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Suppressors Is there a non TBAC muzzle brake system for TBAC ultra 7
- Thread starter LC 6.5 Shooter
- Start date
No. Best other option is the area419 system. That’s what I use on my ultra 7 and 9
Area 419 platform is what I use as well. There’s a YouTube vid that explains the benefit and cost effectiveness
Why use anything else? The TBAC brakes are superb in both quality and recoil reduction.
The Area 419 system is fucking trash. I ordered some mounts and ditched it without even putting a couple hundred rounds through it on a few rifles. Took a can that has zero POI shift ever with TBAC mounts and gave it incredibly unpredictable POI shifts. Area 419 makes some good products, but that ain’t one of them.
The Area 419 system is fucking trash. I ordered some mounts and ditched it without even putting a couple hundred rounds through it on a few rifles. Took a can that has zero POI shift ever with TBAC mounts and gave it incredibly unpredictable POI shifts. Area 419 makes some good products, but that ain’t one of them.
Appreciate the feed back. Ive got 2 tbac brakes I can utilize. Good to know recoil reduction is good with them.
You were definitely doing something wrong.
Definitely was not and definitely know others who have had the same experience with it.
Are you saying with the can on, off, or anytime you make a switch? No question changing between the can and the brake the POI shifts, but I’ve never noticed variable shifts.
Every time I’d put it on the POI shift would change and was not consistent. This was consistent across multiple rifles with different mounts.
Interesting.
I’m going to test that closer. I get about .1 mil vertical between the can and brake, but I’ve never done a same session multiple swap between the two. Gonna try that. (Got me second guessing selling the TBAC brakes that came with my cans!)
I’m going to test that closer. I get about .1 mil vertical between the can and brake, but I’ve never done a same session multiple swap between the two. Gonna try that. (Got me second guessing selling the TBAC brakes that came with my cans!)
TBAC just released some new non timed brakes and there are some third parties making brakes compatible with the CB thread, don thave time to find them but there are a couple.
You’re the first report I've seen of that. I was using that system long before I started selling it for my customer rifle builds and suppressor sales. Nothing but smiles.
Ive tested the shit out of this system. Including screwing multiple cans onto a freshly cut muzzle thread while the barrel is still in the lathe, to check runout at the end of the can with a test indicator.
I did a range report here on the hide with the gun and cans below. No sight setting changes, just shoot to the same point of aim for three rounds with each these at 500 yards. Every shot went into the group. The target pic is uploaded here somewhere. The rifle is a 16” 6.5 creed Fix, not an easy gun to shoot tight with group after group.
Other than the Area 419, no. This is why I don't own a TBAC can. If they would just do like the rest of the industry and use HUB (1.375x24 threads) then you could use any mount you wanted...And I'm heavily invested in the Dead Air KeyMo/KeyMount system. But TBAC wants to be proprietary. So, until they fix that, TBAC is a no-go for me.
I'm not 100% sure on the exact dates of everyone else's stuff, but I am pretty sure the CB brake system predates the other mounts referenced above.
Granted, that might not change the precise application of the word proprietary...
However, I think it does affect the implication -- that I read into it anyway -- that we chose to be proprietary in spite of good, accurate and repeatable suppressor mounting systems being on the market. That wasn't true at the time.
From another aspect, if we control the mounts and the suppressors, we can "guarantee" more, and there is very little debugging (or worse, finger pointing) necessary, when a customer has a problem. This thread provides an example of that uncertainty. In the interest of full disclosure, besides redneckbmxer24, I have spoken to one or two other shooters who had a similar problem with the 419 adapters. (Which, admittedly, if they have sold a lot of them, means that very very few have problems.)
We aren't dead set against incorporating a standard back-end to some of our cans at some point. However, taking the Gen 2 Ultras as an example, doing so would only add weight and more moving parts to a design that is at a very high level of optimization.
Granted, that might not change the precise application of the word proprietary...
However, I think it does affect the implication -- that I read into it anyway -- that we chose to be proprietary in spite of good, accurate and repeatable suppressor mounting systems being on the market. That wasn't true at the time.
