Is .224 Valkyrie going to die out?

[ToddM]

Curious what everyone thinks the fate of the .224 Valkyrie will be between it's problematic start with the 90 grain ammo problems and now the 6 ARC being the new AR flavor of the year.

It looks like JP is getting out of the .224 Valkyrie game. They are no longer list .224 supermatch barrels as an option on their website, or as an option for any of their builds, and some retailers are blowing barrels out pretty cheap.

 

[308pirate]

224 dying out?

LOLOLOL

 

[hlee]

As a caliber? No. But I suspect the OP is referencing the 224 Valkyrie CARTRIDGE. Maybe. Lots of cartridges are “flashes in the pan.“ But, there is valk ammo on the shelves right now, but no grendel, arc, black out, or 5.56 nato to be had. Variety is the spice of life, and a vital component to the recipe that maintains your shooting when pickings are slim...

 

[Halfnutz]

I'm sitting on dies, bullets, brass, ammo and magazines; considering .224 valkyrie for my next upper build.
Valkyrie ammo is more available right now and about the same price as 5.56 from what I've seen.

 

[RTH1800]

I'm certain he is refering to .224 V.

 

[308pirate]

I'm certain he is refering to .224 V.

I see carry on then

 

[IrishWind]

IMHO, the .224Valk has the same issues as it's parent, the 6.8SPC. It looks really good. But it is not an easy barrel/bolt swap to get it on an AR. A lot of part swaps and tuning is needed to get it right. But get the balance right, it will be sweet. As for longevity, I would also invest in dies for reloading. My gut tells me this will be a hard to find cartridge in a few years.

 

[ToddM]

My bad for not being more clear, I did mean the Valkyrie, edited for clarification. I suppose there's some benefit to being a less popular cartridge when ammo is hard to find. Back in Obama days when 9mm and .45 ammo was nowhere to be found you could still find .40

 

[346ci]

IMHO, the .224Valk has the same issues as it's parent, the 6.8SPC. It looks really good. But it is not an easy barrel/bolt swap to get it on an AR. A lot of part swaps and tuning is needed to get it right. But get the balance right, it will be sweet. As for longevity, I would also invest in dies for reloading. My gut tells me this will be a hard to find cartridge in a few years.

There is nothing hard about installing a 6.8 barrel/bolt and getting it to run 100% as a 5.56 would.

Many deer and hogs have been taken with the 6.8, one of the best if not the best rounds in the AR15 platform for hunting.

 

[G-Dog]

I hope not, as A year ago I picked up a JP and a Rainier match barrel in 224 V, but haven’t been able to put them all together thanks to this year’s craziness. Thought it looked fun, but maybe I have a white elephant now.

That reminds me, maybe I should pick up some brass just to have on hand, enough to shoot out two barrels and move on to the next project.

 

[Constructor]

IMHO, the .224Valk has the same issues as it's parent, the 6.8SPC. It looks really good. But it is not an easy barrel/bolt swap to get it on an AR. A lot of part swaps and tuning is needed to get it right. But get the balance right, it will be sweet. As for longevity, I would also invest in dies for reloading. My gut tells me this will be a hard to find cartridge in a few years.

It takes a barrel, bolt and mag, same as a 6mmARC except the 6.8/Valk bolts are stronger and mags feed better.

If you want a successful Valkyrie it is easier to forget the 90 and 95smk. Shoot the 80gr ELD using H4895 at 3000fps, it will outperform the heavier bullets in drop and drift. The heavier bullets even though they have higher BCs will never catch up to the 80 eld at 3000 unless you really plan on shooting past 1000yds..

 

[krw]

Someone on here made the comment “ Stoner got it right with the 223”. I agree.

 

[Constructor]

Someone on here made the comment “ Stoner got it right with the 223”. I agree.

Stoner originally designed the AR15 for the 222.

 

[steve123]

223, I think one of the original problems that occurred late in the trials was that the military changed their mind on the original load parameters because they wanted it to go faster which the cartridge wasn't up to at it's designed length due to high pressures, which then caused reliability problems when fielded later on???

