Join me on my EPIC AR accuracy journey! From reloading to bullet hole @600yards! WITH PICS

[elfster1234]

<span style="color: #330099">Other links to get the most out of your AR:</span>
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...00yard-semi-auto-6group-30round-shootout.html
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...0yard-semi-auto-6groups-30round-shootout.html
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...on-red-dot-6xmax-only-king-hill-shootout.html
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ic-info-ar-101-7-62-lmt-mws-example-pics.html
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...t-semi-auto-precision-shooters-reloaders.html
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...learning-experiences-live-learn-pictures.html
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...08476-bye-bye-bi-pod-hello-mega-benchbag.html
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...chargemaster-optional-pen-straw-mod-pics.html
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ing-scopes-when-mounted-pics.html#post2680977



***************************************************************
First and foremost.. This is me reloading for MY LMT MWS semi-auto....!! NOT YOU reloading for your semi auto AR-10 or whatever rifle!! I'm in no way telling you this is right or wrong... Hell, I'm not even telling you that you should even use this info.... This is just what I do with MY LMT MWS / AR's!!... Take this info as you want. Those reloading for bolt actions will need to do more homework above and beyond this thread if you don't want to full length resize and do neck only!! Also, the amount of shoulder bump back is different for a bolt action in comparison to a semi auto. I am in no way telling you to follow this thread! Everyone has their own way of doing things.
***************************************************************

EDIT 07/11/13, the AR-15 5.56 accuracy journey with my rock river arms varmint rifle was just added below the original post!

***************************************************************


This is "MY" EPIC AR ACCURACY JOURNEY that starts in my reloading room with components & will end up on the 600yard range with my LMT MWS and two total 5shot groups...... YOUR journey starts with YOU and your own methods! What I'm sharing with you right now is my life experiences / knowledge reloading for my AR's & trying to get the most out of the semi-auto AR platform.... That is what this thread is all about. Please join me on my quest for the perfect 5shot group. Sit back and relax & enjoy the show. It starts right now......

This is where the show starts. My AR rifles & my reloading room of fun.....

I like to purchase my once fired lake city 7.62x51 brass in lots of 500pcs or 1000pcs. I will NOT prep the entire batch of 500 to 1000pcs of brass in one shot... I'll usually pull 51 to 101pcs of brass in small batches at a time (as bullets usually come in 100pc boxes). This makes it easy to keep track of my number of fires on that batch of brass reloaded & also if I need to make small adjustments on the next batch of 51 to 101pcs reloaded down the road. I'll store my brass in zip lock bags and mark those zip lock bags with magic marker as shown in these pics (very important in order to keep track the # of times the brass has been reloaded & other general information)... Also, the more sealed & less air in the zip lock bag = less tarnishing of brass! The amount of times you can reload this brass is up to you! It is very important to keep an eye on over pressure signs, case head separation, cracked necks, blah blah blah = time for YOUR HOMEWORK!

***************************************************************

First and foremost, make sure the battery in your calipers is good and fresh. Maybe even measure an item you know is 100% true to test your calipers before you start. Attach the hornady headspace guage to your calipers and zero the calipers on the headspace guage.

HORNADY HEADSPACE GUAGE HERE: Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Gage 5 Bushing Set Comparator

***************************************************************

The once fired lake city 7.62x51 brass I purchased online is usually fired out of a military grade semi-auto / full auto & will usually arrive at your front door step with a HUGE headspace measurement as shown in the picture below........ The weapon this brass was fired out of typically has a very generous headspace chamber to insure function and reliability so their are no issues on the field of battle. Make note in the below (not resized yet by me) once fired military 7.62 brass picture in MY headspace gauge shows a HUGE 1.6385 measurement!! I have measured some 1F military brass well over 1.64!!

note the HUGE headspace measurement of this 1fired brass I purchased online!

***************************************************************

 

[elfster1234]

This is a picture of brass JUST FIRED OUT OF MY LMT MWS!! Brass that is fired out of my LMT MWS damn near 99.99% always has a headspace measurement with MY hornady headspace guage (MY HEADSPACE GAUGE, NOT YOUR HEADSPACE GAUGE) of 1.631

As for me with a new 7.62 nato chamber rifle, I like to use FACTORY 7.62x51 American eagle nato ammo & fire that out of my new rifle to figure out what my fired brass datum measurement is for the first time. Maybe even mix in some other factory brands and even some .308 factory ammo to see what my new rifle produces for a headspace measurement out of my rifle. It gives me a good starting point.

Each rifle will have a slightly different headspace measurement on the brass that was just fired out of that rifle used.

Everyone has their own way of doing things when it comes to this process. This is just what I do personally. I like to bump MY brass back .004 with a .001 +/- range (as you can never get it perfect every single time you size a pc of brass) FOR SEMI-AUTO (not bolt action). If brass is fired out of MY LMT MWS with a headspace measurement of 1.631, then I'll try to bump that shoulder back .004,,,,,,,, so my finished FULL LENGTH sized brass ends up with a headspace datum target measurement of 1.627 (min 1.626 to max 1.628 range).

brass fired out of MY LMT MWS!

brass that was fired out of my LMT MWS in the hornady headspace guage!

