Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

#51
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

I had a bunch of jars of sweet pepper jelly that i had made and not used so the other day smoked a boston butt roast for a few hours and glazed it with the jelly then shreded it and added another jar of the pepper jelly to it and was a hit at the camp ground that night. just the right amount of spice with a little sweetness to it. Another thing i made in the smoker was deer ham take a hind quater of the deer brine it in some brown sugar cure then smoke at about 180-200 for about 8 hours and turned out great. Wife even liked it and she does not eat deer. I will keep that secrect from her.
 
#52
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Okay... I think its mutiny to even consider throwing seasoning or dippin your meat in sauce...

BBQ'ing is the fancy smancy word for GRILLIN!

What your gonna wanna do is grab a charcoal grill turn that bad boy up and throw some steaks or boneless chops on that grill then enjoy the taste of the finely cook meat.

If you want to get everyones attention then grab some of that greek seasoning from the store and sprinkle it on and only one beef patties!

I cant stand when a steak or chicken is smothered in somethin and they call it BBQ'ing
Might as well call it martha stewart cookin...

Its like those fools at bars who order a vodka/tonic and ask for grey goose... I mean can you actually taste the grey goose with tonic or another flavor?

Somepeople here in iowa ie:my ex's dad cooks on the charcoal girll and never cleans it and when they grill the next time around heck yea that steak or brat taste amazing!
 
#53
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

I only use cast iron grate grills now and never "clean" them. I treat them like my skillets, use them, brush or wipe them before use, then cook them back.

As for steaks, they get seasoning salt and fresh course ground pepper, maybe some Montreal's once in a while, and that's about it. If I use steak sauce at home, it's to choke down one of the wifes shoe leather leftovers. If I have to ask for sauce while eating out, the manager is going to hear about it and likely offer another or a refund. A steak shouldn't require more than a knife and a fork, knife optional
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.
 
#54
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Have to agree that the only thing a good steak needs is salt and course ground pepper. Dry aged steak, spinkled with Hawaiian salt a few hours before putting over the coals, and some good fresh ground pepper. Hot fire and cook to rare, medium rare. Switch turned me on to putting on a little butter and bleu cheese the last couple of minuted.

I prefer a bone in strip or ribeye. Steak needs to be at least 1 1/2 inches thick.

Glass(es) of a good old vines Zin, butter crunch lettuce with bleu cheese dressing and it is dinner.

Forgot to add the dessert....fine bourbon and great cigar
 
#56
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Barbeque is all about low heat, and slow cooking. Any handmade sauce is not to mask flavor of good barbeque, but to meld and add to it. A good steak is grilled at high temp and short cooking time. The simple act of drying for a day, and applying a bit of cracked pepper, and red alea Hawaiian Sea Salt is all you need to bring the flavor of the meat. Adding a pat of 25:75 sweet butter to bleu cheese to melt on the steak as it finishes just enhances the flavor adding a compliment that when tasted exudes 'the good life'. Chasing it down with a hearty Zin is just icing on a cake.
When the smokiness of barbeque mixes with a little tomatoe base or vinegar base sauce the overall experience is heightened by the mingling flavors, same as they are when you put some good slaw on a barbeque pork sandwich.
Good cooking means flavor. Flavor is that which you build by adding something here at the base, adding a little of this and that at the middle, finishing it with a pinch of this or that, putting it on a plate, then mingling other things to give an explosion of taste and flavor that makes one heady with delight.
Can you say that your food gives you that level of satisfaction? Some days I can, some I don't, but man, when I do, it is freakin killer!
 
#57
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Did a month old steak few days ago however i used salt/pepper after it was done and i must say it's better (more moist i think). Did one to medium (not so good) and one rawish (not completely raw - english style but just a tad more) and rawish one was extremely juicy and tender (some don't like such meat), medium one while still good was a complete waste of time (aging meat) as for steaks which are "over" done any meat will do.
 
