"Developing life skills" is right at the top of the list of why I and most other people spend some of our leisure money and time participating in shooting sports.
Yessireebob…....
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PRS Talk Innovation killing the spirit?
- Thread starter jcwarrior87
- Start date
"Developing life skills" is right at the top of the list of why I and most other people spend some of our leisure money and time participating in shooting sports.
Yessireebob…....
Why don’t you attend a match and see for yourself? You might be pleasantly surprised at the reality versus what you read on the interwebs.
So much of the complaining and desire for change is coming from people who have obviously never actually attended a match and are basing their complaints or desire for change on what they have read or seen on U-tube.
If you actually take what you have and go shoot a small local match, it is very likely that you will find the experience is translateable to other shooting disciplines. I know for a fact that all of my rifle shooting has benefitted from practicing and participating in local matches. For every odd stage that might allow for free recoil or use of a tripod, there are many more that require quick transitions, good fundamentals and ability to quickly acquire and engage targets. If that is not translatable to real life for you, then you’re doing it wrong.
In the end though (and I’ll repeat it yet again) it’s just a game. A game that requires skill, talent and practice. And no, dumbing it down or making a myriad of new rules so that everyone has an equal chance of being competitive (meaning winning in their minds) will not draw more shooters nor make it better. It will, however make the Marxist’s very happy that their reach extends nearly everywhere.
Agreed.
I also can't help but thinking, in the context of a thread where some are basically complaining about how there's not a place in PRS for beginners to win matches right out of the gate, one important thing to learn about life is that in the long run it's better to focus in improving yourself than on comparing yourself to others.
Competition is fun, beating others at a game even more so, but there will always be someone who's better at something than you are, and even if it seems like you're top of the heap, it won't last forever.
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It's been said before but you need to get the hell out there and shoot some PRS club matches so that you can chime in with some level of perspective grounded in REALITY.
Jus sayin"
I'm not new to the shooting sports, matches or competitions. Pre children I shot 15-20K rounds a year , I had 3-4 match rifles, spent 25-30 hours a week reloading or practicing... I get what you are saying. However, competing againt pros who make this thier job or have the excessive cash at their disposal to contribute 15-25K a year, inordinant amount of time, 40 hours a week, to being better - is something the guy just wating to play the game can't compete with. I think that's what is kinda imersed in the original post. A family guy who has a hobbie a little free time and some disposable income might be more than challenged to be competitive. I think in the end if we give an honest effort and dedicate some time for practicing, spend some cash, we'd like to be competitive. All I'm saying is the production class comes close to doing this... close.
I will say there is a video out there my son watched that had a guy competing against those with all the gadgets and $8K sticks... he had to MacGiver a shooting rest from a soft rifle case/ drag bag... and held his own at that stage... hell thats encouraging....
Fair enough... I'm just offering my opinion as things appear from where I sit now... from what I can tell club matches for me will be no less than a half day to a full day drive but I'm gonna do my best to give this a shot...
Guys like you and I will NEVER win against the pros, no matter the rules. You're seriously deluded if you think otherwise.
But just in case I will give you an example from my past (NRA and CMP service rifle): the Army Marksmanship Unit. The AMU has dominated the sport of service rifle since before I first shot the sport (2001). It doesn't get any more professional than the AMU. They aren't "sponsored", it isn't a "side job" for them like most of the PRS "pros". The AMU service rifle team (and all of their other teams) are EMPLOYED to do two things: compete and train other soldiers. They have (compared to every one else) unlimited budgets, time, and facilities to train and practice. They have their own gunsmith shop. They have their own ammo production facility for fucks sake.
And you know what? NOBODY who competes in service rifle whines, bitches, or complains about the AMU wiping the floor with everyone wherever they go including Camp Perry (CMP nationals) and Camp Atterbury (NRA nationals). And that all in the context of a sport where the average joe can easily afford rifles and gear just as good as the best that the AMU has.
So no, no amount of rule tinkering or gear constraints is going to narrow your gap to the top. It just won't and it never will. The sooner you abandon that fantasy and just go compete for the joy of it, the happier you will be.
That’s all that I am, and I placed 2nd overall in my region in the club series and 32nd in the National finale last year.
Full on non-tactical dad-bod, insurance desk jockey, Rubik’s cube solving, former photography enthusiast. No sponsors, no military background, nada. Just an ordinary dude going to matches and practicing.