***************************************************************

As for me and MY LMT MWS, my target headspace measurement is 1.627 with a .004 bump back from 1.631 as shown above!

***************************************************************


IF YOU EVER WONDERED what the headspace of some FACTORY AMMO is... Well here you go! ((((MAKE NOTE THAT THIS IS WITH MY HEADSPACE GUAGE, NOT YOURS!!!!))))

This is American eagle (federal) nato 7.62x51 FACTORY ammo headspace of 1.6265

This is Hornady .308 soft point hunting FACTORY ammo headspace of 1.624

***************************************************************


Ok, this is where is all starts! First things first, you need to clean the 1F brass you just purchased so it is clean enough to be FULL LENGTH resized. Making sure you have clean brass will make the resizing process easy & will keep your FULL LENGTH resizing dies clean. I personally like to use stainless steel media with a thumlers thumbler model#B for cleaning my dirty brass. If you're NOT using stainless steel to clean brass, then IMO you're are missing out... It will cost you more to get going, but you will never need to purchase media again saving you money in the long run & the results using SS media is AMAZING!!!

protect your drain from SS media!!

dump the 1F brass you purchased into the tumbler with #5lb of SS media... I personally like to use only high concentrate dish soap (nice big squirt & purchased for $1 from the dollar store) with HOT water on the first initial cleaning of the brass (make note that you will need to re-clean the brass AFTER you resize it = then I use both soap & lemishine). This is the first cleaning JUST enough to get the brass resized!!!:

fill water up to about 1/2 to 3/4.... DON'T over fill your thumbler with too much water & too much brass = dead tumbler!

Personally, just to get the brass clean enough to be FULL LENGTH resized, I start the first cleaning with 45min on the tumbler. NOTE the rubber mat the tumbler sits on to help keep the vibration down to a minimum! $2 for the rubber mat from walmart!

 

[elfster1234]

After 45min of initial cleaning JUST ENOUGH to get the brass clean to be resized, I'll dump all of the water / SS media / and brass into my home-made stainless steel pin media separator ($2 plastic strainer & $2 popcorn bowl from walmart, & drilled extra holes just smaller than .223 brass into the white stainer & burned off plastic burs with a lighter to help speed up the process).

why talk, pictures are worth 1,000words!

using an airhose MASSIVELY increases the drying time... like almost instant! well, damn near.

 

[elfster1234]

Now it is time to get your LUBE on once your brass is dry!!! make note on the dry part!!! You need to lube your brass BEFORE you resize it so your brass doesn't get stuck in your resizing die (duh!).. you will quickly find out in a hurry if you didn't use lube OR too little when your brass gets stuck in your die & you need to use a "stuck brass" remover (been there before). I actually purchased another $2 popcorn bowl for LUBE ONLY! I'll put a small dab of imperial sizing wax (A MUST HAVE IMO) in the palm of my hand, then spray the brass with spray lube WHILE working the brass with the hand that has the small dab of wax in the palm. DON'T use too much LUBE! It is possible! This isn't happy time in your special place with a white sock for Christ sakes.... Make sure the lube is somewhat dry before you start resizing the brass... Once again, Picture is worth a 1,000words.

 

[elfster1234]

OK, I'M TELLING YOU RIGHT NOW.... DON'T USE THIS INFORMATION! this is what I do with MY LMT MWS!!.... This shit is up to you to figure out. So get out YOUR books and do some homework before you do ANYTHING!! This is my LMT MWS accuracy journey so get on your own f#cking boat before I kick your ass off of my boat!!! LOL!

OK, I use a hornady LNL auto progressive press. Yes, you can use a single stage, but I also reload for 9mm, 40sw, 45acp, and .223 / 5.56 so a progressive press is a must have for me. Also, IMO, you can totally get 100% spot on accurate RIFLE match grade ammo out of a progressive press. IMO, progressive is the way to go especially for those with pistols. Blah blah blah blah blah blah.... insert bitching and flaming by others here....

IMO, when it comes to reloading just like rifles. BUY ONCE, CRY ONCE! I did stupid amounts of research to purchase my reloading equipment $hit that produced the most bang for the buck IMO.

Now, with that out of the way... TIME TO RESIZE this $hit!!!

First things first, you need to set up the decap pin about 3/16" to damn near 1/4" past the bottom of the resizing die. Every press is different.

I have a hornady LNL progressive press, so shell plate#1 is in place. Note the 2" wide block of wood I use as per the hornady video that comes with your press.

On your FIRST and every ~20th pc of brass I will use some imperial wax inside the case mouth with a Q-Tip in order to keep the decap pin LUBED.

Make note that before I start re-sizing the brass that my purchased 1F brass that came in the mail had a headspace of 1.6385!! I need to bump this down to 1.627 as discussed before!

