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Yeah probably close to it, that's why I am just planning on getting the whole thing and keeping my current AT3/IP set up. No disk changing for me since I only use 2 disk for all the powders I use (which I'd think is probably true for most), and I could run them both at once and have a back up in case something breaks at some point. A few hundred bucks isn't really worth not having all of that if you already have an IP set up. ImoI like what I see but damn $900 is a bit expensive. Looks like just the upgrade for existing Trickler users will still be $600 - $700
I dunno man. In my opinion the worst part about the ST is the 50 other things the unit does instead of just throwing the damn powder quickly and accurately. You know why it needs stats.. so you can keep track of when your 30% overthrows changes to 20%. The IP is like 100% accurate or damn near.. so who even cares. Theres a whole bunch of people on the ST pages that are constantly struggling with all the settings and features.. seems kinda stupid to me. Most people would rather just have something that is simple, reliable, accurate and fast. That's what the IP does.Oh, I'm going to buy one no matter what. Would just like to have some more electronic functionality, especially stats and auto-calibration.
The Achilles heel - or perhaps I should say the shortcoming - is going to be the electronics. Don't get me wrong, I love what I'm seeing, but...
We're using a 1980s Texas Instruments style keypad in 2023? There is so much technology that could be brought to bear on this device to do everything automatically, and have a display with readouts and statistics and a data log and infinite calibrations/loads/etc. like the Supertrickler - or better yet, a touchscreen with specific labels rather than symbols I will have to memorize.
My next prediction (my previous one was no way this is going to be priced < $900) is that somebody will make an aftermarket control mechanism that leverages modern technology and use an iphone or touch display rather than the keypad.
I'm also struggling to understand why the bulk drop doesn't land closer to the target. I presume that's because there's too much variability in the bulk drop to allow it to get closer without causing overages.
I reiterate - don't get me wrong, I love what I'm seeing, I ditched my AT and ST already and can't wait to move to this, but that doesn't mean there's no room for improvement.
It will easily take the top spot and sink ST and AT4. It works exactly as its supposed to. That's whyMan, i was thinking this would be a SuperTrickler / AutoTrickler killer at around $750. At $1,000+ I dont think its gonna have the market traction to kill those off.
It will easily take the top spot and sink ST and AT4. It works exactly as its supposed to. That's why
It's 5 secs fasterIf they were all the same price, then I would tend to agree, but what makes this system worth twice as much as a new ATv4? Please give specific examples.
It works and doesn't overthrow. It just works. Everyone who has the IP set up with at3 now will tell you the same thing. It's not like all the hype that frankly I questioned with the super trickler. There may be a few but anyone willing to pay $500 for an AT4 or $750 for a ST, that works 75% of the time, will pay 900 for a IP full set up that works all the time every time and is so easy to use and also faster. It's a one time expense for a bunch of dudes who spend $.50 - $1.00 per bullet to load and all of them need a $500 scale to work with. Fool around with one that doesn't work regularly and after a few months of that you just aren't interested in doing that crap again, especially if you KNOW there's another option that does in fact work all the time and is easier to clean up to boot. It's really not comparable to those machines and much more comparable to a Promethius in every way honestly.If they were all the same price, then I would tend to agree, but what makes this system worth twice as much as a new ATv4? Please give specific examples.
Why do you keep saying its $900, when we know for a fact its not? He said it will be $995 WITHOUT the breeze shield. I'm betting that most people will need one extra disc also; so I bet its more like $1100 after both of those are added.It works and doesn't overthrow. It just works. Everyone who has the IP set up with at3 now will tell you the same thing. It's not like all the hype that frankly I questioned with the super trickler. There may be a few but anyone willing to pay $500 for an AT4 or $750 for a ST, that works 75% of the time, will pay 900 for a IP full set up that works all the time every time and is so easy to use and also faster. It's a one time expense for a bunch of dudes who spend $.50 - $1.00 per bullet to load and all of them need a $500 scale to work with. Fool around with one that doesn't work regularly and after a few months of that you just aren't interested in doing that crap again, especially if you KNOW there's another option that does in fact work all the time and is easier to clean up to boot. It's really not comparable to those machines and much more comparable to a Promethius in every way honestly.
I like the system I don't mind the keypad think it's a good idea. I do think it should be labeled better. I was a little disappointed in the delay again and the price tag of $995. I watched some videos between this and v4. I do belive this unit is better but not sure it's that much more than v4. I haven't not had any of the v lines I have a rcbs lite that I throw charge then dump on the fx120i and trickle up with a dandy trickler which works great for every load being the same but very slow. At this point just looking for 1 unit and is faster and not sure now between v4 and this one.
