Is a detachable magazine worth the increase in weight on a precision/hunting rifle?

[Narwhal]

Hi,

I have a Remington 700 police LTR w/ a Leupold Mark IV 4.5-14x scope. It currently weights 9 lbs 7 oz without suppressor and bipod. It averages about 1 MOA at 100 yards with me shooting 175 FGMM through it.

I am considering sending the rifle to GA Precision to have it fiberglass bedded. While there I am also considering having the stock inletted for Badger M5 bottom metal for use with AICS magazines.

The detachable magazine system would add 10 oz to the weight of the rifle and push it over 10lbs unloaded. The original intent of the rifle was to be something I could use equally well to walk around with on a hunt as well as take a 200-1000 yard precision rifle course with.

Granted I am a large individual so weight isn't as much of a factor as it might be for some, do you think the rifle is getting too heavy at 10 lbs? I realize most of you probably have dedicated precision rigs that weigh 15 lbs+, but I just wanted to get some opinions before I make the decision. At my last precision rifle class, I found that during some exercises it would have been nice to have 10 round magazines, although I still managed to keep up OK by throwing rounds in when I ran dry, even when going up against some semi-autos.

Thanks in advance.

 

[ZLBubba]

For precision rifles, mags are great. For hunting rifles, not so much. Having had it both ways, I won't have a dbm on a big game rifle anymore.

 

[turbo54]

For a HUNTING rifle, I don't like a DBM. They catch on things, rattle, dig into your back/side while slung, and obstuct me from using my "preferred" and "most comfortable" offhand position.

For me, it's not a function of weight, it's a function of practicality and comfort. Give me a hinged floorplate on a hunting rifle, every time.

 

[[email protected]]

I use a DBM on my hunting rifles so I can seat closer to the lands, and if on a really cold day to keep my mag in my jacket pocket to keep the powder consistent to where I test them. It's not nessasary, most people don't like the extra weight. I just bought a DTA SRS for a hunting rifle so clearly I don't care about carrying a few more pounds if it give me an advantage.

 

[Sendero_Man]

See my 6.5 SAUM thread here in rifle section.
I prefer the 100% reliability of the center feed bm. Never one feeding issue or failure. All the years of hunting and guiding, I have seen many feeding problems with hunting rifles, but never one with an M5 or similar bottom metal.
I went with the APA on mine, clean look and mag release is intregrated into the trigger guard.

 

[psinclair]

I will never hunt without a detachable mag system......ever.

 

[Landon]

If you're looking at putting in a badger DBM I would send it to badger. They charge $75 and put it on a machine that mills it perfectly into the stock. The $75 was cheaper than many of the smiths I checked with and the fit was perfect with no epoxy work. The turn around was one week but I think they do these in batches so it could be different for you.

Hook it up with the DBM to see if it shoots to your expectation and bed if necessary. I have two hs stocks on rifles and there was no difference in accuracy before and after bedding. If you still don't like the way it shoots or it centers your chi then get it bedded. Me...I'm centered but still shoot the same.

I like a DBM for everything but my tactical rifles are my hunting rifles too. To save weight I also went with an 18" barrel, aluminum rings and base, and a vortex 2.5-10x32.

 

[dogmessiah]

For a HUNTING rifle, I don't like a DBM. They catch on things, rattle, dig into your back/side while slung, and obstuct me from using my "preferred" and "most comfortable" offhand position.

For me, it's not a function of weight, it's a function of practicality and comfort. Give me a hinged floorplate on a hunting rifle, every time.

I am in complete agreement here. Also bed it yourself and save the cash towards ammo, or a new gun dedicated to precision courses.

 

[Landon]

For a HUNTING rifle, I don't like a DBM. They catch on things, rattle, dig into your back/side while slung, and obstuct me from using my "preferred" and "most comfortable" offhand position

I have not had any rattling from either of my Badger DBMs but have seen some that have. This can usually be mitigated by selecting the best mag you have that do not rattle. To mitigate the digging into the back I installed flush cups on the bottom and left side of the stock. Easy install with a drill and some epoxy.

If you are using this as a tactical rifle more than as a hunting rifle get the DBM. It makes sense. If it is a hunting rifle and the DBM is a nice to have than it becomes a matter of personal preference.

