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Insurance is a Scam
- Thread starter Alpine 338
- Start date
You show me a state or bank that will either let you choose if you have insurance or not...I’ll wait.
if I want to drive without insurance, that should be my choice.
if I don’t want to insure my house, again that should be my choice.
you are truly living in a fantasy world.
Doc
Wow..... this is so profoundly stupid that it can only be ascribed to higher education.That is my point, you can rent.
Nobody is forcing people to do these things. That is the point. You want to have a $500,000 home and cannot pay cash, then you will have to finance it and part of that agreement is to have homeowners insurance. You want the service of paying over time? Then ypu will play by their rules.
FYI..... If you can only afford a $500k house then you are a poorer in my book.
You may be good but I'm sure LOTS of people didn't pay in 2020. That and your premiums don't go towards covering a payout on a loss they go towards insurance companies investment portfolio... But they will never tell you "Sorry, our ROI is down so we gotta raise your rates".
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If you pay rent, you are paying insurance. If you use Uber, you are paying insurance. If you use a doctor, barber, daycare, sex therapist or nail salon, you are paying insurance.
Don't know how many "dependents" I have, but I pay the IRS so the government can insure certain demographics...but you don't HAVE to buy insurance.
Don't know how many "dependents" I have, but I pay the IRS so the government can insure certain demographics...but you don't HAVE to buy insurance.
Not buying insurance is for ultra ritch people or people who don’t mind taking a big risk.
think of liability insurance as personal balance sheet protection.
you still need to do your homework and educate yourself on what coverage is available and then you can make a educated decision about what you buy or don’t buy.
think of liability insurance as personal balance sheet protection.
you still need to do your homework and educate yourself on what coverage is available and then you can make a educated decision about what you buy or don’t buy.
Imagine operating a business without insurance. Once the word got out, I'd think you'd have the most slippery floor ever known to mankind.
Are you stupid or just trolling?
YOU CHOOSE TO GET INSURANCE.
I am not saying that
Texas does not require any liability insurance if you have a $50k bond to cover minimum liability requirements in the state for cars (previously stated by another member)........
I did not say that you HAVE to drive without insurance..... I said that you do not need to DRIVE. Please read carefully.
You do not need to insure your house. You DO have to insure the BANKS House that you are living in. Pay it off and then you can cancel your insurance.
Assclowns that would have a mortgage and no insurance with be like I am not paying for this pile of ash....... and the banks would have to eat the rest that you are defaulting on? That sounds like a great economic plan? Are you the one that feed AOC her stupid socialist ideas.
Sounds like you are in a fantasy world and does not understand how basic economics work.
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I guess that having a firm grasp on reality and the way economics work is beyond your comprehension.
The rules are set up because of dipshits that think they are smarter then they really are.
Ok, so you don't think that you need insurance. Do you own your home outright? If not when it burns down and you can't afford to fix it are you going to keep paying on it? Hell, you don't think that you should have to have insurance, why the fuck would you pay for a house you cannot live in? So you default on the home and the bank cannot recoup the money because you fucked it up so bad that it is just land now. They loose money and then they have to charge me more because they are trying to make up for your shit.......
What does that sound like? Oh I know.....EVERY one of that fucking socialist programs that the shit stained democrats in this country are doing...
I bet you voted for Beto........
You sure did put alot of words in my mouth. I pay my insurance. I also own my house and vehicles outright. What i was commenting on was you cavalier attitude about going to rent somewhere if ya dont like it. About on par with learn to code.
Go find an agent who sells for multiple carriers and tell them what you want. Then get out yer checkbook. If you can't get coverage for yer gold and camera's, go rent a phat safety deposit box and stick yer junk in there. Problem solved. Or, as others have said, drop all yer insurance and tell the insurance industry to F off. Put the money you saved on premiums in some electric car tech start up and remind yerself yer gonna be a millionaire one day and won't need insurance anyway...
This is an entertaining thread to read. Having come from working in a family owned body shop, to spending 30 years working for the largest insurance company on the planet, to retiring and going back to work for a large body shop, I find the common misconceptions about insurance to be laughable. The truth is very few people know what insurance is and what it is supposed to do.
