Rifle Scopes is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

#51
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

I too could care less where a product is made.... BUT,

The issue is the company (Leupold and Stevens) itself and its "corporate idea(s)" that made me decide to NEVER buy another Leupold product again... EVER.

My opinion is a strong one and goes like this: (take it with a grain of salt)

Back in the day, an AMERICAN company made riflescopes for the consumer that were the benchmark of quality. They took pride in their company name to give the everyday shooter a great product with a fair price. Between that time and up to several years ago, they forgot that.

I thought it was shady when the Mark4 name carried over to their "tactical" line as soon as they filled a MIL contract for their Mark4 10x scope. No problem a name is a name, but as soon as they slapped that name on their regular VX3 line they also slapped up the price a little.... WHY? It was the same product as BEFORE just now it has "Mark4" in the name.

It doesn't stop there, as you all are finding out that now they outsource their components for a product that was initially marketed as "MADE IN THE USA". That's fine like I said earlier however the market price doesn't reflect the change...If anything their scopes are even more expensive than before for a product that isn't the same as before.

It still doesn't stop there. I've read first hand when Lowlight among others would argue the transition to mil/mil for their tactical line, debate among QC issues only to make the so called "Leupold worker" that was posting stop posting, and the countless BS posts that are the reason people (supposedly) from Leupold dare not show their posts on this forum any longer.

They all know and hope that their name "Leupold" will hide their skewed company values.

Just face it, Leupold is not even HALF the company they were before. Times change for better or worse, but it's just sad to see an american company that could've had it all decide to take their values and trade it for deeper pockets.

I mean fine, make money. That's what you're in business for... but don't mislead your fellow consumers just so you can sell a couple products here and there. Apparently Leupold really doesn't give a shit because they KNOW that the consumer thinks the scopes are made in the USA, carry the Mark4 name like the Military uses, it wears the Leupold name which stands for quality and heritage, and they will pay for it just because of that.

The original poster is a perfect example. He thought the scopes were "made in the USA" and finds out that they outsource parts and took off the "Made in USA" stamp.

I don't want to pay for BS.

Sorry for the long post... (end rant)
 
#52
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

Leupold is no different than any of the big three auto makers. It's common knowledge to the masses where their product is made and most don't care to investigate otherwise. Outsourcing is a way of life in business today, and when it isn't you pay top dollar for that.

Leupold isn't competing against USO or S&B. Their target customer base is the average hunter who will never really put the scope through the paces, and the majority of their product research is the cool looking advertisement in the latest issue of Field & Stream and the misconception that the scope is American made. So long as Leupold's profit margin is maintained, they will continue their current course of outsourcing and riding the fact that they're an American based company.

The fact of life is that American labor is expensive, so in order to stay competitive with manufacturers like Nikon or Bushnell, they have to outsource to the cheap labor countries. Ford, GM, and Chrysler all do the same, and with each new model year the percentage of US made parts in their vehicles gets lower. They along with Leupold are now riding the fringe where it no longer means anything to buy their product over a foreign produced version just for the sake of buying American, because in reality that is not the case.

I try to buy American whenever possible, but I will only pay the higher premium when that label is both true and worth it. You won't see a Leupold in my safe until they change their ways.
 
#53
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

U.S. content must be disclosed on automobiles and textile, wool, and fur products. There’s no law that requires most other products sold in the U.S. to be marked or labeled Made in USA or have any other disclosure about their amount of U.S. content. However, manufacturers and marketers who choose to make claims about the amount of U.S. content in their products must comply with the FTC’s Made in USA policy.

When a manufacturer or marketer makes an unqualified claim that a product is Made in USA, it should have — and rely on — a "reasonable basis" to support the claim at the time it is made. This means a manufacturer or marketer needs competent and reliable evidence to back up the claim that its product is "all or virtually all" made in the U.S.

When a manufacturer or marketer makes an unqualified claim that a product is Made in USA, it should have — and rely on — a "reasonable basis" to support the claim at the time it is made. This means a manufacturer or marketer needs competent and reliable evidence to back up the claim that its product is "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. Manufacturers and marketers should use the cost of goods sold or inventory costs of finished goods in their analysis. Such costs generally are limited to the total cost of all manufacturing materials, direct manufacturing labor, and manufacturing overhead.

A qualified Made in USA claim is appropriate for products that include U.S. content or processing but don’t meet the criteria for making an unqualified Made in USA claim.
 
