Sad part... she is one of my department heads... we have some good conversations that usually end with her butt hurt or dumbfounded because basic reason is tough to swallow. But she is a good nurse which is why I keep my punching bag around
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Israeli rocket attacks.
- Thread starter eca7891
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Sad part... she is one of my department heads... we have some good conversations that usually end with her butt hurt or dumbfounded because basic reason is tough to swallow. But she is a good nurse which is why I keep my punching bag around
As somebody who is not religious in the least, but who has significant experience with historians, I am not sure I can agree with this. I mean, the mere acceptance of Palestinianism as something that predated Israeli independence is pretty ahistorical, and building a history on that lie puts you on pretty weak soil.
Wasn’t Israel as we know it carved out in the 1940s?
Ether way it’s very unnatural, without our never ending help they’d vanish like a fart in the wind, strange having a country who’s continued existence depends on the charity or other countries
I’m not smart enough to understand why America should pay Israel’s defense? What benefit to the American people is it for Israel to exist or not?
That reasoning, if applied to Europe from 1945-1990 would hold true as well. Hell, from 1937-1945 as well. Also Japan, Taiwan, much of SE Asia for a long period of time. In other words, it isn't quite as profound or incisive as people like to make it seem.
Israel as we know it is a combination of mass legal land purchases, land taken in battle and land given by colonial powers. In short, it is, once again, not nearly as dissimilar from ever other fucking place in the world as people would like it to be. But acting as though it were different allows for different treatment. Not so unlike we used to do with black people.
What is odd is pretending that before Israel there was a land of Palestine. Palestine and Israel were created simultaneously. Before that, nobody in their right mind admitted to being a fucking Palestinian.
It’s the Middle East, it’s like africa, take off in a plane, come back to the airport and you see a different flag on the pole lol
Western obsession with trying to mold that part of the world, it reminds me of a kid trying to build sand castles at low tide
Again, I think you are being influenced by some pretty fucking impoverished western beliefs. Inarguably, the borders of Europe have changed more and faster since the formation of Israel than has Israel's, and that goes double if you look at all the hemming and hawing over the Euro zone. The arrogant European view sees Europe as stable, and we buy that because it is comfortable. That doesn't make it true.
I don't know whether it is in our best interest or not. There are certainly compelling arguments either way. What is important, however, is to sort out what corresponds to actual fact, and what corresponds to European/Left Wing propaganda that seeks to paint Israel as somehow different from other countries. Making decisions based on what the media and popular history tells you generally doesn't lead to much good.
I wasn’t talking about Europe.
Can you tell me what ROI mainstreet has seen from our meddling in the Middle East?
Well, you were talking about the ever changing borders in those parts of the world, which are actually changing less quickly than the borders in Europe, so I think I answered your question there.
I am not arguing that we should be overly involved in the Middle East, though I think there are good arguments in each direction for being more or less involved, and in different ways. I am simply arguing that there are a lot of arguments that are based in European propaganda about the differences between Christians and Jews, and that most of those arguments fall apart really quickly once you look at how things have actually transpired. I also think it is easy for American Christians to look at European Christians and see them as similar, but they really aren't. American Christians are, by and large, orthodox and, for lack of a better word, good, while European Christians, of all denominations, are generally mendacious bigots. Similarly, American and Israeli Jews are not all that similar.
I’m not really a superstitious guy, so religious groups like Jews Atheists Christians, I don’t really care as long as they don’t try to force their mythos onto me.
Ether way this nation building stuff needs to stop, Israel need to make shalom in their own home or let their natural resources get them where it’ll get them. Same goes for everyone.
The only exception is for times of war, though the aftermath can be messy, I fully support helping arm anyone in the upcoming war with china.
History says otherwise. You might do some reading into the USA arms embargo against Jews in Palestine right at the beginning and US citizens convicted of illegally supplying military aid to the Jews (pardoned decades later). It took a bit of time for the USA to warm up to being an open supporter of Israel, and that mostly happened when their attempts at doing it covertly were blown.
I'd suggest it is actually the USA and USA support that keeps Israel from deciding they need to do whatever it takes to make sure all the Arabs in the area will not be in a position to harm them for the next 1000 years.
But as to "carved out in the 1940s", if you go look at history, you'll see almost everything you see as borders in the ME today didn't exist back around 1910
Pretty much during WWI and then later in WWII the British Empire (for the most part, with a bit of agreement from other Europeans), made a bunch of borders for new countries, designed in proper British colonial fashion, to be unstable and always able to be played off back and forth.
"Palestine" was pretty much the British designation for one of their carved out areas that they had taken over from the dying empire they took most of the middle east from during WWI
unfortunately, many don't know the extent of anti-semitism that existed in the states prior to the war.
That sounds like the same thing I said, I just didn’t mention the stuff that happened 30yrs before
So let Israel do what Israel feels it needs to do. Not sure how that’s any different than doing it on a smaller scale for a longer period of time.
If we are going to be supporting them, I say we need a percentage of their GDP, unrestricted access to all tech and intel, all military and major state decisions needs our approval first, and we need Americans in all key positions in their government, as apparently that can’t run their own show.
They need to ether accept that they are a dependent, or be a big boy grown up state and get their hands out of main streets pockets.
Again, I don’t see the ROI for mainstreet here, all I see is us getting dragged into Middle East BS, which hasn’t worked out so hot for anyone ever.
