-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
Johnny football does not go first
- Thread starter SFC Carpentier jr
- Start date
Anywhere in the first round is big time. I didn't think he would be first pick. I'm guessing late first .
Don't give jm too much flack. He was arguably the best qb in arguably the best conference. Yes he has a ton of baggage, but he has more upside.
it was crazy to see so many people excited/happy everytime he wasnt selected. hes a young talented athelete, sure hes gonna be cocky. hes still gonna be makin more money than 99.99% of his haters. and def gettin the honeys.
he will grow up and mature just like we all do. give the kid a break...geez
he will grow up and mature just like we all do. give the kid a break...geez
As a cowboys fan, I'm glad to see they address our problem of not having an offensive line. Next up they will need to address that we had one of the worst defenses in the league.
Screw him. I'm predicting it now, he will fail in the NFL just like Tebow did. He doesn't have the size, he wont be allowed to run in the NFL, and he's going to find DB's and LB's in the NFL aren't the same as college. I don't think he's that smart and don't believe he has the intellect to succeed, or really even stay, in the NFL. He's all hype that will die down when hit in the face with reality.
I fixed it for you Mike…… you are welcome
The first game he takes off in that scrambling business will be the game he leaves on a stretcher. I don't wish him injury but I just don't think he will be able to adapt to these larger guys on the opposite side of the field. He is going into a league of professional beasts as a midget. Let's be real about it.
On another note, even though he went low. I think Teddy Bridgewater will be a promising NFL QB in a few years. He has the talent just needs to work on his game at the pro level now.
I fixed it for you Mike…… you are welcome
The first game he takes off in that scrambling business will be the game he leaves on a stretcher. I don't wish him injury but I just don't think he will be able to adapt to these larger guys on the opposite side of the field. He is going into a league of professional beasts as a midget. Let's be real about it.
On another note, even though he went low. I think Teddy Bridgewater will be a promising NFL QB in a few years. He has the talent just needs to work on his game at the pro level now.
I agree with you 100% KYS except the Bridgewater statement. I watched him and I don't think he will make it unless he makes a HUGE change to his throwing accuracy/consistency. He didn't have a good combine relatively speaking and the fact that he throws with gloves more than not is telling.
Like I said….. it will take him a couple years to adapt but this guy has a cannon for an arm and one combine means absolutely nothing. Look at his body of work in college.
You are going to judge a player because he wears a glove? Come on….. you are better then that! Here are some QB's that wears gloves in the NFL:
Payton Manning
Ben Roethelsberger
Kurt Warner
Tom Brady
With time I think Teddy will be a weapon on the bench of whatever NFL teams will keep him there.
Whether like to admit it or not the combine carries weight and his wasn't well. That doesn't mean he's going to be a failure but it sure doesn't bode well for him in general. It would be different if he didn't struggle with the same issues he displayed in the combine (lack of accuracy) that he did in college (lack of accuracy) That's relatively speaking.
Let's break it down objectively as I don't have an axe to grind with him whatsoever. First, he's not that big at 6'2" and although he bulked up to 214, that's still small for an NFL QB. Also, how is that 20lb weight gain going to affect his quickness? Next, he has average arm strength at best and small hands. That's not me saying it, every NFL scout has said the same thing. Many NFL teams are not going to be willing to give him a "couple of years" to develop. He'll back someone up and if he doesn't step up quickly he'll bounce around from team to team until he goes down to Arena or up to Canada. His body of work in college is questionable as he has plenty of bad to go along with a lot of his good, and that's not even mentioning the less than stellar conference he played in. The ACC is a horrible football conference. I mean Louisville? Not exactly LSU or Gainesville is it? And finally the glove issue. Please show me any of those QBs you mentioned that wears a glove in warm weather, or even wears one consistently? None. Oh, and also on the gloves he says he will continue to wear them in private workouts; I don't think that's a very good idea. He needs to work on passing without the glove but it's probably a band aid to overcome his small hands.
Last edited:
Personally I think Johnny football will be the best qb coming out of this draft. Reality is their isnt a stand out qb from last draft to this draft and for the next few drafts. If he doesn't do good remember, we are talking about the browns here. To much blame goes on the qb when their is 21 other players who take the field. If he finds success everyone will be jumping on his ickD
There is no way JF is the best QB in this draft. AJ McCarron is 10x the QB JF is and although he did not go high, or even in the first round, he'll have a much longer NFL career and has but up MUCH BETTER numbers than JF can even dream about. All JF is is a flash in the pan marketing ploy. He will fail. QB's deserve the blame because they have the majority of the responsibility.
