Issue with Redding Bushing Dies - Too Long

[flounderv2]

Just wanted to throw this out there and see if anyone else has noticed this.

So I run the Redding Comp Bushing dies. Ive noticed that if I set them up to just bump the shoulder 2-3 thou that if I go back and measure my all my brass after I resize, I will get some that resize correctly but others where the shoulder will actually grow in length. It seems that unless I set them up to bump 5 thou or more that this is a consistent problem. What I think is happening from taking to a few others who have noticed the same thing is that the dies themselves are a bit too long. The result is that while some pieces of brass will resize, other pieces of brass will actually push the shoulder forward as it resizes the body since the dies are a bit long. Others that I have talked to have just chucked the dies in the lathe and taken a few thou off the bottom.

Thoughts from any of the long time reloaders?

No its not me and its not my press, Ive checked this on 3 different presses I have ranging from a forster, lee, dillon. Yes Im cam'ing it over full stroke.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Are you talking Type S bushing die? Or Comp Neck bushing die? There's a diff, usually here the type S die is short in length, and a hard cam-over will result in over-bumped brass.
The comp bushing die really wont bump a shoulder at all, neck only, trying to bump a shoulder here will fuck your brass up.

 

[Milo 2.5]

I guess I should have asked, do they go into the chamber after all this?
Read this thread, guy thought he was over bumping, when really he hadn't started to move it??

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ng/271693-bumping-shoulders-too-far-back.html

 

[918v]

Every FL sizing die pushes the shoulder forward before bumping it back. The reason you're getting an inconsistent reading is your fired brass did not fully fireform. It's not an issue unless they are not chambering.

 

[4Quangs]

You might try to increase the amount of lube or switch to another lube altogether. I had the same problem when I first started reloading; I bought another die and the problem persisted, bought a third die and still had the problem. I went through the cam-over adjustments when setting the dies, turn die in until it touches the shell holder firmly then add 1/8 to 1/4 turn. No good.

When sizing soft commercial brass, like Winchester, the problem was minimized, but with PPU brass it was worse and with LC brass it was off the charts. I started then to size each case twice with a one-quarter turn rotation between each attempt. Much better results. The press was difficult to operate on the first pass, felt like it wanted to stick and chatter when sizing and took too much pressure when withdrawing the case from the die. The sizing felt much smoother and easier on the second pass and case-to-case headspace was much more consistent.

The source of my problems turned out to be the lubricant; I was using Imperial Wax, which all commenters raved about. Maybe I was using too little, but after switching to Forsters high pressure lube, all of the cases would size with a single pass; no sticking, no chatter no excessive force required. In fact, I had to readjust my dies as the case shoulders were now being pushed back too far.

No problems at all after the switch to Forsters. That was two years and almost 10,000 cases ago.

 

[FLIGHT762]

You might try to increase the amount of lube or switch to another lube altogether.

I started then to size each case twice with a one-quarter turn rotation between each attempt. Much better results. The sizing felt much smoother and easier on the second pass and case-to-case headspace was much more consistent.

The source of my problems turned out to be the lubricant; I was using Imperial Wax, which all commenters raved about.

I've found similar results with turning the case 180º and sizing again, I was getting more consistent bump measurements. I actually found Imperial wax worked well.

I've read that other reloaders were using Mobil 1 Synthetic motor oil as a case lube and decided to give it a try. A friend gave me a few ounces of 20-50 Mobil 1 Synthetic Motorcycle oil to try. I was surprised to find the 20-50 works very well with a thin, even coat. I found the thicker viscosity (20-50 motorcycle oil) worked better as a case lube than the thinner viscosity (5-30).

O/P, if you have any friends that have any of the Mobil 1 20-50, try it.

Mobil makes a synthetic 75-90 gear lube, I haven't tried, but I suspect it would work as a case lube also.

 

[flounderv2]

Are you talking Type S bushing die? Or Comp Neck bushing die? There's a diff, usually here the type S die is short in length, and a hard cam-over will result in over-bumped brass.
The comp bushing die really wont bump a shoulder at all, neck only, trying to bump a shoulder here will fuck your brass up.

Type S Bushing Full Length Die. Like I said, i have more than one that is long in length and you cant bump the brass without bumping it at least 5 thouh. The die is definitely too long IMO. Now if you had competition shell holders you could make up for it but thats not an option on a dillon or forster.