Oh, and I only use one bag at matches too .?
My goal is to never destroy what the top work for, but to figure out goals or stepping stones to help one stay engaged. I will use my example of uspsa, (I will admit I am a shitty pistol shooter) but I like that I can show up to a match and know where I place against the other d shooters and where I need to improve, I can look at the spots they beat me at. Plus it is always fun to razz the better class shooters. Keeps me wanting to go back.
This post has never been about taking from those that put the time energy and money, but helping to do something that helps keep the newer shooters engaged. A step to chase. I find with people I teach it is easier to give them small steps to reach to keep the engage rather than making them have huge goals that seem unattainable.
Remember I am all about growing the sport and making it better.
Motivation can be intrinsic or extrinsic (is that even a word LOL). Those with intrinsic motivation do well and grow regardless of the rules they play under. Those with the opposite almost always end up quitting in dissatisfaction because there's always some perceived external obstacle to "success"
I shoot pistol, 3-gun/2-gun along with started shooting the local rifle matches this last year. Regardless of what division/classification I shoot I always see how I do against those better than me. My goal is to improve my skills with the time and equipment I have. I look to squad with the better shooters to learn and ask questions. If we want to grow the sport then we should look to go out of our way to help the newer shooters shoot with whatever they have. Teach them to compete with themselves to improve and have fun. There will always be people who do not come back because they thought they were better than they actually were and their egos won’t allow them to admit it.
I think to some extent this perspective will just set you up for disappointment.
If you go in to it with the expectation that you should be able to win or place well at matches right out of the gate, before you've even been to a match and understand how much of doing well is dependent on mastery of a wide range of skills, and how little is really about expensive gear, you will be disappointed. It will take a while to develop the skill sets necessary to do well at PRS, even if you're a beginner with an unlimited budget for gear. In fact, the guy who has less to spend but is more dedicated to practice will improve more quickly and score better than the guy with a bottomless checkbook who thinks he can buy points with expensive equipment.
I will admit that it would be nice to see PRS/NRL institute divisions at some point, similar to the ones 3GN uses (which are less complicated than USPSA).
For example, the 3GN divisions are: Amateur, Marksman, High Marksman, Expert, Semi-Pro, and Pro; and are based on scores shooting specific classifiers.
The thing is, this requires more work on the part of the parent organization (and individual clubs than we've seen in the past from PRS, and likely more funding support from shooters as well. Organizing a system of classes and the qualifiers need to place everyone, and then keeping track of all of that, is not an easy thing for a relatively small (and new) organization to do. And while I admit it would be nice to see my standings within a class and to be able to work to improve my class ranking, that sort of thing is not why I shoot and so is not a prerequisite for my participation. If it were I'd be doing something else.
Classes/Divisions may be part of the larger plan for the folks who recently took over running the series, but if so I would imagine they have some work to do before they're at a point where they make it happen, and so if it is something they're considering I wouldn't expect to hear about it for quite a while. If you want to see classifier based divisions in PRS the series management is much more likely to consider input from someone who's involved in shooting and running matches than from a non-participant.
This is exactly what happens at the club series matches I've been to. The more experienced guys are always trying to help out the newer shooters, with everything from helping with DOPE, stage planning, wind calls and corrections, to lending gear up to even the use of a rifle and ammo.
I've honestly never seen a more welcoming group of shooters.
Sorry, but that is all a bunch of hooey. In any given match, the results are published for all stages for all shooters. What more do you need to tell you where you need to improve? As 308 said above, those that are serious and truly want to improve have all they need to do so. If it’s only about where you place, you’ll likely not last, but you can easily see where you stand with respect to every other shooter in the match.
Remember, it’s all about the children. Think about the children. If I say it is so at the end of every statement then it must be so.
That is very encouraging and refreshing... more of this information needs to make it out there...
Win.... ha! My expectations arn't unrealistic. Somehow my words havn't revealed the meaning of my opinions...
I may have misunderstood what you mean by "being competitive." I took it to mean placing well (at or near the top) at a given match. I guess misunderstanding is always a danger when communicating in text!
Being competitive for me isn't winning or even placing well... there are too many variables there... being competitive for me is at any given time (If I've made the sacrafices) there's a chance... I'm not going to be left behind due to lack of anything else other than my lack of effort or commitment. Clear as mud ? ;-)
Good on you and your club.... you touched on a great point... lack of awareness is real. The train is moving fast is an understatement...