#54
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

Rumors may be a problem. But it would be very easy. All the mfrs. have to do is tell the truth. The problem is not too much information, it is too little information. If any mfr. truly wanted to dispel any rumor then they would tell the whole truth. And be open about it. Unfortunately there is very few who tell the whole truth.

Leupold has been very discouraging to me over the past few years. I own several Leupold's. And they perform well for my needs. But I do not like their "cloak and dagger" method of dispensing information about their product.

They all should tell us where every part comes from. And where every part is assembled. But that IMO would make too much sense!! Or do they really want to try to hide some of the things they and other mfrs. are doing?? I believe the latter to be true. Tom.
 
#55
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HOGGHEAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They all should tell us where every part comes from. And where every part is assembled. But that IMO would make too much sense!! Or do they really want to try to hide some of the things they and other mfrs. are doing?? I believe the latter to be true. Tom.</div></div>
I believe you're exactly right Tom. So long as the misconception is working in their financial favor, they won't say a word more than they have to.

The few American companies that do outsource their production, but are fully honest about it do well because they still make a fine product by maintaining a high level of QA/QC. I believe Browning Firearms is in that category, as most of their weapons are made in Portugal, Japan, or Belgium, but their shotguns are some of the finest you can buy for under $2k.

Outsourcing while still maintaining quality is not a death sentence to American companies, but outsourcing to crap manufacturing is.
 
#56
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USACS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

So when NF tells you something its the gospal but when leupold says something its an outright in defensable lie????

By the way did you happen to see the pic of the scope I posted its pretty old and strangly enough is not marked made in USA but I assure you it is.</div></div>
Where did I say Leupold was lying? Don't claim that I made comments that I never made. Learn to read more carefully. Leupold has publicly stated that they outsource for some parts. All I did was state where those parts are coming from.
But to properly respond, do you have proof to dispute what Nightforce is saying? I have never seen anything substantive or tangible that disputes NF; just baseless unverifiable rumors online. I've read the rumors, and have yet to see anyone back up the rumors. Seems to me that Bushnell could make a great sales pitch by saying "Nightforce uses OUR tubes, we're that good". But they don't. Maybe there's a reason... What do you have for proof that NF is BSing me?
...yeah, that's what I thought.


I'm not happy about outsourcing, but if that's what Leupold wants to do, so be it. They do it, they've acknowledged it, whatever. As long as it's quality. I have an old Leupold Vari-X II that I bought 11 years ago that was made in the USA. It's a great scope.
I'm not going to make a case about where Leupolds are built- I have other good reasons for not buying Leupolds. </div></div>
Unfortunately you seem not to take your own advice! Your own argument is based on rumors as you well stated previously. And judging by your tone, it is quite clear that you have other reasons why you don't buy Leupold. I am sure certain others may feel the same.There is always the possibility that the factory is a hollywood prop and those are chinese actors in disguise! As far as your pick of the two "All American" scopes; call them?? I think they are "man" enough to tell you where the parts come from; and I am not talking about the glass either. Sorry to burst your bubble, hope you still sleep well.
 
#57
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

Companies must be aware of where they sell their products and also must abide by both state and federal law.
Just because the Feds say you can mark something as made in USA, does not mean the state says you can.

Perfect example is Maglite.
I encourage you to read through to the explanation of why they can't claim "Made in the USA"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38025260/ns/business-us_business/38562058
 
#59
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

tirofijo.... my "personal" problem with leupold is that companys like leupold make a great product in house and in usa in the begining,then get greedy and start to out source for cheaper labor just so they can line there pockets. usually the product goes to hell slowly afterwards. im sorry but im my eyes, if a company doesnt make more then 80% of the product in the usa, it shouldnt have a made in usa anywhere on the box or product.
 
#60
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USACS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

So when NF tells you something its the gospal but when leupold says something its an outright in defensable lie????

By the way did you happen to see the pic of the scope I posted its pretty old and strangly enough is not marked made in USA but I assure you it is.</div></div>
Where did I say Leupold was lying? Don't claim that I made comments that I never made. Learn to read more carefully. Leupold has publicly stated that they outsource for some parts. All I did was state where those parts are coming from.
But to properly respond, do you have proof to dispute what Nightforce is saying? I have never seen anything substantive or tangible that disputes NF; just baseless unverifiable rumors online. I've read the rumors, and have yet to see anyone back up the rumors. Seems to me that Bushnell could make a great sales pitch by saying "Nightforce uses OUR tubes, we're that good". But they don't. Maybe there's a reason... What do you have for proof that NF is BSing me?
...yeah, that's what I thought.