 

[flounderv2]

Every FL sizing die pushes the shoulder forward before bumping it back. The reason you're getting an inconsistent reading is your fired brass did not fully fireform. It's not an issue unless they are not chambering.

Yes I agree, the FL die will push the shoulder forward which if the die is longer than it should be, then it will prevent you from bumping the shoulder due to bottoming out on the shell holder, i.e. you resize, die bottoms out but shoulder of brass doesnt reach the shoulder inside the die, therefore as the brass resizes, the shoulder moves fwd and actually grows in the die since the die is bottomed out on the shell holder and cant go down any more. Make sense?

I dont get what your trying to say here about my brass didnt fireform to the chamber, as thats not even a possibility. Its a die issue, not a fireforming or chamber issue and I run fairly hot loads so there's plenty of pressure to fireform, blow shoulder dents out, etc.

 

[flounderv2]

You might try to increase the amount of lube or switch to another lube altogether. I had the same problem when I first started reloading; I bought another die and the problem persisted, bought a third die and still had the problem. I went through the cam-over adjustments when setting the dies, turn die in until it touches the shell holder firmly then add 1/8 to 1/4 turn. No good.

When sizing soft commercial brass, like Winchester, the problem was minimized, but with PPU brass it was worse and with LC brass it was off the charts. I started then to size each case twice with a one-quarter turn rotation between each attempt. Much better results. The press was difficult to operate on the first pass, felt like it wanted to stick and chatter when sizing and took too much pressure when withdrawing the case from the die. The sizing felt much smoother and easier on the second pass and case-to-case headspace was much more consistent.

The source of my problems turned out to be the lubricant; I was using Imperial Wax, which all commenters raved about. Maybe I was using too little, but after switching to Forsters high pressure lube, all of the cases would size with a single pass; no sticking, no chatter no excessive force required. In fact, I had to readjust my dies as the case shoulders were now being pushed back too far.

No problems at all after the switch to Forsters. That was two years and almost 10,000 cases ago.

I can see lube causing issues by creating dented shoulders using too much lube (Been there, done that) etc but it shouldnt have anything to do with pushing the shoulders forward and not being able to bump them.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Really doesn't sound like you'll be happy until you shave some off the bottom of the die. You never did say if any of your sized cases re-chamber?

 

[flounderv2]

Really doesn't sound like you'll be happy until you shave some off the bottom of the die. You never did say if any of your sized cases re-chamber?

They rechamber when they bump back, they rechamber tight when the shoulder moves fwd. I didn't answer this because I guess I didn't see where it had anything to not being able to use the die to bump. For me it's about consistancy and if I can't bump them they way I want it doesn't matter if they chamber or not. I don't want brass that varies from 2-8 thou on the shoulder. I want it consistant at 2.5-3

 

[Milo 2.5]

Well you've debunked every theory thrown at you like you actually know the answer, last one, just what are you measuring with?

 

[918v]

You don't get it.

You are taking a baseline reading off a case that may or may not have fully fireformed to the chamber. That is the source of your error.

New brass can have as much as .015" clearance. Most have about .007" in my experience. Such brass is nice and soft. It grabs the chamber walls tightly. When the firing pin impacts the primer, it pushes the case forward in the chamber. Then the case walls grab the chamber walls, but the base sometimes does not stretch to bottom out against the breech face. You end up with a fired case whose shoulder DID NOT move. When you size those cases you notice a complete lack of shoulder bump. It happens. You can't use those cases as a baseline for headspace measurement.

Second, if your breech face is not square to the bore centerline, the cases will fireform crooked and will read differently in your indicator depending on their orientation.

So now you gave two possible sources of error: 1. Incomplete fireforming and 2. Crooked fireforming. Both will give you false readings.

If you don't understand geometry, start understanding.

 

[flounderv2]

Well you've debunked every theory thrown at you like you actually know the answer, last one, just what are you measuring with?

You act like Im just not listening. Im not new to reloading, precision reloading, shooting or the like. Im trying to keep things on topic here that make sense. Threads get derailed in a heartbeat around here more times than not, there is more mis-information than valid information.

Im measuring with Hornady headspace comparators. Ive measured thousands of cases with my set, using all of the relevant gauges across different calibers so lets not go down the path of the comparators being out of spec. I understand thats a possibility but considering all of the other brass Ive measure, dies used, etc, thats been ruled out.

 

[flounderv2]

You don't get it.

You are taking a baseline reading off a case that may or may not have fully fireformed to the chamber. That is the source of your error.

