Is my custom 457 Barrel a dud?

[BattleFieldDuke]

I sent my custom 457 barrel to Whidden GunWorks for ammo testing and just got the results back, to say I am not very impressed is an understatement. The ammo being used is Eley Tenex.
The testing distance is set at 50 meters and the group size is in mm, my calculation shows at 50m, this is not even an MOA barrel.
I am a newbie at this, will appreciate if anyone can help me make some sense out of this results.

 

[BattleFieldDuke]

My calculation is that the best group size is 21.3mm at 50m, equivalent to 0.77 inch at 50 yard, so this is an 1.5 MOA barrel?

 

[littlepod]

Yes that's horrible. I'd expect a good barrel on something like a Vudoo/RimX to be 12-13mm. I don't think CZ actions have any particular issue unless it was horribly headspaced or something.

 

[BattleFieldDuke]

Thanks for confirming this. I need to talk to the shop and hopefully can return it

 

[Fig]

Honestly, I've spend 10k trying to build something that shoots as well as a Vudoo or Rimex. It's totally hit or miss just like buying a CZ off the rack. Some of them are hammers, and some suck, with the median ones shooting very well for the money. Whidden is a great shop, but I seriously doubt that the groups are out of tolerance, which is generally at the suck level no matter who you go to. I built the snazziest Summit ever, and it shoots about the same, and Volquartsen said it was within spec... Most won't make claims they can't achieve.


There is too much going on with a .22. Including the ammo. I have guns that shoot Ten X like crap, and shoot good with bullshit CCI. Try it with SK Match. I never found it to be great till I bought the Vudoo, but it was dead on from the first shot, and it's never eaten anything else.

There is a ton of Voo Doo magic and luck in .22s. It is almost impossible to get the level of precision required to overcome the shitty ammo with a production action/barrel. I've seen production guns that shot as well as a Vudoo or RimEx, but never owned one.

Imo, you're going to spend more money chasing it than bucking up. I know I have. I wish I would not have chased it and just bought it from the outset.

 

[DairyDictator]

Have you tried any other brand of ammunition like SK/Lapua? Plenty of guns out there that hammer with Lapua but look like a shotgun with Eley.

 

[BattleFieldDuke]

Honestly, I've spend 10k trying to build something that shoots as well as a Vudoo or Rimex. It's totally hit or miss just like buying a CZ off the rack. Some of them are hammers, and some suck, with the median ones shooting very well for the money. Whidden is a great shop, but I seriously doubt that the groups are out of tolerance, which is generally at the suck level no matter who you go to. I built the snazziest Summit ever, and it shoots about the same, and Volquartsen said it was within spec... Most won't make claims they can't achieve.


There is too much going on with a .22. Including the ammo. I have guns that shoot Ten X like crap, and shoot good with bullshit CCI. Try it with SK Match. I never found it to be great till I bought the Vudoo, but it was dead on from the first shot, and it's never eaten anything else.

There is a ton of Voo Doo magic and luck in .22s. It is almost impossible to get the level of precision required to overcome the shitty ammo with a production action/barrel. I've seen production guns that shot as well as a Vudoo or RimEx, but never owned one.

Imo, you're going to spend more money chasing it than bucking up. I know I have. I wish I would not have chased it and just bought it from the outset.

Thanks for the advice, cry once, should have known better

 

[BattleFieldDuke]

Have you tried any other brand of ammunition like SK/Lapua? Plenty of guns out there that hammer with Lapua but look like a shotgun with Eley.

I requested Eley ammunition testing as I was told that’s what they had in stock and ready for purchase. Lapua is reserved for testing only, so even you know it shoots well, you can’t purchase any from them

 

[DairyDictator]

I requested Eley ammunition testing as I was told that’s what they had in stock and ready for purchase. Lapua is reserved for testing only, so even you know it shoots well, you can’t purchase any from them

To some extent, there's a reason Eley is available and Lapua isn't.

Just because your barrel didn't like eley doesn't mean it's a dud just yet. I've seen plenty of RimX and Vudoos shoot like crap with Eley (my vudoo included) and shoot great with other ammo.

The chamber specs, barrel specs, and headspace all can have a big effect on which ammo type a barrel usually likes. You can get pretty far into the weeds with it. Some have written books on it.

 

[littlepod]

I agree that a barrel might not like one lot of ammo vs another. But to go through lot testing with 10 lots of Eley Tenex and have it shoot in the 20mms is just crazy.

Especially when you're talking about a custom barrel. If this was the factory sporter barrel on the CZ, sure. If this was the springfield 2020 rifle, sure.

When you say custom barrel, how custom is it? Like a $400 blank, and then a $300 chambering job? Or a $350 prefit from random barrel blank and random reamer?

