Inflation.......... ?

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

Since 2008? You don't say... <<<<Sarcastic tone

Despite rising costs, oil and gas producers globally are expected to book new records in cash flows and offer the best return on capital employed (ROCE) in 15 years, BMO Capital Markets said in a new report cited by Upstream.

Stronger oil and gas prices will be the key driver of record cash flows in the industry, according to an analysis by BMO Capital Markets of 120 oil and gas firms globally.

Oil And Gas Producers To Break New Cash Flow Records | OilPrice.com

Oil and gas producers are on track to book new records in cash flows this year thanks to high prices

oilprice.com

 

[Emerson0311]

"Over the winter, it wouldn't come as a surprise if some of the developed nations in Europe start to see more serious forms of civil unrest," Soltvedt said.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-09-01/rising-energy-prices-could-fuel-social-unrest-across-europe-this-winter

That is a serious understatement.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

New California law could raise fast-food minimum wage to $22 an hour | CNN Business

In a move the restaurant industry warns could raise fast-food prices, California's governor signed into law a bill creating a "Fast Food Council" to determine standards for pay, hours, and working conditions for the state's fast food workers.

www.cnn.com

 

[babyguppy]

New California law could raise fast-food minimum wage to $22 an hour | CNN Business

In a move the restaurant industry warns could raise fast-food prices, California's governor signed into law a bill creating a "Fast Food Council" to determine standards for pay, hours, and working conditions for the state's fast food workers.

www.cnn.com

make it 1,000 dollars an hour. We can then watch unemployment rise as companies say, fk you, and leave the area.
More price control and break lines a cometh. Elites and politicians want to close independents down and buy their land.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

make it 1,000 dollars an hour. We can then watch unemployment rise as companies say, fk you, and leave the area.
More price control and break lines a cometh. Elites and politicians want to close independents down and buy their land.

There are many things money can not buy

 

[Hobo Hilton]

It's all starting to mount up.....

'It's a slippery slope': Most consumers underestimate monthly subscription costs by at least $100, study says

Most consumers underestimate monthly subscription costs by at least $100. For some, it's worse: It's off by $200 or more, research shows.

www.cnbc.com

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell in an appearance Thursday emphasized the importance of getting inflation down now before the public gets too used to higher prices and comes to expect them as the norm.

Jerome has not addressed the "Free Money".... The "Free Money" will continue to stoke the fires of inflation.

Fed Chair Powell vows to raise rates to fight inflation 'until the job is done'

Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell spoke Thursday with the Cato Institute, a Washington, D.C.-based think tank.

www.cnbc.com

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Remember, the "Bureau of Labor Statistics" is an agency of the US Government. When these numbers came out they reaked of being "politicized"..... The economist, for the past month, have been attempting to paint a rosy picture. Listen to your family, coworkers and "We the People"

Inflation rose more than expected in August as rising shelter and food costs offset a drop in gas prices, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported Tuesday.
The consumer price index, which tracks a broad swath of goods and services, increased 0.1% for the month and 8.3% over the past year. Excluding volatile food and energy costs, CPI rose 0.6% from July and 6.3% from the same month in 2021.
Economists had been expecting headline inflation to fall 0.1% and core to increase 0.3%, according to Dow Jones estimates. The respective year-over-year forecasts were for 8% and 6% gains.

Inflation rose 0.1% in August even with sharp drop in gas prices

The consumer price index for August was expected to decrease 0.1% from the previous month and increase 8% from a year ago, according to Dow Jones.

www.cnbc.com

 

[E. Bryant]

An example of headlines today:

"Stocks tank after higher-than-expected CPI report"

What the fuck was the expected CPI print? Presumably something low end to cause the Fed to reverse course, which seems highly unlikely. Yeah, retail gasoline prices are down, but that's about the only significant drop in prices that matter to the consumer, and even if inflation goes to zero tomorrow, it'd still mean that consumers are paying 25-30% more than two years ago.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Flour Inflation in US Is Worst Ever as Bakers Squeezed by War

(Bloomberg) -- Six months after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine sent wheat prices to a record, the cost for flour and prepared flour mixes is surging by the most ever, putting increasing pressure on already elevated inflation.Most Read from BloombergUS Inflation Tops Forecasts, Cementing Odds of...

ca.finance.yahoo.com

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Am I the only American seeing the "disconnect" between the Government numbers, the news reporters and "We the People" ?