New brass can have as much as .015" clearance. Most have about .007" in my experience. Such brass is nice and soft. It grabs the chamber walls tightly. When the firing pin impacts the primer, it pushes the case forward in the chamber. Then the case walls grab the chamber walls, but the base sometimes does not stretch to bottom out against the breech face. You end up with a fired case whose shoulder DID NOT move. When you size those cases you notice a complete lack of shoulder bump. It happens. You can't use those cases as a baseline for headspace measurement.

Second, if your breech face is not square to the bore centerline, the cases will fireform crooked and will read differently in your indicator depending on their orientation.

So now you gave two possible sources of error: 1. Incomplete fireforming and 2. Crooked fireforming. Both will give you false readings.

If you don't understand geometry, start understanding.

Quit getting cranky and lets stay on track here.
1. I understand geometry quite well and even if something is crooked, Im using an independent device (the die) to push the shoulder back. What your saying is like saying I cant balance a tire on a tirebalanceing maching because I dont know if it was mounted crooked on the car or rim. They are independent of each other. If I wanted to turn a 6.5 case into a square block I could with a press the right die. It doesnt matter what the shape was before hand, the die doesnt care..
2. I can measure all my cases and every one of them 600+ measures identical. And thats fired so that pretty much eliminates the not fireforming case thought. This isnt new brass Im measuring, its fired brass 2-3x, annealed, trimmed every firing from the same chamber actually and this is a constant issue I have noticed with this set of 6.5 creedmoor dies.
3. Also, this is not a problem Ive had with some of the other dies I have.

Hopefully that helps. I find it interesting that out of all the comments and theories here that your getting upset over, not one person mentioned competition shell holders which in all honestly is the first thing that should come to mind in a situation like this. And since I cant use comp shell holders, yes, I keep going back to shaving a few thou off the die as that is essentially accomplishes the same as the comp shell holders.

Listen, I appreciate all the feedback but theres no reason for anyone to get cranky. Your suggestion, solution may or may not be correct, relevant etc. Either way, we should all learn something from the thread. The reason people dont tend to ask questions on here is because of the shitty attitude responses which doesnt really help anyone. We all have experiences, they all differ, we can all learn from each other but again there is a lot of mis-information on here as well soo again, step back and try and think about the situation from the other persons perspective and not just your own. Think about how you would resize a piece of brass, it doesnt bump etc, what would you do, you'd keep moving the die down until you got the right bump right. Well now that doesnt work until you get over 5k bump. That says that the die is too long. and bottoming out on the shell holder too late. Also remember dies are meant to serve a purpose and minimum spec which may or may not be what we are trying to accomplish with them.

 

[Milo 2.5]

You act like Im just not listening. Im not new to reloading, precision reloading, shooting or the like. Im trying to keep things on topic here that make sense. Threads get derailed in a heartbeat around here more times than not, there is more mis-information than valid information.

OK, what tool are you using?
Did you lose the expander ball and are now using black retainer?

 

[Milo 2.5]

2. I can measure all my cases and every one of them 600+ measures identical. And thats fired so that pretty much eliminates the not fireforming case thought. This isnt new brass Im measuring, its fired brass 2-3x, annealed, trimmed every firing from the same chamber actually and this is a constant issue I have noticed with this set of 6.5 creedmoor dies.

You've pretty much contradicted your statements? If they all measure the same, how do you know which are growing?

 

[Milo 2.5]

Hornady 6.5 creed brass comes from the factory so over-annealed, it's almost shit, by annealing each time, You're probably keeping the shoulders so soft you'll never have consistent sizing.

 

[flounderv2]

You've pretty much contradicted your statements? If they all measure the same, how do you know which are growing?

Sorry, Should have been more clear. All of my brass is fired and after every firing they measure identical.

 

[flounderv2]

I only anneal every 2-3 firings. I trim on a giraud every loading
My reloading process is:
For fired brass,
Decap, stainless tumble, lube/resize, corn cob tumble to clean lube off, trim on giraud, prime, powder, seat bullet.

 

[918v]

Shaving material off the die does not accomplish what competition shell holders offer. It accomplishes the opposite. Competition shell holders decrease headspace. Shaving material off the bottom of the die increases headspace. It's not that I'm cranky. Or maybe it is. It's early in the morning dammit!

