Rifle Scopes Japan Optics LTD any good? Their scopes are being blown out

[Twistid]

Variety of Scope Lens Caps Available at Jolusa Online Store

crimson trace 5 series - MidwayUSA

The Crimson Trace 5 series are 99.9% for sure made by JolUSA in Japan. The specs are identical in every aspect. Having said this, does anyone have any experience with Jolusa scopes (under whatever brand name they are sold under: Riton, Crimson Trace, ect..).

I am considering the 1-8x28 34mm tube however my experience is limited to LOW scopes (Razor, Bushnell Elite Tac, Athlon Cronus) and not JolUSA. For whatever reason it seems like these scopes were not well received and are being sold well below "normal value" so to speak for Jap scopes.

The only thing that has me slightly concerned is the exit pupil compared to say the Bushnell Elite Tac 1-8.5 (which I also own)

Exit Pupil:

Low 7.5mm - High 2.9mm

vs the Bushy 1-8.5 below...

Exit Pupil Diameter: 13.2 - 3.2 mm

 

[db2000]

I feel like ILya was pretty impressed with a CT on one of his reviews. You can search on YouTube. It was in comparison with some much more (especially now on sale) expensive optics.

 

[Nosigforyou]

I just got the CT 3525 which is one step down and would say the initial quality compares favorably with my Bushnell 1-6.5, Weaver 3-15, and even my Cronus. The class is very clear and everything appears to work as it should. Disclaimer: sample size of one and I’ve only been messing with it for a few hours.

 

[river22]

I am very curious what people have to say here. I also noticed that the CT 3 series 1-5 and the 5 series 1-8 are not even listed on the CT website... were they discontinued?

Also anyone have any idea why the 1-5 is a 3 series and the 1-8 is a 5 series... their is the 30mm and 34mm tube difference but other than that I can’t see why they have such different prices.

 

[patrol120]

I picked up one of the 1-5s on Midway for a 308 AR build, and got it mounted up last weekend. The first range outing left me very impressed. The reticle is about as near perfect as I have found for a LPVO for me, and the glass is phenomenal. The illumination is easily daylight visible, and the presents a very usable EoTech style donut of death at 1x and a very good graduated reticle at higher power.

 

[gsd1983]

I snagged one of the 1-5’s for a build. Haven’t run it yet, but I like the glass and definitely like the reticle.

Hearsay is that CT is rebranding/rebadging several lines and adding several more. The Series 3 and 5 are apparently getting folded into a “Hardline” which is supposed to be the tactical lineup.

At least that’s what Jesse Harrison hinted at the other day on FB.

 

[Cotay]

I am very curious what people have to say here. I also noticed that the CT 3 series 1-5 and the 5 series 1-8 are not even listed on the CT website... were they discontinued?

Also anyone have any idea why the 1-5 is a 3 series and the 1-8 is a 5 series... their is the 30mm and 34mm tube difference but other than that I can’t see why they have such different prices.

I bought one of each and I actually like the 1-5x a bit better due to the brighter reticle and slightly wider FOV on 1x. But I still very much like the 1-8x as well. The 1-8x has much better turrets. To my eyes the ED glass is the same in each. Right now, the 1-5x for $350 is the best value LPVO under $400. Anyone that buys a Strike Eagle or similar level scope while this thing is available on closeout is insane.

 

[Neurotic]

It looks like CT is dumping the Japanese made scopes for models made in either China or the Philippines. It seems pretty easy to see why, the reticles for the 3420 and 5324 were terrible, the MSRPs were high with steep, sporadic discounts and the scopes are generally large and heavy with limited elevation travel.

Ilya had a comment in the 1-8 MPO thread that he was unimpressed with the CT 1-8, but the 1-5 may be better.

I bought the clearance 3525 and 3105 and am very happy with both, although I haven't had an opportunity to shoot with either. The 3105 has some fish eye or parallax distortion at 1x at close range and the eye box may be a bit touchy at 5x. Otherwise, the reticle is great, illumination is daylight bright (I'm assuming a bit since there hasn't been much full sun lately) and the glass is very clear (can resolve small details with the limited magnification). I'm thinking of purchasing another...

 

[Neurotic]

I bought one of each and I actually like the 1-5x a bit better due to the brighter reticle and slightly wider FOV on 1x. But I still very much like the 1-8x as well. The 1-8x has much better turrets. To my eyes the ED glass is the same in each. Right now, the 1-5x for $350 is the best value LPVO under $400. Anyone that buys a Strike Eagle or similar level scope while this thing is available on closeout is insane.

Are you the one posting about the Sightmark Pinnacles? Any idea how their LVPO's compare to the CT 1-5? Thanks.

 

[Cotay]

Are you the one posting about the Sightmark Pinnacles? Any idea how their LVPO's compare to the CT 1-5? Thanks.

I didn't care for the Sightmark Pinnacle LPVO. The build quality and glass are typical LOW/excellent, but the FOV was way too narrow at 1x. I really wanted to like it, but I just couldn't. Also, its illumination is nowhere near daylight bright if that matters to you. I returned the one I purchased and ordered the CT 1-5x instead for a 7.62x39 AR build. It's the one I will be keeping.