Mike I have to disagree a bit. While Tony Romo is far from a great QB, I think he could do much better if we had a defense that wasn't almost last in the league. Also if we had an offensive line that didn't force him to scramble through half the plays. While I'm not a huge fan of him, hes also not the worst choice in the league as far as QBs go. I would have to say if our secondary greatly improves, and he had a decent offensive line to work with, we would have had a much better chance last year. Yes the QB deserves his fair portion of the blame, but others need to share that blame as well.
Your confusing my statement. I'm not saying that the QB is the ONLY one that deserves blame, but a CB has one responsibility. An OL has one responsibility. QB's call plays, read receivers, audible, that's much more responsibility. That takes the ability to think and react quickly. There are many great QBs out there that can't run to save their lives but they're great QBs because they're smart and can think on their feet. Plus they have great OLs. I'm not a Romo fan but don't dislike him either. I do think he would need more than a good OL to make him stand out.
I agree, he under utilizes his weapons, and doesn't have very good field awareness. Which are two things that will only get worse as he goes in to his mid 30s, and continues to take the hits he gets from not having protection lol.
If any of you thought anyone other than Clowney would be 1st overall you need your head examined! What coach wants the liability of Johnny Football's ego? He flies by the seat of his pants and there are guys twice his size that are just as fast and agile in the NFL. Biggest surprise to me is AJ McCarron. Great decision maker and very balanced athlete, and results for days. Also his style lends itself to a long career in the NFL rather than these here today gone tomorrow rushing QB's who can't stay healthy for a full season.
Combine carries how much weight is to be determined…. Manziel had a great combine. He completed every throw he attempted in full pads. No other QB did that. But he goes late 1st. While AJ had a better career and not so stellar combine and goes early 2nd.
Clowney had a decent combine and goes #1. His one thing that made him look good was his 40 time.
Bridgewater isn't big enough?! How big is Drew Brees? Russell Wilson? Tom Brady is just 2" taller… I don't put a whole lot of merit into height after seeing Brees play like he does. Physical stature as far as weight and frame will come into play when he starts taking hits.
The kid is solid, he will do fine as he learns and adapts. Kurt Warner wore a glove in almost every single game late in his career with the Cardinals.
Mike, sometimes I think you like to argue just to argue. Relax a bit. Hear others points as well.
I agree. Clowney is a monster of an athlete. If he can prove his work ethic and really hit the ground running, the Texans will be nearly impossible to handle on the defensive side of the ball.
The combine carries weight but is not the sole source of capability. AJ has a mediocre combine but has a stellar career. JF has a great combine but a so-so career. AJ is a better all around QB and his NFL career will show that.
Clowney may have a good career as he is a stud. I am not 100% convinced he has the strong heart, but we will see.
Whether you like it or not Bridgewater is a smaller QB. Yes Drew Brees and Russel Wilson are smaller, as is Brett Favre and Jeff Garcia. But they are the exceptions to the rule and if given two QBs of the same capability, the bigger one will be the first choice. Tom Brady is 2" taller and out weighs him by at least 20lbs. Drew Brees plays well but lets examine his career. He's been playing since 2001 and has more than his share of struggles, some of which was a criticism of his size. Yes, he's over come those criticisms but there were still there and valid. Kurt Warner did not wear a glove in college nor did he wear one in the first 7 years of his career. He put the glove on to try and give himself and edge in the twilight of his career, not from the beginning.
KYS, I cannot believe your audacity. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. I am not arguing, I am making very valid points. Just because I'm not a "yes" man and agree with everything you say doesn't give me the propensity to argue. You have your opinion and I shared mine. When you say something I agree with I will agree with you as I did earlier in this post. I'm not a complete stranger to the game.
I hear your point but don't have to agree with it.
Mike, slow down. Every time someone makes a point to validate their beliefs on a Johhny Manziel or other player that isn't Bama related you tear them apart with stats. Be happy for these kids, you should never wish these guys flop at their jobs. Let's have a little more compassion then that! Do I like their antics on and off field? No, but I respect their play and what they have done with what they had. Here I am sticking up for a Louisville player! That is unheard of!
Bridgewater, love him or hate him….. will have a career in the NFL as a QB, he may even do great things. It will take time but he will develop well beyond some of those other guys. He will have a longer career then Tebow for sure. He has the weapons. When you get to turn the school part off and focus everything you have into your game, players develop at a faster rate. I think you will see a handful of these guys make a huge change. Go look up the draft slots of: Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Kurt Warner, Richard Sherman, or Shannon Sharpe. All very late draft picks that flourished into great players.
Johnny could transpire into a decent QB, but it will depend on who is around him protecting his back, and who is teaching him. A good friend of ours was drafted by the Browns and almost was crippled due to his OL sucking a fat one. Tim Couch, look him up. He was a great QB, physically blessed, and had great game knowledge.