Second, if your cases are fully fireformed and you are getting inconsistent shoulder bumps, then it's your press. You got linkage slop and frame springing to contend with. And yes, you are right, competition shell holders are the answer. But since you are loading on a stupid progressive, the only answer is 4Quangs lube, if it is as slick as he claims.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Sorry, Should have been more clear. All of my brass is fired and after every firing they measure identical.

OK, now some bump and re-chamber, and some grow and are hard to chamber. How could this be your die? I've loaded for 30 years w/o comp shellholders. One more time, which piece are you using to retain decap pin?

 

[flounderv2]

Shaving material off the die does not accomplish what competition shell holders offer. It accomplishes the opposite. Competition shell holders decrease headspace. Shaving material off the bottom of the die increases headspace. It's not that I'm cranky. Or maybe it is. It's early in the morning dammit!

Second, if your cases are fully fireformed and you are getting inconsistent shoulder bumps, then it's your press. You got linkage slop and frame springing to contend with. And yes, you are right, competition shell holders are the answer. But since you are loading on a stupid progressive, the only answer is 4Quangs lube, if it is as slick as he claims.

Im now resizing on a forster which doesnt use shell holders. I single stage my match ammo. The dillon is for training and pistol ammo.
Explain to me how removing material from the bottom of a die increases headspace. Comp shell holders can go thinner than normal shell holders, thus bumping the shoulder back more which is the goal. Think about it, The die can now go down further on the brass, thus you can actually push the shoulder back more. I think I know what you mean though. You will be increasing the headspace between the brass shoulder and the chamber shoulder but you are decreasing
the shoulder thus accomplishing the goal of bumping the shoulders back, i.e. not allowing them to grow when resizing.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Im now resizing on a forster which doesnt use shell holders. I single stage my match ammo. The dillon is for training and pistol ammo.
Explain to me how removing material from the bottom of a die increases headspace. Comp shell holders can go thinner than normal shell holders, thus bumping the shoulder back more which is the goal. Think about it, The die can now go down further on the brass, thus you can actually push the shoulder back more. I think I know what you mean though. You will be increasing the headspace between the brass shoulder and the chamber shoulder but you are decreasing
the shoulder thus accomplishing the goal of bumping the shoulders back, i.e. not allowing them to grow when resizing.

That's the 1st thing you've been right about Shaving material off the bottom would be the cheapest solution, rather than comp holders and shellholder conversion for the Forster.

 

[flounderv2]

That's the 1st thing you've been right about Shaving material off the bottom would be the cheapest solution, rather than comp holders and shellholder conversion for the Forster.

Didn't realize they had a shellholder conversion. I may have to look into that. I'd rather they create their own shellholder jaws in different thicknesses instead of current shellholders. I like the auto open and it makes knocking brass out and into a box very easy and quick.

 

[918v]

Im now resizing on a forster which doesnt use shell holders. I single stage my match ammo. The dillon is for training and pistol ammo.
Explain to me how removing material from the bottom of a die increases headspace. Comp shell holders can go thinner than normal shell holders, thus bumping the shoulder back more which is the goal. Think about it, The die can now go down further on the brass, thus you can actually push the shoulder back more. I think I know what you mean though. You will be increasing the headspace between the brass shoulder and the chamber shoulder but you are decreasing
the shoulder thus accomplishing the goal of bumping the shoulders back, i.e. not allowing them to grow when resizing.

Competition shell holders are incrementally THICKER than standard shell holders, thus decreasing headspace.

 

[918v]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vPoqyBnACmA

 

[Milo 2.5]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vPoqyBnACmA

With the name flounder, I'm having flashbacks of "Animal House" myself
I hope I haven't came across as Dean Wermer!

 

[4Quangs]

I can see lube causing issues by creating dented shoulders using too much lube (Been there, done that) etc but it shouldnt have anything to do with pushing the shoulders forward and not being able to bump them.

Apparently, the die under poor lube conditions, grips the case walls too tightly and will actually pull (not push) the case shoulder up as the case is withdrawn from the die.

Since switching to Forsters lube, all of my cases, every single one, has sized properly with a single pass of the die with no more variance than 0.001". Sizing MG brass with Forsters lube requires little more effort than sizing new Winchester commercial brass.

I have no connection with Forsters and am merely passing on a very pleasant real life experience.

 

[Assault116]

On the Forster press I've noticed this with certain dies as well, in my case, it doesn't really cause a problem on the ones that I have that do it though (just neck sizing). I've also considered shaving off the bottom of the die to accomplish getting the bushing down to the bottom of the neck. And yes it's a Redding S die.

