Is abortion ok

[Old Man with Gun]

Most Democrats agree that abortion needs limits, and most Republicans think abortion should be legal in some cases.
To me there is no difference between birth control, abstinence and termination of a non viable baby.

If a family plans on 2-3 children and end up with that timed to allow them the best chances of being able to care for and raise them, I don't see the difference between the methods.
Is masterbation mass murder?

 

[doubloon]

Most Democrats agree that abortion needs limits, and most Republicans think abortion should be legal in some cases.
To me there is no difference between birth control, abstinence and termination of a non viable baby.

If you replaced the word "most" with "some" where "Republicans" are concerned I would agree. As with a number of "political" issues the key differentiator is more acutely divided on religious boundaries rather than scientific or political boundaries. Pew Research, generally viewed as low bias and high credibility, published some numbers on this. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-r...ho-oppose-it/ft_2022-06-17_abortiongroups_01/

There is absolutely a difference between intentionally terminating a pregnancy and preventing a pregnancy.

 

[Glowie]

Yes. When I can tell someone that I am from the future and your mom wanted an abortion.

 

[doubloon]

You asked for it, you got it.

In case anyone missed it, Alabama declares itself the edge of the sword as a court rules frozen embryos are children.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

You asked for it, you got it.

In case anyone missed it, Alabama declares itself the edge of the sword as a court rules frozen embryos are children.

And as a result in vitro fertilization is being shut down state wide. Women who want to be mothers are now denied that method of creating actual children.

I'm not pro abortion, but where does this stop, is sperm life? Unfertilized eggs?

Why can't what is right between you and God leave the government out of it. What is right between you and your doctor leave the government out of it.

Why can't the far right stop forcing their views on everything and everyone?

Abortion is wrong in most situations, so is elimination of the choice to decide. What happened to let God judge and separation of Church and State?

 

[doubloon]

And as a result in vitro fertilization is being shut down state wide.

Si.

We will see if it has any impact at the polling booths. It could go either way and blind support in either direction may not yield the desired results for issues across the board. It has the potential to be an acid test for liberty across the board.

For the most part I am in favor of more power in the hands of the States rather than the Fed. But if this is the precipice for future legislation that makes it "unsafe" for the People to move freely between the States it may not be good. People in general are oblivious to how moving between sovereignties impacts their rights. We see it all the time when US citizens fuck around in other countries and find out their "rights" from home don't follow them. We already have many examples of the same thing when people travel from state to state, is more a good thing?

 

[Longshot231]

 

[supercorndogs]

And as a result in vitro fertilization is being shut down state wide. Women who want to be mothers are now denied that method of creating actual children.

I'm not pro abortion, but where does this stop, is sperm life? Unfertilized eggs?

Why can't what is right between you and God leave the government out of it. What is right between you and your doctor leave the government out of it.

Why can't the far right stop forcing their views on everything and everyone?

Abortion is wrong in most situations, so is elimination of the choice to decide. What happened to let God judge and separation of Church and State?

There is no right to decide to murder an innocent person.

Alabama passed a law to protect invitro fertilization.

The separation between church and state does not mean what you are pretending it means.

Murdering a child is not right because it's between you and your doctor. Please show me the God you worship that says murdering children is ok....

 

[Old Man with Gun]

There is no right to decide to murder an innocent person.

Alabama passed a law to protect invitro fertilization.

The separation between church and state does not mean what you are pretending it means.

Murdering a child is not right because it's between you and your doctor. Please show me the God you worship that says murdering children is ok....

The world agrees that murder is murder, abortion is about 50/50. You thinking your opinion is fact and that you know God's will is part of the problem. Separation of Church and State is exactly this, not allowing any group to force its agenda on everyone.

 

[fpgt72]

The world agrees that murder is murder, abortion is about 50/50. You thinking your opinion is fact and that you know God's will is part of the problem. Separation of Church and State is exactly this, not allowing any group to force its agenda on everyone.