When you FIRST SET UP your re-sizing die, you will need to raise the ram until the bottom of the die just lightly kisses / touches the shellplate. Then lower the ram and insert a non-sized LUBED pc of brass and raise the ram / brass into the re-sizing die to start the resizing process. JUST MAKE SURE IT IS LUBED BRASS or you will quickly learn how to use a "stuck brass" remover.

It can kinda be a pain in the ass FIRST SETTING up your re-sizing die. Once your re-sizing die is set up you will not need to go through this BS again. Notice on this FIRST test pc run of brass that we have successfully bumped the brass from 1.6385 to 1.6305, so I'll keep screwing DOWN the re-sizing die by VERY SMALL INCREMENTS until I reach my desired datum shoulder measurement of 1.627ish as discussed before. When re-sizing brass IT IS ALL ABOUT KEEPING A CONSISTANT PULL ON HANDLE / PREASURE when you raise the ram to the top. I like to somewhat slightly over-cam my ram just so my ram touches bottoms out IN ORDER TO KEEP A CONSISTANT HEADSPACE SHOULDER BUMP-BACK!! DO NOT push down on the handle too hard... Each press will be different.

almost there, keep going!

screw down die just a tad, and re-run brass until you reach your desired headspace measurement!

presto! my desired headspace of 1.627" for MY LMT MWS (NOT YOURS = time for homework)!! notice in the pic below I'm lightly spinning the brass in the headspace gauge with my two fingers until my measurement is consistent on the caliper read-out (you'll know what I'm talking about when you try it yourself with practice)..... Don't over turn / twist the brass in the gauge and wear out the insert! BTW, try not to get lube all over your calipers! LOL

 

[elfster1234]

Once you reach your desired shoulder bump set back, LOCK THAT SHIT DOWN so you don't need to go through that BS again (test another pc of brass just to make sure before you lock the allen ring, but make note you might need to run newly purchased 1F brass twice, maybe 3 times)! Always double check the headspace of each pc of brass resized (at least I do) just to make sure your bump back is staying consistent = improved accuracy... Once your die is set up & locked into place you might notice that NEW once fired brass you purchase online might need to be ran through the die more than once (it is a LOT to bump back in one shot & brass kinda "springs back" a little)........ Brass being resized that is fired out of your rifle usually only needs one run through the die as in my example it's only a .004 bump..... ALWAYS DOUBLE, TRIPLE, BLAH BLAH CHECK when it comes to reloading. It is all about safety. Every press is different.. This is just something you need to figure out on your own!

************************************************** *************

First things first, Always rinse your stainless steel media pins before & after you wash your brass = so your brass doesn't tarnish (just fill up tumbler with water and mix up stainless steel with hand and empty dirty water, just be careful as a pin or two might float on top of the soapy water). And before you ask, yes you store your SS media wet in your tumbler and you do NOT need to dry the SS media when not in use...

Now that all of your brass is re-sized it is time to get that LUBED up brass back into the wash so it is looking like new again (2ND BRASS CLEANING RUN). I usually do my 2nd RUN through the washer for about 2-1/2 hours until the primer pockets are 100% clean! Wash with HOT water and rinse in COLD water (so brass doesn't tarnish)!! This is where I use a big squirt of high concentrated dish soap ($1 from dollar store) and teaspoon of lemishine ($2.50 from walmart).

((((SEE PREVIOUS STEPS ABOVE DURING THE FIRST ROUND OF CLEANING & DRYING BRASS WITH STAINLESS STEEL MEDIA / AIRHOSE!!))))

2-1/2 HOURS LATER, wow look at that brass!

************************************************** *************

ALWAYS HAVE SAFETY GLASSES ON WHILE IN THE RELOADING ROOM! DUH!

Now its time to trim that shit down. Brass will grow in length (sometimes) when it is re-sized. As for .308 / 7.62x51 I like to shoot for a trimmed brass length of 2.005 with a range of .001 +/- ........ No less than 2.004 & no more than 2.006...... It is damn near impossible to get every single pc of brass @ 2.005 unless you are a massive perfectionist. What ever trim length you pick (TIME FOR YOUR HOMEWORK!), trick is not to go under 2.000, and not to go over 2.009. Max trim length according to hornady manual for .308 is 2.010......... Everyone likes to trim their brass to different lengths.... I like 2.005" as per the hornady manual, but this is TOTALLY UP TO YOU!!!!... I LOVE THE WORLD'S FINEST TRIMMER ($70 off midwayusa) for doing .308 and .223... Once you set up the W.F.T. with the allen screw (when you first get it), it is seriously just like sharpening a pencil and stupid fast!

before being trimmed, WOW TOO LONG!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KNOLN0ByH8

ahhhhhh, just right! 2.005!

 

[elfster1234]

You are not done with brass prep yet! When you first get military crimped primer brass you will need to either SWAGE or CUT out the primer crimp when you first get it. YOU CAN NOT seat primers until you get this done!!! Some brass has crimped primers while some does not. Swager is better for solving this crimped primer pocket issue, but I do not have it yet SO I cut mine out with my case prep center as shown in these pictures. It has worked 100% for me with no blown primer pockets or issues.... This is where you might need to do some of your own homework! Picture is worth a 1000 words...

