Night Vision IR aiming laser options?

Mumbles

Mumbles

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 21, 2008
354
7
Pittsburgh Area
#1
Just curious what's available as far as aiming lasers for non-LE. Occasionally I see a used PEQ-2 or PAQ-4 come up for sale, presumably it's legal, but I never see any for sale new from a dealer. I really don't need anything that powerful anyway, I'd be happy with anything that gives me a clearly visable aiming point out to 200m, a flood would be nice, but I can live without it. I'd happily drop the coin on a PEQ-2, they've been within my price range when I've seen them come up for sale, (or a PEQ-15, no idea what they cost though) but I'd be satisfied with considerably less. Just curious what's available and where, since I'm pretty ignorant of low light systems that weren't issued to me.
 
#3
Re: IR aiming laser options?

That sounds an awful lot like a flat out NO. Is there no way around that? No civilian legal IR lasers at all? I guess I can always turn down the brightness on my EOtech, but I'm used to a certain way of doing things and would prefer not to have to get used to new, inferior ways.
 
#4
Re: IR aiming laser options?

They are not illegal to own...I believe the FDA who regulates them has stipulations on who the manufacturers sell them to, but beyond that is fair game. Insight at one point sold their lasers to individual officers and folks with creds, I believe they put the kabosh on that...but their are ways to get legit lasers, you just have to be willing to pony up the $

Lots of PEQ2s were for sale recently on here and occasionally you'll see a PEQ15...just be weary of stolen shit floating around.
 
#5
Re: IR aiming laser options?

Yeah, I've seen a couple PEQ-2s on here, one just about a week ago. Price was more than I want to pay, but not more than I'm willing to pay. I was hoping there'd be an easy solution, like "PAQ-4s for cheap here", but I guess I'll just have to keep an eye on the sale section.
 
#7
Re: IR aiming laser options?

There is a fairly large thread at ar15.com about building your own.

link

I have used a neutral density filter in front on a red laser with fair success. I did get more bloom than I would like.

I also did the mod described in the link above but to a different brand of housing. The results were good, but I feel it could be better. The best I could get is about a 5 moa dot. If there were laser modules available with better optics I think it could be better. I also think that 5mw is a little bright for practical laser sighting distances. A 1mw diode might be a better option.
 
#8
Re: IR aiming laser options?

I bought a used PEQ2A a while back that was missing one of the guards on the windage knob. I called Insight to see about getting one sent. They wouldn't even talk to me unless I was Mil/LE.

 
#9
Re: IR aiming laser options?

there was a company that was selling IR lasers on ebay and AR15.com a while back. they were called 'wolverine' lasers or something similar. i think there laser was called the 'cherokee aiming device.' they seemed like a legit company, i watched a bunch of their auctions on ebay and watched their site, then one day they disappeared. im assuming the FDA put an end to them. their lasers were in the 300-400$ range. havent searched around for them in the past couple years though

edit*
their site is back up
http://www.wolverinetechnologiesllc.com/CherokeeLaser.html

looks like they only sell to mil/le now.
they were pitching their IR laser to the public a while back and the feds must of caught wind of it.
 
#10
Re: IR aiming laser options?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brutus1776</div><div class="ubbcode-body">there was a company that was selling IR lasers on ebay and AR15.com a while back. they were called 'wolverine' lasers or something similar. i think there laser was called the 'cherokee aiming device.' they seemed like a legit company, i watched a bunch of their auctions on ebay and watched their site, then one day they disappeared. im assuming the FDA put an end to them. their lasers were in the 300-400$ range. havent searched around for them in the past couple years though

edit*
their site is back up
http://www.wolverinetechnologiesllc.com/CherokeeLaser.html

looks like they only sell to mil/le now.
they were pitching their IR laser to the public a while back and the feds must of caught wind of it.</div></div>

I think he is only selling 635mn-650mn lasers to the public.
 
#11
Re: IR aiming laser options?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doorkicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They are not illegal to own...I believe the FDA who regulates them has stipulations on who the manufacturers sell them to, but beyond that is fair game. Insight at one point sold their lasers to individual officers and folks with creds, I believe they put the kabosh on that...but their are ways to get legit lasers, you just have to be willing to pony up the $

Lots of PEQ2s were for sale recently on here and occasionally you'll see a PEQ15...just be weary of stolen shit floating around. </div></div>

+1 here unfortunately. Not illegal to own and NO individual LE or Mil sales. Has to be done on LE P.O. and IR statements have to signed and signed off on that the units will not be re-sold.