Along these same lines, our club runs informal “practice sessions” every month, with a similar approach to helping new people get used to their rifles, learn their dope out to 1000 yards, learn how to use their scope (or if their scope is actually capable and repeatable), and all sorts of other help. We actually get many more people at these practice sessions than we do at our matches currently. About one out of ten keep coming and eventually start coming to matches. Others are just happy to be able to tell their buddies that they made intentional hits at 1000.
Hey @reubenski
We likely know each other, or at least have mutual shooting friends in your club. You shooting Raton in a couple weeks?
I agree with you 100% with the above, but what you quoted (my post), it really didn't answer my question. I've mentioned it before in other posts, but some of the stuff we are seeing in matches now, whether a club match, NRL, or PRS is getting ridiculous. It seems it's becoming more previlant as time goes on in many matches. I'm not talking about the Barricades, Tank Traps, etc., But the silly stuff that no matter if in real combat, zombie apocalypse, hunting, varmint, or plinking, etc., a normal person would not take the shot, knowing it would be high probability they would have a missed shot, and or waste of ammo. Not only do the circus act props turn me off, it is turning many new shooters away from the sport. It's to the point many of my friends and I refer to it as Special Olympics. After a match last year, where there was some really silly things the match director had us shoot off of, we started joking, with serious overtones, that we should just boycott shooting the silly stages at these matches, just skip them, and maybe the MD's would get the idea that people really don't like them.
We likely know each other, or at least have mutual shooting friends in your club. You shooting Raton in a couple weeks?
I agree with you 100% with the above, but what you quoted (my post), it really didn't answer my question. I've mentioned it before in other posts, but some of the stuff we are seeing in matches now, whether a club match, NRL, or PRS is getting ridiculous. It seems it's becoming more previlant as time goes on in many matches. I'm not talking about the Barricades, Tank Traps, etc., But the silly stuff that no matter if in real combat, zombie apocalypse, hunting, varmint, or plinking, etc., a normal person would not take the shot, knowing it would be high probability they would have a missed shot, and or waste of ammo. Not only do the circus act props turn me off, it is turning many new shooters away from the sport. It's to the point many of my friends and I refer to it as Special Olympics. After a match last year, where there was some really silly things the match director had us shoot off of, we started joking, with serious overtones, that we should just boycott shooting the silly stages at these matches, just skip them, and maybe the MD's would get the idea that people really don't like them.
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I've read about clubs doing regularly scheduled service rifle clinics and from what I remember their conversion rate is pretty much the same.
Humans are humans...…..
I'd like to see the teaching aspect be standardized. More to see basics like using a sling how to get good dope and correct it. How to use the scope from set up to on the firing line. Wind formulas and all the mental tools that are needed. The actual shooting done with a video camera to show the mistakes the shooter makes will correlate with the hits on target.
The hits the size of the group or the speed of engagement all rely on proper training of very basic principals.
The people thinking they will go from couch to event and dominate a match lol way too funny. The best shots I have been fortunate to know always faced the biggest competitor and that is themselves. If your out there to beat so and so your missing it. When I won my first sporting clays state championship I was outside teaching my girlfriend's youngest how to shoot a double at the #5 on the skeet field. I had no idea I won because I felt I shot like crap. Little did I know I shot less crappy than everyone else that day.
While trying to get #4 I felt I was dominate that day. I finished 2nd to a good friend that was in my squad. We had no idea I cleaned every tough station and dropped a few singles. He didn't miss any of the ice cream shots and dropped 1 less through the hard stations.
The hits the size of the group or the speed of engagement all rely on proper training of very basic principals.
The people thinking they will go from couch to event and dominate a match lol way too funny. The best shots I have been fortunate to know always faced the biggest competitor and that is themselves. If your out there to beat so and so your missing it. When I won my first sporting clays state championship I was outside teaching my girlfriend's youngest how to shoot a double at the #5 on the skeet field. I had no idea I won because I felt I shot like crap. Little did I know I shot less crappy than everyone else that day.
While trying to get #4 I felt I was dominate that day. I finished 2nd to a good friend that was in my squad. We had no idea I cleaned every tough station and dropped a few singles. He didn't miss any of the ice cream shots and dropped 1 less through the hard stations.
