Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

[CoryT]

How many people would be interested in a 3 day XLR class? Ranges out to 2k meters as before, plus a Webcast (2-4 hours) some few days/weeks prior to the class to detail the functions of our preferred ballistic software, Field Firing Solutions. Cost would be $933 for the 3 days, the Webcast included.

Dates are open right now, figure the best times of the year would be April-May or Sept-Oct. Class would be limited to 12, partners can easily share a gun. PM or email with your preferred time frame and I'll start a list. Thanks!

 

[desertHK]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

I am interested.

 

[Jong]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

I am interested in a fall class.

 

[craines51]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

any idea on what cost might be? thanks

 

[Dogtown]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

"Cost would be $933 for the 3 days, the Webcast included."

 

[craines51]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

glad it wasn't a snake!

 

[CoryT]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

I've PM'd back to those who sent a note, but it looks like 9-11 OCT or 16-18 OCT are the dates that might work best. I'm working a deal to include FFS Delta II or IV at a special price, plus a potential deal on a TDS Nomad PDA for those who want a Mil-Spec PDA for the field. I'll post that here when it gets finalized.

 

[Dogtown]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

Sounds like a really good deal!


PS. Oh damn, Buz is running for AZ gov...

 

[Chiller]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've PM'd back to those who sent a note, but it looks like 9-11 OCT or 16-18 OCT are the dates that might work best. I'm working a deal to include FFS Delta II or IV at a special price, plus a potential deal on a TDS Nomad PDA for those who want a Mil-Spec PDA for the field. I'll post that here when it gets finalized. </div></div>

Now you have my interest.

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

Minimum caliber requirements?

 

[desertHK]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

gonna need something that can push it out to about 2000 yards, I think. I am bringing my 338LM.

 

[CoryT]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

It's looking like the consensus is 16-18 OCT. I can do a deal to include the software, figure $150 for Delta III and $300 for Delta IV. I'd advise Delta IV, I think the extra features are well worth the investment. I'll have my Vector IV and a Vector 1500 with data cables available so you can use the LRF connection.

I'm waiting on a final price on the TDS Nomad. These would be the 800LD in green with a serial boot for the LRF connection. See http://www.tdsway.com/products/nomad for details on this true field rugged PDA.

Caliber is up to you, I'd suggest something that will remain supersonic to 1500 meters at 4500ft and 65F (nominal station pressure 25.50). Lesser rounds can certainly be used, but a fair number of the targets may end up beyond your useful range.

 

[desertHK]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

I am in. But have to earn some serious points from my wife. It's right on her birthday, with my luck.

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

Oh oh, wtf is an LRF connection? Oh, I see, that's why I will go. Can't wait to find out.

The TDS Nomad looks like a solid bit of equipment. Probably would out survive my I-phone under harsh conditions. I'll have to go in for one of those as well I suppose....Thank you for the effort on the discount on the equipment and software Cory, it is appreciated.

If I could have an expected round count for the class, that could help in my handloading tasks prior to leaving. I will be bringing 408ct EDM Windrunner for > 1000 yards. If there is someone who needs to buddy up for that portion because you do not have an ELR type of rifle, let me know if I can help. I will bring the 408ct and .338lm limited to 250g Scenar in Sako trg as well.

This should be fun and educational. Thanks so much. kro.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

Field Firing Solutions will acquire range (and maybe bearing) data from some laser range finders. Once the target is designated with the LRF, tap the target label, and it computes the firing solution automatically.

And Field Firing Solutions doesn't run on an iphone.

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

Dang iPhone.

 

[Jong]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

Would also like round count. What does this program do better than the ballistic FTE program on my iphone? I am new to all this so I am just wondering. Can anyone recommend a good pda for the program? Can't really justify spending all that money for a TDS nomad.

Also a list of what we would need for the class would be great!!

 

[kmussack]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

Cory; as I wrote in my PM, I'm in!

Having attended two XLR courses at Gunsite I'd suggest 250 rounds as being plenty. You'll have lots of opportunity to shoot more but for me the .338LM has a way of wearing me out after a while.

Sunscreen, brimmed hat, shooting matt,spotting scope, PDA w/FFS, etc.

It's a gentleman's course but there'll be enough dust and dirt for eveybody.

Going to Gunsite is like going home, I'm looking forward to it.

 

[linebaugh500]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

Wow - check out the mug on <span style="font-style: italic">that</span> guy!

OK, here's one of my own:

Cory, I'm definitely in (this'll be round 2 for me). There's just no way I'd miss it.

BTW, for you fellas that haven't treated yourselves to a Gunsite trip yet, do it!!!! You'll never forget it.

 

[CoryT]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

This went out as a PM as well.