Edit: I really like the other Pinnacle scopes, but I should note that I would not buy one refurbished from them. I tried two different refurbs from them in the past and both scopes had internal reticle artifacts. Their QC for refurbs is questionable at best, so I'd only buy NIB.

 

[Neurotic]

I didn't care for the Sightmark Pinnacle LPVO. The build quality and glass are typical LOW/excellent, but the FOV was way too narrow at 1x. I really wanted to like it, but I just couldn't. Also, its illumination is nowhere near daylight bright if that matters to you. I returned the one I purchased and ordered the CT 1-5x instead for a 7.62x39 AR build. It's the one I will be keeping.

Thanks for the awesome feedback. They seem to be available pretty cheaply for a LOW LVPO, but the FOV spec seemed narrow, the two color reticle illumination seemed like it probably came at some cost, the reticles are a bit meh, the magnification dial seemed too smooth with a cheesy looking optional throw lever and the non-transferable warranty was a concern. Thanks again!

 

[Cotay]

Thanks for the awesome feedback. They seem to be available pretty cheaply for a LOW LVPO, but the FOV spec seemed narrow, the two color reticle illumination seemed like it probably came at some cost, the reticles are a bit meh, the magnification dial seemed too smooth with a cheesy looking optional throw lever and the non-transferable warranty was a concern. Thanks again!

The throw levers are actually pretty good in my opinion...I like how low profile they are. It would have been nice if they included them with the scopes or if they'd come out with a 2nd Gen that integrates them. The 1-6x TMD reticle worked reasonably well for a FFP scope, but I do prefer the one in the CT. The brightness is similar to some of my other 1-6x LOW LPVO scopes so the dual color thing didn't really impact it much. If the FOV had been better I might have kept it. I liked the smoothness of the controls on it. The non-transferable warranty thing is a drag, but I tend to keep scopes more often than I sell them (and buy/assemble new rifles) so it was a calculated move to get a nice scope at a nice price.

Ilya had a comment in the 1-8 MPO thread that he was unimpressed with the CT 1-8, but the 1-5 may be better.

In all fairness, Ilya's issue was that the two samples he saw had distortion at 1x that he couldn't dial out with the diopter. That does not match my experience with the scope that I received from Midway. So maybe there is some sample variation going on. If mine was bad I would have sent it back already for that reason alone. If someone orders one I'd be sure to check for it immediately and with Midway's 90 day return policy there isn't much risk. The only major gripe I have is that its not as bright as the 1-5x.

 

[jdodd]

So the 1-5 still JOL? Sounds like a solid deal for an AR. Any reason to NOT buy?

 

[patrol120]

So the 1-5 still JOL? Sounds like a solid deal for an AR. Any reason to NOT buy?

I can't think of one.

 

[koshkin]

I liked the 1-5x a bit more on 1x.

Generally, JOL is a re-incarnation of what used to be called Hakko. They sorta vanished for a little while, but came back with a fairly competent line-up.

The reticles are up to whoever the customer is, but the basic optomechanical stuff is all JOL. They provided scopes for CT, Brownells, Riton and probably a few others.

CT has a couple of new product lines coming out that are made in the Phillipines (I should have a couple here soon). I am not sure if they will still have stuff done with JOL or if they are moving in some other direction.

ILya

 

[Cotay]

The reticles are up to whoever the customer is, but the basic optomechanical stuff is all JOL. They provided scopes for CT, Brownells, Riton and probably a few others.

CT has a couple of new product lines coming out that are made in the Phillipines (I should have a couple here soon). I am not sure if they will still have stuff done with JOL or if they are moving in some other direction.

ILya

I wouldn't be surprised to find that the Geissele 1-6x26 is made at JOL as well. The .2 MRAD adjustments are consistent.

As for the new CT Philippines lineup, is there any word on whether they are using Scopro or Kenko? If I had to wager I'd say Kenko since I see some similarity to Sightron STAC and Sightmark Latitude designs.

 

[Fanon]

I liked the 1-5x a bit more on 1x.

Generally, JOL is a re-incarnation of what used to be called Hakko. They sorta vanished for a little while, but came back with a fairly competent line-up.

The reticles are up to whoever the customer is, but the basic optomechanical stuff is all JOL. They provided scopes for CT, Brownells, Riton and probably a few others.

CT has a couple of new product lines coming out that are made in the Phillipines (I should have a couple here soon). I am not sure if they will still have stuff done with JOL or if they are moving in some other direction.

ILya

I was looking at the CT 3-18 ($799 on clearance) and am also considering the Sightmark Pinnacle 3-18 (also $799). Any thoughts on which of those you like better for the price, or if there's anything else MIJ in similar mag range that would be a better deal? The CT is especially appealing because I could use Amazon credits and get it for like $300. I was sort of also considering the Trijicon Credo 2.5-15 at $850 because it's lighter, but it's SFP.

 

[koshkin]

I have never tested the Pinnacle. I talk to Sightmark every SHOT Show. They are super nice and friendly, but when I follow up there is no response. They are very consistent in that regard: it is the same exact story for close to a decade, I think.