There is a complete disconnect between the number of complaints from people who actually shoot PRS style matches and those who don't.
It seems like the majority of the complaints come from people who have never shot a match and only see things on the internet.
Therefore, I propose that if you are to start a PRS complaining thread you have to list how many PRS type matches you have shot. If you have not shot any your thread gets deleted.
I am a married guy with no kids and a good job. I have more money than time and like to buy lots of gucci stuff. I will start to shoot better when I am able to go from shooting 1,500 rounds/year to 5,000+ rounds/year. Those who think they can buy points are deluded.
It seems like the majority of the complaints come from people who have never shot a match and only see things on the internet.
Therefore, I propose that if you are to start a PRS complaining thread you have to list how many PRS type matches you have shot. If you have not shot any your thread gets deleted.
I am a married guy with no kids and a good job. I have more money than time and like to buy lots of gucci stuff. I will start to shoot better when I am able to go from shooting 1,500 rounds/year to 5,000+ rounds/year. Those who think they can buy points are deluded.
I agree completely and pretty much said just exactly that in my post above (and here below):
I come a state without PRS or NRL events. I had heard about a match on the eastern part of the state August of last year and signed up. No idea what to expect. Took my adequate rifle to the event with ammo and a sock with rice.
I was welcomed with open arms and had guys falling over themselves to help me out. One gentleman who won the overall at the end of the year...has all the gear etc was peppered with about 50 questions from me. He was very glad to help along with many of the other top shooters. He borrowed me gear and shared calls etc.
I ended up shooting way better than I expected and they were all happy the rookie had fun. I will be shooting all 6 events this year and most likely a few of the border war events.
PRS is the most welcoming shooting sport I have ever participated in.
There were a lot of weird stages and my first ever stage was a suspended 4x8 on chains pulling an anchor between shots. It was challenging unique and fun.
I personally think we shouldn’t be worried about making things fun or even with equipment etc. What the sport should be concentrating on is bringing guys like me out to the events.
I am bringing two new guys into the sport this year. Both of them shoot a bunch like me but never heard of PRS. Maybe that is more important than worrying about equipment gear and leveling the playing field?
So to sum up: I don’t think innovation is killing the sport. What may be slowing down the growth is lack of new recruitment. Maybe at the big events with prize tables they should set aside a couple prizes for guys that have brought a rookie shooter? So for each new shooter you bring you get a chance in a drawing? That may help
I was welcomed with open arms and had guys falling over themselves to help me out. One gentleman who won the overall at the end of the year...has all the gear etc was peppered with about 50 questions from me. He was very glad to help along with many of the other top shooters. He borrowed me gear and shared calls etc.
I ended up shooting way better than I expected and they were all happy the rookie had fun. I will be shooting all 6 events this year and most likely a few of the border war events.
PRS is the most welcoming shooting sport I have ever participated in.
There were a lot of weird stages and my first ever stage was a suspended 4x8 on chains pulling an anchor between shots. It was challenging unique and fun.
I personally think we shouldn’t be worried about making things fun or even with equipment etc. What the sport should be concentrating on is bringing guys like me out to the events.
I am bringing two new guys into the sport this year. Both of them shoot a bunch like me but never heard of PRS. Maybe that is more important than worrying about equipment gear and leveling the playing field?
So to sum up: I don’t think innovation is killing the sport. What may be slowing down the growth is lack of new recruitment. Maybe at the big events with prize tables they should set aside a couple prizes for guys that have brought a rookie shooter? So for each new shooter you bring you get a chance in a drawing? That may help
speaking on recruiting...i cost a new shooter some money this past weekend lol
ive offered up my AI at club matches for any new shooters for probably...going on 2 yrs now...no one has ever taken the offer...AIAT, all the way rigged out, just supply 308 or 6.5creed ammo...its had various scopes, but currently it has a kahles 525i on top
on sunday, a new shooter finally took the offer...he has a rifle being built currently, but was sidelined waiting on that to be finished...he showed up and shot, hit targets...including connecting on a 10" plate at 1k, having never shot past 450 yds he said
i think it was maybe 24 hrs later, he posted he already had a new kahles on the way and was chompin at the bit for his rifle to be completed lol hook. line. sinker.
