Can any of the IOR Valada folks chime in here and advise the Pro and Con of the scope line. I am looking a a mid range model under 6 bills.
Thanks
Thanks
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Re: IOR Thoughts?
I'd suggest doing a search as this topic has been covered in great length and detail. My personal opinion is that they are a very good value as the glass is good and inexpensive as a whole, however their overall quality appears to be hit or mess. So if you get a good one, you're golden, otherwise you may have to return it a couple times to get a good one. Again, that's just my opinion.
I'd suggest doing a search as this topic has been covered in great length and detail. My personal opinion is that they are a very good value as the glass is good and inexpensive as a whole, however their overall quality appears to be hit or mess. So if you get a good one, you're golden, otherwise you may have to return it a couple times to get a good one. Again, that's just my opinion.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
I have never owned one, but have seen enough posts with guys having significant problems that I would think twice before buying one. That said, if I did buy one, I would make sure and buy from a vendor that had my back, like Scott. Seems like the chance of needing to send one back is high enough to consider.
I have never owned one, but have seen enough posts with guys having significant problems that I would think twice before buying one. That said, if I did buy one, I would make sure and buy from a vendor that had my back, like Scott. Seems like the chance of needing to send one back is high enough to consider.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
I have owned one. That being said...if you are going to buy the Snipers Hide 3-18 version...with FFP...and its for a 308 (or any other model)...you are in like gold. If you plan on putting it on a 338LM or such...DON'T.
I have owned one. That being said...if you are going to buy the Snipers Hide 3-18 version...with FFP...and its for a 308 (or any other model)...you are in like gold. If you plan on putting it on a 338LM or such...DON'T.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
The issues with the SH 3-18X42 version were primarily with Gen 1 and Gen2. Rarely any issues with Gen 3 in this model. But like the other poster stated .308 or lower caliber and you will be fine.
The issues with the SH 3-18X42 version were primarily with Gen 1 and Gen2. Rarely any issues with Gen 3 in this model. But like the other poster stated .308 or lower caliber and you will be fine.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
My 6-24x has held up on my .408 Windrunner surprisingly well. Like I said, I think I got a good one. It was just a temporary scope while I waited for a custom ordered scope, but it worked out so well over 9 months while I waited that I just hung on to it.
My 6-24x has held up on my .408 Windrunner surprisingly well. Like I said, I think I got a good one. It was just a temporary scope while I waited for a custom ordered scope, but it worked out so well over 9 months while I waited that I just hung on to it.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
I have 4 of them. All work great. My SH IOR is on a 308 with about400rds so far. Rest are on 260's and 6.5x47Lapuas. If you do get one, get it from Liberty Optics. Scott will back them up 110%.
I have 4 of them. All work great. My SH IOR is on a 308 with about400rds so far. Rest are on 260's and 6.5x47Lapuas. If you do get one, get it from Liberty Optics. Scott will back them up 110%.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
I have a GenIII SH FFP. NO problems. Have close to 2000 rounds under it. Great glass, positive adjustments, holds zero. Would by another. Used from 100 above to -30. Knobs get stiff when very cold. go figure!!!
I have a GenIII SH FFP. NO problems. Have close to 2000 rounds under it. Great glass, positive adjustments, holds zero. Would by another. Used from 100 above to -30. Knobs get stiff when very cold. go figure!!!
Re: IOR Thoughts?
I can't speak for the low end IOR scopes but the SH Edition 3-18x42FFP mil/mil scope I own is fantastic! The IOR glass is withing spitting distance optically with my brother's USO SN3 and S&B 5-25PMII scopes at only 1/2-1/3 the price. Mechanically I'll have to wait and see though mine is a GenIII version SH Edition scope and I'm only shooting a .308 so I think I'll be O.K.
If you are looking at a $600 FFP scope you cannot beat the Falcon FFP scopes. I've got a prototype Falcon 5.5-25x56FFP scope that surprises everyone who tries my 10/22T. For the money if you want an FFP there is no other choice IMO.
HTH!
I can't speak for the low end IOR scopes but the SH Edition 3-18x42FFP mil/mil scope I own is fantastic! The IOR glass is withing spitting distance optically with my brother's USO SN3 and S&B 5-25PMII scopes at only 1/2-1/3 the price. Mechanically I'll have to wait and see though mine is a GenIII version SH Edition scope and I'm only shooting a .308 so I think I'll be O.K.
If you are looking at a $600 FFP scope you cannot beat the Falcon FFP scopes. I've got a prototype Falcon 5.5-25x56FFP scope that surprises everyone who tries my 10/22T. For the money if you want an FFP there is no other choice IMO.
HTH!
Re: IOR Thoughts?
I've had several IOR's. I loved em. There's a lot of folks that are nose up to em, but I've never had an issue. The MP8 reticle is my favorite of all of them out there. I just wish they made em in MOA's
I've had several IOR's. I loved em. There's a lot of folks that are nose up to em, but I've never had an issue. The MP8 reticle is my favorite of all of them out there. I just wish they made em in MOA's
Re: IOR Thoughts?
www.libertyoptics.com $1449
Look under IOR 35mm tubes. I'm thinking of getting one also.
www.libertyoptics.com $1449
Look under IOR 35mm tubes. I'm thinking of getting one also.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
On a similar subject, can anyone find the post with the information on the reticle for the SH edition IOR? My searchfu is weak and I have been unable to find it. Wanting to see the breakdown.
On a similar subject, can anyone find the post with the information on the reticle for the SH edition IOR? My searchfu is weak and I have been unable to find it. Wanting to see the breakdown.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blackwidow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how much do these SH edition scope set you back and where do you buy them? </div></div>
The SH Edition IOR 3-18x42FFP new are about $1,450 right now if you call Scott at Liberty Optics. You can also find them once in a while for sale on the Hide but if buying used I suggest a GenIII SH Edition scope as they have the bugs pretty much worked out of them. As I've said before IMO these are an amazingly good value if you want the best (they really are 98%+ S&B or USO image quality, I'm a photographer with over $15K in glass and know great glass when I see it) glass for the money and are shooting a .308Win or lower rounds. I love mine!
Some eye candy:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blackwidow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how much do these SH edition scope set you back and where do you buy them? </div></div>
The SH Edition IOR 3-18x42FFP new are about $1,450 right now if you call Scott at Liberty Optics. You can also find them once in a while for sale on the Hide but if buying used I suggest a GenIII SH Edition scope as they have the bugs pretty much worked out of them. As I've said before IMO these are an amazingly good value if you want the best (they really are 98%+ S&B or USO image quality, I'm a photographer with over $15K in glass and know great glass when I see it) glass for the money and are shooting a .308Win or lower rounds. I love mine!
Some eye candy:
Re: IOR Thoughts?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rem700p</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On a similar subject, can anyone find the post with the information on the reticle for the SH edition IOR? My searchfu is weak and I have been unable to find it. Wanting to see the breakdown. </div></div>
The SH Edition 3-18x42FFP scopes are first focal plane so the stadia shrink and grow with the image thereby representing a perfectly consistent yardstick relative to the image seen. What do you want to know about the MP8 reticule maybe I can help answer your question.
The central sighting dot represents one quarter milrad surrounded by an open space. The first hash mark is one milrad then alternating short long hash lines indicating one half and one full milrad. You see five milrads to the heavy posts and the lower stadia continue on out to ten milrads with five milrad hash marks shown 4 milrads wide.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rem700p</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On a similar subject, can anyone find the post with the information on the reticle for the SH edition IOR? My searchfu is weak and I have been unable to find it. Wanting to see the breakdown. </div></div>
The SH Edition 3-18x42FFP scopes are first focal plane so the stadia shrink and grow with the image thereby representing a perfectly consistent yardstick relative to the image seen. What do you want to know about the MP8 reticule maybe I can help answer your question.
The central sighting dot represents one quarter milrad surrounded by an open space. The first hash mark is one milrad then alternating short long hash lines indicating one half and one full milrad. You see five milrads to the heavy posts and the lower stadia continue on out to ten milrads with five milrad hash marks shown 4 milrads wide.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rem700p</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On a similar subject, can anyone find the post with the information on the reticle for the SH edition IOR? My searchfu is weak and I have been unable to find it. Wanting to see the breakdown. </div></div>
The SH Edition 3-18x42FFP scopes are first focal plane so the stadia shrink and grow with the image thereby representing a perfectly consistent yardstick relative to the image seen. What do you want to know about the MP8 reticule maybe I can help answer your question.
The central sighting dot represents one quarter milrad surrounded by an open space. The first hash mark is one milrad then alternating short long hash lines indicating one half and one full milrad. You see five milrads to the heavy posts and the lower stadia continue on out to ten milrads with five milrad hash marks shown 4 milrads wide.