For example, there is no such thing as "full coverage", there are too many coverages, variations of coverage and deductibles to say you have full coverage. That's like saying you have a full race cam in your car, there is no such thing unless you clarify what kind of racing and the the max duration, lift and overlap allowed. Typically the term "full coverage" means you have liability, comp and collision coverage, however there are many variations of those coverages, plus many other coverages you can purchase. Many uninformed people buy minimum liability limits and very high deductibles thinking they are saving money. This might be okay if you don't own anything and make minimum wage. Most states have a 15/30/15 liability limit, $15K per person and $30K total per accident for bodily injury and $15K property damage limit. $15K in property damage doesn't cover a Ford Focus today. $15K in bodily injury evaporates faster than acetone on a hot day. Guess where the rest of that money comes from, your house, your business, your guns, your boat, your wages until the damages are paid off.
For you body shop guys here is a reality check. No insurance company anywhere at any time owes you anything. They owe the policy holder and no one else. They may pay a body shop on behalf of the policy holder, but those payments are made based on the language in the policy that the policy holder purchased. They may pay for damages to a third party claimant caused by the policy holder, again those payments are made based on the policy language, not what you want, not what you heard they paid someone else, nothing but the policy language. The payments are based on what is fair and equitable in a market, based on local market conditions, practices and competitiveness. All that being said, some insurance adjusters are poorly trained, have little to no auto repair experience, or are fuck heads that have no business doing that job. Many of them lose track of the objective, which is to settle the claim and move on to the next one. The percentage, however, of fuck heads is exponentially higher on the auto body side of the business.
For the homeowner side of the business, there are so many variations of the homeowners policies and so many addendums it is impossible to know what is covered and what isn't without having the policy in hand. Unfortunately most agents selling the policies have no idea what they are either. Every standard homeowners policy has limits on certain types of coverage or what property is or is not covered. It is very important to read the definitions page and the exclusions page. For example one policy may define gold bullion as currency and specifically exclude or limit coverage for currency, while the same policy may define gold coins as collectibles and cover them up to a certain limit. Almost everything that is limited in the base policy can be added or increased with a rider policy.
One bit of advice for everyone with a home owners policy. Buy the "code upgrade" addendum. This pays for the added cost of construction due to building codes that have changed since the house was built. Your basic homeowner policy only pays to rebuild the house using the same construction methods it was originally built with. I can't tell you how many times I have reviewed claims where the policy holder did not buy that addendum and wound up with $40K or $50K out of pocket to rebuild/repair their house. If you live in a communist state like CA, NJ and NY where the building codes change constantly you could be in for a huge surprise if something happens to your house. One of the worst cases of this I have seen happened in the Lake Tahoe area, the roof was damaged by heavy snow load. The code for structures changed dramatically and the policy holder did not have the addendum to cover the upgrades. He was out of pocket over $120K to comply with the new codes.
For example, there is no such thing as "full coverage", there are too many coverages, variations of coverage and deductibles to say you have full coverage. That's like saying you have a full race cam in your car, there is no such thing unless you clarify what kind of racing and the the max duration, lift and overlap allowed. Typically the term "full coverage" means you have liability, comp and collision coverage, however there are many variations of those coverages, plus many other coverages you can purchase. Many uninformed people buy minimum liability limits and very high deductibles thinking they are saving money. This might be okay if you don't own anything and make minimum wage. Most states have a 15/30/15 liability limit, $15K per person and $30K total per accident for bodily injury and $15K property damage limit. $15K in property damage doesn't cover a Ford Focus today. $15K in bodily injury evaporates faster than acetone on a hot day. Guess where the rest of that money comes from, your house, your business, your guns, your boat, your wages until the damages are paid off.
For you body shop guys here is a reality check. No insurance company anywhere at any time owes you anything. They owe the policy holder and no one else. They may pay a body shop on behalf of the policy holder, but those payments are made based on the language in the policy that the policy holder purchased. They may pay for damages to a third party claimant caused by the policy holder, again those payments are made based on the policy language, not what you want, not what you heard they paid someone else, nothing but the policy language. The payments are based on what is fair and equitable in a market, based on local market conditions, practices and competitiveness. All that being said, some insurance adjusters are poorly trained, have little to no auto repair experience, or are fuck heads that have no business doing that job. Many of them lose track of the objective, which is to settle the claim and move on to the next one. The percentage, however, of fuck heads is exponentially higher on the auto body side of the business.