Just thinking out loud here but it would have made a lot more sense if the small frame AR's would have been made with a slightly longer mag well and mags so bullets could be seated out farther to make room for more powder capacity. That would make all these cartridges go faster with the same pressures because the bullet can be seated out further which would be very appealing. Oh well........

If 224V had strong and consistent brass like Lapua does, then put in a longer mag/longer OACL, it'd get those desired velocities we wanted when we first heard about the cartridge.
Has anybody done a 224V AI yet? That could be an option for the reloader.

First cartridge that comes to mind for me is 223AI with 75gr ELDM, a bullet that doesn't work in the current mag length. One of the sleepers in the cartridge world. I was getting 3000 fps which was a light-ish load in a 28" barrel with H4895. I'm sure I could have been in the 3100's with a suitable ball powder using a warm load.

Probably get another 50 fps out of my 6mmFatRat which is currently going 2870 fps with 95smk ??

And the list goes on......

 

[NCHillbilly]

I hope not,at least for a while. Finally got loads worked up and mine is shooting pretty well. Have an 80gr and 88gr load shooting sub-moa. For someone that does not shoot for a living, I'll take it. 80gr load at 2900 mv and 88gr at 2800mv. Yay.

 

[Triple D]

No reason for it to go away. Great ballistics and no recoil. I was hoping Hornady would release an 80 Eld factory load, but I doubt that’ll happen. The 80’s are the sweet spot for the cartridge and will hang with the 6ARC.

The factory FGMM Berger 80.5’s at 2920fps is a good load as well if you don’t reload.

 

[Islander]

I think it will be around for a while. I do believe the 6 ARC will give it a run for it’s money, but both have the same OAL issues if you want to mag feed your rifle. I’m playing with the Sierra 77 TMK bullet right now and out of 5 test loads 3 were sub MOA. If I single load the 95 MK I can get around 1/2 MOA but can’t use the mag as they are way to long.

 

[ormandj]

I think it will be around for a while. I do believe the 6 ARC will give it a run for it’s money, but both have the same OAL issues if you want to mag feed your rifle. I’m playing with the Sierra 77 TMK bullet right now and out of 5 test loads 3 were sub MOA. If I single load the 95 MK I can get around 1/2 MOA but can’t use the mag as they are way to long.

I can run 108 ELD-Ms easily in magazine length in my 6mm ARC. There’s no mag length issue with this cartridge, you run out of powder volume long before that becomes an issue, it’s a short/fat cartridge. There’s not enough powder to drive anything over 110gr at reasonable velocities, but COAL isn’t an issue with the case design as it is.

 

[Islander]

I can run 108 ELD-Ms easily in magazine length in my 6mm ARC. There’s no mag length issue with this cartridge, you run out of powder volume long before that becomes an issue, it’s a short/fat cartridge. There’s not enough powder to drive anything over 110gr at reasonable velocities, but COAL isn’t an issue with the case design as it is.

Can you seat the 108’s close to the lands? With the Valkyrie the 95’s are about .050 off in order to fit the mag.

 

[craigos]

love my valkyrie ... jp and a minifix in it ... awesome to shoot

 

[Jackomason]

I hope not but my gut is telling me that its dying. but it really doesnt matter as long as you can burn through a barrel with the components you have or at least brass.

mine is a absolute hammer but its in a bolt gun.

 

[rustyinbend]

I've struggled with 224-Valkyrie accuracy in three different build attempts. My latest is now a "Safe Queen" ... waiting for the day I list it for sale. I just don't need the aggravation anymore when I have multiple other calibers (6.5-G, 6.5-CM) that are all tack-drivers out beyond 1,000 yards. Tried high-priced and low-priced barrels, 6.5/7.0/7.5 twists, etc. ... and can't get a good, consistent group to save my ass. I've basically given up on my "224-Valkyrie Experiment". Obviously, this is just me, and YMMV.