on top of that 4 out of the 6 stages were "no bag, sling only" and really fast times...probably one of the hardest hit % matches ive shot in 2-3 yrs...only the rooftops and a prone stage allowed a bag
and the top 5 shooters were basically the same top 5 from the overall ranks last year (minus 1 who wasnt at the match), go figure lol
ive offered up my AI at club matches for any new shooters for probably...going on 2 yrs now...no one has ever taken the offer...AIAT, all the way rigged out, just supply 308 or 6.5creed ammo...its had various scopes, but currently it has a kahles 525i on top
on sunday, a new shooter finally took the offer...he has a rifle being built currently, but was sidelined waiting on that to be finished...he showed up and shot, hit targets...including connecting on a 10" plate at 1k, having never shot past 450 yds he said
i think it was maybe 24 hrs later, he posted he already had a new kahles on the way and was chompin at the bit for his rifle to be completed lol hook. line. sinker.
on top of that 4 out of the 6 stages were "no bag, sling only" and really fast times...probably one of the hardest hit % matches ive shot in 2-3 yrs...only the rooftops and a prone stage allowed a bag
and the top 5 shooters were basically the same top 5 from the overall ranks last year (minus 1 who wasnt at the match), go figure lol
Fake news! This couldn't possibly be true. I've had numerous people who've never shot a match tell me that if you take away all the bags, the top guys will finish terribly!
That is a phenomenal idea. Both the first timer and the person who brought them get in the drawing. SPONSORS are you listening?
I’d tag them all but can’t remember all the usernames right now.
Exactly. This benefits everyone...the sport by increasing shooters, sponsors, veteran shooters and the new guys they bring. New guy comes away from the match hooked telling his buddies he had fun at the shoot and came away with a “insert name here” piece of gear that is way better than anything he currently runs.
His buddies then think...what do I have to lose these events aren’t that scary...I’m going to a match.
Now he has someone to drive with to the events!
His buddies then think...what do I have to lose these events aren’t that scary...I’m going to a match.
Now he has someone to drive with to the events!
Hi,
Sheldon can you please expand on as to why you mentioned are the sponsors listening? What do you think they should do in regards to this?
Doesn't the match director dictate the prize table?
I was told in one thread sometimes last year that myself as a manufacturer I could not dictate who my prize offering went to because someone would claim bias and for that reason the MD was responsible for dictating how prizes were handled.
Sincerely,
Theis
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A sponsor can easily tell a match director to give the prize to a certain category, all it takes is a conversation. Follow that up with some Facebook promotional posts letting everyone know about the raffle and you be shocked how many new people would be dragged out to try the sport.
@THEIS, to follow up on what @Sheldon N mentioned, the matches we put on, we had several sponsors specify where they wanted their prize donation(s) to go. For example, we had a few say 50% of their donations go on the prize table, the other 50% go to the RO's. We have had donations go to top LE/Mil shooter, top Junior shooter, and twice we have given a custom rifle, or complete rifle build to an new up-coming shooter that showed remarkable sportsmanship during the match, even though they were lacking in equipment and experience.
Also want to mention, we make it a point to reward the RO's who volunteer for our matches, as they truely are volunteer's. Most put in a remarkable amount of time, resources, and even donate equipment, steel targets, etc. Most matches they are never paid a cent. The two national level matches we put on, a lucky RO or two, came away with a rifle as a token of appreciation. There are some companies that go above and beyond to reward RO's such as H-S Precision, Huber Triggers, Applied Ballistics, Traust Shooting Bags, Bison Tactical, Patriot Valley Arms, etc. As you've probably seen in other threads, this has caused some drama with the entitled establishment, but without the RO's these matches wouldn't be what they are.
1) A lot of people care, particularly those who are humble enough to admit they don't know it all and yet smart enough to recognize a valuable resource. How can you guarantee you know his philosophy when you don't who I'm talking about, probably have never known him, and what we/he was referring to in our private discussion that you never heard? How can you know his life experiences that developed his philosophy? How can you know if/how he is adjusting his philosophy to fit PRS type sports? I actually agree with you, however much I disagree with your arrogance, that his philosophy doesn't matter because all I was referencing him for was how heavy rifles were he actually used in the line of duty and what he preferred his duty gun to weigh. How realistic or unrealistic elements of this sport/game are is exactly relevant considering this: I made the point that I can't think of anywhere you can find people intentionally weighting short action rifles over 20 lbs--more specifically hunters and servicemen--except for in this GAME. Someone countered that they most servicemen use 20lb rifles and that they preferred it when that is not what I've first and second hand seen.