I'm not happy about outsourcing, but if that's what Leupold wants to do, so be it. They do it, they've acknowledged it, whatever. As long as it's quality. I have an old Leupold Vari-X II that I bought 11 years ago that was made in the USA. It's a great scope.
I'm not going to make a case about where Leupolds are built- I have other good reasons for not buying Leupolds. </div></div>

"Leupold uses foreign sourced components for some parts of Golden Ring products, primarily lenses. This is because at this time, there is no American manufacturer that can supply the quantity of high quality lenses that Leupold needs for its annual Golden Ring Optics production. Leupold’s lens systems are designed at Leupold, by American optical engineers, in its state-of -the-art optics lab and then procured from outside vendors who must meet stringent quality standards."

"Mark4's use Chinese and Japanese components, and since a majority of the products are outsourced, they no longer can stamp them as Made in USA.
Other companies are better. Nightforce scopes are primarily Japanese, but they're assembled in Utah. The exceptions are the 2.5-10x and the 3.5-15xF1 scopes, as they are all made in USA with USA components.
US Optics is all American, save the Schott glass."

Above is Leupolds statement as well as the above video.It states primarily lenses but that certainly does not mean some other pieces.But your statement clearly contridicts Leupolds statement so if you would please provide the documentation that proves there are Chinese parts in MK4 scopes it will clear this up.

As some others have stated I don't much care where its made. I realy would just like to know the whole truth.Theres alot of internet dogpiling on Leupold some deserved some not.They could easily put an end to it but seem ok with the BS.As I've also said I am no Leupold cheerleader they pissed me off for other reasons long ago.
 
#61
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pupdawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I too could care less where a product is made.... BUT,

The issue is the company (Leupold and Stevens) itself and its "corporate idea(s)" that made me decide to NEVER buy another Leupold product again... EVER. </div></div>

Likewise.

I got a part time job to save for my MK4 a few years ago. It worked fine and I was happy until I caught wind of the Leupold marketing farce.

Around the same time I came to understand what quality meant BEYOND a mere object. To me, my Leupold symbolized the atrophy of american business ethics in the last 40 years. And that is not something you can send back on a lifetime warranty to get fixed.
 
#62
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If people were so rabid about US content on everything else then this thread would not exist at all... no computers to type on, no cars to drive, etc.</div></div>

Apple computers is not plastering "An American Company" on everything trying to imply my MacBook Pro was made in Cupertino, CA. Clearly Apple is an American Company, however I am well aware of where the product comes from, when I ordered my iPhone 4 it shipped directly from China, There was no subterfuge involved, they tell you straight up front.

The point being -- a once proudly made in america scope that was the gold standard, has been quietly removed from the Made in America ranks while at the same time is being seen with increased issues out of the box not to mention for an increased price.

The American Flag, the American Heritage and the American Optical Authority is meant to imply an American Made product inside the box, yet the actual stamp is in fact missing as well it has gone missing from their website completely. (aside from the video)

Contrast that with Nightforce, who was never shy about saying the scope was made in Japan, proudly marked on the tube. Well when their product started rating the "made in america" label they added it to their website, they stamped it on top of their scopes, they marked it anywhere they could. Different corporate philosophies -- one of moving the product on shore the other quietly moving it off shore.

The fact it contains components from other countries is fine, but you can no longer eat off the reputation from when it actually made here. Don't imply, own up to your decision, especially when the quality is clearly is no longer there as it once was.

For many die hard fans it can be like finding out their best girl is actually post op.

By the way, DMG, my understanding is, the chinese component is the illumination, but glass and illumination alone should not cause one to lose the Made in USA label, potentially an off shore erector assembly might, but that is guess because the lenses are prebuilt into the unit.
 
#63
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

NF IS A BETTER SCOPE! Now that is out of the way; I have posted evidence per request, and yet that isn't good enough. No other US scope manufacturer has been bashed to the extent of Leupold on here. The reason escapes me. Leupold once was a great company, now not so much. Regardless they aren't any less American made than any other brand mentioned here. That's my point! Not QC,not innovation, not anything else.Try to leave one's personal feelings out of this and post some facts please not internet heresey!
 
#64
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NF IS A BETTER SCOPE! Now that is out of the way; <span style="font-weight: bold">I have posted evidence per request, and yet that isn't good enough.</span> No other US scope manufacturer has been bashed to the extent of Leupold on here. The reason escapes me. Leupold once was a great company, now not so much. Regardless they aren't any less American made than any other brand mentioned here. That's my point! Not QC,not innovation, not anything else.Try to leave one's personal feelings out of this and post some facts please not internet heresey!</div></div>

Ah Turk, did you miss the guy that came in behind you where the "Made in USA" was missing from the newer box ?