#58
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Actually I used switchblades type recipe and it got me laid. So im gonna have to say here here when it comes to bbqing for a beautiful woman.

i guess my method or technique is for the guys .

i added some chyene pepper and lemon juice and some others and dang!
 
#64
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Here's one of my own creation. I've never shared it before, but I've learned a few tricks here, so what the hell. It's a salmon stuffed mushroom appetizer. I take a salmon fillet and smoke it over Jack Daniels barrel chips for about 30-45 minutes. The fillet is rubbed on the skin side with olive oil and topped on meat side with Lawry's Teriyaki/Pinapple marinade and sprinkled with Tony Chechere's creole seasoning. Lay it on a piece of tin foil skin down so you can spoon the juices back over it until it carmelizes. In the mean time cook some peppery/ hickory smoked bacon in a skillet until crisp then cook some minced garlic and finely diced onion in the drippings. Drain the garlic and onion and put in a mixing bowl with the bacon finely chopped into bits and the flaked meat from the salmon. Mince it with a fork then stuff into washed and hulled button mushroom caps. Top with finely shredded mozzarella cheese and bake at 350 degrees on a greased cookie sheet until cheese is melted and juices start to run pretty good. Shake some more Tony Chechere's on top and seperate with a knife after they have cooled for a few minutes. There won't any leftovers
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.
 
#65
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Ah cory, that sounds good, but how about trying it this way:

Smoke the salmon cold at 150* for an hour after you cure it with basic sugar and salt cure(no dill). Thinly slice it and set aside. Cook bacon, onion, garlic, and mushrooms with a little of the seasoning. Take the salmon slices, and roll them into a cone and place the mixture from the pan into the salmon cone. Set the works on a toasted baguett round with a little creme fraisch to hold it down.

Now mind ya'all I don't know if this will be good because I just pulled it out my ass this second after reading the past few posts, but it does appear to have nmerit adn at first thought may go real well with Sunday mid morning Bloody Mary's
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#67
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

I need to pony up for the side smoke box attachment for my grill. Right now all my smoke is hot smoke since the grill isn't very big and I can't get the coals far enough away from the meat to not "cook" it. My Mom does a similar appetizer to your idea but also uses capers and stone wheat crakers instead of ciabatta. How about that Bloody Mary recipe
smirk.gif
. I love a good spicy Mary for breakfast on the weekends, call 'em my heart starters. I also like to hit a good Bloody Mary before I start drinking beer on race days.
 
#68
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Great thread here is a couple of shoulders from last weekend. Smoked with apple and hickory mix @ 180* for 8 hrs then 250* till they reach 210* internal temp. I would have preferred bone in but its all they had. Cooked them on a Traeger Pellet Grill.

000_0823.jpg
 
#69
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Bloody Mary's:

Since I can't get the good Bloody Mary mix from around Indy http://www.hoosiermomma.com/hoosier_momma (I need to get around the PayPal with a phone call) that is the new 'hottie' stuff, here goes:

I like V8 as a base so it's what I use
Tapatio or Wesseler's Serious Hot Sauce http://www.goinglocal-info.com/my_weblog/files/wesselers_serious_hot_sauce.pdf
Celery Salt
Worcestershire Sauce
Horseradish
Sea Salt
Pepper
Ston, 360*, Pravda Vodka
Celery leaf

For each 16oz Pint Glass filled 3/4 with ice
6oz V8
good dash of Hot Sauce
pinch of Horseradish
Splash of Worcestershire Sauce
pinch of sea salt
pinch of pepper
pinch of celery salt
3oz Vodka

Shake vigorously with ice until you can't hold the shaker can, then strain over ice, garnish with celery leaf

I have used Bufalo CHipotle Sauce in it...not too good
Tobasco, eh, it's ok
Tapatio, killer
Wesseler's - Freakin Over the Top
 
#70
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Sounds good, not too far off mine. I use Mr. and Mrs T's Bold mix as my base, Vodka (usually whatever I have on hand), Worcestershire sauce, Cholula or Tabasco, horseradish, grind pepper in, celery salt, juice from olive jar. Put all in a shaker cup and shake well. Pour into glass rimmed with lime juice and Lawry's season salt. Garnish with cucumber wedge and 2 green olives. They go down pretty fast
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#71
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Cholula garlic is excellent with BBQed chicken (drums or wings)...
Too bad it's only available in few places in Europe we usually use mules (friends who go to US
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) to bring large quantities of it over the pond...