All those lasers you see on E-Bay and some other places can be suspect. In reality no agency can legally re-sell their IR laser. ALL U.S. manufactured IR laser units serial numbers are registered and kept on file from the manufacturer that are subject to audit from the gov at any time.

The other thing to keep in mind, if your 2nd hand IR laser ever goes down, you have just purchased a very expensive paperweight. If you attempt to send it back to the manufacturer for repair, they are bound by law and cannot send it back to an unqualified purchaser.

Awhile back, we saw a DOE agency let go of a bunch of DBAL units (there was hell to pay afterward) as ignorance was no excuse for the law. As it turned out a good portion of 100 or so units have started to fail here and there and we get at least one phone call a month asking us if they can be repaired? Of course all these folks are stuck with that fancy looking non-working "replica" on their shooting stick. Even if they might be LE or Mil, Laser Devices still cannot return the device to them because it was not originally purchased by their respective Dept.

I know it stinks most folks cannot get a IR laser, but vis. lasers can and DO work with NV. The key is (just like IR lasers) is to only turn them on when your about to drop the hammer and then turn them off immediately. Some vis. lasers may cause some donut bloom through your NVD at close ranges based on the vis laser you may be using. Hope this helps.

Vic
 
#13
Re: IR aiming laser options?

Thanks for the advice, I'll have to do some experimenting. How would an IR filter from a strobe or surefire work? I could probably find a red laser that fits together well with a Surefire IR flip cap. Or would I be better off with the camera film? Playing with my PEQ-15, the red Laser is useable, so I guess I could always fall back on that.
 
#14
Re: IR aiming laser options?

Camera film works well,I like useing lasers that allow butler creek caps with holes dilled in the center and the film inside,This way you flip it open for full laser power.No impact shift is seen with this set up..

I will be puting some units togther with proper filter,the ones I built for some Guys have been working for 2 years and there feedback is grand..
 
#15
Re: IR aiming laser options?

The PEQ2 is awesome. I hope mine doesn't break.

As for other options, a guy on ar15.com was talking about buying IR illuminators/lasers made in Canada and not having nay problems.

-dan
 
#16
Re: IR aiming laser options?

The laser in question is actually made in Belrus and is not Canadian. We played a great deal with these systems way early on (2004), and they were hit or miss holding zero. A user over on the ARFCOM was making some modifications at one time as he bought up a bunch of them. Not sure where that went. Hope this helps.

Vic
 
#18
Re: IR aiming laser options?

One of the film mod Caps I will get a front shot when I dig it up..Sure fire laser..

imagewhs.jpg

By null at 2010-05-05


 
#19
Re: IR aiming laser options?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Victor-TNVC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The laser in question is actually made in Belrus and is not Canadian. We played a great deal with these systems way early on (2004), and they were hit or miss holding zero. A user over on the ARFCOM was making some modifications at one time as he bought up a bunch of them. Not sure where that went. Hope this helps.

Vic </div></div>

Thanks for clarifying that, I just skimmed over it.

You don't miss anything when it comes to NV.

-dan
Edit: Heres the thread I was tallking about
 
#20
Re: IR aiming laser options?

The site linked in the abof ARFCOM thread also sells PEQ-2s, For about $200 cheaper than the Belarussian LAM2 thing. Is there any reason why they would import the LAM2 but not the PEQ2?
 
#21
Re: IR aiming laser options?


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchinOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">There is a fairly large thread at ar15.com about building your own.

link

I have used a neutral density filter in front on a red laser with fair success. I did get more bloom than I would like.

I also did the mod described in the link above but to a different brand of housing. The results were good, but I feel it could be better. The best I could get is about a 5 moa dot. If there were laser modules available with better optics I think it could be better. I also think that 5mw is a little bright for practical laser sighting distances. A 1mw diode might be a better option.</span> </div></div>
-
Hey, This is a good low budget option.
People who read the on the diode change-out should not totally dismiss it as trash . I have built 3 of them and they are small and great for the Suppressed .22 rimfire pistols and rifle for just a, ( 'Quick' Dot paint & Pop ) on the critters .
It is a little backyard ghetto but it is pretty slick and easy & perfect for Low budget NV aiming laser dot . I put it on one of my smith .22 pistol & a 10/22 that are suppressed. Just easy little option that is cheep reliable and adds to the fun factor when you are out with the helmet NV .

Other than the ghetto Beamshot body not having real windage/Elev. Turets . With the IR diode change-out, The laser footprint on the target is not as refined & clean/tiny as the 12-2000-$ but it <span style="font-size: 11pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">'More than'</span></span> totally acceptable & usable . & it will not cost you more than 200-$ when all is said and done .
The Diodes are focus adjustable & You can get it pretty clean focused dot if you really take the time to focus the diode & play with it. The Aiming screws & spring system on the Beamshot body will keep/hold POA zero also if you put a tiny bit of lock-tight on the keeper screws .