CRIMPED PRIMERS SUCK! cut or swage the crimped primer. Swage is better, easier, and faster if you can afford it.

Pic of crimped primer pocket

Cutting out crimp & don't over do this part (swage if possible!), keep brass straight as possible. Don't over do this part or you will end up with a bunch of crap brass!

Ream out crimp after the crimp is cut out. This will help smooth out the cut process above.

Primer pocket uniformer.

No more crimp and uniformed primer pocket. Do NOT over uniform, you want primer to eventually seat just below flush!!

you still need to SLIGHTLY bevel the inside of the case mouth (so the copper jacket doesn't get ripped off when seating the bullet), and SLIGHTLY remove all burs from the outside of the case mouth (so you don't damage your rifle's chamber)... DO NOT over do this process! Fine line of TOO much and TOO little.

Notice the very small bevel inside the case mouth! Do NOT over do this as it will weaken the case mouth = cracked neck!

 

[elfster1234]

Time to seat some primers baby! You can screw around with the flash hole if you want, but I've found the stainless steel media cleaning process takes care of this for you! (ANOTHER REASON WHY SS MEDIA ROCKS!)........ The key to seating primers is to keep the entire primer shuttle and primer seater area clean! It only takes one spec of powder or whatever to shut the whole process down. This is where you will find out if you swaged / cut out the primer crimp correctly as described above.

ahhhhhh, just how I like my primers! just below flush!! NOT TOO much! NOT TOO little! Just right! Always do a table top test with your primers! If you sit your brass on a nice flat surface and it wobbles, then your primer is sticking out too far = SLAM FIRE IN YOUR FACE = DANGEROUS! Inspect EVERY SINGLE primer seated!! DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK!

 

[elfster1234]

Before I drop powder I like to double check what OGIVE bullet seating depth I'm going to use. Some like to seat by COAL (cartridge over all length). I personally like to seat bullets by OGIVE, or where the secant radius of the bullet touches the lands of the rifling inside your barrel. I also think this produces much more consistent readings as the tips of each bullet at not always perfect!! This is where you need to do your OWN HOMEWORK! I like to use the hornady OAL gauge and bullet comparator as shown in the video below..... EACH BULLET WILL PRODUCE A DIFFERENT OGIVE MEASUREMENT, AND EACH RIFLE WILL PRODUCE A DIFFERENT OGIVE MEASUREMENT! Some people with SEMI-AUTO's will just seat bullets to MAGAZINE LENGTH, but I DO NOT like to do this as I have had 1 particular bullet (sierra gameking 165 bthp) that was NOT ONLY way under magazine length, BUT also well under sierras' recommended COAL and this was with my LMT MWS!! If I would've used sierra's recommended COAL with the gameking bullet as described above WITHOUT using the hornady OAL gauge / bullet comparator set, then the gameking bullet when chambered with my LMT MWS would not only be pushed into the rifling, but also pushed back into the brass = NOT GOOD for my LMT MWS or ME!!

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/570611/hornady-lock-n-load-overall-length-gage-bolt-action
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/45...rall-length-gage-modified-case-308-winchester
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/724733/hornady-lock-n-load-bullet-comparator-insert-308-diameter
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/23...ad-bullet-comparator-basic-set-with-6-inserts

Today I'm reloading 168 Hornady Amax bullets. THEY ARE WAY BAD ASS!

WITH MY LMT MWS semi-auto rifle ONLY (my rifle, not yours!),,,,, the hornady 168 Amax bullet produces a MAXIMUM OGIVE measurement of 2.212" (touching the lands) using the straight (not curved, yes it does work in a AR-10 but is very close) hornady OAL gauge / bullet comparator set. I like to use the string end of a bore snake to kick the bullet back off the lands if it gets stuck (works every single time). Being that my OGIVE maximum measurement as described above is 2.212", and I would like to do a bullet jump to the lands (MORE HOMEWORK FOR YOU, GOOGLE TIME) of .020", then I will then seat my bullet with an OGIVE measurement of 2.192"

Some bullets will require more jump / more seating depth as you need to get the finished ammo round into the magazine! This is called reloading to MAG LENTH (more homework for you!).... The amount of bullet jump is totally up to you = YOUR HOMEWORK!

Once I figure out a particular bullet / rifle combo MAXIMUM OGIVE "TOUCHING THE LAND" SEATING DEPTH, I'll write that info on an index card and tape it to the wall (see picture at the start the OP) so I don't need to go through this BS again....