2) Life Skills: hunting and marksmanship. Whats wrong with just this? Hunting is arguable the best thing you can ever do with a child, besides raising them in the Lord, to teach them the cycle of life, stewardship, self-resilience, perseverance, reward for toil, toughness, respect for life, responsibility associated with power, etc, etc, etc. Marksmenship is a prerequisite for most of the above and is/was our heritiage; a worthy pursuit in itself. And if others agree with that sentiment, then a rifle weight limit would not hurt anyone and yet allow everyone to continue playing the game while benefiting everyone with better fundamental MMS. I think this all aligns very well with the original intentions of most PRS shooters; not just a game, but a game that made them better hunters and marksmen. How does 20+lb short action rifles help us become better hunters and marksmen? I don't think it does. The only thing I see it doing is making the game easier. If I'm the minority on these points so be it, but I think they are relevant enough to consider.
@clyancey if you're referencing my post I did not state that most use a 20lb gun. I was referencing the M40A5 spec which states it weighs 16.5lbs and the AXMC which is used by several nation's militaries. My AXMC weighs 19lbs with a steel barrel. 17lbs with a carbon. My comp guns weighs 15.5.
If you were not referencing our posts, carry on. Just wanted to clarify so that there was no confusion.
If you were not referencing our posts, carry on. Just wanted to clarify so that there was no confusion.
Honestly, the weight of a rifle would be very hard to regulate, and controversial. When I say controversial, who decides the weight of said rifle? Will it be 13.5, 15, or 17-lbs? Will that be with or without scope? With or without loaded magazine? With or without suppressor? Who would make that decision? What happens if PRS chooses 15-lbs, and the NRL chooses 18-lbs? Then you're forcing people to choose sides so to speak.
Then there's the people like me, who already have several rifle builds. All built to be similar in ergonomics, and my preference on how it balances in my hands. Common barrel contours, same stocks, actions, scope etc. I never considered weight as a primary factor, even though my rifles would be considered heavy by some. I'm in good shape, live at 8200-ft in elevation, and would have no problems hauling one of my match rifles with me in a hunting senerio. Hell, I haul them, plus a heavy pack loaded with ammo in field style matches like what Competition Dynamics puts on, walking, jogging, running several miles.
Never weighed my rifles but assume they are in the 17 to 18-lbs range with scope. So, someone decides match rifles over 16-lbs are not allowed. Myself and hundreds others now need to rebarrel, or some how reduce the weight, or purchase another match rifle to meet the rule. I can tell you, that would go over like a lead balloon.
Then there's the people like me, who already have several rifle builds. All built to be similar in ergonomics, and my preference on how it balances in my hands. Common barrel contours, same stocks, actions, scope etc. I never considered weight as a primary factor, even though my rifles would be considered heavy by some. I'm in good shape, live at 8200-ft in elevation, and would have no problems hauling one of my match rifles with me in a hunting senerio. Hell, I haul them, plus a heavy pack loaded with ammo in field style matches like what Competition Dynamics puts on, walking, jogging, running several miles.
Never weighed my rifles but assume they are in the 17 to 18-lbs range with scope. So, someone decides match rifles over 16-lbs are not allowed. Myself and hundreds others now need to rebarrel, or some how reduce the weight, or purchase another match rifle to meet the rule. I can tell you, that would go over like a lead balloon.
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Nothing you present as a problem is a problem. Bunch of other shooting sports have similar limits and regulations.
I don't care if PRS adopts more rules or not. But to say it's very hard to do, bullshit. Even easier when the org is privately owned instead of member owned.
Now you got the controversial part right. But it's either go along, stop going, or start your own sport. 95% will choose the path of least resistance.
The NALRSA events tried this idea...their initial rules came out with something like a 12 or 14lb rifle (rear bag included)...and pretty much everyone’s comp rifle wouldn’t make the weight...you know who pays $200 entry fees to shoot for money? Comp shooters, not average joes with hunting rifles lol they changed the weight limit to 22 or 23 lbs before the first event ever happened because no one could sign up with their comp rifles
I wasn’t going to build another rifle just for those events, but I shot in them when they changed the weight limit...changing the weight got them a bunch of shooters who otherwise would have sat out
These debates about the "spirit" of the game are what turned me off from IDPA. I used to shoot it a lot when I started carrying. I laid out my gear on the belt according to their rules because I knew no better.