The power emitted is GTG . Not as powerful as the high power settings on the big-$$$ units But ( in close quarters) it is still Not Retina friendly , so keep that in mind when are remote powering it-up when focusing it or aiming it @ ? .
Also: Totally legal also to 'home build' Lasers for you and your friends . But it is a big Negative for commercial sales .

<span style="font-weight: bold">OK: Only thing is a good mounting system that is low and goes strait to the Pic. rail but I did on up by using a weaver low 1" scope mount with a reducer split-ring I turned on the lathe & it is a keeper. did not take me to long @ all to make it more universal & user friendly for mounting system .</span>
( <span style="font-weight: bold">If I get some extra time next day or two I will do a pic. of the Mount I made.</span>)
.
 
#22
Re: IR aiming laser options?

If you can not afford to put High-$$$ IR on everything . 2 budget minded mounting ideas for the Beamshot diode conversions or other units .

It looks beat-up and it is. but this one is still going strong & working great. Total ride height above the Pic rail is ( 1-3/8 inch )
So it is pretty small & low for a NV IR pointer & easy to cut/make a split-ring insert to sleeve the old strap-style Weaver (low)- Scope Rings with the Beamshot body & pressure-pad switch .
It would be sweet to run a high dollar IR supplement unit on All the things that you use @ night but for the suppressed Rimfires or spotting scope these diode conversions work excellent . Good for spotting & pointing out a target or just a quick point, mark and Pop .

Also if you take the 10/22 and mount an AR FFtube Pic Rail by drilling it and counter sink for the large head tightening nuts to secure it on the Weaver Strap Scope Rings for a side-mount IR unit or the Beamshot conversion. On the 10/22 with this type Rail mount even the PEQ2a will mount flush and tight to the side of the 10/22 .
-
nvbeamshot.jpg

.
1022picrail.jpg

.
004-1.jpg

.
 
#24
Re: IR aiming laser options?

Not a bad reflex sight. I have fondled a couple of those and powered-up and also checked them out under the pvs-14 . The Laser was good power pointer also .
They are pretty EO similar except the glass is a little smaller in shape than EO and the model I was using, it would not NV-co-witness with the reflex Ret. , as the Ret. was not IR compatible . it would only do the Laser.
Not a big deal on the Retical not having a NV power-down button for PVS-14 if the pvs is AutoG unit. But if it's not you will get a shitload of bloom off the Ret.
I think those Reflex sites are/Were sub-contracted sold to US Mil. threw Israeli company.
.
 
#25
Re: IR aiming laser options?

Softcock,
Can you adjust that laser for zeroing?

I have a surefie L75 it is a really nice option, basically the same thing as the green L73 except it's IR. The only problem with it is that there is no way of indicating whether it is on or not without using night vision. I wish like on the pe1-2s it had a small light to let you know it's on.
 
#26
Re: IR aiming laser options?

it's a ( 904nm / 5mW ) IR laser Diode
Ya you can adj. the beamshot with the diode change-out . it is just the very basic of POA setting with the 3- locking set-screw and 2-tension springs that align it to where you want it and then It is set .
I believe the model beamshot I used that and contained the exact same size width/length/diam. of Diode I chose to work with was the (1000 & 1000 super model) . with the tail-cap pressure switch .
also If you are pretty handy with a little lathe and drill press and stuff. There is really no reason anyone can not do-up a little housing with simple knobs for windage & elevation . Then just bolt the body to a Pic. rail quick release . That is totally doable for a home do-it-youselfer IR/nv pointer .
so Yes Adjustable but ( No turning knob Turrets for Wind./Elev. ) as the Beamshot body lasers, are low-end-$ but you are not paying 1200-2000-$$$ like peq's to ATILLA cost.
Hard to believe industry units cost as much as they do. Probably no reason other than NSN# & <span style="text-decoration: underline">Charging-$$$ 'what the market will bear'</span> . don't get me wrong, I have played plenty with them & there sweet are pretty mass-produced & really refined, but the 'little shits' are only plastic housings and a few circuit boards . FuckingHell, I can buy a 60-inch Plasma TV for less money than a some of them cost .
.
split-ring.jpg

.
 
#28
Re: IR aiming laser options?

Well the main part of it as you said due to the restricted market, there are few technical reasons I can think of they should cost more than an equivalent visible laser, though most of those that are nice run 500-1k. But decent lenses and good diodes do cost some $$$ so you get that nice well collimated beam.
 
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