 

[deersniper]

I've struggled with 224-Valkyrie accuracy in three different build attempts.

Yup.

Accuracy problems killed the round.

Who wants to shoot something that isn’t accurate?

No excuse for this.

Part of the reason Hornady is killing it with all their introductions

 

[physhphude]

I've struggled with 224-Valkyrie accuracy in three different build attempts. My latest is now a "Safe Queen" ... waiting for the day I list it for sale. I just don't need the aggravation anymore when I have multiple other calibers (6.5-G, 6.5-CM) that are all tack-drivers out beyond 1,000 yards. Tried high-priced and low-priced barrels, 6.5/7.0/7.5 twists, etc. ... and can't get a good, consistent group to save my ass. I've basically given up on my "224-Valkyrie Experiment". Obviously, this is just me, and YMMV.

Same experience here, I was unable to get my 224 to group. JP put in a lot of effort and at the end of the day they offered to switch the caliber of my rifle.

 

[ToddM]

Yeah that's sort of what I'm afraid of, I built a .224V JP upper for giggles as it seemed like something interesting in a small frame AR to play with, with Covid I haven't even gotten it out, been shooting other stuff. With so many still having accuracy issues it's hard to believe the only problem with the .224V was the original 90gr Federal ammo, as lots of other ammo options are out now and people still appear to be having issues with accuracy in AR's, bolt guns seem to be doing much better.

Might be one reason why it looks like JP has abandoned the .224V for barrels/builds.

At the end of the day all I'm really invested into it is a barrel, worst case I just rebarrel to something new.

 

[Blutroop]

What magazines are y’all running? Is there a decent follower for 6.8-224v that will work in gi ar mags?

 

[Ledzep]

Can you seat the 108’s close to the lands? With the Valkyrie the 95’s are about .050 off in order to fit the mag.

Next time I load I'll check it out. 110 A-tips hit rifling at around 2.38", and 105 bthps around 2.22", I'd imagine the 108 Ogive is somewhere in between but offhand I don't know where. For my AR I've just been seating 2.245 and rolling with it. So far so good. AA2520, LeverEvolution, and factory 108's are all floating at or below MOA for 10-shot groups in my AR.

Nonetheless, the ARC presents a solution for what I believe is/was the accuracy downfall with the .224 Valkyrie. Don't stuff the entire bearing surface below the mouth and try to run a short free bore. Too much bullet inside the case. Magically lighter bullets with less bearing surface have much fewer accuracy complaints...

 

[Islander]

I did some web searches for loading the longer bullets and found a guy talking about getting better accuracy with huge bullet jumps as apposed to leaving them long and single feeding in the AR platform. I might load some to mag length and give it a try just for the hell of it. I’ve only started playing with this cartridge and it may end up like the 41 mag, but it’s fun to play with for the time being. It doesn’t use a huge amount of powder and the bullets are relatively cheap.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

We have seen issues from a few very reputable builders resulting in the .224v having to go back due to reliability and accuracy issues.

Something we almost never saw with their .223 and other guns.

I think the fad will die like many other flash in the pan calibers.

 

[NCHillbilly]

I've struggled with 224-Valkyrie accuracy in three different build attempts. My latest is now a "Safe Queen" ... waiting for the day I list it for sale. I just don't need the aggravation anymore when I have multiple other calibers (6.5-G, 6.5-CM) that are all tack-drivers out beyond 1,000 yards. Tried high-priced and low-priced barrels, 6.5/7.0/7.5 twists, etc. ... and can't get a good, consistent group to save my ass. I've basically given up on my "224-Valkyrie Experiment". Obviously, this is just me, and YMMV.

Mine wasn't accurate at all until I worked with my rounds and put quite a few down the pipe. I'm shooting a cheap barrel, and I have to tell ya, using the Tubb's final finish bore-lapping system on MY barrel really brought it to life. Accuracy and velocity improved tremendously. I'm now shooting 80gr and 88gr eldm's sub-moa from a rifle that cost less to build than some folks barrels cost. I like mine more every time I shoot it now, and that's saying something considering three months ago I thought I'd have to re-barrel it. BTW, I have no financial stake in the Tubb's system, but have used it a couple of time with great success. If you're shooting a high end custom barrel, it probably won't give you the improvement that I saw.

