Rifle Scopes Is the glass in SWFA 5-20HD tier 1

[pitdog85]

Its almost impossible to find a bad word about swfa scopes, the only gripe ive heard people say is no zero stop and they don't like the retical. I already use a fixed swfa 12x and cannot fault it one bit tracks perfectly and is clear enough ( I don't have anything else to compare to for clarity) The retical and lack of zero stop is a non issue to me.

The next logical step to get a bit more flexibility with variable power is the HD 5-20. I saw franks review he claims the internals are rock solid and glass is good. The swfa scopes seem to be a real bargain the HD 5-20 non illuminated is $1300 US. I have seen people claim the glass is well above its price point, my question is how does the glass compare to lets says nightforce atacr 5x25, or S&B 5-25. Are the internals as robust as these 2 scopes??

My gut feeling is you pay a lot for features such as special reticals, zero stops, illumination, fancy turrets etc. Putting all this aside and only caring about tracking, build quality and glass is the swfa 5-20HD on par with tier 1 scopes.

Thanks

 

[PBWalsh]

First off, the 5-20 is a nice optic, though I haven't mounted mine yet, awaiting an AI. I have shot through a member's Kahles 6-24 and I have a SWFA 10x42 (non-HD).

To compare my 5-20 and the 10x. the color and image are indeed different between the two. The 5-20 has noticeably better overall glass. The kicker here is that, from my observations, the 5-20 at $1,300 MSRP does not have glass that is 4.33 times better than the standard 10x or 12x. Of course as price increases, the point of diminishing returns exponentially increases. For what its worth, I feel the glass my SWFA 10x is better than the Athlon Talos BTR (both at the $300 price point). The Talos is a great optic though if you were like me and wanted to try out a tree reticle without dropping too much money or if you need a budget scope.

As for the Kahles, that was shot on a warm humid day in Alabama over a hot AIAT barrel. The glass was excellent, but not 2 - 3 times better than my observations with the SWFA 5-20. I'd have to compare them side by side though to form a solid opinion between the SWFA (supposedly tier 2) and the Kahles (supposedly tier 1).

It really depends on your budget. If its $1,300 then find the best deal you can. I highly recommend samplelist.com and the optics PX at the bottom of the forum. I picked up my 5-20 on here for $900 with a throw lever.

Oh and just order a set of zero stops from Timk on here, cheap, effective, and fast shipping. As far as the reticle goes, I like the simple mil-quad, but its pure personal preference. Admittedly, SWFA would sell a few more scopes if they offered a basic tree reticle in their line-up and sold Timk's kit as an accessory with the scope, or included with the scope.

 

[padom]

Had SWFA 5-20 HD many years ago. It was an excellent scope for the $1200 I paid for it back then.

Is the glass as good or on the same level as the NF or S&B, no.

Today there are so many better options for the money that I would buy over the 5-20 HD.

You can get a Vortex Gen1 Razor HD, PST Gen2, Athlon Cronus BTR, Athlon Ares ETR just to name a few in your price range that I would take over a 5-20 HD.

The Gen 1 Razor and Athlon Cronus BTR have better glass than the 5-20 HD, better reticles, zero stop. I know you said you dont care about these features but you get then along with the better glass for the same money. I have all of these scopes mentioned.

 

[pitdog85]

Thanks guys, padom you answered most of my questions there. I don't really have a budget just depends how long I want to save for. I'm in Australia and the pricing of stuff is very different compared to the US. For example Athlon scopes are relatively more expensive here vs the US however MARCH scopes are relatively well priced here compared to the US. Nightforce and S&B are on par with eachother here. Think I will keep on saving and use the swfa 12x until then hasn't let me down yet.

 

[texag0842]

It's not as good as my S&B's or my TT but I'd rate it above the Bushnell DMR, Vortex Razor Gen1, Vortex PST. Can't comment on the Athlon since I haven't shot them side by side enough to compare them.

 

[Mordamer]

SWFA 5&20 HD is an excellent scooe. Tracking is perfect. You can get them for under $1,000 in the Optics exchange section. There is more competition in the price range than there used to be, but I don't think you will be dissapointed if you purchase one.

 

[Tunnuh]

If you're at 1300 The Cronus BTR isn't a lot more, and I was kinda in the same boat. Went with the Cronus.

 

[918v]

Define Tier-1. How many tiers are there? Seems lately every scope is tier 1. It’s so crowded up there.

 

[patriot07]

I've run the SWFA, Cronus, Vortex AMG, and shot with a few other high-end scopes. Also ran the SWFA fixed-power scopes when I first started, so I can relate on that end as well. Currently, I run the SWFA HD 5-20 on my 6.5 CM bolt gun, and it's my plan to keep that on there til some of this alpha-glass comes down into the $1200-$1400 range, which will happen eventually.