I like them but would not consider it mandatory on lightweight hunting rifles.

 

[Narwhal]

Thanks for all the responses so far!

Hook it up with the DBM to see if it shoots to your expectation and bed if necessary. I have two hs stocks on rifles and there was no difference in accuracy before and after bedding.

Wow, that's the first time I've heard that. Most everything I've read says that fiberglass bedding the hs precision stock gives 10-20% accuracy improvements. Good to know that's not always the case, thanks!

 

[X-fan]

Thanks for all the responses so far!



Wow, that's the first time I've heard that. Most everything I've read says that fiberglass bedding the hs precision stock gives 10-20% accuracy improvements. Good to know that's not always the case, thanks!

The problem is factory action exteriors are not round, rather they are randomly belt sanded by hand until they look good...Its like fitting a potato shaped rock to a V-block...Make sense?

 

[vtb]

Well. If you'll go Badger M5 DBM way - you will decrease weight of the empy rifle actually:

internal DBM weights 145 gramms (follower is really heavy)
Badger M5 DBM weights 94 gramms (it's really light)

3 round plastic magazine from Ruger Gunsite rifle (AICS compatible) weights 2 oz (56.7 grams) (look here - Breaking Down Ruger's New GSR Polymer Magazines - AR15.Com Archive)

so Badger M5 DBM (94 grams) + 3 rnd Ruger Gunsite AICS compatible plastic magazine (56.7 grams) = 150.7 grams.

which is 5.7 grams heavier than rifle with internal DBM.

PS
you can order McMillan stock in EDGE fill. it'll save you from 400 to 700 gramms (depending on the model you choose, A5 in Edge weights 950 grams vs. 1700 grams in snipers fill). You'll loose the adjustable cheek weld - but sometimes it's worth it.

 

[Chanonry]

DM is a real advantage. It is so much easier to unload/reload which means you tend to do it when you should. So it is safer as well as convenient. I am sure you can walk around with a 10 lbs rifle you will not feel the additional half pound

 

[Chris S]

If 10 oz is slowing you down, hit the gym. DBM is the only way to go. The suppressor weighs more than that.

 

[Landon]

Thanks for all the responses so far!



Wow, that's the first time I've heard that. Most everything I've read says that fiberglass bedding the hs precision stock gives 10-20% accuracy improvements. Good to know that's not always the case, thanks!

With out going out and shooting your particular rifle there is really no way to tell if bedding will benefit it or not. I would certainly say that if done right it cannot hurt anything. If the rifle shoots .5 moa I don't think your going to bed it and make it a .4 moa rifle. How would you ever know that?

Take the action out and take some light grit sand paper and sand the extra paint off the stock where the action contacts the bedding block. There is usually extra paint on the bottom of the action near the screw hole and on the stock. Once that is cleaned off look at the wear marks on the action and the stock. The are usually two wear lines, one on each side of the action around 5 and 7 o'clock. If it looks to be making full contact and it shoots well just shoot it and enjoy it.

With that said though I get my rifles bedded when the smith has the rifle for other work. Trigger, true the action, new barrel, whatever. When they have it apart and the shipping is already paid then I think it makes more sense. They have the rifle and it is down anyway so just add an extra two day to that.

Have badger cut the stock for you and get out and start shooting. If you have never used one you are going to love it.

 

[Narwhal]

All right, you felllows convinced me, I ordered the M5 bottom metal today. I'll send the stock to badger for inletting and also have them put a tactical bolt knob on while there (I have to use the two finger method to clear my scope currently, and have had a few short strokes under pressure in the past).

 

[5280EM!]

Does the Ruger 3 round magazine fit into any DBM with out modifications though? I was reading on the hide here and saw some posts that modification was required in order for the Ruger magazine to fit into the DBM.

 

[psinclair]

I trust the reliabilty of AI mags. It's worth the few extra ounces to have the confidence.

 

[psinclair]

 

[Landon]

All right, you felllows convinced me, I ordered the M5 bottom metal today. I'll send the stock to badger for inletting and also have them put a tactical bolt knob on while there (I have to use the two finger method to clear my scope currently, and have had a few short strokes under pressure in the past).

