Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

Jon Lester

Jon Lester

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 7, 2004
1,826
29
Tazewell . Virginia
#1
Not sure if this is the place but:
Flat shooting
High BC Bullets
Decent barrel life
Can be built very accurate
Brass is available
Recoil does not make snot fly at every shot
Can keep velocities below match standards
Can spot impacts better than 6mm offerings (misses)

What do you think? Seems 243 and 260s have had their run along with the WSMs, is their room for something else?
 
#4
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

well,in my humble opinion/and expierience....
I`ve competed with .308,.243,6.5x.284 and this year with 3 guns in.284....
with 180 Bergers or 175 SMK`s at 2850-3000 ft/sec.and a ballistic coeffcient bullet of about .5
it really makes a fella look good.. as a shooter and a pleasure doing so....
OMHO... mileage will vary..
bill larson
 
#5
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

It makes a nice balance for extra snot on matches that have a high number of shots that push 4 digits. The short action cases in 6.5 and 7 start to run out of steam when you roll past a grand, the high BC 170-190class bullets do great in the wind and throw plenty of dirt up on misses.

I have a 6.5 CM and a 7/300 WSM as my 2 primary match rifles and the 7/300 has some serious ass behind it. 27" and 180 Bergers going 3100fps makes for a serious "wind cheater" but without a brake or suppressor it can get old. I try to run it suppressed just for shooter fatigue reasons, I detest brakes both as the shooter and the nearby observer.

The 284 is an excellent all around cartridge for hunting, tactical matches, and general long range target use. It is hard to classify something as "the best" because if we're going there then we can call up the 30-06 with 210 class bullets too, as well as several other rounds in that size such as the 280 Remington.
 
#7
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The one fault I have found is that I built a long action for VLD type bullets and mags are stupidly expensive for some reason. </div></div>

As cheesy as it sounds, the Cabela's Kwik Klip setup is 3.33" internal on the magazine and doesn't work well with the 30-06 or 300 WM cases. It works great for WSM and 284 cases with a little mag lip tuning.

The kit drops into the standard Rem inlet, 4 round mags are $30 and 10 rounders are $35.
 
#8
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

Do you that shoot this round think I will benefit from a brake on my 284win build? Savage LA in a XLR chassis and 28" bbl @1" at the muzzle. I plan on getting a suppressor sometime next year but for now would it be wise to put a removable brake (FTE) on it?
 
#9
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

I don't like the brakes eithet they are very noisy and bad all around for people both shooting and observing.

I think a can is the best but then with a 28" barrel a can can really a hinderonce.

As for the caliber the 284 is a great choice. I just had one built to shoot the 162AMAX and 168 Bergers and its a "Hammer". The recoil is a little stiffer than a 308 and very noticable over my 260s. There is little though you can say bad about the 284s.
 
#12
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical_Tom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">7mm short mags may be better. </div></div>

may be better at what?

i love my .284 win in a long action. if it's not the perfect long range tactical cartridge, it's pretty close in my opinion. if you want an all around tactical comp gun for matches that will include obstacles, positional shooting, long range and close range targets and lots of movement, i think a 260 rem would be my choice.
 
#13
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

John

What powder did you settle on with the 284/168s?

What velocity are you actually getting?

Do you ever see yourself leaving the 7 WSM in the vehicle and toating the 284 at ASC?

I would think that the 284 has huge merits for most matches where most shots are 750 or so and closer or known distance matches. Mainly because of barrel life, recoil, and component cost. But in my mind atleast it seems the 7 WSM is hard to beat for matches such as ASC

And to go off topic for a minute.

In you opinion, What barrel life do you feel you will get out of both the 7WSM and the 284 before accuracy starts to fall off.
 
#14
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

4831sc gives me 3k with the long barreland 168 bergers, with Brad shooting ASC we will have both out at the unrestricted matches. We have done some side by side work with the two and verticle dope stays close but the 180s in the mag kick wind a little better. It was the rifle I went to when the primary broke at the Last ASC and on the first stage I ran it I had a second round connection on the shot that was nearly a mile.

Barrel life stumps me, I am being really reserve with the 7 WSM and only gunning it in matches because I am afraid the next barrel wont be this good. The 284, I hope to go to 2500 but that is based on a wild guess so I cant help much here.

I do have a good line on a tube gun build in the future and I think another 284 will be the choice. With two shooters in the faimly repitition can be a good thing.

I, like most are watching the boards to start hearing of some actual barrel life data but not much actual talk about shooting the 284 out exists. I have some real world data on the 6.5 version and that led me to go 284 on this rebarrel 1000-1200 rounds per tube was too much!
 