He posted it evidence it was gone, which backs up what we have been saying. We all understand they were Made in the USA, however they have since removed it.

What part of that don't you get... being there yesterday and not there today is the point. We know it WAS THERE, it is NO LONGER there.
 
#66
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

Turk here is your Box:

219qqzr.jpg


Clearly marked

Here is the box from RADCustom circa 2007...
P1030424.jpg


That is the point... yet on top of that very same box:
P1030433.jpg



See the implication -- that is what WE are talking about. Call it a bash, I think it is more about Truth in Advertising.
 
#67
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am sorry I must have missed the part that was stamped made in China! Does your Manners or Mcmillan stock say made in USA on it?</div></div>

Yes, I have a Stock from Tom, unfortunately I just shipped it off, Had HUGE Made in USA Sticker on it...

I do have it... It was a 6" Color Sticker... if i managed to snap a picture I will post it
 
#69
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And lets say one day he decides not to put that sticker on; then what? Manners stocks made in China?</div></div>

Please you make no sense, these guys are "actually" making the stocks, they show you them doing it from start to finish.

If suddenly we started seeing cracks happen, chips, things that are not consistent in Tom's quality you bet I would question him. But that is easily vetted, I would ask George. But say the stocks felt more plastic... I would want to know he changed.
 
#70
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

It's funny how these debates gain a life of their own.
There are several opinions here as to what constitutes "made in USA" I don't think companies like Leupold can ever win these debates. They get it from all sides they are dammed if they do and dammed if they don't label their products "made in USA". It sucks but it is cheaper for a company exit the BS and avoid the finger pointing over percentages of what is US made verses foreign parts (each of Leupold's lines differ).
Leupold as a firearm industry manufacturer has a large target on them from the haters who look for any and all legal means to attack a company with the desire to make them go away. They made the choice to avoid a protracted legal battle that is common in their industry these days and openly disclose that they use foreign parts in their manufacturing process.
Next time you're in Oregon stop in and see for yourself just what's going on at Leupold; I'm sure it would be enlightening. Leupold using Americans assemble, machine and manufacture their scopes right here in Beaverton using parts they make, design and purchase. If what they do is not "made in USA" then not much can be made in the US but food.
Leupold makes quality products and they stand behind them.
 
#72
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Intoodeep</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
There are several opinions here as to what constitutes "made in USA" I don't think companies like Leupold can ever win these debates. They get it from all sides they are dammed if they do and dammed if they don't label their products "made in USA". </div></div>
I don't think the "Made in USA" "issue" would be an "issue" if they continued to make a quality product. The fact is, their product SUCKS. I purchased my first brand new Leupold a couple of years ago. it was a Mark 4 4.5-14. It was defective straight from the factory. i sent it back and they fixed it, and i sold it as soon as it came back. I bought a USED Nightforce, and have never had a problem with it since. I believe the real issue is QUALITY...not where the product is made. FYI, I will never purchase and or recommend a Leupold ever again.
 
#73
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

Hater...

They made their own brand of hate, the calls regarding their product is based on the growing issues in quality or lack there of.

We are better educated consumers, and we know what we are looking at to the point when we see "issues" we can trace it back. We don't do 4" box tests, we do 40" box tests and the scopes are failing, the canted reticles, these things are happening and happening more often. This is what lead to question what is going on... we won't get into the fact they behind the curve in innovation.

Having been top dog does put a target on your back, but only because people were expecting the very best. Right now these scopes are only equal to any of the sub $800 scopes and you have some, like the Super Sniper who is surpassing Leupold quality which -- should not have happened to the top player.

In this day and age, I don't think companies make the decision to pull the made in usa label off because they want to. That makes absolutely no sense when others are embracing the same thing.

I appreciate Leupold's history and heritage, but don't piss on my leg and tell me it is raining, or that the reticle is straight when it is clearly canted.
 
#74
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We are better educated consumers, and we know what we are looking at to the point when we see "issues" we can trace it back. We don't do 4" box tests, we do 40" box tests and the scopes are failing, the canted reticles, these things are happening and happening more often. This is what lead to question what is going on... we won't get into the fact they behind the curve in innovation.
</div></div>
I couldn't agree more. The Leupold I spoke of went on top of my first long Range rifle. It had a "BAD" spot in the elevation adjustment. It would dial fine and then get to the "spot" and the adjustments would not track correctly. Talk about frustrating for a newbie. Then I put this same scope on a 20MOA base and the problem "moved" that's when I sent it in. I listed it for sale before I even got it back.
 
