no credit cards. No seat showed and nobody answered the phone weeks later. I must have been one of the last before they shut it down. It was about 20 years ago so it may not translate as well as other indicators today.
I avoid personal sellers that only take money orders and fringe payment methods like Zelle. Those that cannot type in plain English are no-go’s for me. Those with few posts get PP+fee, even though I hate using Paypal, but there is some protection there.

I get where you're coming from with the payment method thing, but I along with a lot of others, only do payment through zelle or money order now.

I've had constant security and other issues with paypal over the years. I'd wager due to the bank account requirement, Zelle is more secure than Paypal these days.

That combined with the fact that they (along with venmo) report transactions once you pass the $600 mark made me quit using anything but zelle or MO. I'm not paying income tax to sell stuff I've already paid sales tax on when I bought it new.

Does it suck that I can't buy or sell stuff on ebay anymore? Yeah but it's worth it to not have to deal with paypal anymore.

 

[Aftermath]

Lol even a broken clock is right twice a day

Banned again? Shit...

 

[TheOtherAndrew]

If your gunna try and make money from a business idea you have to put money into the front end to make the customer experience not any worse than say Walmart or McDon et al. I understand why ppl with smaller acts may disagree with me but EOD you want to survive or thrive? And who is going in on the front end of a new business not intending to drop any CAPEX?

 

[eprom]

I recently bought a ZCO 527 Scope from an official Zero Compromise Optic dealer in Germany. As the dealer is listed on their website and the scope was in stock, I decided to pull the trigger. I paid by Wire Transfer, the only method available. Paypal was not accepted due to the 'Firearm parts are not allowed' policy.

I transferred approx. 3000+ EUR for the scope. A few days later, as I didn't receive any updates, I wanted to know the status of my order, contacted them by email, no answer... Finally, I texted them by using their 'customer support' contact phone number, and got a quick answer. The money was received, but I have to wait a "few more days" for the scope to be shipped out due to some export regulation issues.

3 weeks later, it finally shipped out. The package went to the carrier's export center, then sent back to the seller after a few days. The carrier's claimed paperwork were missing. The seller ship again; package went to the export center then sent back to the sender, once again! The seller claim he violated the TOS of the carrier, but he will figure out a way to send the package to me; seller complains he has no time to deal with my order because it takes "1 hour" of his work time

1 week later, still no updates... I ask him to do something or I will ask for cancellation of my order. Nothing, communication blackout. Fuck that shit. That's probably one of the worst customer experience I ever had, especially considering the cost of the product. At this time of writting, I still have no scope, no refund. It has been a pain in the ass since day 1.

The fact this seller is only accepting wire transfer should have been a BIG red flag to me. I should have probably contacted the dealer before making the purchase and evaluated the answers. What bug me the most is how this business ends up in the official dealer list of a well known and trusted company like ZCO. The seller has no regards for his customer.

 

[stanley_white]

I stay away from any business with a reputation of having a single point of failure / no plan for resilience during tough times.

For example, unless your entire workforce has taken a vacation to a place where there is no cell coverage and no internet, there is no excuse for a lack of timely response to phone calls, voice mails, and emails.

Even a simple “Email received. We will get back to you within 96 hours,” is better than silence.

Also, stop acting like you actually man the online chat function.

-Stan

 

[darrelldors]

It depends on the business and what I want to buy.
If it is clothes, decor or something like that from online stores or Instagram pages, I pay attention to reviews, communication style and payment/return policy.
If I want to buy something more expensive, then I'm more careful and try to choose only stores I know, which are known in my town/country. It's better not to risk.
When I need to get professional services, I look for Google reviews, information about them, and so on.
In general, here are a few indicators which tell me that the business is better to avoid:
Bad communication, no reputation, reviews, and uncommon payment methods. I'm thinking about opening my own business, and of course, I'll use my experience to provide the best service. I already had an idea. I also found this company https://ddi-dev.com/, which provides custom software development services, and based on the info provided there, it's a good one. I have a friend who works with it now, and so far, I've not heard something negative. And that's also an important point - to ask some people you know about their experience because it will surely help you to avoid some problems.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

It depends on the business and what I want to buy.
If it is clothes, decor or something like that from online stores or Instagram pages, I pay attention to reviews, communication style and payment/return policy.
If I want to buy something more expensive, then I'm more careful and try to choose only stores I know, which are known in my town/country. It's better not to risk.
When I need to get professional services, I look for Google reviews, information about them, and so on.
In general, here are a few indicators which tell me that the business is better to avoid:
Bad communication, no reputation, reviews, and uncommon payment methods.