Is Whidden measuring it edge to edge or c2c?

 

[DairyDictator]

I agree that a barrel might not like one lot of ammo vs another. But to go through lot testing with 10 lots of Eley Tenex and have it shoot in the 20mms is just crazy.

Especially when you're talking about a custom barrel. If this was the factory sporter barrel on the CZ, sure. If this was the springfield 2020 rifle, sure.

When you say custom barrel, how custom is it? Like a $400 blank, and then a $300 chambering job? Or a $350 prefit from random barrel blank and random reamer?

Is Whidden measuring it edge to edge or c2c?

Maybe I'm off base but I don't think that's out of the question if the rifle is headspaced poorly for eley and the reamer was meant for a different bullet shape.

 

[1911Shootist]

None of my guns (Anschutz, Bergara, Vudoo/Shilen, CZ’s and DPG CZ), have liked Tenex very much. I’ve had way better luck with Lapua and SK.

 

[Williwaw]

The testing distance is set at 50 meters and the group size is in mm

CTC or outside. Sorry if dumb question.

 

[tekmann2377]

I wouldn't give up until you try some other brands IE Lapua/SK or RWS. You just can't predict what the barrel will like. You may just end up lot testing whatever Lapua you can get on your own.

I was recently testing a wide variety of ammo in my T1x. Wolf Match, Eley Club, Target, Team, Target, SK Standard+, Pistol Match, Rifle Match, and Lapua Polar Biathlon. Overall SK/Lapua outperformed Eley for me, although Team and Tenex did almost as well but were less consistent. The 10 shot groups out of my stock 20" T1x varied from 0.9 MOA to 1.5 MOA, with the best performing being mainly around the ~1 MOA mark. There were still occasional fliers even with this.

I would be disappointed too, but give the barrel a fair shake with at least some SK Rifle match before giving up on it. There is so much statistical noise and variation with 22 LR it is maddening.

In terms of lot testing, a friend of mine did the Lapua testing in AZ. He settled on Center X for his Vuduu. It seems to shoot at least a little better than my T1x... But not as much as you would think

 

[BattleFieldDuke]

To some extent, there's a reason Eley is available and Lapua isn't.

Just because your barrel didn't like eley doesn't mean it's a dud just yet. I've seen plenty of RimX and Vudoos shoot like crap with Eley (my vudoo included) and shoot great with other ammo.

The chamber specs, barrel specs, and headspace all can have a big effect on which ammo type a barrel usually likes. You can get pretty far into the weeds with it. Some have written books on it.

I only sent my barrel in and Whidden gun works took care of the rest. I just checked the test report, headspace was set at 0.045

 

[BattleFieldDuke]

CTC or outside. Sorry if dumb question.

It’s side to side I believe, but even that, it’s still barely a moa barrel at 50 yard

 

[ballisticdaddy]

It’s side to side I believe, but even that, it’s still barely a moa barrel at 50 yard

Who is the barrel manufacturer and what makes it custom?

 

[flatland1]

You sent just a barrel in to Whidden? So you're saying that they put it in their action? Clarify that for us...

I've always set headspace on my custom barrels at .043", whether I'm shooting one that I chambered with an EPS, Win 52D Match, or Nevius reamer, whether it's a Vudoo, Rem 40XB, CZ 457, or a Browning repo M52C.

 

[BattleFieldDuke]

Who is the barrel manufacturer and what makes it custom?

Bartlein 0.9 diameter straight 24 inch. It’s a made to order prefit

 

[BattleFieldDuke]

You sent just a barrel in to Whidden? So you're saying that they put it in their action? Clarify that for us...

I've always set headspace on my custom barrels at .043", whether I'm shooting one that I chambered with an EPS, Win 52D Match, or Nevius reamer, whether it's a Vudoo, Rem 40XB, CZ 457, or a Browning repo M52C.

Yes, that’s exactly what happened. Barrel only and they set it up on their Gemini test rig I think

 

[DP2]

I believe you cannot determine the accuracy of the barrel until it is in your chassis with your action and you have tested various ammo. Some setups are more picky than others. Not saying yours would be, in fact it may not be picky at all.

 

[flatland1]

As far as Eley vs SK/Lapua goes, I've had several lots of Eley Match that shot quite a bit better at 200yds than any of the best lots of Lapua Center-X that I've got, out of Vudoo repeaters. I read somewhere about Vudoo sending out orange magazine followers that were supposed to work better when it comes to getting the flatnose Eley ammo to feed reliably, but haven't ever tried it.

And I've got a couple of CMP Win 52Ds that shoot Eley Match better than any of the various lots & grades of SK/Lapua ammo, at least at 50-100yds.

 

[Bgriff008]

I avoid Eley like the plague.