If you should decide to sell yours, PM me, I may be a player.

 

[NCHillbilly]

What magazines are y’all running? Is there a decent follower for 6.8-224v that will work in gi ar mags?

I'm using ASC brand mags that will allow 2.285" coal. I've not seated any longer than that, but have read that the mags can be modified to allow even longer coal.

 

[Ledzep]

Yeah the Grendel sized case 'optimizes' from a trajectory standpoint with existing .22 cal heavy bullets. The only downer is going to be splash on target. It was very noticeable coming from 140-147gr 6.5mm's to the 105-110gr 6's. Not talking as big of a jump down from 105 to 90gr, though.

Tangent in the other direction... I had a hair-brain idea the other day. I doubt I'll ever follow through (or if anyone should, honestly...lol) . But if you look at what's important for the PRS/NRL games... Low wind deflection, Low recoil, splash, accuracy (IMO trajectory takes a back seat with known distances and today's solvers). A long-barreled 6.5 Grendel (bolt gun) could probably make it happen with 153's at around 2400fps. Talking .308 trajectory if not a little better, considerably less wind drift (basically equal to a BR/Dasher sized 6mm), very comparable recoil to a BR/ARC/Dasher/etc. with the down-range splash benefit of 153's. And it just so happens that a 153 sits at max mag length in MDT BR mags with the BT/bearing surface junction just below the neck/shoulder. A guy would have to throat it out a bit, but I'm already set up for the ARC in a bolt gun. Probably dumb.

 

[Lightning8]

I just got home from range with an AR upper in 224 V. 1-6.5 twist. 80 grain Nosler CCs over H4895 working well. I have a 6.5 Grendel upper also. If I was starting over, I think I would try a 6mm ARC and skip the 224V and the 6.5G

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I just feel like the 224V was invented to get rid of 6.8 SPC brass manufacturing capacity. It’s good, but I think the 6 arc shows what ballistically you can do with an AR magazine sized cartridge and still fit the parameters of magazine feasibility. Everyone talks about thousand yards, thousand yards, thousand yards, but how many people actually shoot competitions to that range?
224V seems to have an advantage when it comes to getting cheap blaster ammo. But if the idea of these 224V or 6arc guns is to have a good accurate rifle, are you really going to use it in blaster mode, or just have a 556 upper or rifle. But the 224V does seem to have the advantage of cheaper ammo for practice. At least for now.
On the idea of having the same cartridge for an AR platform and for a bolt gun, it seems like the six arc has advantages in being able to use one load. The 224V and bolt gun just seems to be begging to be loaded long which then leads to having two versions, one for ArRs, and one for both guns. And that’s not really saving anything.

The 6arc round is not gonna be the end of the what is the new hotness quest.

 

[Lightning8]

I shoot to 1000 - often to 1200 - regularly. The issue is how hard it is to see a 22 caliber projectile impact past about 800. Last long range trip I was hitting at 1100 with 75 ELDMs but only way to see impacts on plate was watch for fragmentation stirring up dust in front of steel plate. My 6.5 Grendel rocks plates with the 123s but kind of lobbing them at longer ranges.

 

[lash]

Everyone talks about thousand yards, thousand yards, thousand yards, but how many people actually shoot competitions to that range?

Well, all of those people that compete in practical and precision long range rifle matches these days. It’s really not that big a deal anymore. Besides, what the .224 V does really well is shoot really really well at 600-700 and in and does this with such minimal recoil as to make it great fun for first timers, small kids and women that cannot deal with recoil. If I can take a kid of 10 out who has done no more than shoot a .22 before and have them hitting 600 yard steel right away with almost no recoil, then it’s a winner in my book.