Wholesale inflation declines in August, but prices remain near multi-decade high

The producer price index, which measures inflation at the wholesale level before it reaches consumers, remains at a multi-decade high, the Labor Department said on Wednesday.

www.foxbusiness.com

 

[Bigfatcock]

Am I the only American seeing the "disconnect" between the Government numbers, the news reporters and "We the People" ?

Wholesale inflation declines in August, but prices remain near multi-decade high

The producer price index, which measures inflation at the wholesale level before it reaches consumers, remains at a multi-decade high, the Labor Department said on Wednesday.

www.foxbusiness.com

No. I am of the belief that analyst and MSM are all disconnected from reality, or outright lying. I’ve been saying it for months. The only thing in the market that looks good are the indexes. Everything else has already crashed.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

No. I am of the belief that analyst and MSM are all disconnected from reality, or outright lying. I’ve been saying it for months. The only thing in the market that looks good are the indexes. Everything else has already crashed.

Keeping the indexes up is a high speed / mega computer juggling act. That won't work at the grocery store or the auto repair shop. In a way the "Indexes" are also disconnected.

 

[E. Bryant]

Am I the only American seeing the "disconnect" between the Government numbers, the news reporters and "We the People" ?

Wholesale inflation declines in August, but prices remain near multi-decade high

The producer price index, which measures inflation at the wholesale level before it reaches consumers, remains at a multi-decade high, the Labor Department said on Wednesday.

www.foxbusiness.com

Who are you going to believe - their numbers, or your lying eyes? When they've been making this stuff up for the last 30 years, some occasional disconnect from reality is to be expected.

This chart is catastrophically bad, and yet it's understated by a factor of 2-3x.

I'm 100% convinced that the big whiff on inflation yesterday was due to the elites looking at the drop in gas prices and believing that everything else has followed because that generally how things worked in the past.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Who are you going to believe - their numbers, or your lying eyes? When they've been making this stuff up for the last 30 years, some occasional disconnect from reality is to be expected.

View attachment 7956117

This chart is catastrophically bad, and yet it's understated by a factor of 2-3x.

I'm 100% convinced that the big whiff on inflation yesterday was due to the elites looking at the drop in gas prices and believing that everything else has followed because that generally how things worked in the past.

Watching the disconnect between the "Elites" and "We the People" is turning into an interesting show.

 

[E. Bryant]

Never underestimate the power of normies who just want this whole mess to go away so they can keep pretending that their houses and retirement accounts really tripled in value over the past ten years.

 

[babyguppy]

Never underestimate the power of normies who just want this whole mess to go away so they can keep pretending that their houses and retirement accounts really tripled in value over the past ten years.

Yup, tried to explain to a friend. When your 401K goes up by 1,000; that's not success, when you have contributed 10K.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Costing more to get oil

Offshore Drilling Rates Jump, Could Rise Further To $500,000 Per Day | OilPrice.com

The costs of renting offshore oil and gas rigs have more than doubled over the last two years, and could rise to $500,000 per day, oil company executives claimed on Wednesday

oilprice.com

 

[UKDslayer]

There are many things money can not buy
View attachment 7950237

The riches that I seek are waiting on the other side.

 

[lariat]

Argentina to Hike Interest Rates to 75% as Inflation Nears 100%

(Bloomberg) -- Argentina’s central bank raised its benchmark interest rate Thursday in a bid to prop up its currency and curb inflation nearing 100%.Most Read from BloombergAdobe Near Deal for Online Design Startup Figma, Sources SayRay Dalio Does the Math: Rates at 4.5% Would Sink Stocks by...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Mortgage buyer Freddie Mac reported Thursday that the 30-year rate rose to 6.02% from 5.89% last week. The long-term average rate has more than doubled since a year ago and is the highest it’s been since November of 2008, just after the housing market collapse triggered the Great Recession. One year ago, the rate stood at 2.86%