For the homeowner side of the business, there are so many variations of the homeowners policies and so many addendums it is impossible to know what is covered and what isn't without having the policy in hand. Unfortunately most agents selling the policies have no idea what they are either. Every standard homeowners policy has limits on certain types of coverage or what property is or is not covered. It is very important to read the definitions page and the exclusions page. For example one policy may define gold bullion as currency and specifically exclude or limit coverage for currency, while the same policy may define gold coins as collectibles and cover them up to a certain limit. Almost everything that is limited in the base policy can be added or increased with a rider policy.
One bit of advice for everyone with a home owners policy. Buy the "code upgrade" addendum. This pays for the added cost of construction due to building codes that have changed since the house was built. Your basic homeowner policy only pays to rebuild the house using the same construction methods it was originally built with. I can't tell you how many times I have reviewed claims where the policy holder did not buy that addendum and wound up with $40K or $50K out of pocket to rebuild/repair their house. If you live in a communist state like CA, NJ and NY where the building codes change constantly you could be in for a huge surprise if something happens to your house. One of the worst cases of this I have seen happened in the Lake Tahoe area, the roof was damaged by heavy snow load. The code for structures changed dramatically and the policy holder did not have the addendum to cover the upgrades. He was out of pocket over $120K to comply with the new codes.
Annuities are another big scam if you don't know what you are getting into. Insurance companies offering annuities are some of the worst for taking advantage of older people. Not all are bad, but I had to go thru an out of court settlement after an insurer took my parents to the cleaners. A classic case of elder abuse by a financial institution, but due to my Father being in the late stages of Alzheimers, there was no way to file a court action. Lots of irs problems and the loss of $100k's in benefits. Indirectly, this resulted in a bank trust officer losing her job. Total cluster and I was glad to see that she got her's. She had absolutely no business handling people's estates.
If you have older parents, beware of the annuity frauds out there. If you have an annuity, examine it closely.
If you have older parents, beware of the annuity frauds out there. If you have an annuity, examine it closely.
Not in my case, my mother was getting old and a little senile after my dad died and I got a policy through Genworth which is a GE company. Very low premiums of $2500 per year with a total max payout of $330k. I paid out 2 years of premiums and starting seeing her decline I had her evaluated by a Geriatric Psychologist and a PHD in dementia fully expecting them to decline the coverage. She was approved without any hesitation and lived off her policy until she passed at 85 just prior to the money running out. I also received a refund of all premiums paid. It was the best investment I ever made for her by a long shot. Timing is everything along with reading the policy fine print along with planning for them to try and fuck you over. YMMV
You're pulling that $81.4B number from 2019, which involved the entire operation of Berkshire Hathaway, and even that was a fluke for BRK due to new accounting rules. Berkshire's insurance division in that year netted $325 million, still a huge sum, but far and away from $81.4 billion. For 2020, they made a fair bit more, as did all insurers due to lower claims and fewer catastrophic storms, and they netted $657 million for insurance.
Hey Asshole,
Before you start telling me how fortunate you were with the great timing and reading the fucking fine print, why don't you take a look at the class action lawsuits that GE/Genworth have facing them. One was settled:
https://richmond.com/business/genwo...cle_e8b4cf0e-95c8-5140-930b-8bb41febd63f.html
Maybe you should also look at all of the complaints that have been filed with the BBB, and those that were left without policies thanks to GE increasing premiums to cover their own fiscal malfeasance:
Genworth LTC Premiums Class Action Lawsuit
Learn more about the lawsuit involving deceptive Genworth LTC policy premium rates.
classactionsreporter.com
Amid GE fraud accusation, it might be a good time to check your long-term care policy
Allegations that GE's long-term-care unit is suffering massive losses come amid multiple challenges in the market, which has shrunk precipitously in recent years.
www.cnbc.com
Love the way an asshole like you tells me to read the fine print when it is obvious what Genworth did to couples like us. Read the articles and you will see how they increased the premiums to ridiculous levels, forcing policy holders to give up coverage: "The plaintiffs note that while Genworth had agreed to pay $219 million to settle allegations of securities law violations stemming from company disclosures about long-term care reserves, policyholders "have essentially been asked to pay for the fraud themselves" through rate increases, benefit reductions or policy terminations."
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Just because you got fucked over doesn't make me an asshole dickhead....... I'm supposed to feel bad because you had a bad experience and mine was stellar?? I guess everyone who has a good experience now is an asshole huh? what a miserable life.........