224V seems to have an advantage when it comes to getting cheap blaster ammo. But if the idea of these 224V or 6arc guns is to have a good accurate rifle, are you really going to use it in blaster mode, or just have a 556 upper or rifle. But the 224V does seem to have the advantage of cheaper ammo for practice. At least for now.

That cheaper ammo shoots really well in some barrels. If you call it blaster mode to hit a 6” steel at 600 yards every day with inexpensive ammo, then I guess that you are right.

I bought mine primarily due to the low cost ammo so that I wouldn’t have to worry about loading one more caliber and could just have some mid-long range fun. Mine has filled the bill.

 

[Ledzep]

On the idea of having the same cartridge for an AR platform and for a bolt gun, it seems like the six arc has advantages in being able to use one load. The 224V and bolt gun just seems to be begging to be loaded long which then leads to having two versions, one for ArRs, and one for both guns. And that’s not really saving anything.

While you certainly could, I don't. I take advantage of the longer magazine limit and the increased available pressure in a bolt gun. Some bullets limit out at the lands between 2.22-2.25" but in both of my bolt guns I'm loading to 2.30-.235". I suspect in that regard it's going to be the pretty much the same as the Valkyrie.

 

[BruntBronze]

i did my own math on the 224 valkerie. there was too much variation in needed teist rate for a given bullet. The 90gr bergers needed 1:6 others could get away with 1:8.

i stuck with my 65 grendel in 100gr, 123gr and 130gr did everything i could want.

 

[Triple D]

i did my own math on the 224 valkerie. there was too much variation in needed teist rate for a given bullet. The 90gr bergers needed 1:6 others could get away with 1:8.

i stuck with my 65 grendel in 100gr, 123gr and 130gr did everything i could want.

Nothing wrong with a grendel, but I’m not sure I follow the logic on the 224Valkyrie. If you think you’re going to shoot the heavies, just get a 1:6.5t and be done. That twist handles 69-95gr from what I’ve tested. It shoots the 95smk’s great, but the heavies aren’t where it’s at for the Valkyrie and long range if you reload.

A 1:7t works for up to the 90smk’s, even at low elevation if you have enough velocity. The 1:7.5t works with the 85.5 berger but is marginal with 90’s unless you’re up in elevation.

Of my 3 valk barrels, the 1:7.5t is the one I enjoy shooting the most. It does great with the 80-85.5’s.

 

[natdscott]

Do you know why we all have heard of, or own, or have shot, or... the .243 Winchester?

Ever heard of the 6mm Remington? Yes? Do you know anybody that owns one?


Big Green screwed the pooch on twist rate, the damn things wouldn’t shoot the ACTUAL ammo sold in green boxes for the 6mm rifles...

...and by the time they fixed it (the next year), Winchester had already introduced the .243.

Excepting a few circles, the 6mm Remington is, and was, Dead on Arrival, even though it’s a higher performance case.




Valkyrie will die. It’s not THAT awesome anyway, and frankly, “friends don’t let friends shoot .22s at 1,000 yards.” (Credit Bryan Litz)

 

[BruntBronze]

Nothing wrong with a grendel, but I’m not sure I follow the logic on the 224Valkyrie. If you think you’re going to shoot the heavies, just get a 1:6.5t and be done. That twist handles 69-95gr from what I’ve tested. It shoots the 95smk’s great, but the heavies aren’t where it’s at for the Valkyrie and long range if you reload.

A 1:7t works for up to the 90smk’s, even at low elevation if you have enough velocity. The 1:7.5t works with the 85.5 berger but is marginal with 90’s unless you’re up in elevation.

Of my 3 valk barrels, the 1:7.5t is the one I enjoy shooting the most. It does great with the 80-85.5’s.

thats actually what ive read. 75/80's seem to be the go to bullet while the 90's arent.

my point was that there wasnt a single twist to function on all 223 offerings. 1:6 and the 55gr-ers blowup. 1:8 and you cant run the long and heavies.

the twist rate calculator depends on bullet length...with the berger 90 being the longest. and thats a lot of twist.