From another aspect, if we control the mounts and the suppressors, we can "guarantee" more, and there is very little debugging (or worse, finger pointing) necessary, when a customer has a problem. This thread provides an example of that uncertainty. In the interest of full disclosure, besides redneckbmxer24, I have spoken to one or two other shooters who had a similar problem with the 419 adapters. (Which, admittedly, if they have sold a lot of them, means that very very few have problems.)
We aren't dead set against incorporating a standard back-end to some of our cans at some point. However, taking the Gen 2 Ultras as an example, doing so would only add weight and more moving parts to a design that is at a very high level of optimization.
I understand all that, I just feel that it would open up your sales a lot more to other folks who are already invested in other mounting solutions if you ran HUB...Plus, you would still be able to make your own CB style mounts that fit into the back of the cans, they would just thread-in with the 1.375x24 threads. I know that personally, I would love to have a TBAC can that would accept KeyMo. It would be a great precision rifle/DMR can & mount setup, being that the KeyMo mount is also proven to be extremely tough and repeatable POI. I think that would be really cool. Once again, just thinking my thoughts out loud...
There’s a lot of people who would disagree with you calling the keymo system repeatable and I’m one of them. I had two AAC cans converted and ordered both keymo and plan B systems to test and when I finally got around to shooting them the keymo was atrocious, even on a 10.5” 5.56 accuracy opened up considerably where it didn’t with the plan B. Plan B just had a noticeable POI shift but that’s the nature of the beast with a heavy can like that.
The CB mount is a precision rifle system. If you want accuracy and repeatability it’s hands down the best there is. I’ve ran it on dozens of rifles and barrels and all but one had absolutely zero shift. On my Fix with the 26” Proof carbon barrel it dropped it a smidge low but it was less than .1mil so I couldn’t even adjust for it.
At the end of the day you don’t need to be able to run one can on every gun if you’ve got multiple cans. Leave your QD stuff for the battle rifles and run a proper precision rifle setup for your precision rifles. If you can afford this hobby and suppressors then you can afford a few extra brakes.
The CB mount is a precision rifle system. If you want accuracy and repeatability it’s hands down the best there is. I’ve ran it on dozens of rifles and barrels and all but one had absolutely zero shift. On my Fix with the 26” Proof carbon barrel it dropped it a smidge low but it was less than .1mil so I couldn’t even adjust for it.
At the end of the day you don’t need to be able to run one can on every gun if you’ve got multiple cans. Leave your QD stuff for the battle rifles and run a proper precision rifle setup for your precision rifles. If you can afford this hobby and suppressors then you can afford a few extra brakes.
Why don’t you go back and read that post directly above mine that you quoted there champ...
Yes the Area 419 system sucks. Sorry not sorry.
My apologies, I did not see there was hidden content from an ignore member on the page and that was one of them.
Keymo is not as repeatable. I agree with you, leave that on non precision rifles (which is my setup - keymo on short stuff, Area419 on precision stuff)
So agree on keymo, disagree on A419.
Glad it works for you, hi points work for some people too. I’m not the only one who has had issues with the system though.
I'm sure there is more than one person that can't shoot no matter the system.
So simply changing the mounting system from one to another suddenly makes someone not be able to shoot straight... I don’t think I need to point out how stupid that’s sounds.
Lol. I’m going to continue to direct thread as it keeps me out of threads like this:
TBAC sells 100% of their manufacturing capacity. What would opening "up your sales a lot more" accomplish?
I often wonder if the people asking for the universal threads understand what they're asking.
I have a 30P-1 can from about 10 years ago. If you offered a service, like your re-core, to re-machine my 30P-1 from 5/8x24 to 1.375x24 I would be all over that.
My dominus won't be ready until June 2022 at the earliest..... I need to stop thinking about it lol.
Agree with what you said.
I have an Ultra 7 for .223 and an Ultra 9 for 30 cal. I intend to purchase the .338 Ultra once that rifle gets more near completion. HUGE fan.