For my money, the best bang for the buck is a used SWFA HD 5-20, period. Never heard of one breaking down, the glass is fantastic, reticle is easy to use, and the turrets are nice. I did have to add the parallax gripper because the knob can be tight. The glass is a significant upgrade from their fixed-power offerings and the mag range and overall ease of use are great. It's just a fantastic piece of equipment.

#2 best bang for the buck in the $700-$1500 price range is the Cronus. The extra mag is nice, glass is great (similar to SWFA HD, maybe a hair better but you'd never notice unless you had them next to each other, which I have done), reticle is very good, but the turrets leave a lot to be desired. I've heard the BTR has resolved this, but it's a decent bit more expensive than a used non-BTR model. I think these are very well built, but you do hear of issues from time to time, and I'd maybe give it a 9.5 on the robustness scale if I gave the SWFA a 10. Both good, but the SWFA is nearly flawless. Cronus also has zero stop, which is the only thing I feel my SWFA is "missing".

To do any better than these two, IMHO you have to spend upwards of $2k and get into the AMG and Razor Gen 2 territory. And if you're truly comparing bang for the buck, nothing that costs twice as much as the SWFA or Cronus is twice as good. So you kind of have to exclude those 2 and stay within the same price range to discuss value. AMG and Razor Gen 2 can both be had under $2k, so they're a different price point than the ATACR, S&B PMII, Minox ZP5, Kahles, etc., and those are a different price point than the TT. So those all kind of have to be discussed separately IMHO.

 

[texag0842]

I've run the SWFA, Cronus, Vortex AMG, and shot with a few other high-end scopes. Also ran the SWFA fixed-power scopes when I first started, so I can relate on that end as well. Currently, I run the SWFA HD 5-20 on my 6.5 CM bolt gun, and it's my plan to keep that on there til some of this alpha-glass comes down into the $1200-$1400 range, which will happen eventually.

For my money, the best bang for the buck is a used SWFA HD 5-20, period. Never heard of one breaking down, the glass is fantastic, reticle is easy to use, and the turrets are nice. I did have to add the parallax gripper because the knob can be tight. The glass is a significant upgrade from their fixed-power offerings and the mag range and overall ease of use are great. It's just a fantastic piece of equipment.

#2 best bang for the buck in the $700-$1500 price range is the Cronus. The extra mag is nice, glass is great (similar to SWFA HD, maybe a hair better but you'd never notice unless you had them next to each other, which I have done), reticle is very good, but the turrets leave a lot to be desired. I've heard the BTR has resolved this, but it's a decent bit more expensive than a used non-BTR model. I think these are very well built, but you do hear of issues from time to time, and I'd maybe give it a 9.5 on the robustness scale if I gave the SWFA a 10. Both good, but the SWFA is nearly flawless. Cronus also has zero stop, which is the only thing I feel my SWFA is "missing".

To do any better than these two, IMHO you have to spend upwards of $2k and get into the AMG and Razor Gen 2 territory. And if you're truly comparing bang for the buck, nothing that costs twice as much as the SWFA or Cronus is twice as good. So you kind of have to exclude those 2 and stay within the same price range to discuss value. AMG and Razor Gen 2 can both be had under $2k, so they're a different price point than the ATACR, S&B PMII, Minox ZP5, Kahles, etc., and those are a different price point than the TT. So those all kind of have to be discussed separately IMHO.

SWFA has approved Tims zero stop kit for the 5-20

I ordered a gripper. How do you like it?

 

[koshkin]

This has already been answered, but to re-iterate, optical quality of the 5-20x50 SWFA is abotu on pare with Gen 1 Razor, Athlon Cronus, DMR II, Tango6, etc.

I think Delta Stryker I have here is a little better, but it is not a big difference.

SWFA 5-20x is better than both generations of PST, XTR, etc scopes. The only lower priced scope that can kinda hang with it optically is Sightron SIII, although the SS has an edge there.

Mechanically, I have heard of a couple breaking, but generally, they are extremely well made. I agree that the biggest weakness this design has is the lack of a zerostop.

ILya

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Love mine but it isn't my idea of "tier 1" glass. Another option in that range is the Steiner T5xi with the updated turrets. An outstanding little scope and I love the SCR reticle. The turrets are amazing and the glass is better than the SWFA 5-20HD. The swfa, however, is pretty bomb proof. I don't see myself ever getting rid of it. It currently resides on my custom .300wm that doesn't get a ton of use but I know that the scope on it won't let me down on a hunt. I don't want to steer u away from it but u should know that there are competitors in its class that weren't there too terribly long ago.