#75
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Mike

is it marked Made in USA on it /

Thanks, </div></div>

4967883275_a8f9c3fe8a_z.jpg


4967863217_6f197cf884_z.jpg


It does not say "Made in USA" but if it's made in China or Japan it has to be marked accordingly. See this photo of a Vortex Viper to compare:

4968498280_2c313b3e2e_z.jpg


"As far as we have been told", the Mark IV are made in the US. We have also been told by other scope manufacturers that if they are made somewhere else they have to be marked accordingly, meaning a sticker, engraving, etc. The second focal plane Nightforces are marked made in Japan as well.

I could be wrong, but as far as "I have been told," this is what I know.

Thanks,

Mike @ CST
 
#76
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

Thanks Mike,

I wonder if that has to do with the percentages and the bodies specifically. I have no doubt the Leupold bodies are made in house. But if you take the glass, the erector and illumination and out source it does it remove the USA label but also prevent them from needing the origin label ?

Doesn't really help other to say the markings are no longer there, the origins are still somewhat of a mystery.

Vortex makes no bones about the fact they spec the entire scope out to foreign manufacturing, hence that could account for the label. But when you are talking percentage of product -- this gray area could be the reason why we see nothing.
 
#77
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 762frmafr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think the "Made in USA" "issue" would be an "issue" if they continued to make a quality product. The fact is, their product SUCKS. I purchased my first brand new Leupold a couple of years ago. it was a Mark 4 4.5-14. It was defective straight from the factory. i sent it back and they fixed it, and i sold it as soon as it came back. I bought a USED Nightforce, and have never had a problem with it since. I believe the real issue is QUALITY...not where the product is made. FYI, I will never purchase and or recommend a Leupold ever again. </div></div>
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but if everyone took on the same attitude toward a product that you just exhibited,
there would be quite a few companies out of business.
There have been numerous instances of the exact same thing that you just described occurring in USO products over the years.
Yet there aren't people coming out of the wood work to crucify them.
They are still widely regarded as a quality high end optic.
USO's customer service is top notch and they are always quick to rectify the problem.

Leopold's customer service just as good and I'm willing to wager that their numbers are quite disproportionate to USO.
(Leopold simply has more product out there.)

Has Leupold dropped the made in the USA label?
(Yes)
Has Leupold's quality and innovation lagged behind in recent years?
(Yes)
Does Leupold regard the "Tactical" market as a niche and make it a secondary concern?
(Yes)
Does Leupold still hold a significant part of the tactical market?
(Yes)

Last few matches that I can remember, about 30 - 40% of the participants were using Leupold scopes on their rifles.
Of the spotting scope that you see used, the ratio goes up to 75 - 80%.

I'm disappointed that Leupold has not regarded us as more of a priority, but blanket statements like the one made above is not fair considering the fact that you never even used the product.
 
#78
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr. Phil</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> blanket statements like the one made above is not fair considering the fact that you never even used the product.
</div></div>
who said i never used the product? i used it extensively that is how i knew it was defective. maybe companies like Leupold should be out of business instead of putting out a Crap product.
 
#80
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

The reliability, quality and prestiege that goes with a quality scopemakers name is everything, look at Schmidt and Bender, top of the line, no argument and no comprimise, not American, but top notch, Hensoldt, same deal not American but top of the line, Leupold, top of the line........ at one time, seems to me they have cut some corners to save money, and there quality and reliability went to shit. AT ONE TIME they were at the top of the food chain, but at the present Im not sure I wouldn't just as soon have a bushnell or a supersniper, by no means am I a fan of either of these two companies but the last couple of leupys that I have owned didn't track any better than a Tasco, now having said that, I have an older mk4 that tracks as well as my nf did, the problem is, the newer Leupolds are problematic as hell, look at all the problems that other hide members have had with them, and that's not counting the thousands who aren't on the hide!!!! even though they are made in japan nf seems to be very consistant, and very well built, reguardless of where they are manufactured, something Leupold seems to be having problems with. I would love to buy a well made reliable AMERICAN made scope, but would not knock a quality product because of orgin,
 
#82
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 762frmafr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it was bad out of the box. that is correct. but since i was a newbie i did not know to do a box test. i used the scope as stated in my second post above and found a "bad spot" in the elevation. then i pulled it off and sent it back. </div></div>

762 I agree with some of what you have said.But lets discuss out of the box issues and "American" made scopes.
- Owned three of an American made scope two had to go back right out of the box because it looked like someone sneezed on the lenses. The third went back because it did not track the values it was marked in.