OK, 16-18 OCT is now confirmed and on the schedule in the office, so you can download an application from www.gunsite.com and call/fax Karen to get signed up. Supply your email address and I'll be sending out documents for equipment requirements.

Send me a personal email at [email protected] to indicate if you want to get a copy of FFS and/or one of the Trimble PDA's. Those will need payment upfront to get the bulk price, so I need a complete count before we commit the order. I'm hoping to have the PDA price today, I'll post it ASAP.

As far as the Webcast on FFS, I'm open to suggestion on the timing. It would be nice for everyone to have their copy in hand before that happens. If we get most of the signups done by the end of next week, and everyone indicates to me if they are ordering or already have the software, we'll then set a date that works for everyone.

 

[CoryT]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

Jong, as Kevin suggests, 250 rounds should be plenty, leaving with a little leftover. You'd rather have a little too much, since you won't find it on the shelf.

FFS is quite simply the most full featured package available. It is designed for the working sniper and built with teamwork in mind. Features such as offsets for different shooters and ammo in a single gun, target and FFP storage for quick selection, GPS and LRF integration, object size database and shot log set it apart from the others. You can see the features listed here.

FFS Version comparison

 

[CoryT]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

Here's the deal on the TDS Nomad. I can package FFS Delta IV, the PDA with GPS, Bluetooth, 1G and WiFI, plus the serial boot for $2220 delivered. I've got two sold as of now. If I get three more to commit, it will go down to $2170. I'll need a check or MO, delivery could be as much as 8 weeks out depending on stock at Trimble. I've spec'd green with the PDA keypad, the numeric pad is no charge if you'd rather get that.

 

[thekubiaks]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

If you have an iPhone, have a look at this, I have been using it. It may appear cheesy but it is loaded with features.

http://ballistic.zdziarski.com/

 

[linebaugh500]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

I purchased an iTouch (cased in a protective unit from Otterbox) and threw Ballistic on it for my trip to Gunsite last year (XLR course). For their price, they offer a good value to the novice rifleman - but I think it's important to view them in the proper context.

The iTouch itself is suitable for marksmanship training only, not actual field use (I can't stress this enough). It <span style="font-style: italic">needs</span> the Otterbox armor or it won't survive very long at all (even with the armor, the unit still needs to be treated with some care). Also, I found the display was sometimes difficult to see clearly in the Arizona sun (even though I set the brightness to max for the entire trip). Finally, I had to recharge the unit each night to have enough power to last me the entire next day (keep in mind that there's no way to swap the battery for a fresh one if you run out of juice). Compared to my shooting partner's Nomad, my device was a curiosity at best.

As for Ballistic, it's OK for starting out - but that's all, in my view. I will say that its interface is clean and intuitive (whereas FFS could probably benefit from a usability study), and its output was helpful to me. Using Ballistic will certainly beat using nothing at all. But comparing it to Field is like comparing night to day - Field simply has a mountain of features that Ballistic just doesn't offer (the more advanced the shooter, the more important these features become). For example, Ballistic cannot account for Coriolis or spin drift whereas FFS can. Also, Field can accept input for multiple bands of wind, while Ballistic cannot. The list just goes on from there...

So I'll be going over my budget today and tomorrow trying to figure out how to scrape up the cash for the Nomad Cory's offering (with Field installed). It'll be an investment, but it'll be absolutely worth it.

 

[Goldbeachman]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

Ballistic does account for coriolis and spin drift effects (or at least ballistic fte does). The TDS Nomad looks to be an extremely rugged unit based on the reviews I've now read and FFS does quite a bit more than Ballistic. I'd like to spring for the Nomad and software but still having trouble wrapping my head around the price tag....

 

[linebaugh500]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

Hmm, I'm looking at my version of Ballistic FTE right now and I can't find anything in the interface relating to either Coriolis or spin drift. I checked the website, and it does mention that the <span style="font-weight: bold">JBM Ballistics Computer</span> calculates spin drift - but nowhere in the interface do I see an input for direction of rifling. The website also mentions that the same engine handles Coriolis - but again I see nothing in the interface relating to my location or the direction in which I'm firing.

I can only figure that the program must have improved quite a bit in the last year.

 

[Jong]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: linebaugh500</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I purchased an iTouch (cased in a protective unit from Otterbox) and threw Ballistic on it for my trip to Gunsite last year (XLR course). For their price, they offer a good value to the novice rifleman - but I think it's important to view them in the proper context.

The iTouch itself is suitable for marksmanship training only, not actual field use (I can't stress this enough). It <span style="font-style: italic">needs</span> the Otterbox armor or it won't survive very long at all (even with the armor, the unit still needs to be treated with some care). Also, I found the display was sometimes difficult to see clearly in the Arizona sun (even though I set the brightness to max for the entire trip). Finally, I had to recharge the unit each night to have enough power to last me the entire next day (keep in mind that there's no way to swap the battery for a fresh one if you run out of juice). Compared to my shooting partner's Nomad, my device was a curiosity at best.