I see it as having NOTHING to do with church. But the basic right and wrong. That is a little human in there. You do murder it, that is cut and dried.

In this day and age with such ease of dozens of birth control products I don't see how it happens, again and I am not popular for this it is just flat lazy. It is just that easy to take a pill, get a shot, or slip on a glove. If you make a human you make a human, and if you murder it you murder it.

I lean back to what Jordan Peterson said about the entire thing, I think I put it up in this thread, but I am too lazy to look for it, so you get it again.

 

[supercorndogs]

The world agrees that murder is murder, abortion is about 50/50. You thinking your opinion is fact and that you know God's will is part of the problem. Separation of Church and State is exactly this, not allowing any group to force its agenda on everyone.

You are just making up numbers, but even if you werent, that wouldn't make killing a baby any less murder.


No. The separation between church and state is a restriction on government. You fundmentally misunderstand it.

 

[Fig]

The world agrees that murder is murder, abortion is about 50/50. You thinking your opinion is fact and that you know God's will is part of the problem. Separation of Church and State is exactly this, not allowing any group to force its agenda on everyone.

More importantly, because you place zero or a negative value on innocent human life it puts the lie to your entire leftist program claiming to care about each person soo deeply. It's all total bullshit to hide the misanthropy of the left, and your hatred and jealousy of any person who has anything you don't have. Your equity obsession is simply a license to steal, like your stance on abortion is a license to murder.

At the end of the day, politically, abortion is nothing but a litmus test to see how massive of a totalitarian you are, and the answer shouldn't be shocking, but it still is. You value the lives of criminals because they are weak and useful to you in a way that a baby isn't. The fact that your entire economic theory is based on Marxism and zero sum capital and goods is elementary when you see everything through the lens of greed and jealousy wanting a bigger slice for yourself than simply making another pie, which somehow completely eludes leftists especially when discussing facts and figures as it relates to an economy.

It's never JUST denying a person rights and value as a human being. But, its certainly the basis for a broad swath of leftist theory.

 

[Haney]

There is no god, never was . Does that change things ? If this shit is ll about god, let the god fearing have their babies no matter what and let the ones that are not brain washed make their own choices .

 

[Fig]

Your stated godlessness is literally a requirement of your socialism/Marxism. It’s simply that you refuse to acknowledge that The State is your highest power, and your morality flows from man’s laws only. Everyone has a god. Yours is simply government and the idolatry of process and bureaucracy.

You really are a caricature of a leftist. You prove it every post. With your level of ignorance and lack of any self awareness I wouldn’t be surprised if you had a PhD and were a professor.

 

[fpgt72]

There is no god, never was . Does that change things ? If this shit is ll about god, let the god fearing have their babies no matter what and let the ones that are not brain washed make their own choices .

I think you would be fun to have a debate with, provided you are just not trying to push buttons.

Personally it has nothing to do with god, but right and wrong. I am in the camp that to murder another human is wrong, a baby in the womb is a human, so that is about where it ends.

I feel the need to say there is a difference between murder and kill. Like the movie said, we don't murder animals we kill them. Some humans are not humans but animals and need to be treated as such.

 

[supercorndogs]

There is no god, never was . Does that change things ? If this shit is ll about god, let the god fearing have their babies no matter what and let the ones that are not brain washed make their own choices .

So buy your logic. If one doesn't think what they are doing is wrong, then it's not wrong. So if some people would choose to murder or sacrifice other people it should be their right to choose to do so. If they think it's right. I bet you call pedos minor attracted people dont you...

It's funny how your clown world ideas are never fully thought out.

 

[quietmike]

There is no god, never was . Does that change things ? If this shit is ll about god, let the god fearing have their babies no matter what and let the ones that are not brain washed make their own choices .

You are a stupid bastard. In Coker v Georgia and Kennedy v Louisiana SCOTUS ruled that killing someone over a rape or incest was a violation of the 8th amendment.