 

[Jackomason]

thats actually what ive read. 75/80's seem to be the go to bullet while the 90's arent.

my point was that there wasnt a single twist to function on all 223 offerings. 1:6 and the 55gr-ers blowup. 1:8 and you cant run the long and heavies.

the twist rate calculator depends on bullet length...with the berger 90 being the longest. and thats a lot of twist.

the whole twist rate thing is a joke. buy a 1:7 and be done. I haven't found anything mine wont shoot. accuracy issues are coming from somewhere else.

 

[rustyinbend]

If I was starting over, I think I would try a 6mm ARC and skip the 224V and the 6.5G

AMEN BRUTHA !!!

 

[ToeX]

After trying match and magnum primers, 5 different powders, 5 different bullet types, and a few hundred rounds. I’ve finally developed a load that shoots sub MOA consistently.
The hardest part for me was figuring out that I had to get an adjustable gas block to regulate the brass ejection pattern. After I did that, the sub MOA groups were consistent for me.

 

[JbBooks]

Yes the 224 Valkyrie will be phased out in 1-3 months, so y’all can send me all your brass and bullets and I will “store” them for you, so your bench isn’t cluttered with obsolete stuff.

 

[Constructor]

I just feel like the 224V was invented to get rid of 6.8 SPC brass manufacturing capacity. It’s good, but I think the 6 arc shows what ballistically you can do with an AR magazine sized cartridge and still fit the parameters of magazine feasibility. Everyone talks about thousand yards, thousand yards, thousand yards, but how many people actually shoot competitions to that range?
224V seems to have an advantage when it comes to getting cheap blaster ammo. But if the idea of these 224V or 6arc guns is to have a good accurate rifle, are you really going to use it in blaster mode, or just have a 556 upper or rifle. But the 224V does seem to have the advantage of cheaper ammo for practice. At least for now.
On the idea of having the same cartridge for an AR platform and for a bolt gun, it seems like the six arc has advantages in being able to use one load. The 224V and bolt gun just seems to be begging to be loaded long which then leads to having two versions, one for ArRs, and one for both guns. And that’s not really saving anything.

The 6arc round is not gonna be the end of the what is the new hotness quest.

No it wasn't made to get rid of 6.8 brass manufacturing capacity. We have actually talked to the guys that pushed the round through. What happens when you shoot a M855 A1 200fps faster than a 5.56 can? That is one option with bullets already available in addition the plan was 90gr SMKs will smoke the drop and drift of a 308 while being lighter, lighter platform, lighter ammo. Some thought the mil may be interested in a longer range but lighter weapon than the 308.

 

[Islander]

Well, I went out and tested the “bullet jump doesn’t matter” theory today at 100 yds. It was below freezing and a little windy so my trigger control wasn’t stellar. I just loaded 5 rounds with the Sierra 95 gr. with a charge right in the middle of their load data. Seated to a COAL of 2.260 gives it a bullet jump of around .055. Not to bad, with a little testing might get better.

 

[Jackomason]

Well, I went out and tested the “bullet jump doesn’t matter” theory today at 100 yds. It was below freezing and a little windy so my trigger control wasn’t stellar. I just loaded 5 rounds with the Sierra 95 gr. with a charge right in the middle of their load data. Seated to a COAL of 2.260 gives it a bullet jump of around .055. Not to bad, with a little testing might get better.

have you already tested the 80s and 88 eldm? mine did like jump and shot the 88s crazy well. although they always liked to be run a little slower with H4895. varget seemed promising but i only had remnants of a LB..

this was 2750 with the 88s out of a 26" tube. pulled one, i have no doubt it would have landed with its friends.

 

[ScottPriestley]

Aero, JP, PSA - all exiting - that's not a good sign.

 

[Islander]

Just bought a box of the 88 ELD’s. I’ve been testing the Sierra 77 and 95. Hopefully it will warm up a bit and I’ll give the Hornady bullets a try. I’ve had some great 4 shot groups and then pulled the fifth, lol.