I use the U7 for several .223/5.56 rifles and most recently on the B14R. The U9 has been on a 280Ackley, 300WINMAG and 30 Nosler.
Every rifle sees a POI shift with the can as opposed to just the CB brake. But it's just a shift and is exactly the same every time for each rifle. Don't misinterpret, each rifle exhibits a different POI shift. I have 2 sets of DOPE cards for each rifle, one with and one sans can. The .223AI is exactly 1 MOA higher with the can, no windage shift. I theorize the shift is a combo of faux barrel length giving me about 75 fps more velocity (MagnetoSpeed) and the change of barrel harmonics.
These cans do not alter accuracy and I might argue, as in the case of the B14R, that the can may actually increase accuracy. I'd have to do LOTS more testing, and I'm not real interested in doing that, to confirm what I saw happening with the 22LR last weekend. It could have been just the brand new rifle getting broke in...I'll just shoot it with the can. I cleaned that U7 this last week. It's amazing how much crap they collect.
I use the U7 for several .223/5.56 rifles and most recently on the B14R. The U9 has been on a 280Ackley, 300WINMAG and 30 Nosler.
Every rifle sees a POI shift with the can as opposed to just the CB brake. But it's just a shift and is exactly the same every time for each rifle. Don't misinterpret, each rifle exhibits a different POI shift. I have 2 sets of DOPE cards for each rifle, one with and one sans can. The .223AI is exactly 1 MOA higher with the can, no windage shift. I theorize the shift is a combo of faux barrel length giving me about 75 fps more velocity (MagnetoSpeed) and the change of barrel harmonics.
These cans do not alter accuracy and I might argue, as in the case of the B14R, that the can may actually increase accuracy. I'd have to do LOTS more testing, and I'm not real interested in doing that, to confirm what I saw happening with the 22LR last weekend. It could have been just the brand new rifle getting broke in...I'll just shoot it with the can. I cleaned that U7 this last week. It's amazing how much crap they collect.
I dont doubt that you want a keymo on the back of a tbac, but I dont think most do. Its long and heavy.
Everyone has an opinion and they’re entitled to it…Even if you don’t agree. I like the KeyMo setup, and the muzzle brakes. To each, their own.
I have both the KeyMo setup and several TBAC cans. Not once did I ever think to myself that TBAC should be compatible for every other Tom Dick and Mary manufacturer out there. I bought the TBAC cans for a reason, for their precision. If you are discounting TBAC because it doesn't fit a certain mount, you are concerned about the wrong thing.
Assuming I'm discounting them, because I think their proprietary mounting system is not ideal for shooters who are heavily invested in mounts and suppressors from other brands, makes you sound like an elitist. And assuming the fact that because some people don't like their mounts means that they must not want to run their cans, is also stupid.
Contrary to the way all of you elitists try to portray me, I think very highly of TBAC, I just think their proprietary system is hindering them from sales to other people that makeup the other 98% of the suppressor market. I'm not saying they should change their current setups, but it would be nice if they offered the same setups, but also offered the same cans with HUB threads for those of us who might want to run TBAC cans, but are already a couple grand invested in other brands' mounts... It would cost me more than the TBAC can + tax stamp to swap all my mounts just to run their suppressor on my precision rifles. That's throwing away money, IMO.
Let’s spice it up….. @flyer1a you have any thoughts?
We did make a mount that was ideal for full auto firing schedules AND is appropriate for precision rifles (and was selected by AI for their ASR submission): the SR mount. It has a coarse thread for primary shouldering and then a secondary mechanism which adds additional rotational tension and also acts as a secondary lock.
It's easy for these threads (pardon the pun) to get antagonistic. There isn't really a need for them to be.
And all joking aside:
MudRunner2005,
You already have a can or two, if I am remembering your prior posts correctly. What I've found is that I almost always end up dedicating one can to one right, or a setup very similar to that. If you're looking for an excuse to get a TBAC can, but have a hard time rationalizing it due to wanting to be able to use it on "everything" (and yeah, getting 10 of any brake or mount is not going to be cheap), then I'd offer this idea. Pick one rifle where you really would take advantage of the repeatability and light weight of an Ultra, and give it a try.