Ask that filthy welfare whore who you daddy is.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

Each religion gets to decide for itself. Government needs to set rules for all citizens. America is split on abortion. Most agree abortion needs limits and exceptions. It is the far right trying to force their religion on everyone else.

 

[Doctorwho1138]

I am a Christian but this isn’t even about that. This is about what’s right and wrong. Murder is wrong. I am not sure why this is even a debate. You have scientists trying to find life on other planets when the organism consists of maybe a cell. To them that’s life and here you have a developing human that is rapidly growing with cells differentiating. That doesn’t happen if something isn’t alive. By all standards of reason that is a living thing. To end that life is murder. There is no other way to put it. It’s abhorrent and vile. It’s not necessarily about religion, it’s about being a decent moral human being that cares about life. That life is no less precious than any walking this earth. This is what it boils down to. A mother who doesn’t want to be inconvenienced so she would rather kill her child.

 

[quietmike]

Each religion gets to decide for itself. Government needs to set rules for all citizens. America is split on abortion. Most agree abortion needs limits and exceptions. It is the far right trying to force their religion on everyone else.

No, it's pathetic leftys like you who abhor personal responsibility and consequences.
That you support killing babies to avoid the consequences of being a filthy road whore only demonstrates your depravity.

 

[Terry Cross]

You're on a trip out of town.
You've been driving all day and finally pull into a nice hotel for the night.
As you are walking across the parking lot you hear a small girl say "Yes, mommy."
They come out of a sidewalk and start walking ahead of you. It is a young woman holding her daughter's hand as they walk.
The woman takes a turn with her daughter and disappears between two cars.

As you continue walking in that direction, you pass where the woman and child went.
You look to your right and between the vehicles, the woman is standing over the child with a knife and looks right at you.
She looks back down and starts stabbing the child.

Do you keep on walking to the lobby entrance?

It is after all, her child she is going to kill.
She knows, you know.
She looked right at you. She is not concerned in the least.
It is her choice as a mother right?
You don't even know them. None of your business right?

Do you keep walking?



Every day, entire medical staffs are efficiently processing pregnant women through their system to abort an innocent soul.
2 arrive but only 1 leaves.
This happens e v e r y d a y.
We know it to be a fact, but we turn that off, put it on a shelf and carry on with our own busy day.

They know we are aware they are killing thousands of babies a day. It's legal after all.
They look right at you and move forward with the process. They know you know.
It's their decision and choice of the mother right?

Your own decision on what to do in that parking lot shouldn't have a thing to do with religion.

I know I will have to face God one day and see if I am worth of his grace.
In addition to all the things I have done wrong in this life, I am worried that I will be judged just as harshly if not more so for NOT doing something when I could have.

 

[theLBC]

Each religion gets to decide for itself. Government needs to set rules for all citizens. America is split on abortion. Most agree abortion needs limits and exceptions. It is the far right trying to force their religion on everyone else.

most atheists will tell me you don't need religion to have morals.
i don't think you have to be religious to think killing babies because you're irresponsible is wrong.

 

[Longshot231]

One of my favorite charities.

PreBorn! | Saving Babies and Souls

PreBorn! is a non-profit pro-life ministry that helps Pregnancy Clinics in high-abortion areas by providing free ultrasounds, support, and resources via digital marketing to pregnant women. PreBorn! exists to save babies and souls.

preborn.com

 

[FWoo45]

I know that abortion is wrong. I also know that the type of people who get aboutions are commies, who would raise more commies. Commies aren't people. I suggest that if a commie wants to kill their unborn commie, just kick the whole package out of a helo above a lake.

ETA: This whole conversation will be moot within 10 years if my plan is implemented.

 

[Fig]

There are all sorts of "good" (i.e. logical, on a sociological and eugenicist level) arguments for murdering babies. Margaret Sanger wanted to eliminate the blacks and the poors by murdering their children, and look at how successful Planned Parenthood has become!

Margaret Sanger championed eugenics, and if anyone objected to her monsterous plans they were "anti-science". Notice any similarities with today?