Meanwhile, you don't take into account that the articles quoted to you speaking of the numerous cases where people lost their policies thanks to genworthless. All done to boost their bottom line. Guess you were one of the lucky ones at the expense of those that lost or could not afford the 150% increases in premiums, with a further warning from genworthless that more increases would be coming.
I had ltc's on both of my parents. One with ge, the other with unum. At the time (early 2000's), ge drug their feet with my father (Alzheimers) and unum was facing the same problem. It got so bad with unum, that their own internal nurse evaluators complained about how they were screwing policy holders and unum had to face up to it.
There were numerous complaints where ge ltc policy holders had to go to court to satisfy claims. By the time a suit was settled, if it was settled, many had died bankrupt. How do you take ge to court when you don't have the money to pay the nursing home? It's thanks to people that filed those law suits and those that lost their policies that you were able to collect. BTW, did you know that a suit was settled with genworthless in 2020 for $219M? They also tried to sell off genworthless to the chinese. That is still on going, the last I heard.
Due to unum facing insurance fraud charges, things worked out better for my mother. Unum had to establish nurse advocates and adhere to the policies they sold. I thank God for those brave nurses that stood up for what was right.
I think before you call the other guy a dickhead, you ought to count your blessings and hope something like this doesn't happen to you. Reading the fine print doesn't necessarily mean that you will get what is promised............It certainly didn't work for thousands of ge ltc policy holders.
It is in the insurance agency that you should clarify these nuances. Each company has its own rules.
I think quite the opposite. Insurance companies are the ones who make the payouts....they are the ones giving people millions of dollars for "pain and suffering" and "mental anguish"......not the business owner.
Doc
And as the present business model, you don't think those who want to take advantage of a situation, they wouldn't try to litigate the new ownership of your business to themselves?
You have more faith than I do. Imagine you having to hire a law firm to defend yourself in court. Imagine the investigators that would be working on your dime. Even if they don't get a dime, you're going to be out thousands at a minimum.
BTW, it's the courts that are awarding those amounts, not the insurance companies.
Been here less than an hour.
First post is an act of necromancy, in the bear pit.
There couldn't possibly be any reason for your existence here.
Bancat should pinch your head off before you are real trouble.
First post is an act of necromancy, in the bear pit.
There couldn't possibly be any reason for your existence here.
Bancat should pinch your head off before you are real trouble.
owning my own construction business for 26 years , i learned first hand what insurance companies cover , how much, and which companies are the best. Best= State Farm by a wide margin. Worst=Farmers or almost any company that has "farmer" in it's name . Also as i was told "after" my first claim almost 30 years ago, there is good, better and best in coverages. Always get "best". It covers "current" cost of repairing. At the time i had the "best" coverage , but my agent neglected to inform me of that and only paid for "good". Cost him as soon as i found out "later" and over the last 30 years with all the insurance coverage for my home, ranch, business's, cost him a lot more than the few extra thousand dollars it would have for just being honest with me at that time. Also keep in mind, insurance is for disasters, not upkeep on your home, like if u decide you want new carpet, so it gets a stain.
It is STILL a scam. A Modified Ponzi.
As I told one of my relatives who had the same complaint during claims as the OP, "They aren't in business to pay off claims, they are in business to DENY claims."
Those are the ones you hear about in the news. Rest assured the number of claims settled by insurance companies out of court are exponentially greater.
I refused to read all the stuff written so far. Debating points of minutiae for pages? Nah.
My father called insurance 'reverse gambling'.
You only win if you lose.
My father called insurance 'reverse gambling'.
You only win if you lose.
I'd bet 50% of insurance claims are some form of fraud, especially injuries and accidents. If I was an insurance company I'd get tired of that crap too. You get mad because the insurance company goes hard when you try and get paid and you feel cheated. The claims adjuster you are dealing with has 250 other claims he is processing this week and knows he is getting lied to by at least 125 of them. Because of those liars, the rest of us live in misery.
I had a drunk neighbor drive into my detached garage and cause $6,500 in damage. His insurance agreed to pay the full amount less 30%. I asked why they refused to pay the 30%? They said my garage was 30% at fault. It had been silently standing in the same spot since 1958 and was probably old and crumbly and deserved to get hit, according to Farmers Insurance. I said, OK, your client will be in court for the 30%, plus my time and legal fees and my current rate was $75 an hour for shop time. So he was going to get fucked. They backed down, but it was in their nature to fuck me over.