Mortgage rates hit 6%, first time since 2008 housing crash

WASHINGTON (AP) — Average long-term U.S. mortgage rates climbed over 6% this week for the first time since the housing crash of 2008, threatening to sideline even more homebuyers from a rapidly cooling housing market.

apnews.com

 

[lariat]

‘We have yet to see a peak in food inflation’: Food prices haven't risen so steeply since 1979, with one grocery staple up nearly 40%

Rising grocery prices are hurting lower-income households, says Scott Brave, lead consumer-spending economist at Morning Consult.

www.marketwatch.com

 

[Hobo Hilton]

‘We have yet to see a peak in food inflation’: Food prices haven't risen so steeply since 1979, with one grocery staple up nearly 40%

Rising grocery prices are hurting lower-income households, says Scott Brave, lead consumer-spending economist at Morning Consult.

www.marketwatch.com

A study of history will reveal societies that dealt with the "after results" of nations that forfeited healthy diets. As this recession deepens American's will increase in the number of meals from processed food. Replacing protean with fillers is another road to disaster.

 

[NoDopes]

The food-at-home index, a measure of price changes at the grocery store, increased by 13.5 percent, which is also a 43-year high. Compared to July, the food index rose by 0.8 percent, and the food-at-home index rose by 0.7 percent.

August food inflation jumped by 11.4%, but experts warn the worst is yet to come – NaturalNews.com

The latest inflation report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics shows that food prices once again rose by 11.4 percent year-over-year, and food inflation is now at its highest point since 1979. The Consumer Price Index report for August showed that prices on all items in the United States rose...

www.naturalnews.com

 

[babyguppy]

DEFLATION​

Deflation is the opposite of inflation; it is a contraction in the supply of money and credit.

The effects of deflation result in fewer currency units (dollars) in circulation and an increase in purchasing power of the remaining units. In other words, your dollars will buy more – not less.

As the deflation takes hold, the prices of goods and services will decline, rather than increase. In and of itself, deflation is a good thing; however, when deflation is severe enough, the result would be a catastrophic economic depression.

Any single one, or combination, of the three types of default (credit default, bank failures, asset price collapse) can result in deflation. This happens because of the huge sums of money involved which are subsequently wiped out.

As hobo pointed out.. a little deflation is a GREAT thing... Inflation is a balloon. inflation pumps up the balloon; deflation makes the balloon get smaller. We need a smaller balloon.

Default – Deflation – Depression, by Kelsey Williams. Credit collapse.

Default – Deflation – Depression. The bond market is telling us that a credit collapse, deflation, and economic depression are on the horizon.

survivalblog.com

 

[lariat]

DEFLATION​

Deflation is the opposite of inflation; it is a contraction in the supply of money and credit.

The effects of deflation result in fewer currency units (dollars) in circulation and an increase in purchasing power of the remaining units. In other words, your dollars will buy more – not less.

As the deflation takes hold, the prices of goods and services will decline, rather than increase. In and of itself, deflation is a good thing; however, when deflation is severe enough, the result would be a catastrophic economic depression.

Any single one, or combination, of the three types of default (credit default, bank failures, asset price collapse) can result in deflation. This happens because of the huge sums of money involved which are subsequently wiped out.

As hobo pointed out.. a little deflation is a GREAT thing... Inflation is a balloon. inflation pumps up the balloon; deflation makes the balloon get smaller. We need a smaller balloon.

Default – Deflation – Depression, by Kelsey Williams. Credit collapse.

Default – Deflation – Depression. The bond market is telling us that a credit collapse, deflation, and economic depression are on the horizon.

survivalblog.com

I want to agree, but unfortunately there is no smaller balloon when the debt is as high as it is. When it starts to collapse it will NOT stop. The major HUGE reason is that most of those dollars are electric - they are not physical. You cant hide them under your bed like in times past. Nor can you withdraw them if there is a hold on your account or a bank holiday. To add to this, most US dollars are NOT held in the US - they are held overseas.

To make it worse: Pensions are mostly invested in stocks, bonds and other instruments that are no cash. This means when the dump to the market hits the pensions are insolvent. Deflation doesn't help when pensions can't send you the money.