#15
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

i've seen two .284's shooting the same load (54.5 grains of 4831sc and a 175 smk) start to fall off around 2600 rounds and get replaced at 3k. with the same load, mines sitting at 2800 right now and is still shooting really good.
 
#16
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

Don't foget about the 280REM. Since you're already going to a 284 in a L/A why not just go to a L/A cartridge? Jury is still out on barrel life like the 284 but I believe it would be pretty similar. Case capacity might be slightly more for the 280 but I would be they're pretty close there too.No rebated rim on the 280 if that kinda thing bothers you.
 
#17
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

For what it's worth - the 284 rifle I chose to start using in tactical shooting. Mine is a Rem 700 LA with 27" shilen barrel. I use a brake and it takes most of the recoil out of the equation - again in my opinion. Using 53.5 RL-17 behind a 162 A-Max avg. 2973. Have been really pleased with my choice - wind holds compared to a 260 maybe a little less but have been about .5 to 1.5 mils less than what other folks that I have shot with are calling for 308's
 
#18
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

The 280 Rem is a great cartridge, you can get the high end of 284 performance with about 10ksi lower pressures. Barrel life is just as good.

If you really hot rod it, you can get very close to the performance of a 7 SAUM.
 
#19
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: .257</div><div class="ubbcode-body">John

What powder did you settle on with the 284/168s?

What velocity are you actually getting?

Do you ever see yourself leaving the 7 WSM in the vehicle and toating the 284 at ASC?

I would think that the 284 has huge merits for most matches where most shots are 750 or so and closer or known distance matches. Mainly because of barrel life, recoil, and component cost. But in my mind atleast it seems the 7 WSM is hard to beat for matches such as ASC

And to go off topic for a minute.

In you opinion, What barrel life do you feel you will get out of both the 7WSM and the 284 before accuracy starts to fall off.

</div></div>

I'm not Jon but can tell you I'm getting 2950 fps out of the 162 Amax w/H4350. Will have to look at my notes to see what charge but I think it's around 53 gr.
 
#20
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

I run a .284 in a 700 LA for my all-around long range comp gun. 175 SMK over RL-17 yields 2850 ES of 20 SD of 8 out of a 25.5" barrel. Things get a bit long with the can on the end, but its still manageable.

I use the 300 win mag AICS magazines and can fit 6 in the 5-round magazine and 11 in the 10-round magazine.

There is a huge difference in downrange energy between the 284 and 6mms, which means it is easier to spot rounds and it really gets the MGM flashers going, even at extended range.

The only downside: brass availability. Winchester makes a run every couple of years, so you have to stock up or use Lapua or Norma ($$$$).
 
#21
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 280 Rem is a great cartridge, you can get the high end of 284 performance with about 10ksi lower pressures. Barrel life is just as good.

If you really hot rod it, you can get very close to the performance of a 7 SAUM. </div></div>

I really, really love my .280 AI long-range hunting rifle. If going with a 7mm LA comp gun, that would be my first choice.
 
#22
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

Oh, one issue that I forgot to mention was shell ejection. I had to have some bolt work done to eject properly - may be just the Remington bolt. Put a slight chamfer to accept the 284 base and it works fine.
 
#23
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

I'm not Jon but can tell you I'm getting 2950 fps out of the 162 Amax w/H4350. Will have to look at my notes to see what charge but I think it's around 53 gr. [/quote]

Barrel length?

Thanks
 
#25
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 3rdgss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I'm not Jon but can tell you I'm getting 2950 fps out of the 162 Amax w/H4350. Will have to look at my notes to see what charge but I think it's around 53 gr. </div></div>
That's sound about right. My .284 with 25" barrel, 52 gr of H4350 and 162 a-max chorno at 2860 fps.
 
#26
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

FWIW the .284 and its Shehane variant is the very popular at the 1k F-class matches at Bayou Rifles south of Houston.

My .284 has a 30" barrel and with a Berger 180gr Hybrid jumped 0.030" and 56.3gr of H4831sc I get 2850fps. Necked up and turned Lapua brass. That's a pretty stiff load, but shoots great. 57gr barely any faster, less accurate and stiff bolt lift.

Works best in a long action. Mine loads out to over 3.20" OAL, with the boat tail right above the neck-shoulder junction. Even with a 168gr OAL is over 3".
 
#27
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

Well, I got home from work today and my Shilen prefit 284 win barrel was here inside the door. I put my Hornady OAL gauge in the chamber with a 162gr Amax. If I load to 3.1 OAL it's a .33" jump. Does that sound like too much jump. If I were to load to the lands, only the boat tail is in the case mouth.
 