You know, in this age of cancel culture and the destruction of our history somehow Sanger survives totally untouched even though she was a massive and unrepentant racist. How do people who call themselves "liberals" still put this beast in flesh on a pedistal?

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/newsroom/campaigns/ppfa-margaret-sanger-award-winners

 

[Longshot231]

There are all sorts of "good" (i.e. logical, on a sociological and eugenicist level) arguments for murdering babies. Margaret Sanger wanted to eliminate the blacks and the poors by murdering their children, and look at how successful Planned Parenthood has become!

Margaret Sanger championed eugenics, and if anyone objected to her monsterous plans they were "anti-science". Notice any similarities with today?

You know, in this age of cancel culture and the destruction of our history somehow Sanger survives totally untouched even though she was a massive and unrepentant racist. How do people who call themselves "liberals" still put this beast in flesh on a pedistal?

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/newsroom/campaigns/ppfa-margaret-sanger-award-winners

There's a lot of murderous baby killers on that list. I was also surprised by a few other names. The question is; why did they stop after 2015?

 

[Makinchips208]

You're on a trip out of town.
You've been driving all day and finally pull into a nice hotel for the night.
As you are walking across the parking lot you hear a small girl say "Yes, mommy."
They come out of a sidewalk and start walking ahead of you. It is a young woman holding her daughter's hand as they walk.
The woman takes a turn with her daughter and disappears between two cars.

As you continue walking in that direction, you pass where the woman and child went.
You look to your right and between the vehicles, the woman is standing over the child with a knife and looks right at you.
She looks back down and starts stabbing the child.

Do you keep on walking to the lobby entrance?

It is after all, her child she is going to kill.
She knows, you know.
She looked right at you. She is not concerned in the least.
It is her choice as a mother right?
You don't even know them. None of your business right?

Do you keep walking?



Every day, entire medical staffs are efficiently processing pregnant women through their system to abort an innocent soul.
2 arrive but only 1 leaves.
This happens e v e r y d a y.
We know it to be a fact, but we turn that off, put it on a shelf and carry on with our own busy day.

They know we are aware they are killing thousands of babies a day. It's legal after all.
They look right at you and move forward with the process. They know you know.
It's their decision and choice of the mother right?

Your own decision on what to do in that parking lot shouldn't have a thing to do with religion.

I know I will have to face God one day and see if I am worth of his grace.
In addition to all the things I have done wrong in this life, I am worried that I will be judged just as harshly if not more so for NOT doing something when I could have.

You are correct.
Ezekiel 9:4

 

[quietmike]

There are all sorts of "good" (i.e. logical, on a sociological and eugenicist level) arguments for murdering babies. Margaret Sanger wanted to eliminate the blacks and the poors by murdering their children, and look at how successful Planned Parenthood has become!

Margaret Sanger championed eugenics, and if anyone objected to her monsterous plans they were "anti-science". Notice any similarities with today?

You know, in this age of cancel culture and the destruction of our history somehow Sanger survives totally untouched even though she was a massive and unrepentant racist. How do people who call themselves "liberals" still put this beast in flesh on a pedistal?

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/newsroom/campaigns/ppfa-margaret-sanger-award-winners

Tell me how cancel culture is functionally different from the black codes or Jim Crow?
All of them say if you aren't just like us we don't want to see or hear you, you're excluded.

 

[quietmike]

@Haney and and @Old Man with Gun, how is killing an unborn baby to avoid the natural consequences of randomly sleeping around preferable to being a responsible adult?

 

[Tims]

 

[Maxduty]

Not a popular opinion, but your birthday is the day you were born. You aren't 9 months old when you are born. Let that sink in.

 

[Haney]

@Haney and and @Old Man with Gun, how is killing an unborn baby to avoid the natural consequences of randomly sleeping around preferable to being a responsible adult?

You always portray women as sluts , why is that ? Mom, sis, maybe dad ?

Unborn is the opposite of this . Your argument misses the part about BIRTH . I give you a J for genius . You lose again, thanks for tagging me .