 

[patriot07]

SWFA has approved Tims zero stop kit for the 5-20

I ordered a gripper. How do you like it?

Hadn't heard that about Tim's shim kit. Good news.

Love the gripper. Worth every penny, given how much I use the parallax knob and how much easier it makes it to use.

 

[lennyo3034]

Thanks guys, padom you answered most of my questions there. I don't really have a budget just depends how long I want to save for. I'm in Australia and the pricing of stuff is very different compared to the US. For example Athlon scopes are relatively more expensive here vs the US however MARCH scopes are relatively well priced here compared to the US. Nightforce and S&B are on par with eachother here. Think I will keep on saving and use the swfa 12x until then hasn't let me down yet.

I've had 3 of the SWFA 5-20. I'd rate it on par with the Gen 1 Razor. For the same price, I prefer the Bushnell DMR2. Better turrets and reticle with very comparable clarity.

I also own 2 Marches and if that is remotely close to the same price point of the SWFA, go with the March. In the US, the March is significantly more expensive.

 

[Quarter Horse]

I've been thinking about trying an "Alpha" scope for a couple of years. A while ago I PM'd a member who was using a couple of the scopes at the top my list and had owned a SS 5-20. I have a couple of the 5-20s bought during the initial offering so I asked for a comparison to these. My concern was image quality. His response was that I would not be able to justify the additional expense if that was my sole criteria. So, I bought another 5-20 off the SH Post Exchange for a crazy good deal.

When Euro-Optic had their S&B sale a couple of weeks ago I caved and bought a 5-25 PMII. When I get the time I will do a comparison. It will be simple one on one comparison with no other entries to confuse the comparison.

If you have a SS 5-20 buy both a cat-tail and the Aadland Parallax gripper. They make an incredible difference in the ease of using the scope.

 

[pitdog85]

thanks everyone some great comments there.

 

[bjay]

I've been thinking about trying an "Alpha" scope for a couple of years. A while ago I PM'd a member who was using a couple of the scopes at the top my list and had owned a SS 5-20. I have a couple of the 5-20s bought during the initial offering so I asked for a comparison to these. My concern was image quality. His response was that I would not be able to justify the additional expense if that was my sole criteria. So, I bought another 5-20 off the SH Post Exchange for a crazy good deal.

When Euro-Optic had their S&B sale a couple of weeks ago I caved and bought a 5-25 PMII. When I get the time I will do a comparison. It will be simple one on one comparison with no other entries to confuse the comparison.

If you have a SS 5-20 buy both a cat-tail and the Aadland Parallax gripper. They make an incredible difference in the ease of using the scope.

Im still waiting for the aad grip.what is cat tail

 

[Quarter Horse]

bjay, same thing you called a switchview in you S&B ad. If you've had both the PMII and SS 5-20, what is your impression of the difference in image quality?

 

[bjay]

bjay, same thing you called a switchview in you S&B ad. If you've had both the PMII and SS 5-20, what is your impression of the difference in image quality?

I had 3-20x50 sb on my hunting rifle.bought and HD 5-20.compared the two...is SB 2k better? NOP maybe couple hudreds.i was surprised with SWFA glass
Here she WAS..now hd is what i got on there

 

[patriot07]

is SB 2k better? NOP maybe couple hudreds.i was surprised with the HD glass

Pretty much where I'm at. Is the SWFA the best glass available? Not at all. Can I justify anything twice the price for relatively small improvements? Nope...

If I shot PRS, I'd probably consider a NF ATACR and it wouldn't buy me any more hits but it would be more pleasant to use. But as a hobbyist, the SWFA is plenty good enough for everything I do and then some. In fact, I've shot in two informal matches this year - finished 5th out of 30 in the precision hunting match and 6th out of 22 in the long range precision match. More practice would have moved me up in the standings - a more expensive scope would not have.

 

[702lineman]

The swfa 5-20 is one of the best scopes I have owned and I have had plenty that cost way more. I think the glass is better than some are giving it credit for on here even. I owned mine at the same time as a gen 2 razor, and both on 20x I couldn't tell much difference.

I'd take a 5-20 over the bushnell xrs I owned anyday.

I liked the gen 2 razor and both my uso scopes better but your talking way more money new. But I did just pick up a uso lr17 for 1300 used the other day.

Long story short, you cant go wrong with the 5-20hd for the priice

 

[BurnOut]

This has already been answered, but to re-iterate, optical quality of the 5-20x50 SWFA is abotu on pare with Gen 1 Razor, Athlon Cronus, DMR II, Tango6, etc.

