Is 6.5 Creedmoor a viable SA cartridge?

[eravelo]

Noticing the recent decline in accuracy of Hornady Match 6.5 Creedmoor ammunition, and the seeming lack of loaded ammo from other manufacturers, is this still a viable option in a short Remington action?

Was hoping to build a such a barreled action for my Manners T5a, as I have a 308 allready, but I want factory match ammo available in case I don't get a chance to reload.

Your thoughts?

Thx,

Jorge

 

[bkw1911]

If you want loaded ammo then you might look at a 260 for more dealers selling match grade loads in a few bullet options. I think the newer 6.5 creed though if you only needed it in a pinch would still get the job done. It still shoots 3/4" in a lot of rifles.

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[majohnson2]

I wonder why the decline, is this a short term issue or a long term problem? At least with a 308 you can always find something.

 

[shoot4fun]

The 120 gr Hornady load never shot well in my guns and got the same report from most who tried it. I still have a few of the original 140 gr loads around because I mostly shoot my reloads. A friend has some of the newer Hornady 140 Match loads and I frankly don't see any difference between them and what I have.
BTW, how are you noticing that their 6.5CM ammo is losing accuracy lately if you don't have a rifle chambered in the caliber and have not been using it for the entire time it has been on the market?
Oh well, to answer your question, yes it still is viable as a SA option. I have 260 and 6.5CM. The 6.5CM gets shot a helluva lot more.

 

[Hairball]

I have not noticed any decline in accuracy with Hornady. Just picked up 5 boxes recently and it performed as expected. I have put off reloading this caliber as factory loads are performing well. What issues are you having?

 

[eravelo]

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting.../236169-hornady-140-amax-ammo-old-vs-new.html

 

[Sgposin]

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting.../236169-hornady-140-amax-ammo-old-vs-new.html

Thank you for the brick that I just Defecated... just got 3 cases from Mile high

 

[eravelo]

Thank you for the brick that I just Defecated... just got 3 cases from Mile high

As you can see in the latest posts, not all recent ammo gives popped/cratered primers or bad accuracy. YMMV.
But if after 5 years Hornady is the only major provider of quality loaded 6.5CM ammo, and this drop-off occurs, then one is tempted to look at other calibers.
Granted there are other brands such as Copper Creek Ammo that offer the product, albeit at 50% more cost.

If I had the time to reload, no problem. Maybe I should stick to FGMM 175 SMK BTHP's in 308 and quit worrying about where my next round is coming from.

 

[Rob01]

is this a short term issue

Yes. 2014 will be a good year. Don't give up on the Creedmoor just yet folks.

 

[kurt]

It is going out I will take all the 6.5 cm brass off any ones hands so they don't have it laying around pm me for address

 

[eravelo]

Yes. 2014 will be a good year. Don't give up on the Creedmoor just yet folks.

The sage speaketh...from your lips to God's ear!

Can you elaborate?

 

[Rob01]

Can you elaborate?

No. Sorry

 

[shoot4fun]

I read all the posts on the linked thread. Talk about how shitty RL17 is. Yea, I hate it so much I just bought 6 more pounds.
I started out with RL17 in the 6.5CM behind 142SMK. It has given me fantastic accuracy without pressure and has stayed at 2850 FPS for the entire four years I have had the rifle. I do have a 130VLD load with H4350. It pushed the 130 at just over 3000 FPS.
I have been thru the Hornady facility and am a friend of Jason Hornady. They are good folks and can only act on what shooters tell them. If you think just putting this these threads here is a call to action for them you may be mistaken. Not everyone, especially ammo manufacturers, have the time to do a lot of reading in forums right now. My suggestion is that if you have VALID proof then give Hornady a call and discuss it directly with them. I'm sure Rob01 has.
BTW, PM me if you want an address to send all your shitty 6.5CM ammo and brass to. I will happily recycle it for no charge.

 

[shoot4fun]

No. Sorry

Maybe they are getting H4350 again.
I would really like to see 6 and 7 mm options added to the Creedmoor family.

