Is 12x Enough?

[talllogic]

I am torn between two riflescopes and would appreciate the input.

1. Leica Magnus 2.4-16×56 i
Pros are greater magnification, larger aperture for more light sensitivity, adjustable parallax.

2. Leica Magnus 1.8-12x50 i
Pros are less expensive, slimmer profile (smaller aperture and no parallax knob), KISS (no parallax adjustment is also one less thing to break)

My use case is a on top of a Sako 85 Finnlight II in 30-06, aimed (pun intended) towards hunting elk in Wyoming.

Secondary question: is a BDC turret worth it for hunting purposes? I have never used one.

 

[Glassaholic]

12x is enough for distance but if you plan to do PID with the scope may be at limit, if you're using a spotting scope for PID then no worries. Do you plan to do a lot of low light hunting? 56mm will give slight edge but only slight, both Magnus' are known to be very high light transmission.

Edit: for Wyoming hunting, not sure how much you'll need below 2.4x so would you rather have the extra top end or do you think you'll be in the thick stuff enough you'll benefit more from 1.8x?

BDC turret is a nice option if you think you'll be dialing your solution, capped turrets are a pain to uncap and click feel isn't usually as good as exposed turrets.

Biggest question, Leica no longer imports the Magnus to USA, where do you plan on obtaining one?

 

[talllogic]

Thank you for your input.

In answer to your question, there are two options:
1. Leica’s entire range of rifle scopes are available in the United States through special order at an official Leica store. Not authorized retailers, though. They will not ship to your address, you need to pick it up at the store. I have called and confirmed.
2. There are services that will relay shipments through forwarding addresses. From the EU it costs approximately $100 to $150 to have a package forwarded.

Apologies, I missed your other question:
No, I don't think the difference between a low end of 1.8x and 2.4x will matter for my potential uses.

 

[diverdon]

Of the dozen or so top brands Leica would be my last choice. Their supply chain is deeply rooted in the far east.

 

[talllogic]

Of the dozen or so top brands Leica would be my last choice. Their supply chain is deeply rooted in the far east.

That is a super interesting assertion. Please point me towards the source of that information. I would love to learn more. I completely agree that even when the label says "Made In ..." one still needs to be careful.

I am certain I want a scope with an integrated rail system. With that limitation in mind, do you have favorite manufacturer?

 

[Glassaholic]

Of the dozen or so top brands Leica would be my last choice. Their supply chain is deeply rooted in the far east.

Pretty sure Magnus is made in Germany, some of their products are made in Portugal, but I am unaware of anything optical made in far east??? @koshkin is likely to know for sure.

 

[chevy_man]

That is a super interesting assertion. Please point me towards the source of that information. I would love to learn more. I completely agree that even when the label says "Made In ..." one still needs to be careful.

I am certain I want a scope with an integrated rail system. With that limitation in mind, do you have favorite manufacturer?

Last thing I would do is buy a mounting solution that only applies to 1 scope.

A pic or weaver mount and rings or direct mounted rings have worked for 50 years. They're easily available and changeable in case of failure.

Chasing an obscure (at least in the US) mounting system would be my very last reason to chase a specific scope.

3-12 and 3-15s have treated me well. I rarely use the low power but the times I've needed it, I wished it was 1x. For some reason I've never shot a deer under 300 yards carrying a pistol, but shot 2 at less than 30 yards when I was too lazy to carry my 8" 357.

The terrain will decide. Are you hunting the alpine, meadows, places that give you a view? Or will you be in heavy timber with 50 yards a long shot?
I know 99% of Wyoming is just barren high desert with nothing but sage brush and 80mph winds, but there's a tiny corner with a few trees.

 

[Kalthoff]

Pretty sure Magnus is made in Germany, some of their products are made in Portugal, but I am unaware of anything optical made in far east??? @koshkin is likely to know for sure.

Last month I bought a Leica Magnus riflescope from a webshop in Germany.

It is labeled "made in Portugal".

The entire supply chain is likely to involve a number of countries and to change over time. it is usually not something a manufacturer want to reveal to the general public, so hard to know for sure.

 

[noremorse92]

12x is plenty for any hunting scenario that is ethical for your average hunter. I'd have a look at a Schmidt and bender 3-12 klassik as well. They can be had with a mil dot ret and mil elevation turret.

Who says you will only use this for only 1 use case, low end matters. An elk is a big target at typical hunting distances.

The European style of scope mounting with the rail on the scope tube is silly. More hardware that can come loose. Get the optilok ringmounts for that sako and keep it simple. Direct mount to the rifles receiver is best.

 

[talllogic]

First things first:
To those who weighed in on the original question, thank you! I appreciate the assistance.

Some clarifications and additional details:

"Last thing I would do is buy a mounting solution that only applies to 1 scope."
I currently own zero scopes and am borrowing one from a generous friend. I would like to return his scope and purchase my own. Hence the original inquiry. For what it's worth, I also only own one hunting rifle, as well. I have no plans nor desire to change that.

"Last month I bought a Leica Magnus riflescope from a webshop in Germany. It is labeled 'made in Portugal'".
Thanks for the information / warning. I was under the impression that the Magnus i line was still manufactured in Germany. Shows you what I know!