</div></div>
Ok, so the first hash from the dot is 1 milrad from the dot? and then every hash afterwards is .5? Just wanting to clarify.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rem700p</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On a similar subject, can anyone find the post with the information on the reticle for the SH edition IOR? My searchfu is weak and I have been unable to find it. Wanting to see the breakdown. </div></div>
The SH Edition 3-18x42FFP scopes are first focal plane so the stadia shrink and grow with the image thereby representing a perfectly consistent yardstick relative to the image seen. What do you want to know about the MP8 reticule maybe I can help answer your question.
The central sighting dot represents one quarter milrad surrounded by an open space. The first hash mark is one milrad then alternating short long hash lines indicating one half and one full milrad. You see five milrads to the heavy posts and the lower stadia continue on out to ten milrads with five milrad hash marks shown 4 milrads wide.
</div></div>
Ok, so the first hash from the dot is 1 milrad from the dot? and then every hash afterwards is .5? Just wanting to clarify.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rem700p</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Ok, so the first hash from the dot is 1 milrad from the dot? and then every hash afterwards is .5? Just wanting to clarify. </div></div>
Yes sir!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rem700p</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Ok, so the first hash from the dot is 1 milrad from the dot? and then every hash afterwards is .5? Just wanting to clarify. </div></div>
Yes sir!
Re: IOR Thoughts?
Has IOR, or IOR-Valdada invested in this market by adding employees or a service facility? Just wondering...
Anyone considering purchasing any IOR product needs to find out about their warranty terms and service availability. Two years ago, when I owned 4 IOR scopesights, the scope tubes would crimp easily if owner tightened the scope rings over 15 inch pounds (1.25 foot pounds of torque), because the scope tubes were light tubing. At that time IOR-Valdada had only one employee plus the owner of the distributorship. Decisions as to what was qualified as a warranty claim and if warranty was transferable rested with the owner. IOR has nothing resembling a "no hassles" or "no questions asked" warranty.
Scopesights, especially variable and lit reticle designs have many complexities that are likely to require service at some point in time.
I purchased a brand new 2-12x IOR-Valdada scope which exhibited great optical distortion from 2-5x and from 10-12x. The same scope would not focus either reticle and target crisply at any distance, and the glass MP-8 reticle had an oily film in the hashmark area.
The 4 - 14x I bought used (ebay) was not disclosed to have a crimped tube. When one of the two turret zeroing screws in the elvation turret snapped, I returned the scope to have the screw shank removed. IOR almost denied claim because the tube was crimped and I was not original owner. The screw was defective and the allen-head fastener, a tiny metric (of course) screw simply snapped. Cost me $25 to return the scope to get a defective screw replaced.
I will not buy another IOR product until the parent company upgrades its services and facilities here in the USA.
Has IOR, or IOR-Valdada invested in this market by adding employees or a service facility? Just wondering...
Anyone considering purchasing any IOR product needs to find out about their warranty terms and service availability. Two years ago, when I owned 4 IOR scopesights, the scope tubes would crimp easily if owner tightened the scope rings over 15 inch pounds (1.25 foot pounds of torque), because the scope tubes were light tubing. At that time IOR-Valdada had only one employee plus the owner of the distributorship. Decisions as to what was qualified as a warranty claim and if warranty was transferable rested with the owner. IOR has nothing resembling a "no hassles" or "no questions asked" warranty.
Scopesights, especially variable and lit reticle designs have many complexities that are likely to require service at some point in time.
I purchased a brand new 2-12x IOR-Valdada scope which exhibited great optical distortion from 2-5x and from 10-12x. The same scope would not focus either reticle and target crisply at any distance, and the glass MP-8 reticle had an oily film in the hashmark area.
The 4 - 14x I bought used (ebay) was not disclosed to have a crimped tube. When one of the two turret zeroing screws in the elvation turret snapped, I returned the scope to have the screw shank removed. IOR almost denied claim because the tube was crimped and I was not original owner. The screw was defective and the allen-head fastener, a tiny metric (of course) screw simply snapped. Cost me $25 to return the scope to get a defective screw replaced.
I will not buy another IOR product until the parent company upgrades its services and facilities here in the USA.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has IOR, or IOR-Valdada invested in this market by adding employees or a service facility? Just wondering...
Anyone considering purchasing any IOR product needs to find out about their warranty terms and service availability. Two years ago, when I owned 4 IOR scopesights, the scope tubes would crimp easily if owner tightened the scope rings over 15 inch pounds (1.25 foot pounds of torque), because the scope tubes were light tubing. At that time IOR-Valdada had only one employee plus the owner of the distributorship. Decisions as to what was qualified as a warranty claim and if warranty was transferable rested with the owner. IOR has nothing resembling a "no hassles" or "no questions asked" warranty.
Scopesights, especially variable and lit reticle designs have many complexities that are likely to require service at some point in time.
I purchased a brand new 2-12x IOR-Valdada scope which exhibited great optical distortion from 2-5x and from 10-12x. The same scope would not focus either reticle and target crisply at any distance, and the glass MP-8 reticle had an oily film in the hashmark area.
The 4 - 14x I bought used (ebay) was not disclosed to have a crimped tube. When one of the two turret zeroing screws in the elvation turret snapped, I returned the scope to have the screw shank removed. IOR almost denied claim because the tube was crimped and I was not original owner. The screw was defective and the allen-head fastener, a tiny metric (of course) screw simply snapped. Cost me $25 to return the scope to get a defective screw replaced.
I will not buy another IOR product until the parent company upgrades its services and facilities here in the USA. </div></div>
Sorry to hear of your problems with IOR service. How long ago did you this problem with the scopes? Maybe you got a bad one or a cheap copy of the IOR scopes, IOR scope tubes are like aluminum baseball bats, very heavy walled and stiff. Currently IOR's service will be no different than S&B's or any other European scope maker as almost all require the scopes to be returned to them at the factory for almost any sort of internal repair. If you still have an IOR scope call and talk to Scott at Liberty, he may be able to help you out.
HTH!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has IOR, or IOR-Valdada invested in this market by adding employees or a service facility? Just wondering...
Anyone considering purchasing any IOR product needs to find out about their warranty terms and service availability. Two years ago, when I owned 4 IOR scopesights, the scope tubes would crimp easily if owner tightened the scope rings over 15 inch pounds (1.25 foot pounds of torque), because the scope tubes were light tubing. At that time IOR-Valdada had only one employee plus the owner of the distributorship. Decisions as to what was qualified as a warranty claim and if warranty was transferable rested with the owner. IOR has nothing resembling a "no hassles" or "no questions asked" warranty.
Scopesights, especially variable and lit reticle designs have many complexities that are likely to require service at some point in time.
I purchased a brand new 2-12x IOR-Valdada scope which exhibited great optical distortion from 2-5x and from 10-12x. The same scope would not focus either reticle and target crisply at any distance, and the glass MP-8 reticle had an oily film in the hashmark area.
The 4 - 14x I bought used (ebay) was not disclosed to have a crimped tube. When one of the two turret zeroing screws in the elvation turret snapped, I returned the scope to have the screw shank removed. IOR almost denied claim because the tube was crimped and I was not original owner. The screw was defective and the allen-head fastener, a tiny metric (of course) screw simply snapped. Cost me $25 to return the scope to get a defective screw replaced.
I will not buy another IOR product until the parent company upgrades its services and facilities here in the USA. </div></div>
Sorry to hear of your problems with IOR service. How long ago did you this problem with the scopes? Maybe you got a bad one or a cheap copy of the IOR scopes, IOR scope tubes are like aluminum baseball bats, very heavy walled and stiff. Currently IOR's service will be no different than S&B's or any other European scope maker as almost all require the scopes to be returned to them at the factory for almost any sort of internal repair. If you still have an IOR scope call and talk to Scott at Liberty, he may be able to help you out.
HTH!
Re: IOR Thoughts?
The facts are these:
IOR does not have any service facilities or technical service employees in the USA.
IOR does not provide a transferable warranty.
IOR does not have a "no questions asked" warranty.
If IOR suspects you are at fault for any damages you may find your scope is just junk.
I talked with Berish and others about my IOR 2-12x. Bill Ackerman told me that my description of the reticle cloudiness meant there was oil on the etched glass reticle. I would have paid him to fix the scope, but he declines to work on them.
Several IOR distributors I spoke with stated that they had to go into their pockets to make things right for a customer when IOR would not honor what they felt was a valid warranty claim.
If you buy (or sell) a product from a company that allows business to be conducted in its name without any technical or service support, you reap what you sow. Profits on these scopesights must be pretty good, otherwise why sell them? Many others have had problems. If your orientation is "sales", you want to have what guys want to buy. If your orientation is "service", you offer reputable products from firms that deliver service and technical support. Always somebody willing to buy an item they perceive to be "quality", and can't imagine ever requiring service or repair.