Or maybe they could do one in 30 cal and call it the 30T/C

 

[shovelstrokeed]

I have used 6.5 CM factory loaded rounds from both Hornady and Copper Creek in 120, and 140 Amax for the Hornady and 139 Lapua and 140 Berger from Copper Creek.
120 Amax and 139 Scenar produced outstanding groups in my rifle. Still nice and flat in either bullet weight with the 139 Scenar giving the best 5 shot group so far at 0.302 c-c @ 100 yds, the 120 Amax not far behind at 0.342 c-c. Both sub-1.5" @ 200 as well.
If this is bad, I'll take it.

 

[eravelo]

I read all the posts on the linked thread. Talk about how shitty RL17 is. Yea, I hate it so much I just bought 6 more pounds.
I started out with RL17 in the 6.5CM behind 142SMK. It has given me fantastic accuracy without pressure and has stayed at 2850 FPS for the entire four years I have had the rifle. I do have a 130VLD load with H4350. It pushed the 130 at just over 3000 FPS.
I have been thru the Hornady facility and am a friend of Jason Hornady. They are good folks and can only act on what shooters tell them. If you think just putting this these threads here is a call to action for them you may be mistaken. Not everyone, especially ammo manufacturers, have the time to do a lot of reading in forums right now. My suggestion is that if you have VALID proof then give Hornady a call and discuss it directly with them. I'm sure Rob01 has.
BTW, PM me if you want an address to send all your shitty 6.5CM ammo and brass to. I will happily recycle it for no charge.

My initial post only asked about the viability of this great round, largely a Hornady development, when after five years or so they are the only large scale provider cranking it out.
Hornady is great company no doubt, but in the other thread calls to them went unanswered. I am sure that they are on top of whatever issue caused these problems.
I don't have time to reload anymore, and I have grown accustomed to FGMM products in 223 & 308.
If Hornady continues to support this cartridge, then there is no reason to worry.

 

[KelsonAK]

Nosler has brass for the 6.5CM now - ammo can't be far behind!

 

[Sgposin]

Nosler has brass for the 6.5CM now - ammo can't be far behind!

The ammo is available. It just costs an arm and a leg

Ammo To Go : 20rds - 6.5 Creedmoor Nosler Trophy Grade 140gr. Ballistic Tip Ammo [48232] - $47.95

 

[BozFour]

The ammo is available. It just costs an arm and a leg

Ammo To Go : 20rds - 6.5 Creedmoor Nosler Trophy Grade 140gr. Ballistic Tip Ammo [48232] - $47.95

I just got some in, hopefully i can get out to shoot it soon and see how it does.

 

[Pusher591]

No. Sorry

Hornady better let somebody know something, I know three people who's re-barreled to a similar caliber these past couple weeks strictly due to issues with the new ammo. Bad move on their part changes powders and not letting the consumer know, now we should be patient for them?

 

[Rob01]

Hornady better let somebody know something, I know three people who's re-barreled to a similar caliber these past couple weeks strictly due to issues with the new ammo. Bad move on their part changes powders and not letting the consumer know, now we should be patient for them?

Take it up with Hornady if you have complaints or want more info. I don't work for them but I shoot for them and I am just trying to get some info out and let people know not to worry and 2014 will be a better year. Sorry I can't say more.

 

[RRW]

Take it up with Hornady if you have complaints or want more info. I don't work for them but I shoot for them and I am just trying to get some info out and let people know not to worry and 2014 will be a better year. Sorry I can't say more.

By the sounds of it several people have taken it up with Hornady but have not received any info. I hope that Hornady does say more then. I understand you are supported by Hornady and as such a staunch supporter. When issues do arise you would expect a company would acknowledge that and keep people informed. Reading between the lines it's obvious there is an issue, they are aware but nobody has been told but apparently 2014 will be a better year. I guess we will see if thats true.