I like to use the string end of a bore snake to knock the bullet off the lands = no damaged crown!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phQdxDwe804

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llvsEsaK8-M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCPgKNp8i7o

************************************************** *************

Today, I'm dropping 42.2 grains of varget powder which produces damn near 2600fps out of my LMT as we will be shooting out to 600yards today. If I was shooting only at 100yards, then I might jump down to my lower "powder drop node / pet load" of only 40.5 grains of varget as this will save me $varget$, easier on the brass, doesn't over-gas my LMT MWS, and is actually more accurate... BUT, being that I'm shooting WAY OUT TO 600yards, then I'm going to use my higher accuracy "pet load" of 42.2 grains varget so I'm not running out of scope turret clicks / MOA & to help stabilized my bullet due to the longer distance I'm shooting at later today.... RELOADING DATA IS TOTALLY UP TO YOU! DO NOT, LET ME REPEAT, DO NOT USE ANY OF THIS INFORMATION! DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK HERE! NO SCREWING AROUND!!! Always calibrate the scale, and then zero out the pan. I'm using what they call the "McDonald Straw" mod on my RCBS chargemaster. Note my folded up anti-static motherboard bag under my scale to keep the static down to a minimum!! I'll keep a plastic spoon around for any OVER / UNDER drop charges from the chargemaster. I like to check the inside of my brass with a light BEFORE and AFTER I drop my powder. Name of the game with reloading is triple check everything. Yes, before you ask, the chargemaster ROCKS!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-DRJCL0D3A

Double checking empty brass before I drop powder with flash light. This is especially important for pistol brass as I have seen stuck stainless steel pins inside the brass!

double checking powder full brass before I seat bullets with flash light... doesn't hurt to make sure each one is full and to make sure all levels look even across the board!

 

[elfster1234]

Now that I have what OGIVE seating depth I'm going to use ((as described above)) & all of our powder has been dropped into our brass, I can now seat the AMAX bullets with my "redding national match die set" seating die (read your seating die manual)..... WOW! what a process I've gone through so far just to get to this point! Sheeessshh! As for me and my LNL progressive press, I will NOT use the progressive cycle of my press (FOR RIFLE AMMO) and will do each round manually turning my press into somewhat of a single stage press. I like to manually remove the rounds once seated in order to keep the uniformity of the seated bullet.

((((((READ THE POST ABOVE)))))
setting up the bullet comparitor

read your friggen manual on how to set up your seating die for the love of god! sheessh

FINISHED 7.62X51 168grn AMAX AMMO BABY!! (sorry, card in PIC should say 2.192 & not 2.193 OGIVE). Just a note when seating bullets. You might get a small range on each seated bullet OGIVE measurement. If going for 2.192 as in my example, then the next one you reload might be +/- .001 which is OK in my book. Trick is, once you finalize your FIRST seated bullet, DO NOT change the seating depth (at least that is what I do)... Some like to crimp & some do not..... I do not like to crimp my bullets (as long as I have good neck tension), unless it is my hunting ammo and then I'll put a very very light kiss of a crimp on my bullets for when I unload / reload.... Crimp or no crimp on your bullets IS UP TO YOU (more homework time)!!!! Time to do your OWN HOMEWORK!

Holy shit, these AMAX bad boys damn near don't fit in my PMAG! Wow, it is one tight fit & just the way I like it! Yes, this is pretty much reloading to magazine length, but I know for a fact I'm getting a .020 bullet jump (as described above) with my hornady OAL gauge / bullet comparator which is repeatable for future reloading OR if I want to adjust the jump to say .025! Consistency = accuracy = repeatability! OK, lets go shoot this $hit!! Join me on my LMT MWS accuracy adventure @ the 600yard range!!!

BEFORE I take off to the range I'm going to check my IPAD ballistics app for shooting this particular reloaded ammo @ 600yards & current weather conditions (while I'm connected to the internet at my house & range is just outside of town) so I'm close to bullseye & not wasting all of this $$$ammo$$$ and time!!! It is a nice tool to have. I'll make adjustments for wind at the range.

Estimated bullet drop, velocity, and energy of my newly reloaded ammo using the 168amax bullets @ 2600fps.... Damn! my 168amax bullet @ 600yards will still have more velocity & energy than a 44magnum at point blank range = one dead ass deer! Nice! Also, my bullet will have dropped a tad over 80" @ 600yards. Interesting numbers! I have found that the key to making sure your output numbers are correct is having the correct scope sight height entered. To figure out sight height open the bolt with a empty magazine locking the bolt back, and measure with calipers from the firing pin to the middle of the scope.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjVT1qVenvE&feature=player_embedded

 

[elfster1234]

OK!!! now that we have some kick ass match grade ammo, lets test this $hit on the 600yard range! Hell yeah! (this is seriously the same ammo reloaded above so you could go on this journey with me, and the 10 shots I took on the targets shown below... no cherry picking targets here.... I'm a man of my word and I've always said post your information regardless of the outcome, so that is what I did)...


600 YARDS! make note of my red neck brass catcher! LOL! Too funny! It works though! Get something to catch your brass so it is easy to find (because this brass is costing you damn near ~.25cents per DUH!) and also so your brass does NOT get damaged! Also! Put a small pc of velcro (fuzzy part of velcro) on your brass deflector so the body of your brass does NOT get damaged!

Lets go set up my target at the 600yard mark!

Before I even left the house I ran my reload information & today's current weather conditions on my IPAD "ballistics" app. My vortex viper PST 4-16x50 FFP scope (which is bad ass BTW) has 1/4moa clicks FYI. The ballistics app I ran at home before I hit the range (as described above) showed a MOA (minute of angle) elevation adjustment of 13moa up (52 clicks). Scope is now adjusted & I just took 5shots, lets go see how I did!