Got also some of Jersey Death sauce we'll see how it fares as an additive...
 
#72
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Ribs went on at 0800 and will come back off at noon to be foil wrapped and finished in the oven till around 1600. At that point I think I'm going to fire up the grill, coat them with some home made sauce and start cooking it on a layer at a time. Haven't tried that yet but that's what the wife is asking for so we'll give it a shot and see what happens.

The hardware
IMG_0546.jpg


The software (hickory)
IMG_0548.jpg


The meat! Ribs were given a generous rub down of garlic and chipotle cajun seasoning last night and it crept throughout the house overnight. What a nice aroma to wake up to.
IMG_0547.jpg


I smoked three whole chickens last week and everyone in the family inhaled them. We did manage to scrape up some leftovers off of them and had some pretty awesome sandwiches for a couple of days afterword.

I'll try to remember to take more pics as things progress
 
#73
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

I'm heading back to the old hometown camping grounds over the holiday weekend, where we(mainly my old man) will be attempting to cook our first whole pig. Debated to either go with a propane rotissere cooker, or the "dig the hole in the ground" method....Went with the cooker. Should be interesting, and of course, good times.
 
#75
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

For whole pig (suckling pig actually) i can offer some advice as we do that regularly... Only salt (not too much and NOT a day before instead you salt the pig (rough salt not fine variety) right before you start the fire, if you salt it day/night before meat will dump water and pig will be dry as pepper...) and you rub it generously on the outside and also throw couple of fists inside (after rubbing it ofcourse) - some saw belly and put either beer bottle (water inside not beer
smile.gif
) to help with the heat (nonsense i think) accumulation or apples and carrots (nonsense2 i think).

Key to roasting is to gradually add heat (if there is wind it's advisable to use back screen made of metal sheets or anything heat reflecting - old carhood will do (for those who have freshly painted cars parking it behind pig works wonders for paint tan and you can use car battery to turn the pig in the same time
smile.gif
):

1st hour = warming up (basically you put not more than a showel of coals at the SIDE of the pig - shoulders and hips) heat must be such that you can comfortably hold hand at the distance the pig is put but still feel warmth from the coals
2nd/3rd hour = main cooking you add two/three showels to the same location as before, heat must be such that you can hold hand for atleast 30secs comfortably
4th5th = outside roast, you increase heat so that outside gets nice and crisp, for last 30 minutes start with beer (ON THE PIG, normal drinkers are @ #10 by now and only sober ones are allowed near pig...) to get nice crust

Major f.up is adding too much heat at the start (first two hours) as you burn the outside and create crust which prevents heat to enter inside of the pig and you get nice outside crust and blood and gore on the inside not good at all...better be late an hour than throw away half of the pig.


PS: For enclosed ovens (most of the restaurants use such) cut time in half...
 
#76
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For whole pig (suckling pig actually) i can offer some advice as we do that regularly... Only salt (not too much and NOT a day before instead you salt the pig (rough salt not fine variety) right before you start the fire, if you salt it day/night before meat will dump water and pig will be dry as pepper...) and you rub it generously on the outside and also throw couple of fists inside (after rubbing it ofcourse) - some saw belly and put either beer bottle (water inside not beer
smile.gif
) to help with the heat (nonsense i think) accumulation or apples and carrots (nonsense2 i think).