I also have a background as a professional photographer and have owned a large number of top-tier riflescopes in the past 10 yrs; probably more than 20. NightForce, Zeiss Dialyt, Leupold mk4 fixed & LRT, Burris XTR.
I have reported my experience with IOR accurately and truthfully.
Warranty, service, and product specifications matter. One IOR dealer told me "Original IOR specs were cheapened to reduce importer/distributor cost". Likely, the European distributed IOR scopes don't get crimped tubes from scope ring screws being well-fastened.
Buy what you want. I was also told by the same dealer that "The IOR business model is based on replacing product rather than repairing it". As a result, they are very aggressive in denying claims where Leupold or Burris would just fix your scope.
Too bad IOR doesn't have facilities to replace turrets, reticles or main-tubes. Burris or Leupold do.
You are buying a scopesight, not a telescope for digiscoping. "Awesome glass" may not matter as much as a "no hassle, lifetime transferable warranty". Better not lose your sales receipt if you choose IOR. Good luck, and hopefully you'll never have a problem... Then there's the real world!
The facts are these:
IOR does not have any service facilities or technical service employees in the USA.
IOR does not provide a transferable warranty.
IOR does not have a "no questions asked" warranty.
If IOR suspects you are at fault for any damages you may find your scope is just junk.
I talked with Berish and others about my IOR 2-12x. Bill Ackerman told me that my description of the reticle cloudiness meant there was oil on the etched glass reticle. I would have paid him to fix the scope, but he declines to work on them.
Several IOR distributors I spoke with stated that they had to go into their pockets to make things right for a customer when IOR would not honor what they felt was a valid warranty claim.
If you buy (or sell) a product from a company that allows business to be conducted in its name without any technical or service support, you reap what you sow. Profits on these scopesights must be pretty good, otherwise why sell them? Many others have had problems. If your orientation is "sales", you want to have what guys want to buy. If your orientation is "service", you offer reputable products from firms that deliver service and technical support. Always somebody willing to buy an item they perceive to be "quality", and can't imagine ever requiring service or repair.
I also have a background as a professional photographer and have owned a large number of top-tier riflescopes in the past 10 yrs; probably more than 20. NightForce, Zeiss Dialyt, Leupold mk4 fixed & LRT, Burris XTR.
I have reported my experience with IOR accurately and truthfully.
Warranty, service, and product specifications matter. One IOR dealer told me "Original IOR specs were cheapened to reduce importer/distributor cost". Likely, the European distributed IOR scopes don't get crimped tubes from scope ring screws being well-fastened.
Buy what you want. I was also told by the same dealer that "The IOR business model is based on replacing product rather than repairing it". As a result, they are very aggressive in denying claims where Leupold or Burris would just fix your scope.
Too bad IOR doesn't have facilities to replace turrets, reticles or main-tubes. Burris or Leupold do.
You are buying a scopesight, not a telescope for digiscoping. "Awesome glass" may not matter as much as a "no hassle, lifetime transferable warranty". Better not lose your sales receipt if you choose IOR. Good luck, and hopefully you'll never have a problem... Then there's the real world!
Re: IOR Thoughts?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have reported my experience with IOR accurately and truthfully.
One IOR dealer told me "Original IOR specs were cheapened to reduce importer/distributor cost". Likely, the European distributed IOR scopes don't get crimped tubes from scope ring screws being well-fastened.
</div></div>
Name that dealer, asshat.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have reported my experience with IOR accurately and truthfully.
One IOR dealer told me "Original IOR specs were cheapened to reduce importer/distributor cost". Likely, the European distributed IOR scopes don't get crimped tubes from scope ring screws being well-fastened.
</div></div>
Name that dealer, asshat.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
Pro's of the IOR,
Scott at Liberty Optics will go out of his way to make you a deal.
Con's,
The eye relief takes a little to get used to.
Pro's of the IOR,
Scott at Liberty Optics will go out of his way to make you a deal.
Con's,
The eye relief takes a little to get used to.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The facts are these:
IOR does not have any service facilities or technical service employees in the USA.
IOR does not provide a transferable warranty.
IOR does not have a "no questions asked" warranty.
If IOR suspects you are at fault for any damages you may find your scope is just junk.
I talked with Berish and others about my IOR 2-12x. Bill Ackerman told me that my description of the reticle cloudiness meant there was oil on the etched glass reticle. I would have paid him to fix the scope, but he declines to work on them.
Several IOR distributors I spoke with stated that they had to go into their pockets to make things right for a customer when IOR would not honor what they felt was a valid warranty claim.
If you buy (or sell) a product from a company that allows business to be conducted in its name without any technical or service support, you reap what you sow. Profits on these scopesights must be pretty good, otherwise why sell them? Many others have had problems. If your orientation is "sales", you want to have what guys want to buy. If your orientation is "service", you offer reputable products from firms that deliver service and technical support. Always somebody willing to buy an item they perceive to be "quality", and can't imagine ever requiring service or repair.
I also have a background as a professional photographer and have owned a large number of top-tier riflescopes in the past 10 yrs; probably more than 20. NightForce, Zeiss Dialyt, Leupold mk4 fixed & LRT, Burris XTR.
I have reported my experience with IOR accurately and truthfully.
Warranty, service, and product specifications matter. One IOR dealer told me "Original IOR specs were cheapened to reduce importer/distributor cost". Likely, the European distributed IOR scopes don't get crimped tubes from scope ring screws being well-fastened.
Buy what you want. I was also told by the same dealer that "The IOR business model is based on replacing product rather than repairing it". As a result, they are very aggressive in denying claims where Leupold or Burris would just fix your scope.
Too bad IOR doesn't have facilities to replace turrets, reticles or main-tubes. Burris or Leupold do.
You are buying a scopesight, not a telescope for digiscoping. "Awesome glass" may not matter as much as a "no hassle, lifetime transferable warranty". Better not lose your sales receipt if you choose IOR. Good luck, and hopefully you'll never have a problem... Then there's the real world! </div></div>
You got stung by an IOR as a kid didnt you?
I disagree, I like mine just fine...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The facts are these:
IOR does not have any service facilities or technical service employees in the USA.
IOR does not provide a transferable warranty.
IOR does not have a "no questions asked" warranty.
If IOR suspects you are at fault for any damages you may find your scope is just junk.
I talked with Berish and others about my IOR 2-12x. Bill Ackerman told me that my description of the reticle cloudiness meant there was oil on the etched glass reticle. I would have paid him to fix the scope, but he declines to work on them.
Several IOR distributors I spoke with stated that they had to go into their pockets to make things right for a customer when IOR would not honor what they felt was a valid warranty claim.
If you buy (or sell) a product from a company that allows business to be conducted in its name without any technical or service support, you reap what you sow. Profits on these scopesights must be pretty good, otherwise why sell them? Many others have had problems. If your orientation is "sales", you want to have what guys want to buy. If your orientation is "service", you offer reputable products from firms that deliver service and technical support. Always somebody willing to buy an item they perceive to be "quality", and can't imagine ever requiring service or repair.
I also have a background as a professional photographer and have owned a large number of top-tier riflescopes in the past 10 yrs; probably more than 20. NightForce, Zeiss Dialyt, Leupold mk4 fixed & LRT, Burris XTR.
I have reported my experience with IOR accurately and truthfully.
Warranty, service, and product specifications matter. One IOR dealer told me "Original IOR specs were cheapened to reduce importer/distributor cost". Likely, the European distributed IOR scopes don't get crimped tubes from scope ring screws being well-fastened.
Buy what you want. I was also told by the same dealer that "The IOR business model is based on replacing product rather than repairing it". As a result, they are very aggressive in denying claims where Leupold or Burris would just fix your scope.
Too bad IOR doesn't have facilities to replace turrets, reticles or main-tubes. Burris or Leupold do.
You are buying a scopesight, not a telescope for digiscoping. "Awesome glass" may not matter as much as a "no hassle, lifetime transferable warranty". Better not lose your sales receipt if you choose IOR. Good luck, and hopefully you'll never have a problem... Then there's the real world! </div></div>
You got stung by an IOR as a kid didnt you?
Re: IOR Thoughts?
Someone reminds me of a mall ninja with an axe to grind. IOR has its problems as to all manufactured goods. However, if you get it from Liberty Optics aka Scott, its a good scope to own. Glass is fantastic and great bang for the buck.
Someone reminds me of a mall ninja with an axe to grind. IOR has its problems as to all manufactured goods. However, if you get it from Liberty Optics aka Scott, its a good scope to own. Glass is fantastic and great bang for the buck.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
Really, I think swamper joined the 'hide to bash IOR's (he's been jumping IOR threads with this shit for the whole two years he's been here).