 

[quietmike]

You always portray women as sluts , why is that ? Mom, sis, maybe dad ?

Unborn is the opposite of this . Your argument misses the part about BIRTH . I give you a J for genius . You lose again, thanks for tagging me .

View attachment 8390012

Because of your mom and the obviously poor way she raised you. You love abortion b/c you wish the welfare whore would have killed you vs raising you with no father around .

 

[Doctorwho1138]

What difference does the term being born even mean? You are just ignoring all the development that takes place inside the womb. Guess what? If none of that happens you can’t be born. For any of that to happen, a fetus has to develop through an entire process. In fact there is more growth and development in that stage of a person’s life than at any other stage of their development . That’s a living thing. If it weren’t, then nothing would be happening. Life doesn’t begin when we are “born”. It begins when actual development starts to take place. That process is the beginning of life. People want all sorts of justification for killing a baby and they choose to hide behind ill thought out arguments or ideas. There are so many ways a woman can choose to prevent pregnancy if they want to be a whore and sleep around. It’s not like these are new concepts or ground groundbreaking.

 

[stanley_white]

“I dislike government telling people how to live, except if they tell people how to live in a way that I agree with.”

-Humans

 

[Green461]

It shouldnt even be discussed.. its a personal private medical thing. What people do is no one eles's business. It should be the last thing people care about, like what other people like on their pizza.

 

[Doctorwho1138]

“I dislike government telling people how to live, except if they tell people how to live in a way that I agree with.”

-Humans

I think you are ignoring the baby’s right to live. But in your world, they don’t have a right to life and not worth protecting. I choose to believe all life is worth protecting especially those that can’t fight and defend themselves. Murder is immoral and shouldn’t be tolerated. It’s one of the foundations for a civilized society. Joke mentioned above just illustrates the depravity that we as humans have to deal with.

 

[stanley_white]

I think you are ignoring the baby’s right to live. But in your world, they don’t have a right to life and not worth protecting. I choose to believe all life is worth protecting especially those that can’t fight and defend themselves. Murder is immoral and shouldn’t be tolerated. It’s one of the foundations for a civilized society. Joke mentioned above just illustrates the depravity that we as humans have to deal with.

My Rorschach Test post has succeeded.

-Stan

 

[Doctorwho1138]

My Rorschach Test post has succeeded.

-Stan

I knew what you were doing but that doesn’t take away the depravity of what you posted. You are just illustrating my point very well indeed. You support murdering babies and this is your mindset. More of a Freudian slip than a Rorschach test to be honest.

 

[doubloon]

What difference does the term being born even mean?

From a legal standpoint everything.

From a religious standpoint fuck all apparently.

When does the thing in development become a "person" by U.S. legal standards that can be identified and represented in court?

People who believe "it" is a "person" at the moment of conception can't even identify the moment of conception. It's ludicrous to say rights begin at conception when nobody can even identify the event.

You can't get a SSN without a birth certificate. With very few exceptions people don't even name their "babies" until after they're born (live or dead). People often delay news of pregnancy until after a specific date because even the pregnant woman knows it might not become a baby.

The cognitive dissonance in people who "claim" it's a person at conception is thick like molasses.

Life doesn’t begin when we are “born”. It begins when actual development starts to take place.

The seed is alive. The egg is alive. It's not about what's "live", it's about what is a person.

Religious zealots can punish people in their church by kicking them out for breaking their rules ... divorce, eating meat on Friday, working on the Sabbath. None of these are punishable by law but the church can "punish" you for not following the rules.

Not everything the church believes is punishable should be punishable by law.

 

[Doctorwho1138]

From a legal standpoint everything.

From a religious standpoint fuck all apparently.

When does the thing in development become a "person" by U.S. legal standards that can be identified and represented in court?

People who believe "it" is a "person" at the moment of conception can't even identify the moment of conception. It's ludicrous to say rights begin at conception when nobody can even identify the event.