We are simply at a point with everything so fractionally backstopped with dollars the evaporation and subsequent bank calls will destroy almost everything due to the follow-on effects. This is because almost everyone is in debt of some sort. When extrapolated, it becomes a literal house of cards.

 

[devildog93]

I want to agree, but unfortunately there is no smaller balloon when the debt is as high as it is. When it starts to collapse it will NOT stop. The major HUGE reason is that most of those dollars are electric - they are not physical. You cant hide them under your bed like in times past. Nor can you withdraw them if there is a hold on your account or a bank holiday. To add to this, most US dollars are NOT held in the US - they are held overseas.

To make it worse: Pensions are mostly invested in stocks, bonds and other instruments that are no cash. This means when the dump to the market hits the pensions are insolvent. Deflation doesn't help when pensions can't send you the money.

We are simply at a point with everything so fractionally backstopped with dollars the evaporation and subsequent bank calls will destroy almost everything due to the follow-on effects. This is because almost everyone is in debt of some sort. When extrapolated, it becomes a literal house of cards.

I think you can hide them under your bed to some extent. Land, food, alternative energy sources, a home, ammo, guns, physical goods. Now I am not sure how much any of that will make a difference if things get real bad, but it could give a person/family a head start or at least create a buffer zone. until you can figure out what survival looks like. Leaning on pensions and a 401k is a relatively new thing that I doubt my grandfather would have accepted without quite a bit of skepticism. That generation of ww2 vets would have had a plan B for sure. Probably multiple backup plans involving root cellars, weapons, and anything short of a nuclear fallout shelter like in blast from the past.

One good thing to take from this slow motion collapse is that most of us have been given a chance to shift gears. 2008 should have been a warning. The last few presidents prior to Trump should have been another. Anyone without blinders on has seen all our goods being produced overseas and government taking control of many facets of our life. We knew it was setting up for something, likely not good. No one knew what it was exactly going to look like, but it wasn't going to be in the favor of commoners. Just 2 and 3 generations back our families learned the lessons of the depression and the aftermath of ww2 and how to come out the other side. We have been given time to short up our households and do what little we can to steer the outcome. More people have returned to the woods and fled the cities in my lifetime. People are learning the survival skills again. I have hope we will come out the other side stronger.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

I want to agree, but unfortunately there is no smaller balloon when the debt is as high as it is. When it starts to collapse it will NOT stop. The major HUGE reason is that most of those dollars are electric - they are not physical. You cant hide them under your bed like in times past. Nor can you withdraw them if there is a hold on your account or a bank holiday. To add to this, most US dollars are NOT held in the US - they are held overseas.

To make it worse: Pensions are mostly invested in stocks, bonds and other instruments that are no cash. This means when the dump to the market hits the pensions are insolvent. Deflation doesn't help when pensions can't send you the money.

We are simply at a point with everything so fractionally backstopped with dollars the evaporation and subsequent bank calls will destroy almost everything due to the follow-on effects. This is because almost everyone is in debt of some sort. When extrapolated, it becomes a literal house of cards.

I am picking up on some "hushed conversations" of some financially savvy people.... Private individuals, not the talking heads on CNBC.....
A concern that is showing on their financial radar is having a mortgage company / bank "call in the loan" on some of their property. These people are selling off property they bought and turned into AIRBNB places in order to gather cash to pay off the mortgage on the home they reside in.
Anyone else hearing such things ?

Call Loan Definition

A call loan is a loan that the lender can demand to be repaid at any time—similar to a callable bond, but in this case, the lender has the power.

www.investopedia.com

 

[NoDopes]

What kind of mortgage loan allows a "call", particularly on a primary residence?

Inflation, deflation...
So, how much ammo and how much gold are we talking here?

 

[Hobo Hilton]

What kind of mortgage loan allows a "call", particularly on a primary residence?

Inflation, deflation...
So, how much ammo and how much gold are we talking here?

Evidently, it is in the small print that very few read.
To those following this thread, ammo and gold are the least of their worries.

 

[RUTGERS95]

very very few loans are issued like that so it's not a concern to overall re mkt.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

very very few loans are issued like that so it's not a concern to overall re mkt.