As for his "good luck if you buy one used":
Valdada extended warranty to me on an SH 3-18FFP that I bought used. (I didn't need the service other than to update the turrets as the first run gen I model I got had the mis-marked ones and was never updated). I called Littleton before I bought the scope and Val was actually very pleasant and helpful and assured me if I had any problem it would be covered.
IOR has come a long way, and granted, Val has been a jerk to folks in years gone by, but their tune (both Romania regarding what we want here, and Valdada regarding CS) has changed greatly over the past few years. I actually think Scott may have taught Val what CS is about by his great example of it everytime someone's needed anything he could help with.
To quote a guy that has really been helpful, both to IOR as a company here in the states and to the end users of IORs here in the states-
"Asshat!"
Really, I think swamper joined the 'hide to bash IOR's (he's been jumping IOR threads with this shit for the whole two years he's been here).
As for his "good luck if you buy one used":
Valdada extended warranty to me on an SH 3-18FFP that I bought used. (I didn't need the service other than to update the turrets as the first run gen I model I got had the mis-marked ones and was never updated). I called Littleton before I bought the scope and Val was actually very pleasant and helpful and assured me if I had any problem it would be covered.
IOR has come a long way, and granted, Val has been a jerk to folks in years gone by, but their tune (both Romania regarding what we want here, and Valdada regarding CS) has changed greatly over the past few years. I actually think Scott may have taught Val what CS is about by his great example of it everytime someone's needed anything he could help with.
To quote a guy that has really been helpful, both to IOR as a company here in the states and to the end users of IORs here in the states-
"Asshat!"
Re: IOR Thoughts?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rem700p</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, so the first hash from the dot is 1 milrad from the dot? and then every hash afterwards is .5? Just wanting to clarify. </div></div>
No, it's .5 Mil from the dot on the SH 3-18. A better pic:
Many of the older versions of the MP-8 did not have a hash the first .5 Mil from center--IOR never seems to have the correct pic and description for each version of the reticle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rem700p</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, so the first hash from the dot is 1 milrad from the dot? and then every hash afterwards is .5? Just wanting to clarify. </div></div>
No, it's .5 Mil from the dot on the SH 3-18. A better pic:
Many of the older versions of the MP-8 did not have a hash the first .5 Mil from center--IOR never seems to have the correct pic and description for each version of the reticle.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
IOR has come a long way, and granted, Val has been a jerk to folks in years gone by, but their tune (both Romania regarding what we want here, and Valdada regarding CS) has changed greatly over the past few years. I actually think Scott may have taught Val what CS is about by his great example of it everytime someone's needed anything he could help with.
</div></div>
Like some others, I bought one of the 'soft tube' IOR's directly from IOR Valdada. I compounded the error by trying to use a set of the rings that IOR sold at the time. End result: not just a crimped tube, but a busted lens inside. Was it covered under warranty? No, but Val did offer to give me a 'good deal,’ by offering to sell me a replacement scope at his cost. He also gave me the e-mail address of some guy in Romania if I wanted to try to get the factory to fix the scope.
So has IOR customer service improved? Not as far as I am concerned. I have been told they no ‘Americanize’ their scopes by changing the knob markings to MOA while leaving the threads metric, so maybe they are improving.
All four of the IOR’s I own (which still work) have knobs marked in MOA, but actually adjust in MILs. In my opinion the glass is good, nearly as good as Premier and S&B, and noticeably better than Nightforce and USO. I like the MP-8 reticle. There are no zero stops, and resetting the knobs to zero is a real pain in the ass. All my IOR’s now reside on hunting or beater rifles.
Are the IOR’s worth the money? In my mind it is a crap shoot. You may get a good one. If you buy from a reputable dealer (Scott Berrish at Liberty Optics would be my first choice), then you have a very good chance of having any problems dealt with. I think the IOR’s are an excellent choice for mall ninjas, gun fondlers and guys who just don’t shoot very much. There is a reason you don’t see many IOR scopes in the top 10 at major matches. Buyer beware.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
IOR has come a long way, and granted, Val has been a jerk to folks in years gone by, but their tune (both Romania regarding what we want here, and Valdada regarding CS) has changed greatly over the past few years. I actually think Scott may have taught Val what CS is about by his great example of it everytime someone's needed anything he could help with.
</div></div>
Like some others, I bought one of the 'soft tube' IOR's directly from IOR Valdada. I compounded the error by trying to use a set of the rings that IOR sold at the time. End result: not just a crimped tube, but a busted lens inside. Was it covered under warranty? No, but Val did offer to give me a 'good deal,’ by offering to sell me a replacement scope at his cost. He also gave me the e-mail address of some guy in Romania if I wanted to try to get the factory to fix the scope.
So has IOR customer service improved? Not as far as I am concerned. I have been told they no ‘Americanize’ their scopes by changing the knob markings to MOA while leaving the threads metric, so maybe they are improving.
All four of the IOR’s I own (which still work) have knobs marked in MOA, but actually adjust in MILs. In my opinion the glass is good, nearly as good as Premier and S&B, and noticeably better than Nightforce and USO. I like the MP-8 reticle. There are no zero stops, and resetting the knobs to zero is a real pain in the ass. All my IOR’s now reside on hunting or beater rifles.
Are the IOR’s worth the money? In my mind it is a crap shoot. You may get a good one. If you buy from a reputable dealer (Scott Berrish at Liberty Optics would be my first choice), then you have a very good chance of having any problems dealt with. I think the IOR’s are an excellent choice for mall ninjas, gun fondlers and guys who just don’t shoot very much. There is a reason you don’t see many IOR scopes in the top 10 at major matches. Buyer beware.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
How "sober" is it to conjecture about things you know nothing of?
I wonder why Mr. Berish has to resort to calling me a name?
Perhaps Mr. Berish was too drunk to remember phoning me in late April 2007? I did not request him to call. He asked me for my phone #. Sure had no idea he would call at about 11pm his time, on a Friday night, and want to talk for over 30mins; but he did.
Scott did mention how Val (the IOR owner) was a big SOB, and had denied valid warranty claims and that he had had to dig into his pocket to make good when IOR-Valdada would not.
I was told by an IOR dealer, and it may have been Berish, that IOR-Valdada specified that the factory use lighter grade, (thinner-wall tubing), and other cost-cutting measures on the scopes they imported.
Just like I had never heard the term, "Six Multiplier Scope" until IOR-Valdada's Scott (it get's confusing), said to me, "We've had problems with our Six Multiplier (2-12 & 3-18) scopes"; it never dawned on me until the dealer told me of lighter tubing being used that any scopesight mfr might do that at all.
I have no need to "name the other dealer". I do recall Scott also griping about Val the owner, and how "much worse it was dealing with IOR before he hired (the other) Scott". Berish spent about 25 mins comiserating with me about IOR, and telling me stuff I did not ask to hear; but this was after he confirmed the 2-12 was defective.
Until Mr. Berish began attacking me in threads like this, where I have posted only my experience and what dealers (including Berish) said to me, I held him in no disdain and might have bought a scope from him someday.
The fact that Berish seeks to antagonize and cast dispersions upon someone who chooses to report experiences that might cause him to lose business, really says volumes about Berish.
I once bought a Leupold 16x mk4 mil-dot scope. The reticle was dirty. I sent it to L&S for repair/cleaning and it was fixed and back in my hands in about 8 days.
None of the comments about how pleased guys are with their purchases are related to what I am saying. Cool, that so many are happy with their purchases.
A lot of guys, in our consumer society, think they are what they buy and own. Maybe you have to own "the best", or think less of yourself if others don't think your gear is "worthy"? Who the fuck knows?
What I do know is that IOR-Valdada is a two-man/one employee operation that has no technical service, no warranty service, and can't even afford to hire a receptionist to answer the phone. I also know that any warranty you have is not transferable to a new owner, unlike Burris, Leupold, Zeiss, or others. Furthermore, any warranty you may have does not cover damages under any circumstance, unlike other scopesight manufacturers.
Buyer Beware is all I am saying.
I voted with my feet and pocketbook and it cost me about $400 to unload my IOR scopes. Unlike NightForce, Leupold, Burris XTR; I found I could not sell used IOR, even in excellent like new condition, unless I gave it away.
Scott Berish and other IOR-Valdada dealers might make their customers aware of the IOR Eccentricities before they make a sale, but that might cost them business.
Berish has shown himself recently to be very obnoxious on several threads. Business is tough these days. Guys don't have the money to blow on toys the way they did a year ago. Maybe there are quotas to meet to keep dealerships?
Much of what you spend in the pricetag of a scopesight is related to the warranty. Variable scopes with illuminated reticles, bought by "discerning consumers" will have many warranty and return costs. The manufacturers account for this in their pricing. If you buy IOR you get hardly any warranty benefit, no service facility benefit, and good luck selling the item down the road for anything near what you paid for it. But hey, you're getting "great glass"!