Interesting to see the Cronus and Tango6 grouped together... when I compared a (1st gen) Cronus and (2nd gen) Tango6 (5-30) back-to-back, the Tango6 was noticeably better (more clear) to my eyes than was than was the Cronus. Don't get me wrong, the Cronus is certainly no slouch in this regard, but IMO, the Tango6 was definitely a step above. To me, the Tango6 was closer to the Minox ZP5 than it was to the Cronus.

 

[padom]

I havent looked through a Cronus (Gen1) but my new Cronus BTR definitely is right there with my Gen2 Razor. And for $1425 its a steal IMHO.

I find a lot of comments in this thread hard to swallow. Does the 5-20 HD have excellent glass for the money, yes. Would I pay the new asking price today over a lot of scopes I already mentioned. Hell no. Its a scope of yesteryear. The reticle is extremely outdated, a lot of features missing for the money. If you can find a 5-20 HD for $900 - $1000 (this is what Ive seen them go for in the PX) I could see the reasoning there, maybe. But I cant find a single reason why anyone would buy one for $1300 over various other scopes mentioned.

I mean shit, I just sold a like new Gen1 Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50 EBR-2C MRAD 10 mill turrets with Seekins PMR rings, Vortex throw lever, Defender caps in original box with all factory accessories and just came back from Vortex with a complete go over for $1150 in the PX last month. For that package I wouldnt touch a 5-20 HD. But hey, thats just me. Deals like this can be had all the time in the PX.

Im just saying, there are a lot better options out there new and in the PX for your $1300.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

^I agree. I've had mine for 3 years. For a new price, there are better options.

 

[atomic41]

Love the gripper. Worth every penny, given how much I use the parallax knob and how much easier it makes it to use.

Would you mind sharing what the gripper is? Who makes it? I need one.

I'm a big fan of the SWFA. Yes it's a little outdated but it's got great glass and is rock solid. It's a scope that I know I can always depend on.

 

[PBWalsh]

Would you mind sharing what the gripper is? Who makes it? I need one.

I'm a big fan of the SWFA. Yes it's a little outdated but it's got great glass and is rock solid. It's a scope that I know I can always depend on.

https://swfa.com/aadland-parallax-gripper.html

I also may need to pick one of these up.

 

[atomic41]

https://swfa.com/aadland-parallax-gripper.html

I also may need to pick one of these up.

Thanks

 

[Dr. Davy Jones]

Love mine but it isn't my idea of "tier 1" glass. Another option in that range is the Steiner T5xi with the updated turrets. An outstanding little scope and I love the SCR reticle. The turrets are amazing and the glass is better than the SWFA 5-20HD. The swfa, however, is pretty bomb proof. I don't see myself ever getting rid of it. It currently resides on my custom .300wm that doesn't get a ton of use but I know that the scope on it won't let me down on a hunt. I don't want to steer u away from it but u should know that there are competitors in its class that weren't there too terribly long ago.

How is the durability of the Steiner t5xi? I’ve been considering a 3-15 as I’ve heard good things about reticle, glass, and overall design but I’m wondering about the ruggedness. Can you shed any light?

 

[patriot07]

They're rugged, but the glass isn't on par with other scopes in the price range.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

How is the durability of the Steiner t5xi? I’ve been considering a 3-15 as I’ve heard good things about reticle, glass, and overall design but I’m wondering about the ruggedness. Can you shed any light?

Theyre pretty rugged but like patriot07 said, its decent glass but there are better options in the price range.

 

[Dr. Davy Jones]

Theyre pretty rugged but like patriot07 said, its decent glass but there are better options in the price range.

Thanks for the replies. Which price range are you talking about- $1600 new or $1050 used? Which scopes do you see as clear winners in that range then?

 

[patriot07]

Thanks for the replies. Which price range are you talking about- $1600 new or $1050 used? Which scopes do you see as clear winners in that range then?

Either price range. Cronus, SWFA HD, Bushnell XRS or DMR II Pro all have better glass than the Steiner IMHO. At the new price, Delta Stryker HD blows all of those away.

 

[Dawhit]

Compared a 5-20 SSHD, 5-50 Trij, 4-24 VX 6 HD. The Trij and Leup had better light gathering at dusk, Leup the best of the 3.
The glass on the SSHD is good but not great but it is more than adequate to make a shot in legal shooting light.
The SSHD sits on my primary hunting rig, its reliable and tracks, and most importantly I have faith in it to perform when needed.

 

[NavyshooterM40]

Either price range. Cronus, SWFA HD, Bushnell XRS or DMR II Pro all have better glass than the Steiner IMHO. At the new price, Delta Stryker HD blows all of those away.

Midway has the XRS II on sale. Great scope for the money.