As for Ballistic, it's OK for starting out - but that's all, in my view. I will say that its interface is clean and intuitive (whereas FFS could probably benefit from a usability study), and its output was helpful to me. Using Ballistic will certainly beat using nothing at all. But comparing it to Field is like comparing night to day - Field simply has a mountain of features that Ballistic just doesn't offer (the more advanced the shooter, the more important these features become). For example, Ballistic cannot account for Coriolis or spin drift whereas FFS can. Also, Field can accept input for multiple bands of wind, while Ballistic cannot. The list just goes on from there...

So I'll be going over my budget today and tomorrow trying to figure out how to scrape up the cash for the Nomad Cory's offering (with Field installed). It'll be an investment, but it'll be absolutely worth it. </div></div>

Thanks for the info. I am still not sure about spending that much for a pda but might just get a cheaper pda and run FFS on that. Just to let you know you can buy batteries that go on a Iphone so you can run it longer.

 

[desertHK]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

I have an HP ipaq 211. I currently run Exbal on that, but plan to get the FFS Delta IV for it. Talked to the folks at FFS and it should run okay with the HP211. I have a metal case for it and it should be relatively sturdy for field use.

 

[linebaugh500]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just to let you know you can buy batteries that go on a Iphone so you can run it longer. </div></div>

Thanks for the info. I'd certainly look into purchasing them if I planned on using my iTouch a whole lot more (I'm guessing, though, that they'd require the removal of the Ottorbox armor for use).

In the past, I've considered buying one of the portable power packs from Energizer that runs on standard AA batteries and can power various devices in emergencies. They're inexpensive, but I've passed on them because they would have been just one more piece of fragile gear to carry (also, they too would require the removal of the Ottorbox armor).

An experience like Gunsite will quickly illustrate the importance of tough gear (this is why I bring up the armor issue again). There's a whole bunch of dusty sand and tiny stones blowing around in the Arizona desert, and thay can easily damage an iTouch (or iPhone) all by themselves.

On top of that, though, us five students rode back and forth to the ranges each morning and afternoon in the flatbed of a pickup truck (we all had fun doing so - we had a great view of the scenery and shot the shit the entire ride). But that truck was filled with guns and gear, and my pack was kicked, stepped on, sat on, dropped, bounced around (the dirt roads can get a bit bumpy), and even (accidentally) compressed under the two .50s that were on hand. My iTouch rode in that pack, and it's a safe bet that, without the Ottorbox armor, it would have been damaged or destroyed.

Don't get me wrong; this kind of (rough) treatment is fine with me. Actually, I'd have it no other way - not only did it make the experience that much more fun, but it was a very good test for the durability of my gear. I'd much rather find out that something's not up to snuff during a class than in the field when I really need it.

 

[Cardinal]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: linebaugh500</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmm, I'm looking at my version of Ballistic FTE right now and I can't find anything in the interface relating to either Coriolis or spin drift. I checked the website, and it does mention that the <span style="font-weight: bold">JBM Ballistics Computer</span> calculates spin drift - but nowhere in the interface do I see an input for direction of rifling. The website also mentions that the same engine handles Coriolis - but again I see nothing in the interface relating to my location or the direction in which I'm firing.</div></div>

My version of Ballistic has settings/options for "spin and stability" and "coriolis Acceleration" in the main window....
v2.3.2

 

[Jong]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

linebaugh500
The battery that I have gotten requires you to take off an otterbox which I also have and love. The cool thing about it though is that it will charge up my iphone and then I can put it back in the otterbox.

 

[linebaugh500]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cardinal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My version of Ballistic has settings/options for "spin and stability" and "coriolis Acceleration" in the main window....
v2.3.2 </div></div>

Ah, I see.

I'm the proud owner of version 1.5.0.

I hope an update is offered (I'll have to check that out later)...

 

[Graham]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

Cory, PM sent.

 

[paindoc]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

Cory,
Count me in.

 

[CoryT]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

Roger that. make sure you call in tomorrow and get registered, it's looking like this will fill up.

To all involved in the buy of software and/ or Nomad PDA's, I'll be sending out payment instructions from the office tomorrow. If you still want in, you'll have until Friday to arrange for payment. You can call me at the shop tomorrow if you have any questions, (928) 636 4565

 

[Graham]

Re: Interest in an XLR class at Gunsite

OK Cory, I can't resist: I'm in.
I'll team up with DocJ.
And I'll call Karen tomorrow.
See y'all there!