- Along comes another "American" made scope right out of the box the windage knob did not line up properly and because of the design had to go back to the "factory".When it was there I decided I wanted the other reticle option so they just sent me another scope.When it arrived I looked through it and there was a distortion or imperfection in the glass that was very noticeable.Back it went.

Both companies handled things in a timely professional manner.Point is Leupold is the only scope company that suffers the rath of SH. I would guess Leupold makes more scopes in a day then either of these companies do in a year.There is also no doubt that people like Frank see a huge amount of failures and that has to effect an opinion as it should.I only use a couple of fixed MK4s I think the variables are ...well never mind.

I have been told the same thing as Mike at CS tactical was ,and by people that have been at Leupold for a long time. MK4s are USA designed,manufactured and assembled sans the Glass.I can not prove or dissprove this but as I've stated watch the video above thats a hell of alot of overhead to be a dog and pony show.
 
#83
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Mike,

I wonder if that has to do with the percentages and the bodies specifically. I have no doubt the Leupold bodies are made in house. But if you take the glass, the erector and illumination and out source it does it remove the USA label but also prevent them from needing the origin label ?

Doesn't really help other to say the markings are no longer there, the origins are still somewhat of a mystery.

Vortex makes no bones about the fact they spec the entire scope out to foreign manufacturing, hence that could account for the label. But when you are talking percentage of product -- this gray area could be the reason why we see nothing. </div></div>


You are correct, if the body is made in the USA this tends to account for more than enough in parts. It has to be a certain % of USA made part and labor to make it a USA made item. I can see this being a gray area like you said. (This is how the USMC was able to get the S&B for their Sniper Scope.)

I believe they told me they get the glass from Japan where a lot of other scope makers get theirs glass from, the illumination parts I was told were out-sourced but not 100% sure on this. Not sure where they get their reticles from. Leupold has a very impressive CNC setup they have multiple CNC going all the time. They make the bodies and the erector systems for the MARK 4’s on their CNC's.

Also due to the fact Leupold sells the MARK 4 to the US Military they have to be inspected to make sure they are holding to the Made in the USA requirements.

I will also say, I have been really happy with the NEW Leupold M5, the glass is good, the turrets are very positive, and the FFP MLR is nice and clean.


Mike @ CST
 
#84
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

All you got to do is just walk-up to the front doors and ask . Last time I checked Leu. gave daily public tours of the mechanical building that are use in manufacture and production. They walk you past all the workers and machining and ( answer all your Questions ) . The last tour I took was only 2-3 years ago but the buildings housed maybe 40+ CNC and other machines along with 3-shifts going 7-days a week of workers & they even have one crew that all they do is cutting tool resurfacing and sharpening to keep it all going. While walking threw the buildings I saw Racks of scope-bodies in the raw along with Ring and Bases that were in the Raw. There were even several Large Metal-parts agitating-bins also running strong removing tool cutting marks off the fresh cut products and then saw assembly of scopes with Turret & Lens & Retical placement.
So I know some of there product is made In-House.
Even though Leu. sells and distributes more rifle optics world wide than any other manufacture. What I think What is happening here is just another Web-Shitslinging products bash that keep the internet full of the same Old Regurgitation that flow Round & Round & Round, puking-out the same old problem they been stating on the web. for all the other internet crybaby's to read, cry and then re-post about it & keeping this cycle on it's never ending journey.
If you don't like Leu. then don't buy Leu. . The free market will fix it self and then Leu. will either change or go out of business.
.
 
#85
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

If it's internet myth and legend how do we have the ability to point to examples of "before" and "after" ...

I understand they make more scopes than anyone, period, more on the street equals more failures to contend with -- or should it ?

But when we have quantifiable data, like the boxes with "made in usa" versus boxes of the same product without... that has to count for something ?

As well it's pretty easy to read about corporate changes within the structure of the company. Who they are bringing into run things, versus the family owned business it once was. Is this internet myth as well, regurgitating tired old arguments or is it a change in their corporate culture that might be responsible for some of the myths we are seeing ?

I get it, people don't like the idea of it... but again, these things were not pulled out of space and there is solid evidence to demonstrate the point. I mean when you have some well respected people bring these into question, a smart shopper might stand up and take note, ask themselves, "How come that long time fan is no longer using Leupold products" ?