Obviously a concern to the folks I communicated with. Enough concern for them to sell off property and pay off the mortgage on the home they live in. Again, I have little knowledge of mortgages being called in. However if a bank is in dire straits they will do everything possible to stay afloat. History repeating.
Just one more thing to ponder.

It may sound harsh to demand full repayment, but the alternative would force lenders to sue every month for the life of the loan when you fail to make a payment, which would not be a preferred outcome. For this reason, acceleration clauses are present in all contracts involving repayment.

What Is A Mortgage Acceleration Clause?

A mortgage acceleration clause means that your entire mortgage balance becomes due if you default on your repayment. Learn more about the acceleration clause.

www.rocketmortgage.com

 

[RUTGERS95]

Obviously a concern to the folks I communicated with. Enough concern for them to sell off property and pay off the mortgage on the home they live in. Again, I have little knowledge of mortgages being called in. However if a bank is in dire straits they will do everything possible to stay afloat. History repeating.
Just one more thing to ponder.

It may sound harsh to demand full repayment, but the alternative would force lenders to sue every month for the life of the loan when you fail to make a payment, which would not be a preferred outcome. For this reason, acceleration clauses are present in all contracts involving repayment.

What Is A Mortgage Acceleration Clause?

A mortgage acceleration clause means that your entire mortgage balance becomes due if you default on your repayment. Learn more about the acceleration clause.

www.rocketmortgage.com

my only point is it won't have any effect on the mtg or re mkt due to size. We're talking .001% of mtgs written kind of small. For those people that do have them, you get what you paid for and it's foolish to give anyone else that much power over your assets willingly.

 

[NoDopes]

Key note "if you've fallen behind in payments."
Yes, that's a standard clause.
But the banks can't just run around demanding full payments.

 

[lariat]

Key note "if you've fallen behind in payments."
Yes, that's a standard clause.
But the banks can't just run around demanding full payments.

Yes they can. If they write it in and you don’t catch it or dont dispute it, it’s legal. I always -like always - ask about pre-payment and callable clauses. Take that shit out or we aren’t doing business. Most credit unions play ball, others I have had to give the boot to. That’s business, and the banks need to understand they hold very few of the cards they think they do.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Yes they can. If they write it in and you don’t catch it or dont dispute it, it’s legal. I always -like always - ask about pre-payment and callable clauses. Take that shit out or we aren’t doing business. Most credit unions play ball, others I have had to give the boot to. That’s business, and the banks need to understand they hold very few of the cards they think they do.

When dealing with bonds... The term is a "Doomsday Call" or a "Canada Call".... Not sure of the term in the mortgage arena.

 

[Emerson0311]

I want to agree, but unfortunately there is no smaller balloon when the debt is as high as it is. When it starts to collapse it will NOT stop. The major HUGE reason is that most of those dollars are electric - they are not physical. You cant hide them under your bed like in times past. Nor can you withdraw them if there is a hold on your account or a bank holiday. To add to this, most US dollars are NOT held in the US - they are held overseas.

To make it worse: Pensions are mostly invested in stocks, bonds and other instruments that are no cash. This means when the dump to the market hits the pensions are insolvent. Deflation doesn't help when pensions can't send you the money.

We are simply at a point with everything so fractionally backstopped with dollars the evaporation and subsequent bank calls will destroy almost everything due to the follow-on effects. This is because almost everyone is in debt of some sort. When extrapolated, it becomes a literal house of cards.

It’s called the great reset.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

I started working a larger garden area this spring. Some things did well, other's did not. Decided that now would be a good time to take samples of the soil and have it analyzed. When I brought the sample into my local Farm Supply store the lady explained that to send a sample off and have it analyzed would cost $75.00. My off the cuff reply was the last one cost me $35.00. She was understanding.
I paid the fee because I could waste $75.00 in seeds, fertilizer and manure while flying blind as to what the soil needs...
Inflation..... From $35 to $75.
Don't believe the Government Numbers.