Not too darn bad for a SEMI-AUTO @ 600yards with a little bit of wind. 5shots @ 600yards! It is about a 5-1/2" group @ 600yards, which would be 5.5 / 6.282 = .8755 moa!!! Not too darn bad!! Lets go try that again.

I noticed I was a little high and to the right on that last group. The fact that my group is a little high in comparison to what my ballistics app showed could be anything from entering the information wrong such as bullet velocity feet-per-second @ muzzle incorrect #'s OR the fact I'm actually shooting down hill just a tad (many variables to take into consideration here).... This is something I need to work on. I've now adjusted my scope elevation down & for the fact the very small amount of wind today (about 4 to 5mph) blew my group location to the right of bullseye about ~6 to 7" (wind plays such a huge factor here)........ My scope is 1/4moa per click, so at 600yards each click would be about ~1.5" per click!! I've now adjusted my scope to 12.5moa up (50clicks), and 1.25moa left (5clicks). I just took another 5shots, lets go see how I did!

Nice! I'm more on the 10x bullseye!!! but my group size opened up a little bit so you can't win them all! Oh well, its all part of the fun. Still, not too bad of a group considering the fact this is 600yards with other factors like wind and mirage. It is right around 1MOA group size. I'll take that! Lets head home and check out the headspace on the fired brass that was just ejected out of my LMT MWS semi-auto rifle...

Now that I'm back home lets check the headspace of the ammo I just reloaded and fired @ the 600yard range. LOOK AT THAT! The shoulder I bumped back to 1.627 during the reloading process is right back to 1.631 !! Well, I guess I better just do the whole reloading process back over again! It's a never ending reloading cycle! yeah! Either you love it or you hate it... LOL!

************************************************** *************

The AMAX 168grn ammo I reloaded above cost break down:

There is 7000grains in 1pound of powder FYI.

When possible I try to purchase varget powder in 8lbs buckets in order to keep the price down @ $170.00 per 8lbs with tax. This means I'm paying $21.25 per pound. If there is 7000grains in 1pound of powder, and I'm reloading the above example reload at 42.2grains of varget, then the math would be 7000grains divided by 42.2grains per drop = about ~166 powder drops out of 1pound of powder (when reloading at 42.2grains per).... If I'm getting 166charges out of 1lbs of powder, then my cost per charge would be $21.25 per pound divided by 166 charges = about ~.13cents per drop of powder @ 42.2grains. With that said:

100count box 168 amax bulets $30 = .30 each
100count box primers $3 = .03 each
1fired lake city 7.62 brass per 500 is $120 = .24 each
and my powder drop charge cost as described above = .13 per drop
SO FINISHED ROUND INCLUDING BRASS = .70CENTS EACH or $14dollars per 20round box comparison

THEN EVERY RELOAD AFTER THIS MATH YOU OBVIOUSLY JUST DEDUCT THE BRASS COST = .46CENTS EACH or $9.20dollars per 20round box comparison.

 

[elfster1234]

Have a nice day! The end............................

OMG! I'm done! finally! Sheeesshh..

I hope you all enjoyed the thread. It took loads of my time and money to get this done but it is better than everyone sending me PM's left / right / and center about what I do with my LMT MWS.

I'm in NO WAY telling you to follow this thread & do what I do. Read those BOOKS and do your own homework & develop your OWN techniques. This is just what I do with MY LMT MWS......

The rest is in your hands!

BTW, just to get on paper at 600yards so I wasn't wasting rounds I loaded this IPAD ballistics APP (before I hit the range) just to get an idea how much MOA elevation (minutes of angle) I needed to DOPE my scope to @ 600yards with my reloaded ammo #'s..... I started out @ 13 minutes of angle (on my scope would be 52 clicks up!!!).... The windage I played by ear out on the range. I just got this program FYI and I'm still learning all of the details (massively detailed APP),,, but it was close enough for my first group @ 600yards as in my picture shown above on the 5shot group#1! My actual MOA adjustment was 12.5moa on the second group! Not too darn bad knowing I'd hit paper before I even left my house & took a shot. The APP worked great for this 600yard range. There is a LOT to this IPAD app and it will take time for me to learn it all. The one thing I noticed with this APP is making sure your scope/sight height input # is correct (open up bolt of AR with empty magazine to hold back bolt and use calipers to measure from fire-pin to middle of scope) or ALL of your output #'s will be f#cked up! App is only as smart as the #'s you enter!