How "sober" is it to conjecture about things you know nothing of?
I wonder why Mr. Berish has to resort to calling me a name?
Perhaps Mr. Berish was too drunk to remember phoning me in late April 2007? I did not request him to call. He asked me for my phone #. Sure had no idea he would call at about 11pm his time, on a Friday night, and want to talk for over 30mins; but he did.
Scott did mention how Val (the IOR owner) was a big SOB, and had denied valid warranty claims and that he had had to dig into his pocket to make good when IOR-Valdada would not.
I was told by an IOR dealer, and it may have been Berish, that IOR-Valdada specified that the factory use lighter grade, (thinner-wall tubing), and other cost-cutting measures on the scopes they imported.
Just like I had never heard the term, "Six Multiplier Scope" until IOR-Valdada's Scott (it get's confusing), said to me, "We've had problems with our Six Multiplier (2-12 & 3-18) scopes"; it never dawned on me until the dealer told me of lighter tubing being used that any scopesight mfr might do that at all.
I have no need to "name the other dealer". I do recall Scott also griping about Val the owner, and how "much worse it was dealing with IOR before he hired (the other) Scott". Berish spent about 25 mins comiserating with me about IOR, and telling me stuff I did not ask to hear; but this was after he confirmed the 2-12 was defective.
Until Mr. Berish began attacking me in threads like this, where I have posted only my experience and what dealers (including Berish) said to me, I held him in no disdain and might have bought a scope from him someday.
The fact that Berish seeks to antagonize and cast dispersions upon someone who chooses to report experiences that might cause him to lose business, really says volumes about Berish.
I once bought a Leupold 16x mk4 mil-dot scope. The reticle was dirty. I sent it to L&S for repair/cleaning and it was fixed and back in my hands in about 8 days.
None of the comments about how pleased guys are with their purchases are related to what I am saying. Cool, that so many are happy with their purchases.
A lot of guys, in our consumer society, think they are what they buy and own. Maybe you have to own "the best", or think less of yourself if others don't think your gear is "worthy"? Who the fuck knows?
What I do know is that IOR-Valdada is a two-man/one employee operation that has no technical service, no warranty service, and can't even afford to hire a receptionist to answer the phone. I also know that any warranty you have is not transferable to a new owner, unlike Burris, Leupold, Zeiss, or others. Furthermore, any warranty you may have does not cover damages under any circumstance, unlike other scopesight manufacturers.
Buyer Beware is all I am saying.
I voted with my feet and pocketbook and it cost me about $400 to unload my IOR scopes. Unlike NightForce, Leupold, Burris XTR; I found I could not sell used IOR, even in excellent like new condition, unless I gave it away.
Scott Berish and other IOR-Valdada dealers might make their customers aware of the IOR Eccentricities before they make a sale, but that might cost them business.
Berish has shown himself recently to be very obnoxious on several threads. Business is tough these days. Guys don't have the money to blow on toys the way they did a year ago. Maybe there are quotas to meet to keep dealerships?
Much of what you spend in the pricetag of a scopesight is related to the warranty. Variable scopes with illuminated reticles, bought by "discerning consumers" will have many warranty and return costs. The manufacturers account for this in their pricing. If you buy IOR you get hardly any warranty benefit, no service facility benefit, and good luck selling the item down the road for anything near what you paid for it. But hey, you're getting "great glass"!
Re: IOR Thoughts?
Swamper, enough. We all read your poor boohoo tales over and over again for 2 years regarding IOR.
Some of us are quite happy with the products. Some have had them corrected, and perhaps a few are not happy. However, just because you have a burr in your diaper doesn't mean the rest of us have to read paragraph after paragraph of your diatribes. Give it a rest, we know you don't like the product, don't buy them again, go bad mouth them over on SWFA's forum for a while and let us enjoy the Hide! Sheesh!!!
In fact, if memory serves me right, Lowlight put a ban on bad mouthing companies on the Hide didn't he? Maybe a Moderator could chime in and correct me if I am wrong on that.
Swamper, enough. We all read your poor boohoo tales over and over again for 2 years regarding IOR.
Some of us are quite happy with the products. Some have had them corrected, and perhaps a few are not happy. However, just because you have a burr in your diaper doesn't mean the rest of us have to read paragraph after paragraph of your diatribes. Give it a rest, we know you don't like the product, don't buy them again, go bad mouth them over on SWFA's forum for a while and let us enjoy the Hide! Sheesh!!!
In fact, if memory serves me right, Lowlight put a ban on bad mouthing companies on the Hide didn't he? Maybe a Moderator could chime in and correct me if I am wrong on that.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guns4570</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Swamper, enough. We all read your poor boohoo tales over and over again for 2 years regarding IOR.
However, just because you have a burr in your diaper doesn't mean the rest of us have to read paragraph after paragraph of your diatribes.
Tis Better to be Thought a Fool than to Speakup and Remove all Doubt!
</div></div>
Who is making you read his comments? If you don't have anything useful to add, perhaps you might want to heed your little quote.
Cheers,
DC
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guns4570</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Swamper, enough. We all read your poor boohoo tales over and over again for 2 years regarding IOR.
However, just because you have a burr in your diaper doesn't mean the rest of us have to read paragraph after paragraph of your diatribes.
Tis Better to be Thought a Fool than to Speakup and Remove all Doubt!
</div></div>
Who is making you read his comments? If you don't have anything useful to add, perhaps you might want to heed your little quote.
Cheers,
DC
Re: IOR Thoughts?
That's why there is a "ignore this user" function. If I want to hear whining about the same old shit all I need to do is go over to my brother's house, he has 4 kids + a wife who has a PHD in pissing and moaning.
That's why there is a "ignore this user" function. If I want to hear whining about the same old shit all I need to do is go over to my brother's house, he has 4 kids + a wife who has a PHD in pissing and moaning.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
I have purchased and own a number of IOR scopes. I curently have a 2.5x10, 3x CQB, and finaly the SH edition 3x18 FFP. I had a problem on the 3x18 when I first received it with paint flaking off the inside of the tube. I contacted Scott Berish about the problem and he in turn told IOR America that I would be sending my scope in for warranty work. I had a new scope 6 days after I sent my scope to IOR for service. If that's not service I don't know what the Hell is! Scott has never been anything but a consumate professional to do business with. The IOR scopes I have purchased have all been very good products. I'm very partial to IOR's glass.
In my opinion IOR is a good deal. The glass is on par with the high end scopes (in my opinion much better than NF or Leupold), and the 3x18 FFP model has some very nice features for the money. Buy a 3x18 from Liberty Optics and buy it with the confidence that Scott is good people and you are getting a quality optic for a very reasonable price.
I have purchased and own a number of IOR scopes. I curently have a 2.5x10, 3x CQB, and finaly the SH edition 3x18 FFP. I had a problem on the 3x18 when I first received it with paint flaking off the inside of the tube. I contacted Scott Berish about the problem and he in turn told IOR America that I would be sending my scope in for warranty work. I had a new scope 6 days after I sent my scope to IOR for service. If that's not service I don't know what the Hell is! Scott has never been anything but a consumate professional to do business with. The IOR scopes I have purchased have all been very good products. I'm very partial to IOR's glass.
In my opinion IOR is a good deal. The glass is on par with the high end scopes (in my opinion much better than NF or Leupold), and the 3x18 FFP model has some very nice features for the money. Buy a 3x18 from Liberty Optics and buy it with the confidence that Scott is good people and you are getting a quality optic for a very reasonable price.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
I have a 2.5-10 with illu mp8. The only issue I have ever had was it likes to eat batteries( I think there might be a short to a DC ground in the battery circut somewhere). But as far as a scope goes. Ive put it head to head with an ST-10 to check its tracking, and it was comparable and the Mp8 reticle will spoil you, especially for shooting at small targets. They might not be as robust as a USO or comparable but bang for buck you cannot go wrong whatsoever.
I have a 2.5-10 with illu mp8. The only issue I have ever had was it likes to eat batteries( I think there might be a short to a DC ground in the battery circut somewhere). But as far as a scope goes. Ive put it head to head with an ST-10 to check its tracking, and it was comparable and the Mp8 reticle will spoil you, especially for shooting at small targets. They might not be as robust as a USO or comparable but bang for buck you cannot go wrong whatsoever.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
Hmmmm, I was seriously thinking about getting an IOR but I am not so sure about it now. I guess I'll save up and get a Nightforce instead.
Hmmmm, I was seriously thinking about getting an IOR but I am not so sure about it now. I guess I'll save up and get a Nightforce instead.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
So how many and what models of IOR scopes has "swamper" owned? And what were the issues he had with them? Or is all his opinions and knowledge just "A guys told me" or "i heard from this one guy"? Any personal experience or just talking out your ass?