Myths and Legend not withstanding, A simple statement from the company release by them would probably put this all to bed. Story ends when the horse addresses it publicly once and for all.
 
#86
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Intoodeep</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Leupold makes quality products and they stand behind them. </div></div>

I'll take issue with that.

A quality product does not require more than one trip to render 100% when it's out of the box defective. 3 trips is a joke, when still not corrected! That's a money driven, product quality issue, from the get go.

I had 2 so called Mk4's that were returned to Leupold 3 times each for the same issue. Either the target or reticle was in focus but never both. We won't even get into the tracking issues they both had as well.

I'd say when I was shooting what I call normal, I'd send more down range in one weekend than Leupold's Target customer did in a year or maybe a life time. I'd also guess they knew the rd count failure rate, and customer quality ability and was banking one against the other. Now it's time to pay the piper and some are blind to that fact.
 
#87
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

I checked out the new Leupolds at Shot and have to say they look liek someone spent some time making improvements. I am waiting for the street price to come down and see how they perform for others before I buy but they do hold some promise.

All scope companies out source parts. As long as quality is there it is a way of lfie we will have to put up with until American Manufactures produce the needed parts here. We have out source America.

Now I have heard the glass in the new MK4 M3s 3.5-10 and fixed ten are better than before anyone confirm this?
 
#88
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

Story ends when the horse addresses it publicly once and for all. [/quote said:
I saw a chinese horse in diguise in the video on about the 14.25 mark; but I wouldn't trust him either! In all fairness lets get all the horses from all of the companies to publicly state where each and every part is made. As far as well respected people; other then you can you please name a few? BTW Leupold is not the only company that has dropped the "made in USA" markings. Brand X and Y don't seem to advertise it on their sites any longer. Only NF.They feel they need to; good for them!
Click to expand...
 
#89
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

Horses mouth at 14:25, or the contradiction from the other end of the same horse as found on the site and written here:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Leupold uses foreign sourced components for some parts of Golden Ring products, primarily lenses. This is because at this time, there is no American manufacturer that can supply the quantity of high quality lenses that Leupold needs for its annual Golden Ring Optics production. Leupold’s lens systems are designed at Leupold, by American optical engineers, in its state-of -the-art optics lab and then procured from outside vendors who must meet stringent quality standards.

Incoming parts are carefully inspected in our testing facility before they are accepted into the assembly process. Incidentally, all major optics producers worldwide acquire some or all of their glass from the same sources as Leupold. Some of these sources are located domestically, some are European, <span style="font-weight: bold">and some are Asian.</span> Leupold has acquired its lenses this way for over 50 years.</div></div>

Or does the fact the words themselves have gone missing constitute from the <span style="text-decoration: underline">horses actions ?</span> As actions do speak louder than the words at 14:25.

I'm not going to name, names, it is not my place, but I will tell you there are many -- the original Leupold bitch fest was proof of that enough, look at the man that started it. I would say respect rolls his way. I can name others as well but will not, my friendship is not worth the shout out.

I don't know who Brand X or Y are... if you want to call them out you can, but I suspect you'll get the same answer from them, as we get from Leupold. Plenty of contradiction. You probably wouldn't accept it from them, but you'll accept it from Leupold.
 
#90
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

Perhaps you missed the Golden Ring Part? As far as I am concerned they all out source, w/ the exception of Zeiss/Hensoldt! They are in a different class all together!
 
#91
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Perhaps you missed the Golden Ring Part?</div></div>

Not at all... perhaps you missed where everywhere else, the entire site sans the video is void of the reference -- not to mention the box. You still fail to admit removal of the label should tell you something.

Besides isn't the Gold Ring considered their top of the line ?
 
#93
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Last time I checked Mark4's were their flagship! And I am fairly certain you know brand X and Y very well!</div></div>

If you say so, show me a quote from the site, that the Mark 4 is an American Made Product -- A company touting it's "American Heritage" with a special sticker on the box, or that it's "America Optics Authority" surely has a single line on the Tactical Site that says, "made in usa" to describe the Mark 4.

Seems like a strange omission for a flagship optics from an American Company.
 