His offensive line got him hurt multiple times and it ended his career.
You can hear my point, I appreciate that but I am giving you my opinion based on what I have seen, read, or been there to experience.
Adam, I'm not wound up by any means. And Bama has nothing to do with it. I've mentioned AJ McCarron because to use your words, love him or hate him, he's got 3 NC's under his belt, 2 of which was as a starter. That's a fact and undeniable. The fact he is from Alabama is just a blessing. "Tear them apart with stats", you men facts? I'm happy for many of the kids, including Bridgewater and I hope he does well. As I said earlier I do not have an axe to grind against him. But, the NFL isn't black and white and there are odds for and against success. Look at Tim Couch, physically the odds were in his favor, but the odds of his success were severely diminished because he had a bad OL. As far as JF goes I'm not going to respect him as there's nothing about him I respect either on or off the field. He's been lucky just as much as he's been "good" and the hype is nothing more than everyone jumping on the bandwagon to be the guy that says "I told you so". That's all the talking heads on ESPN are for is to pat each other on the back and agree with each other.
You're right about the QBs you mentioned as they did not go high, which is exactly why I think AJ isn't worried about not going first round. But on the other side of the coin there are just as many QBs and "stars" that were high first round pics and failed. All opinions including mine aside, only time will tell. We can speculate and put odds on success but when it comes down to it time will show us who is right and who is wrong.
To that point, the odds are against JF being successful. He's very short and light and his ability to run will be extremely diminished. His attitude and ego will not go over well too. Can he over come that and be successful? Sure, just like the horse with the highest odds can win the Derby, but are you going to put your money on it? Probably not.
I hear you. I'm not saying your points are not valid or they're incorrect, but they're different from mine and I'm going to discuss my counterpoints to yours. That's all this is.
Being originally from Upstate NY, and a huge Bills fan in the 90's, I remember all 4 of them.. all too well. Still, 4 in a row and the greatest comeback in NFL history made for some exciting years. I am hoping they will get back on top, it's been a long time coming. Hopefully they have enough sparks on offense to make it happen.
Jm had a better wonderlic score than Peyton manning, and everyone seems to think he is the standard for intelligence. Those of you who say jm doesn't have the intelligence are mistaken. For a "dumb hick" he sure seems to get a lot of attention. Seems pretty smart to me.
First, his Wonderlic score of 32 is not impressive. Sure it's better than PM's but it's also a lot worse than many other QB's. And Payton had a much better college career than JM. Next, you don't have to be "smart" to get attention, it's called marketing. Remember all the hype about Vince Young and what a stud he was? Yea, just about failed his Wonderlic so popularity and intelligence do not go hand in hand.
You have to remember Johnny F could have played 2 more years at college level, which I think would have been wise. No matter how skilled he is, his body is not what it would be in two more years. I think he will have injury problems because of that. If he inherits a good defensive line and doesn't try to run too much, maybe he can stay healthy. I wish him well.
How do you figure mannings career was better? Jm helped bring relevance to A&M (as an LSU fan that hurts to say). He was a winner in college. Will that translate to the NFL? Don't know. I do know that he will immediately sell tickets. In college, he could take over a game by himself. I know, there is a difference between the sec and NFL, but wouldn't you want a game changer with the pick instead of one who is not? By the way, manning didn't ever win the heisman, jm won it as a freshman.
You're kidding, right? Bring relevance to an irrelevant (A&M) program?? Congrats, he made a shitty program less shitty. That's a huge accomplishment, NOT. I'm not a Manning fan by any means but let's examine what Manning has done. He became Tennessee's all-time leading passer with 11,201 yards and 89 touchdowns and won 39 of 45 games as a starter, breaking the (SEC) record for career wins.[SUP][/SUP][SUP]
As a senior, Manning won numerous awards; he was a consensus first-team All-American, the Maxwell Award winner, the Davey O'Brien Award winner, the Johnny Unitas Award winner, and the Best College Player ESPY award winner. Not to mention he graduated in three years. Also, Manning was the polar opposite of JM when it came to attitude and class.
JM won the Heisman; nothing more than a popularity contest. Shall we name all the Heisman award winners that's fallen flat? Ever heard of the Heisman curse? Let's look at it. Prior to Tebow, Bradford, Newton and Griffin, you’ve got to look at a list of 18 quarterbacks who won the Heisman before you find one who really made it big. But even looking at the four I named looking closer Tebow has bombed, Griffin is on a slide down with incessant injury, Bradford is forcing people to cross their fingers in St. Louis and Newton is holding on...for now.
So IMO for a QB to get the Heisman is actually more of a curse than a benefit.
[/SUP]
If we are comparing the two, here are jm's awards.