You can't get a SSN without a birth certificate. With very few exceptions people don't even name their "babies" until after they're born (live or dead). People often delay news of pregnancy until after a specific date because even the pregnant woman knows it might not become a baby.

The cognitive dissonance in people who "claim" it's a person at conception is thick like molasses.



The seed is alive. The egg is alive. It's not about what's "live", it's about what is a person.

Religious zealots can punish people in their church by kicking them out for breaking their rules ... divorce, eating meat on Friday, working on the Sabbath. None of these are punishable by law but the church can "punish" you for not following the rules.

Not everything the church believes is punishable should be punishable by law.

I don’t care what the law says. The law can say anything and has no bearing on morality. The law can make rape legal. That doesn’t make it right. Murder is wrong. You may not believe when life begins but I can assure you when life ends. Your argument has no merit.

 

[doubloon]

So buy your logic. If one doesn't think what they are doing is wrong, then it's not wrong.

How is that different from anyone else? Like fpgt below? He clearly states his view of right and wrong is a personal choice.

Every law is based on what a collective thinks.

There is not a single document of "laws" that wasn't penned/chiseled/scratched by the hand of a man.

Personally it has nothing to do with god, but right and wrong. I am in the camp that to murder another human is wrong

 

[doubloon]

I don’t care what the law says. The law can say anything and has no bearing on morality. The law can make rape legal. That doesn’t make it right. Murder is wrong. You may not believe when life begins but I can assure you when life ends. Your argument has no merit.

That's great.

I'm not arguing what's "moral" because morality is fluid and subjective. Someone here said that a better way but I forget who and the exact words.

Rape is already legal in some places as are many other "immoral" things.

Murder is the illegal killing of something legally defined as a "person".

In legal terms it has nothing to do with when "life begins" it's only about when it legally becomes a "person".

 

[W54/XM-388]

Not a popular opinion, but your birthday is the day you were born. You aren't 9 months old when you are born. Let that sink in.

Well if you grew up in Asia, you would know your age is calculated by your estimated conception date and that's also when your star charts and horoscopes start...

Hence some of the first serious work with calculating celestial stuff done by the Chinese so the rulers could know the best times to go impregnate their concubines or wives.

 

[Doctorwho1138]

That's great.

I'm not arguing what's "moral" because morality is fluid and subjective. Someone here said that a better way but I forget who and the exact words.

Rape is already legal in some places as are many other "immoral" things.

Murder is the illegal killing of something legally defined as a "person".

In legal terms it has nothing to do with when "life begins" it's only about when it legally becomes a "person".

Glad you think murder is morally subjective. Good to know. Murder is the intentional ending of a life. You are removing their existence from this earth. Keep trying. Glad you are ok with rape as long you do it in a legal environment then using your logic.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Oh hey look! A new bunch of retard assholes to put on ignore.
My list gets shorter.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Goodbye Stanley max Green and double loon.

 

[supercorndogs]

How is that different from anyone else? Like fpgt below? He clearly states his view of right and wrong is a personal choice.

Every law is based on what a collective thinks.

There is not a single document of "laws" that wasn't penned/chiseled/scratched by the hand of a man.

What's your point? That anything is ok if the perpetrator doesn't think what they are doing is wrong.

Every law is not based on collective thinks. That's load of bullshit.

 

[Doctorwho1138]

This is how much thought people put into killing their own babies. Let’s sacrifice our child because he/she won’t be born in the mom’s preferred month. Disgusting

 

[LRRPF52]

Most Democrats agree that abortion needs limits, and most Republicans think abortion should be legal in some cases.
To me there is no difference between birth control, abstinence and termination of a non viable baby.

If a family plans on 2-3 children and end up with that timed to allow them the best chances of being able to care for and raise them, I don't see the difference between the methods.
Is masterbation mass murder?

False equivalency. Masturbation does not join a sperm with an egg inside of a womb, forming a zygote, embryo, then a human fetus.

It matters not what Democrats and Republicans agree on or what you think family planning should look like.