We all love the $360 trickler, sure. But you're saying that you couple it with a $650 bulk dropper and a 1980s 10-key and you now have a Prometheus? Stop.It's really not comparable to those machines and much more comparable to a Promethius in every way honestly.
That is a lot of wishful thinking. If this market has shown us anything there will be upgrades and competitors. And I'm glad there is because otherwise we wouldn't have these options. But I would consider this a $1K purchase with a life cycle of about 3-5 years......, it seems that it's going to be built well enough that there won't be too many upgrades.
......if this new setup pretty much alleviates ever upgrading, you're still saving money in the long run.
Indeed. I don't have permission to post the video, but there are 'open source' solutions in the works and getting VERY close...guy said $125 for the parts package, print it at home (two bills if you don't have a printer).That is a lot of wishful thinking. If this market has shown us anything there will be upgrades and competitors.
Are you familiar with how Promethius works? What I said was that it's more comparable to Promethius than the v4 or ST and it isWe all love the $360 trickler, sure. But you're saying that you couple it with a $650 bulk dropper and a 1980s 10-key and you now have a Prometheus? Stop.
Oh I know how it works and I swear that the IP trickler is a complete rip off of Brands design. It’s not made out of brass like the Promethius Trickler but it uses disk just like it.Are you familiar with how Promethius works? What I said was that it's more comparable to Promethius than the v4 or ST and it is
I'm not trying to confuse the price. $1000 then. The price is pretty strong, but all I'm saying is that I don't think it will keep people from buying it and hitting the V4 and ST pretty hard. This is just because the IP actually works as advertised. I just don't think a $250 upcharge from the ST price is going to be prohibitive because it's comparing something that actually works to something doesn't work. (Over throw 20% or more doesn't work in my book).Why do you keep saying its $900, when we know for a fact its not? He said it will be $995 WITHOUT the breeze shield. I'm betting that most people will need one extra disc also; so I bet its more like $1100 after both of those are added.
I have fooled around with the ATv4 and the ST plenty. Are there features that I like on the IP more? YES, the controlled dispensing of the trickler is the magic here. The bulk dump is fine, but nothing revolutionary in my mind. The electronics are fine, but nothing earth shattering and I can see in the videos areas that could already be improved by different code.
I guess the only way to know if this is going to be a market killer is when we see the ST and AT being sold in quantity at a low price like we did with the LabRadar. I haven't seen that happen yet. If this thing were $750 I think you would see a lot of people jumping ship to it.
I think that's a pretty extreme characterization, but you're entitled to your opinion. Hard for me to use words like "rip off" for using a disk . I guess Adam ripped off RCBS then too with a rotating tube? I think it takes much more than that to call it ripping off Brands design but it is more comparable to that than the V4 and ST, which is all I was saying.Oh I know how it works and I swear that the IP trickler is a complete rip off of Brands design. It’s not made out of brass like the Promethius Trickler but it uses disk just like it.
The reason I say ripped off is because I believe Brand has a patten on his Trickler.I think that's a pretty extreme characterization, but you're entitled to your opinion. Hard for me to use words like "rip off" for using a disk . I guess Adam ripped off RCBS then too with a rotating tube? I think it takes much more than that to call it ripping off Brands design but it is more comparable to that than the V4 and ST, which is all I was saying.
At least you actually know what you're talking about and not just spewing bs like the guy I replied to.
Yeah I get what you're saying, but I feel sure that avenue has been explored already and I'm not sure how much of something like that you can patten. Of course I have no clue on patent law but I do know you can't just patent whatever, especially if it's a general way of doing something ect.... so I just don't think there's any case there to be had and I also don't know about the timeline of what patent brand got but they aren't indefinite so who knows. Paul figured out a way to make the disk work with a conventional style dropper and the AD scale, which made the trickler set much much more usable and affordable to the wider market. I mean, the Promethius is awesome, but it's also like 6k. I mean, that just can't last forever and it's been a minute now. I don't know how long it's been out but it's even some years now.The reason I say ripped off is because I believe Brand has a patten on his Trickler.
I see your point. But when they are side by side it’s the exact same thing and works the exact same way. I guess it didn’t throw up anything at the patten office.
So if not rip off it basically the same damn thing. Best way I can explain it.
When I say same thing I’m speaking about the trickler only. Nothing else
“Accurate to the kernel every time” LOLZMy biggest problem with the stupid trickler and the V4 is that they constantly overthrow. I don’t give a shit if it spits a charge out every 5 seconds if over half are over throws. It’s fucking useless. I also see someone mentioning the ladder test. It’s not hard going in and changing it by .whatever you want. It would probably take 5 tries to get each separate charge correct in the first place.
Like someone said above. I don’t know how the new IP set up works yet. But just having my IP trickler it rarely over throws. I think I had one in 50 rounds and took maybe a second longer for each charge. I really hope it does well and does what the videos show.