So how many and what models of IOR scopes has "swamper" owned? And what were the issues he had with them? Or is all his opinions and knowledge just "A guys told me" or "i heard from this one guy"? Any personal experience or just talking out your ass?
Re: IOR Thoughts?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 99HMC4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So how many and what models of IOR scopes has "swamper" owned? And what were the issues he had with them? Or is all his opinions and knowledge just "A guys told me" or "i heard from this one guy"? Any personal experience or just talking out your ass?</div></div>
Pay attention, he gives a very specific list and problems with said scopes. Dont be a piler onner.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I purchased a brand new 2-12x IOR-Valdada scope which exhibited great optical distortion from 2-5x and from 10-12x. The same scope would not focus either reticle and target crisply at any distance, and the glass MP-8 reticle had an oily film in the hashmark area.
The 4 - 14x I bought used (ebay) was not disclosed to have a crimped tube. When one of the two turret zeroing screws in the elvation turret snapped, I returned the scope to have the screw shank removed. IOR almost denied claim because the tube was crimped and I was not original owner. The screw was defective and the allen-head fastener, a tiny metric (of course) screw simply snapped. Cost me $25 to return the scope to get a defective screw replaced.
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 99HMC4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So how many and what models of IOR scopes has "swamper" owned? And what were the issues he had with them? Or is all his opinions and knowledge just "A guys told me" or "i heard from this one guy"? Any personal experience or just talking out your ass?</div></div>
Pay attention, he gives a very specific list and problems with said scopes. Dont be a piler onner.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I purchased a brand new 2-12x IOR-Valdada scope which exhibited great optical distortion from 2-5x and from 10-12x. The same scope would not focus either reticle and target crisply at any distance, and the glass MP-8 reticle had an oily film in the hashmark area.
The 4 - 14x I bought used (ebay) was not disclosed to have a crimped tube. When one of the two turret zeroing screws in the elvation turret snapped, I returned the scope to have the screw shank removed. IOR almost denied claim because the tube was crimped and I was not original owner. The screw was defective and the allen-head fastener, a tiny metric (of course) screw simply snapped. Cost me $25 to return the scope to get a defective screw replaced.
</div></div>
Re: IOR Thoughts?
I had one of their 6-24 pieces of shit and the damn parallax knob locked up so I sent it in for repair. I talked to some asshole and they told me it was because of my canted reminton mount but I then got on the phone with scott over there and he seemed to have his head out of his ass but in the end the cock suckers still made me pay $300 or their error. I will never own one again!
I had one of their 6-24 pieces of shit and the damn parallax knob locked up so I sent it in for repair. I talked to some asshole and they told me it was because of my canted reminton mount but I then got on the phone with scott over there and he seemed to have his head out of his ass but in the end the cock suckers still made me pay $300 or their error. I will never own one again!
Re: IOR Thoughts?
6x 42mm Bucuresti w/euro reticle (kept)
10x 56mm Bucuresti w/lit reticle (returned)
10x 50mm Valdada MP8 (sold)
4-14x 50mm Valdada MP8 Illum reticle (sold)
2-12x Valdada MP8 illum reticle (sold)
Just wondering why the rudeness and mean-spirited shit from so many on this thread? I have not said any of you were dumbasses for buying IOR. The originator of this thread wanted "IOR thoughts". I provided mine.
Maybe your IOR-Valdada scope will never have a problem?
Maybe you will never want to sell it?
Maybe you will always "love the MP8 reticle"?
Maybe you will never want different turrets?
Maybe you will never lose your receipt or other proof you are the original retail buyer?
Maybe you will never tighten your scope rings beyond 15 inch pounds? Unless you IOR fans each own a $200+ super-sensitive low-value inch pound torque wrench, you might have already over-tightened your rings.... Oops! There goes your warranty... 15 ips is nothing, but exceed that, or if your scope shows some rub marks that IOR might construe as your having exceeded their spec, and see what happens...
I am entitled to post my experiences on any thread that relates.
From my perspective IOR in Romania might build a great product, but they don't give a damn about the USA market or they would invest some money to service and repair their product.
Saw something today about how Harley-Davidson sales are down 91% from this time last year.
Rather doubt that a lot of companies are going to remain in business, if their market is mainly catering to high-spending guys who don't have the credit or income to spend any longer. IOR is a one-man company. If that man dies, or goes bankrupt where are the dealers and USA customers? Who's gonna honor your warranty then?
If you are buying scope rings, a base, a replacement bolt body, a sling, a stock; then maybe you don't care about who you buy from. It will either work or it won't. But a variable scope is a very complex optical machine. They break and need adjustment all the time. Maybe your battery leaks and you need a new circuit?
Buying from a one-man company who has a great product, but nothing invested in staying in business might just leave you holding the bag...
6x 42mm Bucuresti w/euro reticle (kept)
10x 56mm Bucuresti w/lit reticle (returned)
10x 50mm Valdada MP8 (sold)
4-14x 50mm Valdada MP8 Illum reticle (sold)
2-12x Valdada MP8 illum reticle (sold)
Just wondering why the rudeness and mean-spirited shit from so many on this thread? I have not said any of you were dumbasses for buying IOR. The originator of this thread wanted "IOR thoughts". I provided mine.
Maybe your IOR-Valdada scope will never have a problem?
Maybe you will never want to sell it?
Maybe you will always "love the MP8 reticle"?
Maybe you will never want different turrets?
Maybe you will never lose your receipt or other proof you are the original retail buyer?
Maybe you will never tighten your scope rings beyond 15 inch pounds? Unless you IOR fans each own a $200+ super-sensitive low-value inch pound torque wrench, you might have already over-tightened your rings.... Oops! There goes your warranty... 15 ips is nothing, but exceed that, or if your scope shows some rub marks that IOR might construe as your having exceeded their spec, and see what happens...
I am entitled to post my experiences on any thread that relates.
From my perspective IOR in Romania might build a great product, but they don't give a damn about the USA market or they would invest some money to service and repair their product.
Saw something today about how Harley-Davidson sales are down 91% from this time last year.
Rather doubt that a lot of companies are going to remain in business, if their market is mainly catering to high-spending guys who don't have the credit or income to spend any longer. IOR is a one-man company. If that man dies, or goes bankrupt where are the dealers and USA customers? Who's gonna honor your warranty then?
If you are buying scope rings, a base, a replacement bolt body, a sling, a stock; then maybe you don't care about who you buy from. It will either work or it won't. But a variable scope is a very complex optical machine. They break and need adjustment all the time. Maybe your battery leaks and you need a new circuit?
Buying from a one-man company who has a great product, but nothing invested in staying in business might just leave you holding the bag...
Re: IOR Thoughts?
Ed Hogan of Talkeetna Alaska (former Texas mall ninja)aka "Swamper"
I'm OK if you stick with the facts. I'm not the biggest IOR fan at times either, and if you knew what the heck you were talking about, you would know there are countless times when I've guided a customer away from a problematic choice of IOR scopes due to issues I foresaw, based on experience. Let's face it, though, that's my business. Just like it's my business I've sold more IOR scopes than you will ever own. Let's say 1000 scopes, as a nice round number. How does that sample size compare to your experience, Ed? Who qualifies as the expert here?
No question, many IOR scopes have been total turds, absolutely worthless. Also, no question, there have been many that have been damn near bulletproof, and I've got the emails and letter to prove it from many happy customers. Again, that's my business, not yours.
I think sobrbiker hit it on the head, you joined the Hide here on a mission to bash IOR and libel as many dealers as you could, b/c you told me no ever cheats Ed Hogan, and you would do whatever it takes to get even. I think you've got your $400 worth, don't you?
So, how else do you contribute here?
I never attacked you, I just defended myself against your accusations and lies. Which I'm going to do here again.
First, I don't know what you are talking about re: I sought out your number. You buy a scope third hand from another person, have an issue with it, deal with it, don't like what you get, and I call you?? Nope. You heard I was "the guy" to see about IOR scopes and wanted me to straighten your mess. You called me several times, unsolicited, to see if I could help.
Second, your charge that I was "too drunk" to remember talking to you, that's the same thing as me stating every time we talked on the phone you were making funny noises as your male lover was having his way with you (isn't Alaska 90% male?).....an utterly ridiculous, nasty, and pointless statement that serves no purpose except to cause trouble (oooooo, did I just plant the seed with the members here that you might not be straight???) Your accusation is a total lie.
Third, I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE that Valdada has EVER spec'd their scopes with thinner tubing, or any other watered down spec for the tactical scopes on the import market, versus the European market, as you've accused me of in the past. I see you think you're cute and clever to now say "it might have been Berish" who said this, as this is a very serious accusation with which you have no evidence to back up, which serves no purpose other than to damage our reputation in public, which, since the accusation is untrue, is against the law, isn't it? Huh, Ed? Aren't you the lawsuit expert?