#29
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pyplynr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I got home from work today and my Shilen prefit 284 win barrel was here inside the door. I put my Hornady OAL gauge in the chamber with a 162gr Amax. If I load to 3.1 OAL it's a .33" jump. Does that sound like too much jump. If I were to load to the lands, only the boat tail is in the case mouth. </div></div>

No, the throat is way too long. Even if it was throated for a 180gr VLD (needs a longer throat than the 180gr Hybrids I shoot for the same OAL) it shouldn't be that long. Barrel needs to be set back and rechambered. Send them a dummy round with the bullet you intend to shoot loaded to the OAL you want and ask them to throat it to that.
 
#30
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nhm16</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, the throat is way too long. Even if it was throated for a 180gr VLD (needs a longer throat than the 180gr Hybrids I shoot for the same OAL) it shouldn't be that long. Barrel needs to be set back and rechambered. Send them a dummy round with the bullet you intend to shoot loaded to the OAL you want and ask them to throat it to that. </div></div>

That's what has me kinda ticked off. It's a brand new Shilen pre-fit barrel for a Savage chambered by Shilen themselves. I'm was planning to try the 162 amax, 175 smk and 180 Hybrids. Should I call Shilen or call the company/middleman that I bought it from?
 
#31
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

56 gr of RL 17 will get you 3050 in a 280 ai with 162s with a 28 in tube. 6.2 mils to 1000 I think. I get 12 rnds in a 10 rnd aic 300 win mag mag. Mine is a hammer, Even in a junky old savage. I would/will build a reg 280 if this barrel ever burns, I m pretty sure the extra velocity is not worth the fire forming, I was shooting 189s in it but it didnt kill well. i would like to go back to them. They would be awsome in a 284 long action cause you seat them so far out. Your capacity would be way more with the long action. I am staying with 162s cause they are easy to get. They dont shoot as well as the 189s but really what is the difference in .1s/.2s and .3s/.4s in the field?
 
#34
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not sure if this is the place but:
Flat shooting
High BC Bullets
Decent barrel life
Can be built very accurate
Brass is available
Recoil does not make snot fly at every shot
Can keep velocities below match standards
Can spot impacts better than 6mm offerings (misses)

What do you think? Seems 243 and 260s have had their run along with the WSMs, is their room for something else?
</div></div>

Medium length tube in a 7-08 may be easier to shoot on a 300 round weekend, and a BC in the low 6's going 2800 should run with the 6.5's and 6's while retaining energy further and being an easy short action caliber.
 
#35
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

I presume everyone shooting the 162 Amax and the 168 Berger are using a 1-9 twist barrel?

It's interesting that two bullet manufactures say that a 1-9.5 or 1-10 are recommended, but 3 barrel makers that I have contacted say that a 1-9 twist rate is required. Reason being that it will let you shoot both the 180's and 168 grain bullets.
 
#37
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

.284 just replaced my .308 as a match gun.
25" 9.5-8.9 gain-twist Bartlein heavy Palma on a long action:
IMG_3584.jpg

5-shot groups at 100m on a scaled down 3/4-inch grid:
IMG_3495.jpg
 
#38
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

i'm curious how that gain twist barrel works out for you graham. i was thinking about experimenting with one in a little bit faster twist rate. i was thinking about leaving the muzzle at about a 9.5 twist. in the end i knew what was already successful for me so i stayed with a 9 twist. when i fit the new barrel, i am going to finish it at 31". if i don't gain any velocity or i find it too cumbersome compared to the 27", it's easy enough for me to shorten it.
 
#39
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon Lester</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not sure if this is the place but:
Flat shooting
High BC Bullets
Decent barrel life
Can be built very accurate
Brass is available
Recoil does not make snot fly at every shot
Can keep velocities below match standards
Can spot impacts better than 6mm offerings (misses)

What do you think? Seems 243 and 260s have had their run along with the WSMs, is their room for something else?
</div></div>

Medium length tube in a 7-08 may be easier to shoot on a 300 round weekend, and a BC in the low 6's going 2800 should run with the 6.5's and 6's while retaining energy further and being an easy short action caliber. </div></div>

+1
 
#40
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

You can ask Brett above as he is my shooting partner at some competitions. My rig is a serious wind cheater.

I'm running the following load out with my stick (specs in sig).

162 Hornady Match BTHP
47.2g H4350
Winchestor brass
CCI 200
2.875 OAL
Getting 2780fps consistantly

With this load I was elevation correct and 3min wind drift off at a mile last weekend. This set up has no trouble at the Intimidator at TVP targets out to 1165 and bonus target at a mile. Expected barrel life is in the 5-9k range but I'm not pushing anywhere near the max powder charge for my load so I expect it to be there for a long time.