 

[shoot4fun]

Hornady better let somebody know something, I know three people who's re-barreled to a similar caliber these past couple weeks strictly due to issues with the new ammo. Bad move on their part changes powders and not letting the consumer know, now we should be patient for them?

Reality Check!!!

Ammo makers change things all the time and NEVER feel the need to "let us know".
As long as the change doesn't start blowing up rifles they don't see it as an issue.
Big issue with 6.5CM is the fact that other manufacturers have been too slow in adapting to this great little round.
This is life with the 6.5 anything in USA. Face it that the 6.5 is just not supported by a wide enough section of the shooting/hunting community to be a big deal for most manufacturers.

 

[KYS]

Noticing the recent decline in accuracy of Hornady Match 6.5 Creedmoor ammunition, and the seeming lack of loaded ammo from other manufacturers, is this still a viable option in a short Remington action?

Was hoping to build a such a barreled action for my Manners T5a, as I have a 308 allready, but I want factory match ammo available in case I don't get a chance to reload.

Your thoughts?

Thx,

Jorge

It's still a great caliber. Hornady Factory Match ammo is starting to come back around. I notice it in the stores more often now. You can also go the route of custom loaded ammo from Copper Creek Cartridge Co. They offer a really great load based on the 140gr Berger Hybrid. I have shot thousands of rounds of it with excellent downrange results. Let him point your bullets before loading and you will really be excited to see the difference at farther shots.

6.5mm Creedmoor

Three pages of choices.....

 

[eravelo]

If there is an issue Hornady probably knows about it allready.
They have a great reputation and likely have fixed it by now.
The issue was the powder, and with so many bottlenecks in the industry they were caught out by a change in powder that didn't work out as planned.

Again my intention was not to dump on Hornady, but to question the commercial availability of the great cartridge they created.

 

[Pusher591]

Reality Check!!!

Ammo makers change things all the time and NEVER feel the need to "let us know".
As long as the change doesn't start blowing up rifles they don't see it as an issue.
Big issue with 6.5CM is the fact that other manufacturers have been too slow in adapting to this great little round.
This is life with the 6.5 anything in USA. Face it that the 6.5 is just not supported by a wide enough section of the shooting/hunting community to be a big deal for most manufacturers.

Reality check!!!!!


Business's that want to see sizable profit listen to their consumers.

Hornady doesn't have to do anything or tell us anything but if they continue to make ammo that does not shoot and in flagship caliber such as the 6.5 Creed then their profits WILL suffer, that's buisness 101.
I don't care if they switch it back, that's fine with me I'll re-barrel to .260 if I have to pay for custom ammo. That will be that much less profit for them. I'll be sure to make sure they know you're defending their mistake and are basically speaking on their behalf.

 

[Rob01]

By the sounds of it several people have taken it up with Hornady but have not received any info. I hope that Hornady does say more then. I understand you are supported by Hornady and as such a staunch supporter. When issues do arise you would expect a company would acknowledge that and keep people informed. Reading between the lines it's obvious there is an issue, they are aware but nobody has been told but apparently 2014 will be a better year. I guess we will see if thats true.

Like I said I am just trying to help out and get you people some info. Guess I will rethink that next time.

 

[Pusher591]

Take it up with Hornady if you have complaints or want more info. I don't work for them but I shoot for them and I am just trying to get some info out and let people know not to worry and 2014 will be a better year. Sorry I can't say more.

Rob, I wasn't flaming you or anything. I'm frustrated with Hornady because they want publically address the issue. I've emailed and called with no answer to either.

The 6.5 Creed is a great round and with ammo that provides 1/2 MOA or less with prices in the mid twenty dollar range, they had a awesome deal going. I really hope they switch back to H4350 and get their act together.

 

[eravelo]

I have heard all I want to hear.
Will go 6.5CM

 

[Sgposin]

Rob, I wasn't flaming you or anything. I'm frustrated with Hornady because they want publically address the issue. I've emailed and called with no answer to either.