#94
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

Maybe strange to you but not so strange for others that don't care for the grief! I need to ask you a question if you would permit; what are my chances of getting that Mil/Mil scope?
laugh.gif
 
#96
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I saw a chinese horse in diguise in the video on about the 14.25 mark; but I wouldn't trust him either! In all fairness lets get all the horses from all of the companies to publicly state where each and every part is made. As far as well respected people; other then you can you please name a few? BTW Leupold is not the only company that has dropped the "made in USA" markings. Brand X and Y don't seem to advertise it on their sites any longer. Only NF.They feel they need to; good for them! </div></div>




It doesn't matter where the parts are made. If it USED to be "made in USA" and now isn't then fine... but what happened to the companys ethics and morals? Where is that All AMERICAN company now? How can you base your market on that idea then later on down the road just cease to instill it in your end product?

The difference with NF is that they NEVER established into their consumers that they were selling a "made in the USA" product. However on the NF scopes that ARE or "qualify" for that "made in USA" marking they make it clear what you are buying.

Besides, I don't buy NF because it's made in the USA or not. I want to buy it over Leupold because I strongly feel that there is NO bullshit with the NF company, no crazy sales pitches or gimmicks or fancy words. No withholding product information, No excuses. You invest in a product that came from a company that is passionate about its product, quality and service and a company that seems like it wants to grow WITH the shooting community.

Leupold on the other hand just wants you to buy their riflescopes because it's a Leupold and it's labeled "Mark 4". Whatever that's worth nowadays.
Click to expand...
 
#97
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

Nightforce says on there website which scopes are american made and which ones are not. The glass come from Japan. My cousin works in the high end optics world for spy sats and imaging. There is only 5 places in the entire world that makes and produces this types of glass. It is sort of the same for the scope market.
 
#99
Re: is it true leuplod scopes are not made in u.s.?

Always a confusing topic. After reading multiple "where are Leupold's made" threads, this is what I have gathered...


1. Up to this point, Leupold only admits to the GLASS being made outside the USA.

2. The reason (excuse?) for not marking them "Made in the USA" anymore was the issue about a case in California where they have a much more strict standard for what constitutes "Made in the USA" as compared to Federal law. I believe this came from a post someone made here on this forum after having contacted Leupold to get insight into the matter.



From Leatherman's site:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">May, 2005, Portland, OR—A Los Angeles Superior Court judge has found that between April of 1997 and April of 2002, Leatherman Tool Group, Inc. violated a unique California law concerning the ability of companies to represent their products as “Made in USA.” The court in Colgan v. Leatherman Tool Group held that under California law Leatherman engaged in false or misleading advertising by representing that certain of its tools were “Made in USA.” As a result, the court directed the company to pay approximately $13 million in restitution. Leatherman is disappointed with the ruling and intends to file an appeal.

A recent Associated Press story about the ruling gave the distinct impression that Leatherman brand multi-tools are, for the most part, made outside the United States. This is false.

The unique California law at issue prohibits companies from selling in California any product represented as “Made in USA” if “any article, unit, or part” of the product was “substantially made, manufactured, or produced outside of the United States.” As interpreted by one California judge, the law prohibits a “Made in USA” representation of a product even if the only foreign content in the product is a single screw. </div></div>


***


Coincidentally, Leupold recently released this video of their manufacturing facility. Likely due to the internet buzz about Leupold being foreign made.


Unfortunately, this video doesn't prove anything either way. It does show them making a number of things, assembling them here, but it doesn't show all components being made. For all we know, more of the internals could be made in other countries.


The matter about California could be a cover. Perhaps Leupold doesn't meet the Federal standards for "Made in the USA", and is hiding behind the California excuse? In other words, they fail the Federal standard, but because of California - they get an "out" by only having to admit the lenses are foreign. Therefore, clinging to their "made in the USA" reputation and claims.

Or, perhaps the new thinkers (MBA types and lawyers) over at Leupold are preemptively protecting Leupold from such law suits, in California or elsewhere should they arise. Removing "Made in the USA" is a simple thing to do that completely eliminates any possible liability the company would have in that regard. That is what is speculated to be their reasoning, based on the assumption that is why they did it.


Impossible to tell based on what we have up to this point.


There are a lot of people on this forum that are making the claim that Leupold is sourcing more than just the lenses from foreign countries. Yet, up to this point - no one can PROVE anything about that. Some of these claims are coming from very respectably people, but as respectable as they are, proof is what matters.

The prevailing reasoning behind such a claim is based on the Federal standard for "Made in the USA" and it is then asserted that this is the reason Leupold dropped the label. This isn't proof of any kind. Only suspicion.

Unless Leupold admits to more than their glass being foreign, or some foreign supplier discloses they make parts for Leupold - then it's all speculation at this point.

 
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