 

[NoDopes]

Luster Leaf® Rapitest Soil Test Kit

The Rapitest Soil Test Kit is designed for simplicity of use and accuracy. The soil test kit contains 4 specially designed color comparators – one each for pH (Green), Nitrogen (Purple), Phosphorus (Blue) and Potassium/Potash (Orange). Each comparator has a removable film color chart and color...

www.arbico-organics.com

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Luster Leaf® Rapitest Soil Test Kit

The Rapitest Soil Test Kit is designed for simplicity of use and accuracy. The soil test kit contains 4 specially designed color comparators – one each for pH (Green), Nitrogen (Purple), Phosphorus (Blue) and Potassium/Potash (Orange). Each comparator has a removable film color chart and color...

www.arbico-organics.com

I've used these over the years for small gardens. Seemed to do OK. Garden is much larger this year and in a different location. Building a soil history folder for my homestead as I make improvements. Weed abatement is also high on my list of challenges.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

FedEx on Thursday announced rate hikes and detailed its cost-cutting efforts after the shipping giant warned last week that its fiscal first quarter results were hit by weakening global demand.

FedEx hikes package rates, details cost cutting as demand weakens globally

FedEx announced rate hikes and detailed its cost-cutting efforts after warning last week it was seeing demand weaken globally.

www.cnbc.com

 

[Alpine 338]

Mainstream media keeps spouting off that gas prices are falling. I paid 11¢ more per gallon than I did last week.

 

[lariat]

If this holds it is an unintentional masterstroke by businesses - they have moved their rent costs to the employee without materially increasing their salary to cover the costs that they put off on them.

MSN

 

[Bigfatcock]

If this holds it is an unintentional masterstroke by businesses - they have moved their rent costs to the employee without materially increasing their salary to cover the costs that they put off on them.

MSN

I’ve said many times that businesses are retarded for not allowing remote work. It’s not just rent.

Utilities
Printers
Paper
Pens and pencils
Shit paper
Hand soap
Break rooms
Internet
IT support
Parking

And much more.

 

[E. Bryant]

I’ve said many times that businesses are retarded for not allowing remote work. It’s not just rent.

Utilities
Printers
Paper
Pens and pencils
Shit paper
Hand soap
Break rooms
Internet
IT support
Parking

And much more.

But muh culture. And accountability. Won't you think of all the leadership that knows nothing but "management by walking around"?

I've got about zero interest in working for/with companies or employees that can't figure out remote work. Do you need to be on-site to do your job? Cool - I expect you to be there. Otherwise, get your shit done, communicate with your team members as appropriate (which shockingly doesn't always require a scheduled meeting), and I don't give a fuck if you do that from a beach in Florida or a cave in Kentucky.

 

[babyguppy]

I’ve said many times that businesses are retarded for not allowing remote work. It’s not just rent.

Utilities
Printers
Paper
Pens and pencils
Shit paper
Hand soap
Break rooms
Internet
IT support
Parking

And much more.

Then the 'boss' can't look across his kingdom at the serfs working for him. Ego's need stroking

 

[babyguppy]

I went shopping yesterday at the supermarket. I now have buyer's remorse.

 

[Bigfatcock]

But muh culture. And accountability. Won't you think of all the leadership that knows nothing but "management by walking around"?

I've got about zero interest in working for/with companies or employees that can't figure out remote work. Do you need to be on-site to do your job? Cool - I expect you to be there. Otherwise, get your shit done, communicate with your team members as appropriate (which shockingly doesn't always require a scheduled meeting), and I don't give a fuck if you do that from a beach in Florida or a cave in Kentucky.

I believe management is afraid that they’ll be exposed for how irrelevant they are.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

I believe management is afraid that they’ll be exposed for how irrelevant they are.

You made me laugh... In the heavy industrial construction world many of the craftsmen preferred to work the 10 hour "Grave Yard" shift because there were no management people on the project. A guy could come on shift, his foreman would tell him what he needed to accomplish and the craftsman would get it done without any interruptions..... Those shifts paid a bit more and time went by fast. Personally, they were safer also because there was never a safety guy (with only book learning thoughts) trying to tell a journeyman how to do his job. Example- Being told to hook up both 6' lanyards on your harness when you were working 5' above the ground.... LOL

 

[E. Bryant]

I believe management is afraid that they’ll be exposed for how irrelevant they are.

Yep. I was lucky enough to start my career with several middle managers who were promoted to that level because they were so competent. They whipped me into shape pretty good. I'm not sure that happens quite as often nowadays.