I don't see where they would think that's a great idea since essentially that's exactly what they have going on with the USA, except in reverse, for their own benefit HA!
But if you follow the money, $3 billion a year of taxpayer money that then must be spent on weapons from big USA corporations...
I'm not religious either, but that doesn't mean that. you can dismiss religion and how it works.
As for the rest, it seems that you started out with a conclusion supported by a bunch of reasons. I've pointed out that most of those reasons don't hold up, or are misperceptions. Now you have a conclusion without reasons. Your choice to either revisit it or not.
QFT.
It’s not US aid that supports Israeli as much as paying them off to not stomp ass in the region.
If we let them off the leash there would be ME peace in a few years. Or I should say Jew and Arab peace. The two Muslim sects would still be slaughtering each other.
I have not seen any ROI to mainstreet
operation opera was right up their with Powell’s BS reasons for our attack years back, WMDs EVERYWHERE!!! When the dust settles not so much.
The only money Israel makes the US is from gov contractors who are paid from my paycheck, plus it helps fund their computer hacking industry
Israel is a direct result of western effort to bomb their will into the Middle East, and is only possible my continuing to pour our money and others blood on the problem
Seems like Israel costs us billions per year, and just gets a already angry group of religious nutters even more mad at the US, so increase my taxes, make me a bigger target for attacks, and I don’t even get a fucking T-shirt or a fruit basket? Does not seem like a good deal for us
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I don't even know what ROI to mainstreet really means in terms of foreign policy, not do I think it is the nec plus ultra of foreign policy reasoning.
The second paragraph I confess I do not understand. You may need to rewrite.
The third is another falsehood, demonstrably. Hell, already demonstrated. Israel exists because a bunch of people bought a bunch of land, legally, then when an empire dismantled, it was given sovereignty. It is really nothing more than that.
He's being misleading when talking about Poland. BUT... in just about every other country that the Nazis took from the Soviets they where welcomed as heroes. The local population took to rounding up Jews and any Soviets that they could get their hands on and turned them over to the Germans willingly. After they realized that they where under German occupation they didn't like it at all ( In Ukraine). The Ukrainians where subject to mass deportation, to be workers in Germany. But when the Soviets came back through lots of people from those counties joined the German army to try and stop the Soviets. Basically, because the Jews where for the Soviets and the people in those countries suffered so much from the Red Army, they had a common enemy with the Germans. There are Ukrainians today that are drawing checks from the gov that fought in the Waffen SS. Also, the reason why there are pro Russians in Ukraine is because when Russia took it back they starved to death and deported millions of Ukrainians, and then replaced them with Russian farmers.
Interesting article..... Nothing else to say....this is why Israel isn't going to stop until they reach they're objectives like Netanyahu says.
taken from the article link above.....
"In 2019, Fathi Hammad, a Hamas senior leader, told a group of Palestinians "There are Jews everywhere. We must attack every Jew on planet Earth! We must slaughter and kill them, with Allah's help. We will lacerate and tear them to pieces." Hammad later demanded "people of Jerusalem, we want you to cut off the heads of the Jews with knives."
The answer to the threat of Israeli extinction cannot be a ceasefire. Even if there were one, Hamas is clear there would be no real conflict resolution."
taken from the article link above.....
"In 2019, Fathi Hammad, a Hamas senior leader, told a group of Palestinians "There are Jews everywhere. We must attack every Jew on planet Earth! We must slaughter and kill them, with Allah's help. We will lacerate and tear them to pieces." Hammad later demanded "people of Jerusalem, we want you to cut off the heads of the Jews with knives."
"Hamas doesn't want peace or a ceasefire. It wants the extinction of Israelis.
The answer to the threat of Israeli extinction cannot be a ceasefire. Even if there were one, Hamas is clear there would be no real conflict resolution."
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this needs to be posted everywhere.
ridiculous. they ought to be discussing full on boots on the ground and occupation with round ups!
Why even send men in that could possibly get shot? Just firebomb it all. Make napalm great again.
And after that there would be peace, McDonald, disco, and a Disneyland by every mortar hole
There would sure be a lot of 'clarity' and 'understanding' by any/every ASSHOLE country that thinks otherwise. You can't honestly say that the Pali's are on the 'good/Right' side of this equation.
And you can't honestly believe that this 'mindset' that they have....doesn't need to change/end.
There will NEVER be peace in the middle east. There is no MONEY in peace.
Hi,
Absolutely part of it is about money!!!
Guess how much money we the USA taxpayers gave Saudi Arabia for signing "Peace Agreement" with Israel.
Guess how much money we the USA taxpayers gave Israel for signing the same agreement.
Guess how much money Israeli Defense Industry companies made in February (right after the agreement was signed, lol) when they were allowed to exhibit and sale for the first time ever at the IDEX exhibition in Abu Dhabi.
Guess how much money USA Defense Industry companies have made in the past 2 weeks in FMS (Foreign Military Sales) to Israel and surrounding areas.
Guess how much money Jordan is getting next month during the Warrior Competition at KASOTC.
Guess how much money certain Defense Industry companies will be getting during the Warrior Competition with the "unrest" of Pali's in Jordan bursting at the seams to go against Israel.
Sincerely,
Theis
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You have a lot of nerve bringing truth and facts into this discussion.
One international distraction after the next... and everyone sits here and argues about it.
Meanwhile, our own country continues to slide right into the toilet.
Meanwhile, our own country continues to slide right into the toilet.
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