When they started letting Russians migrate to America, they worked insurance scams like it was a job. I had a shooting buddy who was the lead attorney for State Farm Insurance. He fought three cases in 24 months against the same Russian over whiplash in three different accidents, all in parking lots, all under 5mph and all three led him to have "sexual dysfunction". The first time the jury gave him $300,000. A year later, a different jury, different 5 mph accident, another $200,000. When he walked in for the third time with a parking lot accident, "sexual dysfunction" and demanding $1.5 million dollars from the commercial truck he claimed hit him, even the judge was tired of it. My buddy said they have dozens of cases like that a month.
While I don't enjoy paying for insurance, I really don't want to pay a crack head who slips on my walk, $300K of my own money. For me, it is worth $700 a year to not have to eat the cost of my $850,000 house if it burns down.
My son works for SF. He deals with rejected settlement offers (sorry, I don't know all the correct terms). He told me the US is divided into quadrants - NE, SE, NW, SW. Florida stands alone. IIRC something like two-thirds of all PIP claims in the state come from south of Orlando and about three-quarters are from three firms. IMO fraud is spelled with an L.
Insurance coverage is like your Constitutional Rights . You have it until they say you don't . Stretch and stay limber cause ya never know when ya gotta grab her ankles .
Why don’t you just leave the combo written on a post it note stuck on the safe save us both some time and does your dog like rare or medium rare?
If you object to insurance do not buy it.
When you run a stop sign and hit someone simply buy them a new car and pay their medical bills out of your checking account.
When your house burns down, buy yourself a new one and still repay the loan on the burned one because that debt still exists.
When you shit gets stolen, go buy more shit. Don't even bother with the police report.
Insurance, syndicates and other forms of disbursed loss groups were designed for a reason. Imagine sailing a ship to the new world and having it sink taking every penny of your families wealth with it, in 1650 this was a problem. Imagine owning a 1/10th share and only losing a portion of that family wealth. Or offering a 1/10th share to a person or organization who would pay to make you whole if the ship was lost. It was a bet that made sense 500 years ago and it still does today.
I do not think you should have to buy insurance for anything you fully own. I also think if you cannot pay your debt to people you kill or injure or replace property you damage you should go to Debtors Prison until the debt is paid. It's only fair.
When you run a stop sign and hit someone simply buy them a new car and pay their medical bills out of your checking account.
When your house burns down, buy yourself a new one and still repay the loan on the burned one because that debt still exists.
When you shit gets stolen, go buy more shit. Don't even bother with the police report.
Insurance, syndicates and other forms of disbursed loss groups were designed for a reason. Imagine sailing a ship to the new world and having it sink taking every penny of your families wealth with it, in 1650 this was a problem. Imagine owning a 1/10th share and only losing a portion of that family wealth. Or offering a 1/10th share to a person or organization who would pay to make you whole if the ship was lost. It was a bet that made sense 500 years ago and it still does today.
I do not think you should have to buy insurance for anything you fully own. I also think if you cannot pay your debt to people you kill or injure or replace property you damage you should go to Debtors Prison until the debt is paid. It's only fair.
NO
That was one of the horrors of British rule that for awhile was still here, especially used by the government for people who were too broke to pay high levy taxes.
Eventually the country realized it was an abomination and rejected it for good.
I disagree that insurance is a fraud. Most likely, it all depends on the insurance company and its policy. When you choose an insurance company, it is better to immediately find out all the nuances and not be surprised.
All insurance companies ensure not only you but also themselves. They immediately exclude the possibility that you will fire the house yourself or hire a person for this. All this is quite possible, and many do so. If you think insurance is pointless, then don't buy it. So there will be much more adrenaline.
At the moment, I have error and omission insurance. I work as a cosmetologist, and I think I have to insure myself. There have already been cases several times when they tried to heat me up for good money. This happens very often.
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https://www.liabilitycover.ca/
All insurance companies ensure not only you but also themselves. They immediately exclude the possibility that you will fire the house yourself or hire a person for this. All this is quite possible, and many do so. If you think insurance is pointless, then don't buy it. So there will be much more adrenaline.
At the moment, I have error and omission insurance. I work as a cosmetologist, and I think I have to insure myself. There have already been cases several times when they tried to heat me up for good money. This happens very often.
_________________________________________
https://www.liabilitycover.ca/
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Try not to come off as a spammer, listing website links to things. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but you're only two posts in to the Hide and it raises flags.