The 6.5 Creed is a great round and with ammo that provides 1/2 MOA or less with prices in the mid twenty dollar range, they had a awesome deal going. I really hope they switch back to H4350 and get their act together.

I just talked to them @ 1-800-338-3220 option 3. No hold time and got answers to every question I had.

 

[Irokcrawl]

Edit. The message went to the wrong place. Lol. I would just like to see a little better brass from hornady. 5 reloads and done isn't acceptable in my opinion.

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[Pusher591]

I just talked to them @ 1-800-338-3220 option 3. No hold time and got answers to every question I had.

Awesome!! I will try that number, thanks!

 

[Sgposin]

Awesome!! I will try that number, thanks!

Let us know what they say!

 

[eravelo]

I just talked to them @ 1-800-338-3220 option 3. No hold time and got answers to every question I had.

What did you ask?
What did they say?

 

[Sgposin]

What did you ask?
What did they say?

I posted it here:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...36169-hornady-140-amax-ammo-old-vs-new-3.html

 

[shoot4fun]

Reality check!!!!!


Business's that want to see sizable profit listen to their consumers.

Hornady doesn't have to do anything or tell us anything but if they continue to make ammo that does not shoot and in flagship caliber such as the 6.5 Creed then their profits WILL suffer, that's buisness 101.
I don't care if they switch it back, that's fine with me I'll re-barrel to .260 if I have to pay for custom ammo. That will be that much less profit for them. I'll be sure to make sure they know you're defending their mistake and are basically speaking on their behalf.

Check my profile.
You have no idea what you're talking about here.
Manufacturers, ALL of them, regularly make changes to how their long standing products are made. AND they don't ask a single customer first. They do it because one vendor can't cover their needs or because it is less expensive to build after a change. Many times you never even notice it was done. And then only if you are a person who is regularly taking things apart.
My company changed it's most recognized product probably fifteen times during the last 7 years. Most of which made no actual difference to the customer. Not until they made major (for the better) trigger changes did the general buying public notice. BTW, we did not and have not ever made a public statement about that change.
You get less ice cream in a box now than ten years ago. And I bet that ice cream isn't made with the same ingredients either. It is still ice cream and we still buy it.

 

[eravelo]

Two points need to be made.

First, Hornady is not some big anonymous multinational conglomerate that couldn't give a rat's ass what Joe Shooter thought of them.
They are a family-owned American company that are shooters, and it is in their interest to maximize performance and reliability in their product line.
It seems that at some point last year either a change in propellant was made (denied by them), or some shooters suffered unusual coppering that raised pressures (doubt it as the posters in the other thread are experienced.)
Nevertheless there WAS a Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor ammo problem, and if it is on their end it will be or has been corrected.

Second, that doesn't allay my fears about having only one source of match ammo in that caliber, but if what Rob hints is true, they will continue to support it for the time being. It is enough for me to rebarrel to 6.5CM, and save the brass for reloading if I need to.

Enough said.

 

[verdugo60]

Rob01 has always represented himself as a stand up guy on the Hide, if he says it's getting fixed that's enough for me. I'm starting my first 6.5 CM build this week after shooting .260 for the last few years, because of this ammo.

Will be awesome when Winchester starts making brass for it too!

 

[Irokcrawl]

Rob01 has always represented himself as a stand up guy on the Hide, if he says it's getting fixed that's enough for me. I'm starting my first 6.5 CM build this week after shooting .260 for the last few years, because of this ammo.

Will be awesome when Winchester starts making brass for it too!

I will be super excited to see brass other than hornady or nosler. I would gladly pay a buck plus a pop for something that would last longer than 5 firings. I would have to neck it down (6mm creedmoor) but that's no problem. Awesome caliber but not so great brass imo. Hopefully hornady will address that and make the brass where it's not as soft especially in the primer pocket area. Primers falling out in my ammo case after 2 firings is crazy. I've dropped down on my load some but would rather not to keep performance up. 6.4mils to 1k yards rocks though!

