Re: Is 308 suffiecient for whitetail?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: uhcoog1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
On a chest shot in which the bullet doesn't actually pass through the heart or lungs, a controlled expansion hunting bullet has a higher probability of expanding and causing a greater hydraulic effect than a non-expanding match bullet. The larger hydraulic effect would leave a larger would channel, and would damage cells further out from the would channel as well. The area impacted would be greater, meaning a larger area in which the deer could be shot causing fatal lung/heart wounds (even though the bullet did not directly hit them).
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The hydraulic effect doesn't kill, it does cause other issues, partaining to blood vessel damage, nerve damage, and brain signals to muscles for movement, hence the reactions to being shot to jump, drop, stumble, ect. If you don't hit something vital, energy from bullet pass through isn't going to damage it. You have to hit it, to destroy it. Now if you hit a rib on the way in, high velocity bone fragments can do it for you. Study ballistic gelatin videos and pictures, the temporary wound cavity is just that, temporary. The permananent cavity is seldom much larger than the bullet's diameter. Match bullets still expand, perhaps just not quite as reliably, but even still, they will deform to some degree on the way in, and likely tumble at the very least. Both of which, are very dramatic, and damaging.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: uhcoog1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On a shoulder bone shot, a controlled expansion hunting bullet will make it into the chest cavity with more frequency than a match bullet.</div></div>
I can't argue with that statement, but we're talking about whitetail deer, and .308 caliber bullets. I can see a whitetail shoulder stopping a really light 6mm or even a really light 6.5mm bullet, but not a normal 150gr or heavier .308 bullet. I can't imagine a whitetail shoulder being any tougher on a bullet than say...a 4x4 wood board. I have yet to see a .308 bullet be stopped by a 4x4 post. I know there are stories out there about folks that say a bullet just hit the deer and stopped, but what were the ranges? There is likely another underlying issue, but that's just my opinon.
The 4x4 post seems like a good test to see if a bullet will punch through a shoulder. It's a bit of an extreme test, but it would be a good worst case scenario.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: uhcoog1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For someone that can't 100% ensure they won't hit the shoulder bone and/or miss the vital organs, I vote for a hunting bullet.</div></div>
If you miss the vital organs, no bullet is going to help you any better than another.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: uhcoog1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hunting bullets and match bullets both kill animals. Hunting bullets have a higher probability over a larger impact area of killing the animal. </div></div>
So the heart and lungs shrink, and/or grow based on what bullet you use? That's remarkable, how does it know? I know what you're intent in your statement was, however IMO it's flawed. A hit is a hit on the heart or lungs, a hunting bullet isn't going to mean that a hit high on the lungs is going to be deadly, whereas a hit with a matchking will not. A hit from a full metal jacket right through the heart and/or lungs will be just as fatal as a expanding bullet. The deer might run a few yards farther before it expires, but die it will.
You know, if I was a cruel prick without some morals, I would demostrate this by shooting a deer with a full metal jacket bullet and see if it dies. OH wait, it's already been done (not by me). There is another poster on this site that is current Army, and has seen deer on the ranges on post get hit with military ball 7.62 ammo, and guess what....the deer died, and not after running 2 miles and bleeding out through a pencil hole in it. I'm sure there are plenty of deer hunters throughout the country that have shot deer with full metal jackets for whatever reason.
I've been wanting to do some testing on match bullets and milk jugs of water. I know it's not a super scientific test, but it's a test that's well within my budget. I've been wanting to test the expansion threshold of the bullets I use. 175 Smk's, 155 Scenars, and the Amax line of bullets. I can almost guarantee that those darn non-expanding match bullets will still do just that.
Branden
P.S. I reserve the right to edit as many times and necessary until it all makes sense.