Then as I began to learn what worked best for me through training and practice I started asking why I couldn't do it at a match. "It's not practical". "It's not in the spirit of the rules". "You're trying to game it". WTF?
It's not practical to carry my all speedloaders on my off side, like I carry my semi auto mags? Since when?
It's not practical to carry my magazines in horizontal pouches instead of vertical, even though there's CCW mag holders just like that? Since when?
I don't carry appendix but a lot of people do and IDPA has a shit fit about it. Interestingly, USPSA does not.
Who decides what the spirit of the game is? Joyce Wilson's ass-lickers, that's who.
Am I trying to game it? FUCK YEAH I'll game every advantage I can take if I ever end up fighting for my life.
Then as I began to learn what worked best for me through training and practice I started asking why I couldn't do it at a match. "It's not practical". "It's not in the spirit of the rules". "You're trying to game it". WTF?
It's not practical to carry my all speedloaders on my off side, like I carry my semi auto mags? Since when?
It's not practical to carry my magazines in horizontal pouches instead of vertical, even though there's CCW mag holders just like that? Since when?
I don't carry appendix but a lot of people do and IDPA has a shit fit about it. Interestingly, USPSA does not.
Who decides what the spirit of the game is? Joyce Wilson's ass-lickers, that's who.
Am I trying to game it? FUCK YEAH I'll game every advantage I can take if I ever end up fighting for my life.
There is not
There is no weight limit for Service Rifles in NRA and CMP highpower. Note that I capitalized "service rifle" because there is an exact definition of what they are in both rulebooks (NRA and CMP). You don't get to apply your definition of what service rifle is.
There is no weight limit in NRA highpower for Match Rifles and Palma rifles (again capitalized because there is a specific definition of what they are)
There is no weight limit in NRA smallbore.
There is no weight limit in American skeet, trap, or sporting clays rules, all three sports that had bird hunting "intent" a long time ago
There is no weight limit in F-Open
There is a weight limit in F-TR (no idea why)
I would just suggest that you stop tilting at windmills and either play the game the way it is or start a new one.
All interesting points. But I don't see how that counters this simple fact: 20lb+ rifles do not make you a better hunter or marksmen. Its fine that we can disagree whether PRS/NRL etc should care about this, but none the less it is a very real point worth considering if any limitations/rules are being considered at all. Every action and inaction comes with consequences and I think its worth pointing out that the consequence of super heavy rifles.
BTW, I never said I wasn't going to play if rules weren't made. I never complained about it not being "fair" or not having a good chance at prizes etc. I'm content to play for my reasons, particularly given that I can run 13lb gun if I want. I'm less competitive and putting myself at a disadvantage for this game but still worth it for me.
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Hi,
In my experience with "hunters"...most would be more successful at their game from utilization of the below equipment over competing in a precision rifle competition.
But in seriousness....The Steel Safari would be a much better "training" competition for hunters than a PRS match.
Sincerely,
Theis
In my experience with "hunters"...most would be more successful at their game from utilization of the below equipment over competing in a precision rifle competition.
But in seriousness....The Steel Safari would be a much better "training" competition for hunters than a PRS match.
Sincerely,
Theis
Fixed to reflect what you really mean
There are some other facts that you seem to ignore
- Not everybody hunts or cares about hunting. I frankly stopped giving a fuck about it a long time ago.
- Most people who compete in precision rifle events also have other rifles that cover other purposes such as hunting and/or self defense
- Some people who compete in precision rifle don't care about other forms of rifle shooting (probably very few of these)
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To me, precision rifle (edit: competition) boils down to this:
Hitting small targets from silly-far distances, while performing some basic problem volcing (IE: positional, wind reading, etc) under a time limit.
That's it.
No, shooting a ton and competing a ton makes you a better marksman. Running a heavier gun gives you a SLIGHT advantage in hit percentage.
All the guys who are beating you with heavier guns (assuming you are competing) are beating you because they are better than you, not because they have a heavier gun. Except maybe the one or two guys who finished right in front of you.
IMO going from 15lbs to 25lbs is probably worth 2-3 points in a one day match. That’s it. So why are you upset about it?
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