You made a great choice. Marty and his staff are great to work with if you have any questions.

 

[HBAM1]

Yes it is-go to the gym more often and build up those nancy boy biceps

 

[thrusty]

I'm in agreement with a lot of the posts thus far - everyone brings up good points.

For deer hunting and stalking I prefer a BDL - quieter and less weight to lug around.
For stationary hunting with potential for multiple follow-up shots (varmints) I like the DBM.
Tactical/practical matches - DBM, hands down.
Personal preference really....

 

[TheGerman]

Need to shoot 1 or 2 rounds while out hunting? Not worth it.

Otherwise if you plan on shooting more rounds and/or need to have the ability to reload quickly then its VERY worth it.

 

[Jig Stick]

Ive had a DBM on one hunting rifle, and hinged floor plate on the 2nd. My third rifle, and every hunting rifle thereafter, will be single shot. keep it simple. Very light. Less parts to break. Simple and beautiful.

 

[Win308]

I have never had the pleasure of hunting anywhere where I needed to reach out as far as my 308 5R (with a new CDi Precision BM) can reach, so I generally use either my scoped Win 70 270WSM or my Rem 721 in .270 Win with Williams peeps when I am tromping around in the woods hunting white tail, neither of which has a detatchable mag. I'll suck it up and lug the extra weight if I am ever so lucky.

 

[SPAK]

I'll play...
ive never needed to reload in the field while hunting. If I couldn't take it down in five shots eiher something very wrong happened or I had no business shooting...However, I do carry two mags for two different types of bullets. One mag for grizzlies up close and the other for match bullets for the long range shots....it's hard to have a bullet to do both, at least in .30-06. So for me and my particular style of hunting having the dbm is worth it: walking around have the bonded 200gr bullets ready to go. Get up on critters at distance, pop the mag open the bolt, switch mags and close bolt....and the rest is history, hopefully

 

[Tomspanks]

you need two guns man I was just building an m1a and realizing how heavy those get- around 10 lbs with my lightweight scope on it. then I just bought an LTR for hunting and coolness factor. You could hunt with a heavy gun and not be a pussy- nothing wrong with that. Sometimes its more fun to lighten the load though thats why I bought my LTR. Alternatively you could buy a cheap ass light ruger american, savage axis, etc...plenty good for hunting and you can do whatever silly thing it is you want to do to the range gun like strapping bricks to it etc....Speaking from experience and affection.



WTF did you do to get the LTR up to 9.5 lbs? it starts at 7.5....

 

[-=boone=-]

 

[garandman]

Thanks for all the responses so far!



Wow, that's the first time I've heard that. Most everything I've read says that fiberglass bedding the hs precision stock gives 10-20% accuracy improvements. Good to know that's not always the case, thanks!

You'll prolly get more accuracy improvement from reloading than from bedding.

 

[Narwhal]

you need two guns man I was just building an m1a and realizing how heavy those get- around 10 lbs with my lightweight scope on it. then I just bought an LTR for hunting and coolness factor. You could hunt with a heavy gun and not be a pussy- nothing wrong with that. Sometimes its more fun to lighten the load though thats why I bought my LTR. Alternatively you could buy a cheap ass light ruger american, savage axis, etc...plenty good for hunting and you can do whatever silly thing it is you want to do to the range gun like strapping bricks to it etc....Speaking from experience and affection.

WTF did you do to get the LTR up to 9.5 lbs? it starts at 7.5....

All I did was put a scope and scope mount on it (Leupold Mark 4 LR/T 4.5-14x 30mm, Badger 20 MOA base and Badger rings). That adds 2 pounds. Actually I can use my 18.5" LRB M14 as my lightweight hunting rifle if I need to. It weighs 8.4 lbs unloaded. I killed two deer last season with it using iron sights, hunting out to 200 yards with it is no problem.

 

[lonely_wolf]

Nice rifle Boone. Is that a refinished HSP stock? Or a McMillan? What model?

 

[-=boone=-]

Nice rifle Boone. Is that a refinished HSP stock? Or a McMillan? What model?

Just a H&S thats been textured and spray bombed.

 

[TheGerman]

Looks like it was slathered in mud.

That's awesome.