Still tweaking the #'s and learning how to use the APP, but it was close enough to get me on paper so I wasn't wasting ammo. Final MOA adjustment ended up being 12.5 MOA UP, with 1.25 MOA LEFT for the 2nd 5shot group if memory serves me correct. Make note that my bullet dropped damn near 83" @ 600yards!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjVT1qVenvE



100yards, 11 out of 12, 5shot groups, 60 total bullets, are sub-moa on one pc of paper @ different varget powder drop rates (somewhat modified OCW test)... All shot in a row:

100yards LMT MWS:

300yards LMT MWS:

Must have items! Note the "non-chlorinated" break cleaner that I purchase in bulk size for $2!!! great for cleaning dies & to take off black magic marker off zip lock bags so you can re-use them! Dry lube is an also must have especially if you reload for pistol for the progressive powder drop. One shot drylube from hornady is awesome, but I've switched over to the much large and less expensive $2 price tag of the liquid wrench dry lube (great for dies & progressive powder drop for reloading pistols). Try not to get too much of this stuff on rubber rings! CLP does just about everything from oil press, to cleaning your rifle. Grease gun is 100% needed for your reloading press!

 

[smschulz]

I'm not quite getting the whole 'UC save spot' thing?

 

[elfster1234]

This is just WHAT I DO.. not saying it is perfect & what you should do, but it has helps me out big time in terms of getting small ass groups as a recreational AR target shooter looking for high quality & cheap targets. One thing I hate doing is spending too much money on targets.

In my opinion, there is soooooooo much truth this statement. AIM SMALL, MISS SMALL when it comes to shooting for bug hole size 5shot groups.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbtA0TIyoI8

Yes, I know. It is kinda corny with the whole movie thing and all, but I've found that using the correct size target (aim small miss small) for the correct yardage you're shooting at (depending on you scope's max magnification), MAKES A HUGE IMPACT on your group size (well, for me it does). Yes, everyone does things differently, but this is just what I do especially as a recreational target shooter looking for inexpensive targets that are fast to make.

As for me & my LMT MWS with a vortex 4-16x50 scope, it is damn near 100% of the time @ 16x full power (for shooting groups between 100yards and beyond) unless I'm deer hunting, then it goes all the way back down to 4x as I'm hunting in Wisconsin woods and it is rare to shoot a deer over 75yards & it might be on the move. This is also where my RTS back up iron sights really come into play with my LMT in terms of deer hunting.... ANYWAY... I never really target shoot under 100yards unless it is with my rock river 5.56 with a red dot. Every scope / rifle combo has it's own purpose.

With that out of the way I really like shooting ROUND targets as they don't give a shit if my target is level or not.

With my 4-16x50 scope on the 16x setting, in my opinion a 1" circle @ 100yards is just about perfect. The 1" dot @ 100yards with my scope @ 16xpower is not too small that my crosshairs will cover it up, BUT is JUST BIG ENOUGH to make out the circle with my crosshairs knowing I'm dead center. I personally like to use a color (red, blaze orange, or blaze pink, and maybe black) on white paper so I can make out the perfect "4 pieces of pie" that my crosshairs cuts the round target into 1/4's (if that makes sense to you), this way I know I'm dead center nuts on 100% all of the time. IMO, it would really be hard to know for a fact if I'm dead center nuts on @ 100yards with the above example if my round target was a HUGE 8" in size round circle (OK, this is where you insert bitching and flaming by other bad ass know it all shooters)....

Now, with my vortex PST FFP 4-16x50 scope, in which I like to shoot 1" circles @ 100yards, then all you need to do is double the circle size for every 100yards. For example, if I like shooting 1" circles @ 100yards, then it would be 2" @ 200yards, 3" @ 300yards, 4" @ 400yards, 5" circle @ 500yards, 6" circle @ 600yards, blah blah blah.. You get the idea right???... NOW, if I'm testing my 3gun DPMS 3G1 AR rifle with a vortex 1-4 power scope set at the 4x power & I like using 1" circles @ 100yards with my LMT's vortex 16x scope, then 16power divided by 4power = 4 times 1" = 4" size target circle @ 100yards for my DPMS 3G1 with a 1-4 power scope on the 4x power setting! If 4" circle target for my 3G1 with a 4x max power scope is perfect @ 100yards, then it would be 8" @ 200yards... it really is just that simple...

Now, I HATE spending money on targets. I personally like to keep my targets for future reloading information & if I get some good groups on my target I'll actually write that reloading information right on the target for future inspection / reference. Because of this, I like to shoot really heavy duty paper. Really thick craft type paper.

With that said, THE $1 STORE IS YOUR FRIEND when it comes to making targets. I really like shooting white paper so I can see my little .223 / 5.56 bullet holes @ 300yards with my 60x spotting scope. If the paper was black, then you would never see these small holes in your spotting scope unless you're using stupid expensive shoot-n-see targets. The HUGE 2'x3' ultra thick white paper in the picture below costs me .50cents per... You can get a boat load of 1" circles on that huge 2'x3' pc of paper, or cut the paper up for smaller targets. All of the items in the picture below (other than the .50cent 2'x3' paper) costs $1!! Also, they do sell a 2'X3' BLACK COLORED 1/4" thick foam core cardboard that I'll use as a backer for my white 2'x3' targets @ 300yards so my bullet holes REALLY STAND OUT in my spotting scope. This black 2'x3' target backer board can be re-used numerous times!