Key to roasting is to gradually add heat (if there is wind it's advisable to use back screen made of metal sheets or anything heat reflecting - old carhood will do (for those who have freshly painted cars parking it behind pig works wonders for paint tan and you can use car battery to turn the pig in the same time
smile.gif
):

1st hour = warming up (basically you put not more than a showel of coals at the SIDE of the pig - shoulders and hips) heat must be such that you can comfortably hold hand at the distance the pig is put but still feel warmth from the coals
2nd/3rd hour = main cooking you add two/three showels to the same location as before, heat must be such that you can hold hand for atleast 30secs comfortably
4th5th = outside roast, you increase heat so that outside gets nice and crisp, for last 30 minutes start with beer (ON THE PIG, normal drinkers are @ #10 by now and only sober ones are allowed near pig...) to get nice crust

Major f.up is adding too much heat at the start (first two hours) as you burn the outside and create crust which prevents heat to enter inside of the pig and you get nice outside crust and blood and gore on the inside not good at all...better be late an hour than throw away half of the pig.


PS: For enclosed ovens (most of the restaurants use such) cut time in half... </div></div>

Thank you sir....Good info that will surely be passed on to the head chef.
 
#77
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Waiting for the rest of the pics Phylo!

Man, I was perusing the contents of Mulligan's shelf and saw a bunch of bottles I would like to get to go with all that good smoky barbeque. More Bourbans than I can name, Plymouth Gin, 360* Vodka as well as a few other nice ones, Several Tequila's I like to enjoy and quite a few higher alcohol content brews.
Some back home stuff from Mendocino Brewing Company somehow found it's way into my pack. It's a cool 'blend' bottled as
Black Eye Ale, Blackhawk Stout & Eye of the Hawk Select Ale.
Basically it is a similiar mix to what we used to do for 1/2 and 1/2's with Blackhawk Stout and Red Tail Ale. Man, it's gonna be so good on the 4th!
 
#78
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Just finished up dinner and had to put on a pair of elastic waistband shorts before sitting down for an update. I think I might have hurt myself...

Four hours of smoke and five hours wrapped in foil then placed over the coals for the finish:
IMG_0554.jpg


Mama wanted sauce so sauce it is. Crisped them up a bit over direct heat then off to the side for 45 minutes of indirect heat to set the sauce. They were impossible to keep in full racks so I had to break them up a bit:

IMG_0555.jpg


Thanks to XARMOR for the mac & cheese recipe. It was a hit and a very good compliment to the ribs as he said it would be:

IMG_0556.jpg


What's left:

IMG_0557.jpg


I'm already thinking about the rib sandwich I'll have for lunch tomorrow
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#80
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Has anyone tried smoking with peppercorns? I saw it on TV and thought it was an interesting idea. Soak the peppercorns add them with them soaked wood. Love spicy, peppery food. Thought it might be a good way to add flavor, curious if anyone has tried it.
 
#82
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Mac&cheese recipe please?

That really looks awesome makes me hungry like a lion and its only 8AM here
smile.gif
and whole 8h of work to do...damn...
 
#83
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Thanx a ton i'll probably use fresh milk as we don't use powdered one at all... Sounds great though probably could do wonders wind different blends of cheese...
 
#84
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Just put on 6 butts for the 4th. With the small pit that I have I was able to do it by putting them on 2 levels. I'd like to get a different style of pit, but this one works well enough for the time being that I'm going to hold off until I can build exactly what I want.
 
#85
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

I think some ribs are in order for Sunday. Hopefully the Daytona race won't have me sloshed before the fireworks go off and the ribs are done. I have trouble getting my ribs fall off the bone tender. Been told I'm cooking them too low and not enough heat. Any truth to that or any other suggestions?
 
#86
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ARCOREY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think some ribs are in order for Sunday. Hopefully the Daytona race won't have me sloshed before the fireworks go off and the ribs are done. I have trouble getting my ribs fall off the bone tender. Been told I'm cooking them too low and not enough heat. Any truth to that or any other suggestions?</div></div>

How long and at what temp are you cooking them?
 