"Chasing an obscure (at least in the US) mounting system would be my very last reason to chase a specific scope."
I didn't / wasn't. My original desire was for a Swarovski z6i or z8i. I think their optics are second to none (my opinion - not touting this as fact). But I became concerned about Swarovski's durability. After looking around for Swarovski-esque optics I settled on Leica. It doesn't hurt matters that my grandfather used to own a Leica. I'm a sucker for tradition.

"The European style of scope mounting with the rail on the scope tube is silly."
Lets agree to disagree. I think the same thing about people hunting white tail with a 338 Lapua (a real life example, not hyperbole) or use a round that isn't easy to source in every Walmart in the country, but ya' know what: God bless 'em. If they're wed to their 360 Buckhammer (or whatever), then so be it.

"Who says you will only use this for only 1 use case, low end matters. An elk is a big target at typical hunting distances."
This one is my fault for not being more communicative. My interest in game ranges from white tail deer to (maybe someday, hopefully) moose. I think of elk as my primary interest, not my only interest, and I was trying to paint a picture for strangers on the internet by being simplistic. I will check out S&B again - always open to the idea that I missed something.

Again,
Thank you all so much for all your ideas!

 

[Kalthoff]

My use case is a on top of a Sako 85 Finnlight II in 30-06

......

I am certain I want a scope with an integrated rail system. With that limitation in mind, do you have favorite manufacturer?

"Zeiss rail" mounts for the Sako 85 is available from 3. parties. The Zeiss rail system easily tops traditional rings in a beauty contest:

MAKlassic 2 piece Pivot Mount, Rotation lock, Sako 75, 85, Zeiss ZM / VM rail

MAKlassic 2 piece Pivot Mount, Rotation lock, Sako 75, 85, Zeiss ZM / VM rail

www.optics-trade.eu

However the Sako owners I know, speak favorably of the Sako Optilock system:

Rifle Components and Parts Online

Shop Beretta rifle components and parts online. Explore our selection of Beretta accessories for upgrades and maintenance!

www.beretta.com

 

[Glassaholic]

Last month I bought a Leica Magnus riflescope from a webshop in Germany.

It is labeled "made in Portugal".

The entire supply chain is likely to involve a number of countries and to change over time. it is usually not something a manufacturer want to reveal to the general public, so hard to know for sure.

Good to know, I knew the PRS scope was made in Portugal as is their LRF line but surprised they went to Portugal for their top end scope.

 

[20 tac guy]

i own two PRS scopes both have the PRB reticle, both made in Germany. I bought my dad an Amplus it was made in Portugal

 

[FredHammer]

Secondary question: is a BDC turret worth it for hunting purposes? I have never used one.

Generically: 30-06, 180gr pill, 2850fps, BC .450, ele 8500ft @50F. HOB 1.9"
POI 1.5" high at 100yds, zero of 200yds, can have you holding the horizontal crosshair on the back of an elk and drop it in the vitals @ 300-400yds holding the horizontal crosshair on the elk's top of back. Can't remember all that, or don't want to then the dial in "distance" turret is handiest. Like the Leupold CDS dial. Faster than dial in MRAD or MOA, and if one can't remember the hold overs with a 200yd zero, the dialing in MRADS or MOAs will require a dope card that's in a handy location for quick reference.

This is all assuming a 400yd max range. If you are some long range 1000yd elk killer...dope card, kestrel, Hornady 4DOF app. etc.

 

[talllogic]

Generically: 30-06, 180gr pill, 2850fps, BC .450, ele 8500ft @50F. HOB 1.9"
POI 1.5" high at 100yds, zero of 200yds, can have you holding the horizontal crosshair on the back of an elk and drop it in the vitals @ 300-400yds holding the horizontal crosshair on the elk's top of back. Can't remember all that, or don't want to then the dial in "distance" turret is handiest. Like the Leupold CDS dial. Faster than dial in MRAD or MOA, and if one can't remember the hold overs with a 200yd zero, the dialing in MRADS or MOAs will require a dope card that's in a handy location for quick reference.

This is all assuming a 400yd max range. If you are some long range 1000yd elk killer...dope card, kestrel, Hornady 4DOF app. etc.

Definitely not hunting anything at 1000 yds. It would be unethical of me to attempt much beyond 400 yds. 500 yds. is about as far as I care to seriously practice.

 

[FredHammer]

Definitely not hunting anything at 1000 yds. It would be unethical of me to attempt much beyond 400 yds. 500 yds. is about as far as I care to seriously practice.

Than a simple duplex reticle. Hold center to 250, high shoulder at 300-350, top of back at 400.

 

[Glassaholic]

i own two PRS scopes both have the PRB reticle, both made in Germany. I bought my dad an Amplus it was made in Portugal

So PRS scopes made in Germany and Magnus made in Portugal? What is going on at Leica? Reminds me of some Nikon lenses, some made in China, some made in Taiwan, some made in Japan. At the end of the day the manufacturer can make their products wherever they want as long as QC holds up on the manufacturing floor, but some people prefer their products to be made in certain locations, I get that.