New member, first post.... Chatbot / AI ?
Have you ever written a negative review and been notified that your review did not meet the requirements and would not be posted ?

 

[308pirate]

The excuse of "I really don't have any control over _________ (fill in the blank)"...
The largest online retailer's have control over the majority of online hiccups".
The oncoming recession will eliminate many borderline businesses.
Survival of the Fittest is about to play out.

LOL this aged well

Still waiting for your impending recession. Though I figure one will eventually come like they always do then you'll strut around saying I told you so.

Nope....more like even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

[darrelldors]

New member, first post.... Chatbot / AI ?
Have you ever written a negative review and been notified that your review did not meet the requirements and would not be posted ?

Just a new member
Yes, twice I think I wrote a negative review which weren't posted, but usually it's okay with it.
And I know that even good reviews can't always be trusted

 

[Smokin7s]

I no longer fuck with any business online that doesn’t clearly state in stock or out of stock, and if I email the company and something that says in stock is actually out of stock I’ll usually pay more somewhere else permanently. Also, if you really want to get me buying your shit have the live “x-amount in stock” in green when I go to click the add to cart. I’m a sucker for that.

 

[nso123]

In the world of MAP pricing, it’s always safer to go to the business with the best reputation. It makes it tough for small businesses to take off, but there are so many scams out there that you have to stay cautious.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

In the world of MAP pricing, it’s always safer to go to the business with the best reputation. It makes it tough for small businesses to take off, but there are so many scams out there that you have to stay cautious.

Going get parts at the "dealer" (trucks, tractors, fork lifts, etc) is always a bit more expensive.
But they come with a warranty and the fit and finish is better than aftermarket.
Have not bought anything lately with the label "Meets or exceeds manufacturer's specifications"...

 

[LA260]

I'm dealing with this as we speak. Ordered a part for a rifle from a small business with a cute story in the about section. Confirmed that the part is in stock. It's been 5 business days and the status is still Awaiting Fulfillment lol. Either the part is not in stock and the guy is bsing, or he is busy doing something else. Will I order from them again? No I'll just pay 12% more, order from Midway/Brownells etc.. and have it on my door step in 2 days.

 

[AleksanderSuave]

the whole "we only accept Zelle because paypal is bad for 2a" is a shit compromise.

The majority of FFLs, gun shops, and ranges have credit card processing. Its not that hard to figure out.

If they want a non-refundable payment method, that to me is a scam.

Especially in the current world of "we'll ship it when we can, stop asking", no thanks.

Last year, I ordered a shot timer from AMG labs...countless bullshit from that guy, 6 months later. I got an email at one point telling me that the "components were OOS" on the regular model I ordered, but if I upgraded to the other model, he'd have it shipped right away. He included his cell # in the email as well and encouraged reaching out about it.

I was tired of waiting so long with nothing...so I emailed back and called, both saying, I'll pay it, I just want a delivered product. Never heard back either. Lucky for me, my bank showed mercy and let me get my money back even though it was outside of the norm of regular chargeback period.

On the other hand, I bet those here who dealt with scott at liberty optics, will similarly tell you first hand, that a credit card used as the payment method was their only saving for avoiding thousands of dollars of loss.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

the whole "we only accept Zelle because paypal is bad for 2a" is a shit compromise.

The majority of FFLs, gun shops, and ranges have credit card processing. Its not that hard to figure out.

If they want a non-refundable payment method, that to me is a scam.

Especially in the current world of "we'll ship it when we can, stop asking", no thanks.

Last year, I ordered a shot timer from AMG labs...countless bullshit from that guy, 6 months later. I got an email at one point telling me that the "components were OOS" on the regular model I ordered, but if I upgraded to the other model, he'd have it shipped right away. He included his cell # in the email as well and encouraged reaching out about it.

I was tired of waiting so long with nothing...so I emailed back and called, both saying, I'll pay it, I just want a delivered product. Never heard back either. Lucky for me, my bank showed mercy and let me get my money back even though it was outside of the norm of regular chargeback period.

On the other hand, I bet those here who dealt with scott at liberty optics, will similarly tell you first hand, that a credit card used as the payment method was their only saving for avoiding thousands of dollars of loss.

Caveat emptor