#87
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Ribs go four hours at 250*. First two hours are open and mopped every 30 mikes. Wrap in foil and mop, then let go for another two hours. They should be good by then. If not, another 30 mikes will do. If you want sauce on them, sauce them for the last 30 minutes, but we just leave that for the table here
 
#88
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Some Side Dishes. Yeah, no barbeque is complete until the plate is full. With that said, here we go:

___________________________________________________________________________________

Basic Slaw

1/2 Cabbage, sliced thin, rinced in cold water, pat dried with a paper towel
1 carrot, shredded, rinced of 'orange' until clear water runs, pat dry
Set aside
1 Lemon, squeezed, strained of seeds
1T Cider Vinegar
1/2c Mayo
1/2c Sour Cream
1/2t Garlic Salt
1/2 Coarse ground pepper
2T crushed pineapple, chopped rough

Mix all dressing ingredients together in order, TASTE IT! If it needs some more tart, add lemon juice. If it needs salt, add some. Do the same for each ingredient to get your balance of flavors that balnces a little sweet from teh pineapple with the tart of the lemon and vinegar.
Mix carrots and cabbage in a bowl, and add dressing until you have a creamy consistancy. Taste it again for salt and pepper.

You are now ready to put a nice fat spoonfull on that pulled pork sandwich and enjoy a nice NC taste treat!

A dash of horseradish goes in slaw real good for a nice added dimension of flavor

____________________________________________________________________________________

Simple Tater Salad/Mac Salad

2# Potatoes OR 2# Elbow Mac Noodles
I Boil my potatoes whole so th epeels come right off when they are cooled under ice for a few minutes then drained. Mac Noodles I cook for 8 Minutes then rince under cold water.
Cook either pototoes or mac and set aside after cutting taters into bite size pieces
Set Aside
1 Carrot, shredded, rinced
1 Celery stalk, sliced long ways into fourths, then across in your choice of dice size(I like a size about pinky nail or so)
1 small onion, diced
Set aside
1 1/2c Mayo
3T Mustard
1/2t Sea Salt
1t Coarse Pepper
1/2t Garlic Salt
Mix these together, then add the mire poix(Carrot, Celery, Onion)
and mix until even. Add the potatoes or mac noodles and mix until evenly coated. Adjust amount to make it as creamy or dry as you like.
I add a couple boiled, chopped eggs to mine occasionally, and leave the pickle relish alone.

______________________________________________________________________________

Jalapeno Cheese Grits

1T Cumin
1T Chili Powder
1T Ancho Powder
1t Salt
1t Pepper
1T Tapatio Sauce
1c Chopped Jalapeno peppers
1/2c chopped onion
1/4# Fresh Mexican Queso
1/4# Jack Cheese
1/4# Cheddar Cheese
1/4# Colby Cheese

Sautte Jalapenos and onions, adding seasonings, cover with enough water for your a box of grits, bring to a boil, add grits. Drop heat to simmer until grits are done. Break up Queso, shred cheeses and add into the grits.
Place grits into a buttered 9 x 13 pan, into th eoven or smoker with a mix of additional shredded cheese and queso on top. Cook until cheeses are melted

That oughtta fill your plate full of barbeque right to the edge!
 
#90
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Here is another great side dish. Compliments of the best cook I have ever known, my late wife Barb. These are great with some bits of brisket or shoulder or just about anything in place of the ground beef. This is really one of the tastiest bean dishes I have ever had and everyone I know who has tried it liked it.

Calico Beans

1/2 # bacon diced, I pre cook this
1 # Ground beef, cooked
1/2 C Chopped Onion
1/2 C Brown Sugar
1/2 C White Sugar
1/2 C Ketchup
2 T Vinegar
1 T Mustard
1 t salt
1 t pepper
1 #2 can Butter Beans
1 #2 can Kidney Beans
1 large Can Pork and Beans

Drain juice from beans into bowl or cup, keep on reserve in case beans need more juice


Mix all together. Bake Uncovered at 300 for 1-1 1/2 hours.
 