All your other "facts" you relate here, in events that occurred over two years ago, is just a bunch of hearsay and venomous rhetoric. "Buyer Beware" is not what you're saying, what your saying is that the IOR USA franchise and its dealers are engaging in a systematic deception of the shooting public. Just like Big Tobacco and W.R. Grace, eh Ed? Why don't you write the FTC or take us all to court?
The world has wronged you.
I'm flattered you've been following all my threads, but when it comes to obnoxious, you take the prize. Your latest post, with the "F-bomb", is just skimming the surface of the depth of your despair. You were the worst person I've ever dealt with in six years of business. As I've stated, Valdada has a answering machine tape in a file that has you leaving a very vile and disgusting "homo-erotic" message on it. That's what I call evidence.
Seriously, I've wasted too much time with you. IMO, you are a cancer on this forum and the proper treatment is excision, but such is not my call. You belong on ARFCOM if you are not already a member. I'm sure you'd find an audience there, to hang on your every word.
Until then, I guess I'll have to keep countering your lying BS with my side of things.
Rudeness and mean-spirited? C'mon Ed, you have that in spades. I never sold you ONE of your IOR scopes and I get this crap turned on me.
Peace be with you, Ed. You seem to be a seriously troubled soul.
Scott
Ed Hogan of Talkeetna Alaska (former Texas mall ninja)aka "Swamper"
I'm OK if you stick with the facts. I'm not the biggest IOR fan at times either, and if you knew what the heck you were talking about, you would know there are countless times when I've guided a customer away from a problematic choice of IOR scopes due to issues I foresaw, based on experience. Let's face it, though, that's my business. Just like it's my business I've sold more IOR scopes than you will ever own. Let's say 1000 scopes, as a nice round number. How does that sample size compare to your experience, Ed? Who qualifies as the expert here?
No question, many IOR scopes have been total turds, absolutely worthless. Also, no question, there have been many that have been damn near bulletproof, and I've got the emails and letter to prove it from many happy customers. Again, that's my business, not yours.
I think sobrbiker hit it on the head, you joined the Hide here on a mission to bash IOR and libel as many dealers as you could, b/c you told me no ever cheats Ed Hogan, and you would do whatever it takes to get even. I think you've got your $400 worth, don't you?
So, how else do you contribute here?
I never attacked you, I just defended myself against your accusations and lies. Which I'm going to do here again.
First, I don't know what you are talking about re: I sought out your number. You buy a scope third hand from another person, have an issue with it, deal with it, don't like what you get, and I call you?? Nope. You heard I was "the guy" to see about IOR scopes and wanted me to straighten your mess. You called me several times, unsolicited, to see if I could help.
Second, your charge that I was "too drunk" to remember talking to you, that's the same thing as me stating every time we talked on the phone you were making funny noises as your male lover was having his way with you (isn't Alaska 90% male?).....an utterly ridiculous, nasty, and pointless statement that serves no purpose except to cause trouble (oooooo, did I just plant the seed with the members here that you might not be straight???) Your accusation is a total lie.
Third, I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE that Valdada has EVER spec'd their scopes with thinner tubing, or any other watered down spec for the tactical scopes on the import market, versus the European market, as you've accused me of in the past. I see you think you're cute and clever to now say "it might have been Berish" who said this, as this is a very serious accusation with which you have no evidence to back up, which serves no purpose other than to damage our reputation in public, which, since the accusation is untrue, is against the law, isn't it? Huh, Ed? Aren't you the lawsuit expert?
All your other "facts" you relate here, in events that occurred over two years ago, is just a bunch of hearsay and venomous rhetoric. "Buyer Beware" is not what you're saying, what your saying is that the IOR USA franchise and its dealers are engaging in a systematic deception of the shooting public. Just like Big Tobacco and W.R. Grace, eh Ed? Why don't you write the FTC or take us all to court?
I'm flattered you've been following all my threads, but when it comes to obnoxious, you take the prize. Your latest post, with the "F-bomb", is just skimming the surface of the depth of your despair. You were the worst person I've ever dealt with in six years of business. As I've stated, Valdada has a answering machine tape in a file that has you leaving a very vile and disgusting "homo-erotic" message on it. That's what I call evidence.
Seriously, I've wasted too much time with you. IMO, you are a cancer on this forum and the proper treatment is excision, but such is not my call. You belong on ARFCOM if you are not already a member. I'm sure you'd find an audience there, to hang on your every word.
Until then, I guess I'll have to keep countering your lying BS with my side of things.
Rudeness and mean-spirited? C'mon Ed, you have that in spades. I never sold you ONE of your IOR scopes and I get this crap turned on me.
Peace be with you, Ed. You seem to be a seriously troubled soul.
Scott
Re: IOR Thoughts?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How "sober" is it to conjecture about things you know nothing of?
</div></div>
The only conjecture in my post was that you joined the 'hide to discredit IOR every chance you could. I've seen you do it many many times in the past two years, whenever IOR discussions came up.
The rest of my post sticks to what I know of, my experience with IOR Valdada and Liberty Optics and how those experiences have been the opposite of the experiences you claim.
The sober part of that is calling it like I see it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How "sober" is it to conjecture about things you know nothing of?
</div></div>
The only conjecture in my post was that you joined the 'hide to discredit IOR every chance you could. I've seen you do it many many times in the past two years, whenever IOR discussions came up.
The rest of my post sticks to what I know of, my experience with IOR Valdada and Liberty Optics and how those experiences have been the opposite of the experiences you claim.
The sober part of that is calling it like I see it.
Re: IOR Thoughts?////EXPERIENCES ALSO..
OK : breifly... IOR 4-14 illum. mp8 reticle on 308 semi with a few years rounds fired; got it and started shooting it when I first joined the Hide... no problems, I like it at least as well as the Leupolds and Swarovski glass I have had..
IIRC I saw something on the coloring of the ring on the scope to tell if the generation you are looking at is the most recent or not and that the first imported ones...that do have clear outside markings ( whether it has a blue ring or not or something like that).
I just know I do like mine and it was not as expensive as some scopes out there that have a larger and dedicated following and are higher dollar and whose resale are perhaps better..where I am having a hard time to decide between different scopes is when I am comparing the rare used super quality and extra high dollar scope for an amount I can get the IOR valdada at in Genereation III.. which for me has been a really rare occurence to find it and actually get to scoop it up timely for that kind of price.. Mine was around Eleven hundred cash dollars at a local dealer.. If I can afford what the experienced here would suggest is the best regardless of the cost, then I will get one of those; if that is not within budget and time constraints, then I am trying to find the best deal on the IOR or one of the best Leupolds new and comparing that to the used upper crust scopes... it is hard to find really great deals on the used scopes reputed to be better than IOR... that is just my experience.. I have not the experience of owning several of the best and all the other ones that can be compared... I have had a lot of Leupold Vari x IIIs and some swarovskis over the last twenty or thirty years...and the IOR is actually better than those by a noticeable amount, to my mind..
I will buy from Liberty or a Local.. someone that will do me right and either one will, from what I understand.
dk
OK : breifly... IOR 4-14 illum. mp8 reticle on 308 semi with a few years rounds fired; got it and started shooting it when I first joined the Hide... no problems, I like it at least as well as the Leupolds and Swarovski glass I have had..
IIRC I saw something on the coloring of the ring on the scope to tell if the generation you are looking at is the most recent or not and that the first imported ones...that do have clear outside markings ( whether it has a blue ring or not or something like that).
I just know I do like mine and it was not as expensive as some scopes out there that have a larger and dedicated following and are higher dollar and whose resale are perhaps better..where I am having a hard time to decide between different scopes is when I am comparing the rare used super quality and extra high dollar scope for an amount I can get the IOR valdada at in Genereation III.. which for me has been a really rare occurence to find it and actually get to scoop it up timely for that kind of price.. Mine was around Eleven hundred cash dollars at a local dealer.. If I can afford what the experienced here would suggest is the best regardless of the cost, then I will get one of those; if that is not within budget and time constraints, then I am trying to find the best deal on the IOR or one of the best Leupolds new and comparing that to the used upper crust scopes... it is hard to find really great deals on the used scopes reputed to be better than IOR... that is just my experience.. I have not the experience of owning several of the best and all the other ones that can be compared... I have had a lot of Leupold Vari x IIIs and some swarovskis over the last twenty or thirty years...and the IOR is actually better than those by a noticeable amount, to my mind..
I will buy from Liberty or a Local.. someone that will do me right and either one will, from what I understand.
dk
Re: IOR Thoughts?