We do understand the appeal of a standard back-end, however, it doesn't make sense for us to offer in a highly refined design like the Ultra as it would undermine some of its basic value. That doesn't mean we'll never make one, but it would have to be an application where it doesn't compromise the "purpose" of the design.
Hope this helps
And all joking aside:
MudRunner2005,
You already have a can or two, if I am remembering your prior posts correctly. What I've found is that I almost always end up dedicating one can to one right, or a setup very similar to that. If you're looking for an excuse to get a TBAC can, but have a hard time rationalizing it due to wanting to be able to use it on "everything" (and yeah, getting 10 of any brake or mount is not going to be cheap), then I'd offer this idea. Pick one rifle where you really would take advantage of the repeatability and light weight of an Ultra, and give it a try.
We do understand the appeal of a standard back-end, however, it doesn't make sense for us to offer in a highly refined design like the Ultra as it would undermine some of its basic value. That doesn't mean we'll never make one, but it would have to be an application where it doesn't compromise the "purpose" of the design.
Hope this helps
We could make less accurate cans, but sell more of them!
"Please spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to make a silencer that allows me to buy your competitors products even though I won't buy it anyway because you're not my Instagram hero".
It's sound business advice, you should totally listen to that guy.
5 actually... 4 Dead Air cans (Nomad-LT, Mask HD, and 2 Sandman-S cans), and a Rugged Obsidian 45.
I get that, and I understand the reasoning behind it. But I have noticed nil POI shift with the KeyMo, so I just have a hard time considering it as an "inferior" or "detriment" to the design of the TBAC cans. No different than the CB setup, being a QD. And believe me, I completely understand your reasoning behind it, just seems like a brand/marketing bias type thing saying that your mount is superior in repeatability, when plenty of other mounts have proven to have nil or nearly negligible POI shift results, as well. From a marketing standpoint, I get it. And it's been proven to be a great system (other than the carbon-lock issues I've read a lot about), but as far as repeatability and POI shift, it seems to be a top-tier setup. And yes, I would love to have a TBAC can, but at this point, I would have to get a 5/8x24 DT can, and those are nearly impossible to find these days. Seems everyone wants a CB can, and nobody sells the DT models anymore (or maybe they just sellout faster?). I always wanted an Ultra 7 .30 cal can when I first got into suppressors. But given what I would be using it on the most, an Ultra-9 is probably more of a "smart" purchase for maximum suppression on big magnums (7mmRM, .300WM, 7mm STW, .300 Ackley, etc...).
And you should go choke on a big bag of dicks...
Yall are the elitist fanboys that are pretty much always virtually blowing TBAC... But your projecting that shit onto other people. Hilarious!
I think what actually happened is that some other people showed up with personal experience with some of the other mounts in question and gave their opinion. I didn't come in this thread to get in an argument about specific mounts-- but just to give input as to why we don't have a 1.375 back end on the Ultras.
If you're referring to my joke post (the one with the 6 smileys), then, yeah, having another interface that can come loose and accepts "any" device on the back is not going to be good for accuracy.
What we know is that our mounts are GTG. There are other mounts on the market that are also GTG. There are also mounts that harm accuracy/repeatability. If we go back about 12 years, it was a safe assumption at that time that ANY QD MOUNT would harm the accuracy, because almost all of them did. Given this history, from a precision rifle point of view, I personally would not assume amount is accurate/repeatable until it's been proven so.
They are all CB cans. Some just have a DT insert installed with permanent loctite. 90% or so of all cans we sell are CB/BA/SR, as opposed to DT.
Absolutely... Hell, back then just about ALL the QD setups were junk. Looking back, we all see how well the AAC and Surefire mounts aged...
I thought yall used to make welded-up DT mount cans... Maybe I was mistaken. Learn something new everyday.
Gotcha. I didn't know there was a change. I just remembered the older models that were fully-welded.
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