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[Kebo57]

I have and shoot a 6.5 CM. I have never fired a factory round so can't answer to good vs. bad. My handloads are working and I can fine tune the load to my gun. As to issues with brass life....maybe you need to quit trying to make the 6.5 CM be a 6.5 X 284. I have cases that have been reloaded 8-10 times....still going strong. My load duplicates the stated factory powder charge of 41.5g H4350 behind a Berger 140 VLD seated to 0.005 off the lands. I'm running a 28" Bartlein 1-8" and getting 2850 over the chronograph. 1200 rounds through it and it still shoots great. I never plan on being without a 6.5CM.

 

[Irokcrawl]

I'm not shooting a 6.5, I'm shooting a 6mm creedmoor which uses proper headstamped hornady 6mm brass but I've sized some 6.5 creedmoore brass down and had the same results. Also have multiple guys I shoot with have the same problem at lower speeds than you are talking about with very conservative powder loads. No change in life of brass. 5 maybe 6 and they are done. Maybe it's just bad luck but it's sad that I had one cases with exactly one firing that had the primer during the second load just fall out. I had a few more that did that but now they seemed to have filtered out and the pockets are staying semi tight on the 4th firing. I guess I'm accustom to getting 20+ firings (annealed every 5th firing or less) on my other setups with federal and lapua brass. I absolutely love the round though so I'll deal with the brass. It's definitely better than nosler from my experience..

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[SFree]

Apparently, Norma is now making 6.5 Creedmor brass. This little honey of a cartridge isn't going anywhere...

 

[sobrbiker883]

Viable SA cartridge, hmmmm....
Dunno.
Best Rifle Caliber ? What the Pros Use | PrecisionRifleBlog.com

 

[MikeBro]

Is there something wrong with the 6.5 CM Hornady ammo ? For factory loads it seems to shoot just fine for me. Is there some specific problem others are having with it ? Maybe a really stupid question but what is "SA" ?

 

[eravelo]

Is there something wrong with the 6.5 CM Hornady ammo ? For factory loads it seems to shoot just fine for me. Is there some specific problem others are having with it ? Maybe a really stupid question but what is "SA" ?

SA=short action
Read the other thread I quoted earlier in this one.

 

[1791PrecisionArmory]

I want to build a 6mm Creedmoor

 

[George Mac]

I'm not shooting a 6.5, I'm shooting a 6mm creedmoor which uses proper headstamped hornady 6mm brass but I've sized some 6.5 creedmoore brass down and had the same results. Also have multiple guys I shoot with have the same problem at lower speeds than you are talking about with very conservative powder loads. No change in life of brass. 5 maybe 6 and they are done. Maybe it's just bad luck but it's sad that I had one cases with exactly one firing that had the primer during the second load just fall out. I had a few more that did that but now they seemed to have filtered out and the pockets are staying semi tight on the 4th firing. I guess I'm accustom to getting 20+ firings (annealed every 5th firing or less) on my other setups with federal and lapua brass. I absolutely love the round though so I'll deal with the brass. It's definitely better than nosler from my experience..

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My 6.5 Creedmoor loads just finished their 5th firing and they are still doing great. I have had about 25~30 out of 400 primer pockets loosen up. (I still got one last firing from them by putting fingernail polish on the primer.) I had the brass annealed at 4 firings and it still shoots bug holes. I have backed off my load to 43.5 of H4350 and all is well with my brass.

 

[MikeBro]

Eravelo, Thank you for directing me to the other thread. Looking at lot numbers I believe I have the older Hornady A-Max ammo which has performed well in my rifle. It must be somewhat entertaining ( or irritating ) for the senior / experienced members of Snipershide to get stupid questions from new people like me...thanks for being understanding !

 

[MikeBro]

George Mac, What primers are you using on your reloads ? I've been told the CCI BR2 primers are good.

 

[eravelo]

MikeBro, your question was not stupid. Glad you are enjoying 6.5CM, I will soon!