Because everyone knows what the other two’s original videos showed. From what I remember perfect throws every time in 5 seconds or less. Maybe I’m a little off on the 5 seconds. But you know what I mean.
Thats a fair take.That is a lot of wishful thinking. If this market has shown us anything there will be upgrades and competitors. And I'm glad there is because otherwise we wouldn't have these options. But I would consider this a $1K purchase with a life cycle of about 3-5 years.
It very well may. If it works with the original from the scale and the existing aftermarket surrounds/wind screens, then no biggie. I really like mine that dude made for me with the doors that slide away from each other. It's pretty stable and easy and works well for me so I will just use that most likely depending on what the new one Paul has ultimately costs and how it functions ect.I'm pretty sure Paul's new setup works without buying the windscreen. That's just another option if you want it.
I have that one with the doors and like it a lot.It very well may. If it works with the original from the scale and the existing aftermarket surrounds/wind screens, then no biggie. I really like mine that dude made for me with the doors that slide away from each other. It's pretty stable and easy and works well for me so I will just use that most likely depending on what the new one Paul has ultimately costs and how it functions ect.
Yes, sir. I realize that IP borrowed the disk design. I get what you are saying.Are you familiar with how Promethius works? What I said was that it's more comparable to Promethius than the v4 or ST and it is
Yes you lease it but have the option to outright purchase it.There's a guy I shoot with sometimes at my club who owns a Prometheus (not leased or whatever the deal is).
The last time I saw him he said he had just got an IP trickler... and hadn't used his Prometheus since.
He said something to the effect of having to get rid of the Prometheus before getting stuck with it.
Yes you lease it but have the option to outright purchase it.
I own mine.
Well no that much.See, that's kind of why ~$1000 for a fancy powder dropper isn't really that crazy...
From what I understand, a Prometheus costs about the same as a new 4x4 lol.
If brand patented it he could sue for patent infringement. Which is why I’m guessing he did not patent it.The reason I say ripped off is because I believe Brand has a patten on his Trickler.
I see your point. But when they are side by side it’s the exact same thing and works the exact same way. I guess it didn’t throw up anything at the patten office.
So if not rip off it basically the same damn thing. Best way I can explain it.
When I say same thing I’m speaking about the tricklers only. Nothing else
If brand patented it he could sue for patent infringement. Which is why I’m guessing he did not patent it.
Does it say patent pending on the side of his machine?
I know, a guy in the industry, who definitely has gone to the trouble to patent several of his devices
No but if I remember correctly discussing it with him he said it was.If brand patented it he could sue for patent infringement. Which is why I’m guessing he did not patent it.
Does it say patent pending on the side of his machine?
I know, a guy in the industry, who definitely has gone to the trouble to patent several of his devices
Oh god ok grammar naziThank you for spelling "patent" correctly.
If brand patented it he could sue for patent infringement. Which is why I’m guessing he did not patent it.
Does it say patent pending on the side of his machine?
I know, a guy in the industry, who definitely has gone to the trouble to patent several of his devices
I got an email last week that my Super Trickler was ready to ship after waiting 3 mos. from the order date. I politely told him I was going to cancel and go a different route (ie this new offering from IP), so it killed that one ST sale for sure.Why do you keep saying its $900, when we know for a fact its not? He said it will be $995 WITHOUT the breeze shield. I'm betting that most people will need one extra disc also; so I bet its more like $1100 after both of those are added.
I have fooled around with the ATv4 and the ST plenty. Are there features that I like on the IP more? YES, the controlled dispensing of the trickler is the magic here. The bulk dump is fine, but nothing revolutionary in my mind. The electronics are fine, but nothing earth shattering and I can see in the videos areas that could already be improved by different code.
I guess the only way to know if this is going to be a market killer is when we see the ST and AT being sold in quantity at a low price like we did with the LabRadar. I haven't seen that happen yet. If this thing were $750 I think you would see a lot of people jumping ship to it.
I got an email last week that my Super Trickler was ready to ship after waiting 3 mos. from the order date. I politely told him I was going to cancel and go a different route (ie this new offering from IP), so it killed that one ST sale for sure.
Regarding other comments:
It will work with the original breeze shield that came with the scale, but the top is flimsy so either the Area 419 top, or the IP one-piece shield are going to be better (but not required).
I was told by Paul that the units will come ready for either the keypad OR smart phone app control.
The tricklers come with 3 disks that cover a large majority of all the powders.
It will not do pre-programmed ladder test throws, per phone conversation with the designer.
Looks like it just takes a IP trickler. This looks very interestingIndeed. I don't have permission to post the video, but there are 'open source' solutions in the works and getting VERY close...guy said $125 for the parts package, print it at home (two bills if you don't have a printer).
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