I have never tested the Pinnacle, so I have no idea how it stacks up. CT for $800 is a good deal if the reticle works for you.

ILya

 

[Fanon]

Thanks. I just watched your reticle video and I actually don't think it will work for me - I didn't realize the CT just turned into a floating cross at low mag. So if I want to go with JOL I'll have to spend a bit more for the MPO 3-18.

 

[Bart]

Not the OP, but thanks for the comments- i just placed an order for the 1-5, fit my budget and use- also going on 7.62x39 AR.

 

[koshkin]

Thanks. I just watched your reticle video and I actually don't think it will work for me - I didn't realize the CT just turned into a floating cross at low mag. So if I want to go with JOL I'll have to spend a bit more for the MPO 3-18.

That's why I do those "through the scope" videos. It is mostly to give you an idea of what the sight picture looks like. It is not terribly helpful for judging optical quality. However, simply showing the reticle and how it looks against a couple of different backgrounds seemed like a good idea to me.

ILya

 

[SageRatSafaris]

I wouldn't be surprised to find that the Geissele 1-6x26 is made at JOL as well. The .2 MRAD adjustments are consistent.

.2 MRAD adjustments are common on LPVOs, and I don't think is indicative of the OEM.

 

[Cotay]

.2 MRAD adjustments are common on LPVOs, and I don't think is indicative of the OEM.

What other Japanese OEM is currently producing an LPVO with .2 MRAD adjustments? I've certainly never seen a LOW LPVO with them and Tokyo Scope doesn't appear to have the design capability to pull this off. I think there are one or two other small Japanese players in the low end.

I'm pretty confident the Geissele is a JOL scopes. Besides, the turrets on the Geissele are identical to those on the CT 5 Series.

 

[schlaiek]

Razor 2 1-6 is .2 mil.

 

[Cotay]

Razor 2 1-6 is .2 mil.

How the hell did I miss that!? Thanks! I've only ever used the JM-1 and had a total brain fart on the MRAD VMR-2.

I'm still confident the Geissele ain't made by LOW.

 

[SageRatSafaris]

Has anyone figured out which factory is supplying the new Crimson Trace riflescopes (Hardline, Brushline)?

 

[koshkin]

Has anyone figured out which factory is supplying the new Crimson Trace riflescopes (Hardline, Brushline)?

They are from the Philippines. I know which factory, but if CT is not disclosing it, I should not either.

ILya

 

[Hi Ground]

They are from the Philippines. I know which factory, but if CT is not disclosing it, I should not either.

ILya

I guess I can appreciate that...but I don't understand why they (CT) would withhold that info unless it's a step backwards from the provider of the previous iterations (C2, C3, C5, C7). Or at least PERCEIVED to be a step backwards in quality.

 

[drewthebrave]

I guess I can appreciate that...but I don't understand why they (CT) would withhold that info unless it's a step backwards from the provider of the previous iterations (C2, C3, C5, C7). Or at least PERCEIVED to be a step backwards in quality.

I don't think this is as clear cut as you think it is. Pay close attention to the industry, and almost every OEM plays their cards close to the chest about their supply chains. They want you to purchase based on their name brand, not the name of their subcontractor. The conventional wisdom was that all optics coming out of China were junk, but then Athlon, Holosun, and a bunch of other manufacturers figured out the secret sauce to make affordable, good scopes there.

Just because they're not telling the public who makes these doesn't necessarily mean they're a step down in quality.

 

[koshkin]

I guess I can appreciate that...but I don't understand why they (CT) would withhold that info unless it's a step backwards from the provider of the previous iterations (C2, C3, C5, C7). Or at least PERCEIVED to be a step backwards in quality.

I have no idea whether they talk about this openly or not. Since, I think that the product should stand on its own merit regardless of who the OEM is, I do not get into the the OEM discussion too much unless it is pertinent. In this case, the important factor that there is zero relationship between first generation Crimson Trace scopes, and second generation Crimson Trace scopes. Both are made by perfectly competent OEMs who deliver good products in their respective price ranges.

ILya

 

[pburtman]

I just got the 2 series 4-16 from midway for $300. It’s s a pretty nice scope for the money

 

[S197]

I picked up one of the 1-5s on Midway for a 308 AR build, and got it mounted up last weekend. The first range outing left me very impressed. The reticle is about as near perfect as I have found for a LPVO for me, and the glass is phenomenal. The illumination is easily daylight visible, and the presents a very usable EoTech style donut of death at 1x and a very good graduated reticle at higher power.

How has this held up on your 308

 

[LRRPF52]

I picked up one of the 1-5s on Midway for a 308 AR build, and got it mounted up last weekend. The first range outing left me very impressed. The reticle is about as near perfect as I have found for a LPVO for me, and the glass is phenomenal. The illumination is easily daylight visible, and the presents a very usable EoTech style donut of death at 1x and a very good graduated reticle at higher power.

Also wondering how it has held up, if you’ve run a round count under it to-date.

I’ve seen enough scopes simply break when mounted to AR-10s, that it’s important to know how it has held up.

That BCG slamming back into battery is freaking brutal to optics if they aren’t built with epoxy retaining the modules and lenses in place.