I like my 10x56. It's been to the range sitting on top of a 7
WSM and now a .280 AI. All told about 1000 rounds under it. Lit MP-8 reticle.
I was just shooting 100 gr'ers from my .280AI the other day and getting .2-.3 two shot groups. and -.5 MOA three shot groups. I tightened my ring screws to 25 in. lbs. and no tube distortion. but, I did align and lap in the rings before sticking the scope in.
Anyhow, I haven't had a problem with mine and it's even been dropped a couple times(landed scope first, too). And, it still holds zero. Overall, there's better high end scopes but for midrange scopes it's a pretty good value.
I like my 10x56. It's been to the range sitting on top of a 7
WSM and now a .280 AI. All told about 1000 rounds under it. Lit MP-8 reticle.
I was just shooting 100 gr'ers from my .280AI the other day and getting .2-.3 two shot groups. and -.5 MOA three shot groups. I tightened my ring screws to 25 in. lbs. and no tube distortion. but, I did align and lap in the rings before sticking the scope in.
Anyhow, I haven't had a problem with mine and it's even been dropped a couple times(landed scope first, too). And, it still holds zero. Overall, there's better high end scopes but for midrange scopes it's a pretty good value.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HasgunWilltravel</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 99HMC4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So how many and what models of IOR scopes has "swamper" owned? And what were the issues he had with them? Or is all his opinions and knowledge just "A guys told me" or "i heard from this one guy"? Any personal experience or just talking out your ass?</div></div>
Pay attention, he gives a very specific list and problems with said scopes. Dont be a piler onner.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I purchased a brand new 2-12x IOR-Valdada scope which exhibited great optical distortion from 2-5x and from 10-12x. The same scope would not focus either reticle and target crisply at any distance, and the glass MP-8 reticle had an oily film in the hashmark area.
The 4 - 14x I bought used (ebay) was not disclosed to have a crimped tube. When one of the two turret zeroing screws in the elvation turret snapped, I returned the scope to have the screw shank removed. IOR almost denied claim because the tube was crimped and I was not original owner. The screw was defective and the allen-head fastener, a tiny metric (of course) screw simply snapped. Cost me $25 to return the scope to get a defective screw replaced.
</div></div> </div></div>
My bad, I didnt remember reading that. Ill own up to it. So "swamper", if IOR sucks so bad why did you buy so many?
Edit: Also why did you spend $25 bucks to replace a screw that you could have bought in your own town? You knew it was a little metric screw so why not just go get one? Also ANY scope company in the world no moatter bad or good will cost you at least shipping to their shop for warranty work.......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HasgunWilltravel</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 99HMC4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So how many and what models of IOR scopes has "swamper" owned? And what were the issues he had with them? Or is all his opinions and knowledge just "A guys told me" or "i heard from this one guy"? Any personal experience or just talking out your ass?</div></div>
Pay attention, he gives a very specific list and problems with said scopes. Dont be a piler onner.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swamper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I purchased a brand new 2-12x IOR-Valdada scope which exhibited great optical distortion from 2-5x and from 10-12x. The same scope would not focus either reticle and target crisply at any distance, and the glass MP-8 reticle had an oily film in the hashmark area.
The 4 - 14x I bought used (ebay) was not disclosed to have a crimped tube. When one of the two turret zeroing screws in the elvation turret snapped, I returned the scope to have the screw shank removed. IOR almost denied claim because the tube was crimped and I was not original owner. The screw was defective and the allen-head fastener, a tiny metric (of course) screw simply snapped. Cost me $25 to return the scope to get a defective screw replaced.
</div></div> </div></div>
My bad, I didnt remember reading that. Ill own up to it. So "swamper", if IOR sucks so bad why did you buy so many?
Edit: Also why did you spend $25 bucks to replace a screw that you could have bought in your own town? You knew it was a little metric screw so why not just go get one? Also ANY scope company in the world no moatter bad or good will cost you at least shipping to their shop for warranty work.......
Re: IOR Thoughts?
Obviously the guy above here, 99 something, doesn't own an IOR scope or he would know how tiny the two metric screws are and would know IOR tells you not to remove the screw from the turret dial when trying to zero the dial. With a shank broken off in the thread of the dial, how you gonna tap it to remove the screw?
But wait! Let's play Optic Technician and fuck up a $1000 scopesight... Go ahead 99, when its your scope; you work on it...
You will love your IOR, until you have more than a simple problem.
If IOR were worth a damn, the company would setup a service facility in America.
I sold all my Valdada marked IOR scopes. The buyers were pleased, they got a deal.
Nobody tells you that IOR-Valdada is a 2 man operation.
More of a scam, if you ask me... But you pays your money and you takes your chances...
You guys can have all the Valdada crap you want, it don't bother me none in the least.
Obviously the guy above here, 99 something, doesn't own an IOR scope or he would know how tiny the two metric screws are and would know IOR tells you not to remove the screw from the turret dial when trying to zero the dial. With a shank broken off in the thread of the dial, how you gonna tap it to remove the screw?
But wait! Let's play Optic Technician and fuck up a $1000 scopesight... Go ahead 99, when its your scope; you work on it...
You will love your IOR, until you have more than a simple problem.
If IOR were worth a damn, the company would setup a service facility in America.
I sold all my Valdada marked IOR scopes. The buyers were pleased, they got a deal.
Nobody tells you that IOR-Valdada is a 2 man operation.
More of a scam, if you ask me... But you pays your money and you takes your chances...
You guys can have all the Valdada crap you want, it don't bother me none in the least.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
I'v got 2 IOR scopes & like them very much. One is that little 3x scope with the mount built on and pic. rails on the front. It has the CQB ret. in it and is an excellent AR type scope. (Esp. for the money, about $750) The other is the 2-12x with the 35mm tube. So far both are outstanding, the glass is second to none. My buddies with big dollar S&B scopes look through the 2-12x IOR and say, WOW! This thing is clear! (Then they cringe when I tell them what it cost compared to their $2600 scope.) I think IOR & NF scopes are the way to go unless money is no object. Then Hensoldt, S&B, USO & Premier would probably be the way to go.
As for the tubes being thinner in the USA scopes, I highly dought it. They would only save a couple buck's and have to re-tool to make them which is very costly. They glass is where you would save any real money, and as we all know their glass is NOT lacking. As for Lib. Optic's & Scott, I would buy from him without a second thought. I feel like he has my back on whatever I buy from him, and will continue to do so. If you like the features of the IOR scope's call Scott, if the one you picked out is not a good scope he will tell you. He will stand behind you all the way and give you the best deal. There is no way you will go wrong with IOR & Liberty Optics.
I'v got 2 IOR scopes & like them very much. One is that little 3x scope with the mount built on and pic. rails on the front. It has the CQB ret. in it and is an excellent AR type scope. (Esp. for the money, about $750) The other is the 2-12x with the 35mm tube. So far both are outstanding, the glass is second to none. My buddies with big dollar S&B scopes look through the 2-12x IOR and say, WOW! This thing is clear! (Then they cringe when I tell them what it cost compared to their $2600 scope.) I think IOR & NF scopes are the way to go unless money is no object. Then Hensoldt, S&B, USO & Premier would probably be the way to go.
As for the tubes being thinner in the USA scopes, I highly dought it. They would only save a couple buck's and have to re-tool to make them which is very costly. They glass is where you would save any real money, and as we all know their glass is NOT lacking. As for Lib. Optic's & Scott, I would buy from him without a second thought. I feel like he has my back on whatever I buy from him, and will continue to do so. If you like the features of the IOR scope's call Scott, if the one you picked out is not a good scope he will tell you. He will stand behind you all the way and give you the best deal. There is no way you will go wrong with IOR & Liberty Optics.
Re: IOR Thoughts?
I have 2 IOR scopes. My 2.5 is great, no problems shooting with my .308. Good glass and no problems. I had a 3X18 Genll that went down while shooting only 40 rounds out of my 338 Lapua. It only focused at one power setting. All others were blurred badly.
I returned it to Valdala IOR in Denver, where I live, and they replaced it with absolutely no hassle or questions asked. I paid the price difference and got a 4X14 Ultra with the 40mm tube. No problems so far with the 338 Lapua after about 60 rounds. The glass is awesome and I can't complaint about the service.
I have 2 IOR scopes. My 2.5 is great, no problems shooting with my .308. Good glass and no problems. I had a 3X18 Genll that went down while shooting only 40 rounds out of my 338 Lapua. It only focused at one power setting. All others were blurred badly.
I returned it to Valdala IOR in Denver, where I live, and they replaced it with absolutely no hassle or questions asked. I paid the price difference and got a 4X14 Ultra with the 40mm tube. No problems so far with the 338 Lapua after about 60 rounds. The glass is awesome and I can't complaint about the service.
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