I don't use their FL bushing die, so I can't really comment on those specifically. I size the body and bump the shoulders with a body die separately as I only bump the shoulders about every 3rd loading. I have not noticed the problem with the body die. With it I could bump the shoulder FAR more than needed.

As to the lube thing, I've also noticed that issue (inconsistency) with imperial wax, so I just use the Dillon lube and it seamed to cure that problem. I KNOW, it's not the lube specifically, but it's the application of it. The imperial wax and other similar lubes like unique are hard to apply as consistently as spray lubes that are thinner.

 

[4Quangs]

Competition shell holders are incrementally THICKER than standard shell holders, thus decreasing headspace.

It's a very confusing terminology thing. There are two commonly used headspace measurements: first is the case headspace and the second is the chamber headspace. The true headspace is the distance from the bottom (head) of the case to the face of the bolt when the case is fully inserted into the chamber.

When using a standard shell holder (0.125" high), the shoulder is pushed back to its maximum; when using the Redding +0.010" shell holder, the case is pushed back 0.010" less than then the maximum. To clarify, if the standard shell holder is used and the case headspace measured from the shoulder datum (0.400) to the base of the case is 1.628" (308 Win) then using the Redding +0.010" shell holder will result in a case headspace measurement of 1.638".

Redding instructs us to set the die using not our standard shell holder but to use the +0.010" shell holder instead. So when we change the out +0.010" for the +0.008" shell holder, our case headspace measurement drops from 1.638" to 1.636" and so on. I was so confused by this that I used my calipers to make sure what the story was.

The base (where the bottom of the head rests) on standard shell holder measures 0.125" thick. On the Redding shell holders they measure from 0.123" on the +0.002 to 0.115" on the +0.010 shell holder; that is the base of the shell holder thins as the number goes up.

Since Redding recommends starting with +0.010 and working down, the base of the shell holder does indeed thicken if you follow their instructions, but in no case are any of Redding's shell holders as thick as let alone thicker than a standard shell holder.

The bottom line of all this is that none of the Redding shell holders will push back the case shoulder as far as the standard shell holder. So if you're not getting enough push back on your case with a standard shell holder, the Redding Competition shell holders will not help you.

 

[4Quangs]

Im now resizing on a forster which doesnt use shell holders. I single stage my match ammo. The dillon is for training and pistol ammo.
Explain to me how removing material from the bottom of a die increases headspace. Comp shell holders can go thinner than normal shell holders, thus bumping the shoulder back more which is the goal. Think about it, The die can now go down further on the brass, thus you can actually push the shoulder back more. I think I know what you mean though. You will be increasing the headspace between the brass shoulder and the chamber shoulder but you are decreasing
the shoulder thus accomplishing the goal of bumping the shoulders back, i.e. not allowing them to grow when resizing.

See my post below for more info. Basically, we're using conflicting terms when we say headspace. The actual headspace is the distance from the bottom of the case to the face of the bolt. That's headspace and we generally want that number to be around 0.003" or so.

When you shave the bottom of the die, the chamber inside the die becomes shorter which results in the shoulder being pushed back more than with an unshaved die. The increased shoulder push back decreases the length of case, which will then, when inserted in a chamber, increase the distance from the bottom of the case to the face of the bolt.

 

[Thump_rrr]

The simple solution is a Redding body die.
It bumps the shoulder back without touching the neck.
The die is very compact so you can push the shoulder back to your hearts' content.
It's also cheaper than the competition shellholder set.

 

[dauntedfuture]

How does your rifle shoot? If your ES is good and your groups are good stick with what you have and go shoot. I see you are using FL bushing dies. If you are sizing brass that has been shot in several rifles it will not all size back down to the same point as the dimensions are all different. If you are using one die for several rifles you should keep the brass fired in each rifle separate. A FL bushing die is not going to move the shoulder forward unless you are pulling an expander ball through a dry neck, then It might pull the shoulder forward a little but. Once you have fired a stick of brass one time with full power loads its about as "fire formed" as its going to get into a given chamber, it does not take repetitive firings to form brass. You will find that there will be some variation in shoulder to case head variations in fired brass from a rifle. Ill usually find 1-10 cases that a little longer after firing then others and i'm not sure why. This is the reason that I recommend FL sizing only, its to eliminate this variation in sizing condition. From experience I know that FL brass that's a little hard to chamber will shoot a little high. This is an indicator to me that I need another 1/4 turn down on the sizing die to accommodate and make sure everything is sized as it should be. I loaded lots of good ammo for years with a standard redding FL and seating die for my 6.5x284 and shot some great scores with the ammo loaded.