PM with any questions you might have.

Good luck,
Merritt
 
#41
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i'm curious how that gain twist barrel works out for you graham. i was thinking about experimenting with one in a little bit faster twist rate. i was thinking about leaving the muzzle at about a 9.5 twist. in the end i knew what was already successful for me so i stayed with a 9 twist. when i fit the new barrel, i am going to finish it at 31". if i don't gain any velocity or i find it too cumbersome compared to the 27", it's easy enough for me to shorten it. </div></div>

At what altitude do you regularly shoot? I went with an 8" twist on mine since I shoot at 800-1000ft regularly.
 
#42
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

Looking at published Nosler data, the .284 Win delivers adequate performance, but the .280 Rem consistently drives the same bullets at a minimum of 200fps faster, all from a converntionally available chambering. This jibes with friends' comments that the .284 (and 7-08) is(are) OK, but not all that outstanding, at longer distances.

Greg
 
#43
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

I like the shoulder of the .284 better for both case life and (any such)inherent accuracy: there is significantly more case stretch with the .280.
 
#44
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308MAUS3R</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i'm curious how that gain twist barrel works out for you graham. i was thinking about experimenting with one in a little bit faster twist rate. i was thinking about leaving the muzzle at about a 9.5 twist. in the end i knew what was already successful for me so i stayed with a 9 twist. when i fit the new barrel, i am going to finish it at 31". if i don't gain any velocity or i find it too cumbersome compared to the 27", it's easy enough for me to shorten it. </div></div>

At what altitude do you regularly shoot? I went with an 8" twist on mine since I shoot at 800-1000ft regularly.
</div></div>

i shoot matches out to 1k yards at 250 feet. i mess around in the woods at 5500-6000 feet and found with the 9 twist, my 175 smk's were tumbling before they made it to 1500 yards. this is my comp rifle and i know the 9 twist has been working great for that so i stuck with the 9.
 
#45
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the shoulder of the .284 better for both case life and (any such)inherent accuracy: there is significantly more case stretch with the .280. </div></div>


Not if you recalibrate it to Ackley.
wink.gif
 
#47
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looking at published Nosler data, the .284 Win delivers adequate performance, but the .280 Rem consistently drives the same bullets at a minimum of 200fps faster, all from a converntionally available chambering.

Greg </div></div>

That may be true in a short-action, but in a long-action, I don't think the 284 gives up any powder capacity to the 280 at all.
 
#48
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

Greg,

In real world loadings the 284 will usually outperform the 280. It will fall between the 280 and the 280imp. for performance. My soninlaw has the 280 and I have the 284.

They are both really nice long range rounds and I would be happy with either one. Mine is deadly accurate and easy to load for. I had mine chambered to shoot the 162 to 168s because I only have a 27" barrel.

I know your a big fan of the 260s (As am I) but you will love the 284 or 280 for "Long" range work.
 
#49
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael Aos</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looking at published Nosler data, the .284 Win delivers adequate performance, but the .280 Rem consistently drives the same bullets at a minimum of 200fps faster, all from a converntionally available chambering.

Greg </div></div>

That may be true in a short-action, but in a long-action, I don't think the 284 gives up any powder capacity to the 280 at all. </div></div>

Useful capacity in a long action 284 is about 1.5-2gr lower than the 280 Rem.

The difference is much smaller, but it is still there. If you push the 280 to an AI version you are essentially at the 7 SAUM, you have about 4gr of powder difference between the 284 and a 280 AI.
 
#50
Re: Is 284 win the answer to the all around comp gun?

Raptor;

Yes; that's exactly my thinking.

It is my plan to acquire a L-W 28" barrel chambered for .280 Rem when I can come up with the shekels. I will be mounting it on my SA Sav 10FP, with a single feed follower, simply a swap with my current L-W 28" .260 Rem barrel

Also on the wish list is a 6BR barrel, and a faster twist .22-250.

My long term goal for the Ghost Dancer has always been to use the basic system as a switch barrel foundation; but the actual opportunity has been beyond grasp up until now. That may be changing soon.

Bohem;

My preference for the .280 Rem over the .284 Win is really very simply understood. I inherited a pair of Ruger MK I's in the chambering, one a sporter, the other identical except for the factory Varmint weight barrel.

I got into handloading for the .280 Rem simply from a basic personal sense of obligation to put the rifles to good use. My Eldest Brother thought a lot like me about chamberings and their more appropriate applications; and he simply got a good idea before I could, and at a time when he could afford to indulge his viewpoints, and I couldn't. When he died, I simply became the beneficiary of some of his more useful wisdoms.

Greg
 
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