#91
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Been doing 2 hours smoke at about 225 degrees grill temp, then 2 hours in foil and apple juice at about 250 degrees, then another 2 hrs. at 250 degrees for the sauce. Don't have a good meat thermometer, just go by the grill temps.
 
#92
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Those should be done, if they are falling apart then you can probably cut back on the last 2 hours. Gonna have to go by how they look and feel. If the meat is pulling away from the bone, or you can take and twist a bone free from he meat they are done. I would be careful with putting sauce on too early if you use it. Lots of sauces are high in sugar content and they can burn on your ribs ruining your day. I like to add sauce usually the last 30 min.
 
#93
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Mmmmmm, beers!

Currently:
Sam Adams Noble Pils for a lighter brew
For Sunday I have a pair of Mendocino Brewing Company Black Eye Ales(1/2 and 1/2 Blackhawk Stout and Eye of the Hawk Select Ale)
If it comes from a craft brewery, chances are it's pretty darn good. There are 'local' breweries all over every state it seems and most have very good stuff. Samuel Adams has some superb seasonals out right now as does Sierra Nevada and Mendocino Brewing Company. Here in TN down in N-Ville, Yazoo has some killer brews and if you are drinking 'Walkarounds', Bardstown and KY have several Bourbon Barrel Aged Beers to choose from.
There have been some really cool beers come out in the last year or so. These are barrel aged beers that are freakin OUTSTANDING. So much to choose from and so much to try. There just isn't enough time or money to try them all, but dammit, it's my mission in life!
grin.gif
 
#95
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

HOly CHit! That Black Eye Ale is like th BEST EVER 1/2 and 1/2. The Blackhawk Stout really shine in this brew! Dark, Malty Sweetness highlighted by the Eye of the Hawk Select Ale's hoppy notes. The burgers and dogs fired up over the natural charcoals searing flames were freakin super with this bottle, man, what a meal! Tater saad after three days sitting was the freakin BOMB!

Nice ride, killer chow, kick ass La Flor Dominicana DL-450 and Buff Trace, then the fireworks, kick butt evening with a killer finish
 
#96
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

With the help of you guys, I have finally achieved tender, juicy, fall off the bone rib wisdom
wink.gif
. I got a late start yesterday, but got them smoked up for about 2 hrs in some applewood, then put the coals to her and cooked them in apple juice for another 2.5hrs while wrapped tightly in foil. You couldn't pick them up with the tongs they were so tender. I had to shovel them onto the plate. I topped them off with some Jack Daniels BBQ sauce. I tried to get pictures, but either the camera, or me made them blurry. Come to think of it, everything was kinda blurry after 4 Bloody Mary's and about 12-15 beers in Clamato juice and sea salt on an empty stomach. Now that I know how to get them tender and juicy, it's time to experiment with some of these rubs, sauces, and mops you guys are posting.
 
#99
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Pigfest 2010: Over the 4th we (mainly my old man and buddy) cooked up our first whole pig. It weighed 130lbs, prepped for the cooker. This one did not have the skin on, as the butcher was not set up for that. Next year we're going to figure out how to boil her up, and keep the skin on.

It was injected with a homemade creole garlic butter and basted with the same concoction. Cook time was approx 9 hours, or about an 18 pack and a half dozen Morgan/Diets. I think it turned out pretty damn good for our first run.

We borrowed a propane rotissere cooker from a friend.

Good times and good eats.

IMG_0088.jpg


IMG_0089.jpg


IMG_0090.jpg


IMG_0109.jpg


IMG_0110.jpg


IMG_0111.jpg
 
#100
Re: Intro to Barbeque, or barbeque for newbs

Get a couple big gas burners and a water trough to go on it. Fill it with water enough to let teh pig soak for five minutes or so as the water boils. This lets the hair be removed easier, stripped with a thick rubber grippy glove by hand and hot as you can stand water, then cool it with cold water and cook away, skin on. Same priciple for chickens and birds
 
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