 

[Deadshot2]

They rechamber when they bump back, they rechamber tight when the shoulder moves fwd. I didn't answer this because I guess I didn't see where it had anything to not being able to use the die to bump. For me it's about consistancy and if I can't bump them they way I want it doesn't matter if they chamber or not. I don't want brass that varies from 2-8 thou on the shoulder. I want it consistant at 2.5-3

If you have the Competition Die Set it came with a Body Die. Set the Body die for the shoulder bump you want. Then neck size using the Competition Die. If you want consistency then anneal your brass so the brass is consistent. That's where sizing consistencies all begin, with uniform material.

 

[flounderv2]

See my post below for more info. Basically, we're using conflicting terms when we say headspace. The actual headspace is the distance from the bottom of the case to the face of the bolt. That's headspace and we generally want that number to be around 0.003" or so.

When you shave the bottom of the die, the chamber inside the die becomes shorter which results in the shoulder being pushed back more than with an unshaved die. The increased shoulder push back decreases the length of case, which will then, when inserted in a chamber, increase the distance from the bottom of the case to the face of the bolt.

Agree 100%.

 

[flounderv2]

Apparently, the die under poor lube conditions, grips the case walls too tightly and will actually pull (not push) the case shoulder up as the case is withdrawn from the die.

Since switching to Forsters lube, all of my cases, every single one, has sized properly with a single pass of the die with no more variance than 0.001". Sizing MG brass with Forsters lube requires little more effort than sizing new Winchester commercial brass.

I have no connection with Forsters and am merely passing on a very pleasant real life experience.

Thank you for the explanation.

 

[damoncali]

Just a thought, but maybe your chamber is too long for the dies, and you're not able to set them up properly and have the correct headspace at the same time. I don't see what trimming the die would do - usually if you're touching the die at the top of the stroke, you're sizing way too much. How much of the neck is getting sized?

 

[Assault116]

Just a thought, but maybe your chamber is too long for the dies, and you're not able to set them up properly and have the correct headspace at the same time. I don't see what trimming the die would do - usually if you're touching the die at the top of the stroke, you're sizing way too much. How much of the neck is getting sized?

In this case "the chamber is too short" for the dies to put it in your terminology. IE the fired cases are shorter than what his die allows him to size too, hence not being able to consistently bump the shoulder back before the die bottoms out in the press. As the die sizes the body of the case it will push the shoulder up higher (lenghthening the case slightly) but the die doesn't go deep enough to bump the shoulder and correct it. He's essentially in that zone where he's just barely not able to consistently bump the shoulder far enough, but is bottoming out the die in the press on the jaws of the forster press. Shaving the bottom of the die allows him to run the die deeper in the press before it bottoms out on the shell plate/jaws (forster press) thus allowing the shoulder to be bumped back more than the die currently allows.

 

[damoncali]

I'm confused. If the shell holder is being hit, how can he size them even more (5 thous)?

 

[flounderv2]

In this case "the chamber is too short" for the dies to put it in your terminology. IE the fired cases are shorter than what his die allows him to size too, hence not being able to consistently bump the shoulder back before the die bottoms out in the press. As the die sizes the body of the case it will push the shoulder up higher (lenghthening the case slightly) but the die doesn't go deep enough to bump the shoulder and correct it. He's essentially in that zone where he's just barely not able to consistently bump the shoulder far enough, but is bottoming out the die in the press on the jaws of the forster press. Shaving the bottom of the die allows him to run the die deeper in the press before it bottoms out on the shell plate/jaws (forster press) thus allowing the shoulder to be bumped back more than the die currently allows.

+1 Exactly, And its not that its "Too Short" Its just a bit shorter than the saami spec the dies are designed around.

 

[Assault116]

yes of course, I was simply using the same language to help explain to Damoncali what you're seeing.

I'd assume that it's simply a fairly tight match chamber, and some tolerance stacking (tight chamber, die on the large side, press, etc) Especially since I've seen essentially the same thing with Redding S dies in the Forster press myself. Great dies, great press, just seems the dies are a bit deep to use with the Forster.

 

[damoncali]

Maybe I'm just dense, but how do you able to bump by 5 thous if the die is touching when you size 2-3 thous?