College honors
Full-season awards and nominations
2012 Heisman Trophy winner (first freshman to win)[45]
2012 Davey O'Brien National Quarterback Award winner (first freshman to win)[46]
2012 Manning Award winner (first freshman to win)[5]
2012 First-team All-American by:
◦ Associated Press[47]
◦ Football Writers Association of America[48]
◦ Walter Camp Football Foundation[49]
◦ Sporting News[50]
◦ ESPN[51]
◦ CBS Sports[52]
◦ Scout.com[53]
◦ Sports Illustrated[54]
2012 Sporting News College Football Player of the Year[55]
2012 SEC Offensive Player of the Year[56]
2012 SEC Freshman of the Year[56]
2012 All-SEC First-Team Quarterback[56]
2013 Cotton Bowl Classic - Offensive MVP[57]
2012 ESPN.com All-Bowl Team[58]
2013 SEC Male Athlete of the Year[59]
2013 Chick-fil-A Bowl - Offensive MVP[60]
Mannings qb rating at Tennessee was 147.1. Jm's was 164.1. Manning passed for 11,201 yds (4 yrs) with a 62.5% while rushing for a staggering -183 yards while jm passed for 7820 yds (2 years) with a 68.9% while rushing for 2169 yds. Now I'm not saying jm will be a better pro. Just sayin he is not as bad as everyone says. And numbers don't lie, he has better collegiate stats than manning in a more talented sec.
College honors
Full-season awards and nominations
2012 Heisman Trophy winner (first freshman to win)[45]
2012 Davey O'Brien National Quarterback Award winner (first freshman to win)[46]
2012 Manning Award winner (first freshman to win)[5]
2012 First-team All-American by:
◦ Associated Press[47]
◦ Football Writers Association of America[48]
◦ Walter Camp Football Foundation[49]
◦ Sporting News[50]
◦ ESPN[51]
◦ CBS Sports[52]
◦ Scout.com[53]
◦ Sports Illustrated[54]
2012 Sporting News College Football Player of the Year[55]
2012 SEC Offensive Player of the Year[56]
2012 SEC Freshman of the Year[56]
2012 All-SEC First-Team Quarterback[56]
2013 Cotton Bowl Classic - Offensive MVP[57]
2012 ESPN.com All-Bowl Team[58]
2013 SEC Male Athlete of the Year[59]
2013 Chick-fil-A Bowl - Offensive MVP[60]
Mannings qb rating at Tennessee was 147.1. Jm's was 164.1. Manning passed for 11,201 yds (4 yrs) with a 62.5% while rushing for a staggering -183 yards while jm passed for 7820 yds (2 years) with a 68.9% while rushing for 2169 yds. Now I'm not saying jm will be a better pro. Just sayin he is not as bad as everyone says. And numbers don't lie, he has better collegiate stats than manning in a more talented sec.
I just mentioned a few, here are PM's:
[h=3]College awards[/h]
|
|
<tbody>
</tbody>
Now we can argue about the awards that weren't around in the early 90's, and we can argue about what awards are truly earned and which ones are popularity contests. I'm not even going to address rushing yards because QB is not a running position. It's ridiculous IMO to even mention rushing yards for a QB. Next, the passing percentage is misleading as you do not, and can not, claim how JM's would have been had he stayed in school for another 2 years.
Also, do you find it ironic that JM won the Manning Award named after all three Mannings including Peyton? Of course they have a JM award, it's called douche of the year.
We will revisit this thread annually just as I will with another who claimed Penn State would be a top 10 team again in three years. (two years ago)
Passing yards, completion percentage, qbr, rushing yards, are concrete. Can't be misleading. I'm just sayin, you don't have to like the guy, but respect what he did on the field. At the end of the day, time will judge us all on what we did, not whether we were liked.
"I'm not even going to address rushing yards because QB is not a running position"
Tell that to Auburn.
Tell that to Auburn.
Well I disagree. Take rushing yards for a QB. Yes, that number is concrete but how do you judge a QB by rushing yards? I do not have to respect the guy for what he did on the field, I'm not like the rest of the Kool Aid drinkers (That is not at you) and fall for the hype.
"I'm not even going to address rushing yards because QB is not a running position"
Tell that to Auburn.
I think the point Mike was trying to make is that QB is not a running position in the NFL. Running college QB's either learn quickly that they need to throw the ball in the NFL or they don't survive for long (RGIII).
Not to get too off topic, but the NFL boneyard is littered with most Former Heisman winners, not just QB's. Most of them either don't make it in the NFL or they have mediocre careers. I never heard of many of the good NFL QB's when they were in college.
As for Johnny Football, we will see. Cleveland is a tough place to start one's football career. Just ask Trent Richardson.
Similar threads