This is the $3.75 dollar circle stencil I purchased from Jo-Ann fabrics & craft store. It has 1", 1-1/2", 2", 2-1/2", 3", 3-1/2", and 4" circles! This damn near covers all possible target sizes I might need from 0yards up to damn near 500yards! Using the cheap markers I got at the $1 store, and I can make any size/color circle I want. Just a little tip, put the target circles ON THE GLOSSY SIDE OF THE PAPER as it will use much much less marker & is much faster & easier to spot with your spotting scope. The stencil also has 1/2" marks on the side if you want to find the dead center of a much larger 4" target (as in the example picture with 4" red circle with 1" black circle in the middle)... The staple gun I purchased at harbor freight on sale for $5!! and is really heavy duty!

Making sure you put some real thought into the purpose of your AR rifle when picking your scope or red dot can make a HUGE DIFFERENCE. Every rifle has it's own purpose and making sure you don't waste good money on bad choices sucks ass obviously. This is where you insert bitching and flaming by others, BUT IMO, if you're going for a precision AR that will shoot bug hole groups at what ever yardage, then you better be rocking a minimum 14x scope. Red dots & 1-4power scopes are great and all, but I've found that they obviously have a quick target purpose only and you will not be happy with a red dot / 1-4power scope @ 100yards & beyond for shooting bug hole size groups. Red dots are great for fast target shooting, hog hunting, law enforcement, or on the field of battle (spray and pray type stuff).... I love my vortex viper PST FFP 4-16x50. Not only do I use it deer hunting on the 4x power while in my tree stand, but it can stretch it's legs on the 600yard range at max 16xpower. It really is all about the purpose of your rifle.

I hope this helps! Send me a PM with any questions you might have.

My AR's. Your rifle and scope selection is really all about purpose. Make the right choice!!!!

 

[elfster1234]

OK .223 / 5.56 AR-15 boys and gals, I didn't forget about you!

**********************************************************
Same deal as above, this is ME reloading for my ROCK RIVER AR-15, NOT you reloading for your AR-15!! DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK and DO NOT USE ANY OF THIS INFO! This will not be as detailed as above (as it is pretty much the same process BUT with just a different cartridge / caliber), and will concentrate more around my 5.56 rock river arms AR-15's headspace, dropping powder, bullet seating, other general info, and witness the very same reloaded ammo produce 3 total 5shot groups @ 600yards! YOU SHOULD read the start of the original post before you even think about reading from this point on AS I HAVE SKIPPED OVER MANY STEPS IN THE RELOADING PROCESS. This is based just around key features.
**********************************************************

What I'm reloading for, my Rock River Arms EOP 18"SS bull barrel .223 / 5.56 rifle.

Best 5shot group @ 100yards in my entire life... EVER. This rifle is the most accurate rifle in my collection hands down. Well,,,,, depending on what yardage I'm shooting it at! LOL!

**********************************************************

Reloading for 5.56 in comparison to 7.62 in the above original post example is pretty much the same, but just a tad bit different.... I have personally found that 5.56 brass can NOT be pushed as hard in comparison to 7.62x51 brass and will usually start to see cracked necks around the 5th fire, maybe even around the 4th fire! Because of this, I don't like to bump my 5.56 brass as much as I do in the above 7.62 example.... Once I get the dreaded "cracked neck" it obviously goes into the BAD BRASS bin to be recycled. This brass (in the below picture) actually cracked on the 4th fire & I didn't even notice the crack until I was inspecting my brass once I got home from the range. It is UBER important to always check your fired 5.56 brass regardless of which fire it is on (mainly due to this very issue of cracked necks). Some of my friends will even continue to reload 5.56 brass until they either see signs of case head separation or the dreaded "cracked neck"... OUCH!

**********************************************************

Before I even check the headspace of the fired brass ejected out of my rock river 5.56 AR-15 rifle, I like to check the headspace of some FACTORY 5.56 / .223 ammo that I know performs well in my rifle and passes my .223 Wilson case guage... This gives me a good idea of what is a safe range MY HORNADY HEADSPACE GUAGE reads such ammo in comparison to what I might bump my fired brass shoulder back.... (make note that MY headspace gauge can actually produce measurements somewhat different in comparison to YOUR headspace gauge & is really all about how much I bump back my fired brass shoulder)....

This is some American eagle .223 FACTORY ammo with a headspace of 1.4525 IN MY HEADSPACE GUAGE...

This is some re-manufactured .223 bulk box FACTORY ammo with a headspace of 1.450 in my headspace gauge...

**********************************************************

This is some fired brass that was ejected out of my rock river arms 5.56 rifle. Brass that is ejected out of my rock river arms rifle is damn near all of the time 1.457

**********************************************************

Rather than bumping back my brass .004 as in the above 7.62 example,,,,, I personally like to bump back my 5.56 brass OUT OF MY ROCK RIVER AR-15 (not your rifle) .003 with a range of .001 +/-.... If brass is fired out of my rock river at 1.457 (as in the above picture), then I'll try to bump back my brass to a target datum measurement of 1.454 (no less than 1.453 & no more than 1.455). This is full length resized brass for my rock river arms rifle @ 1.454

**********************************************************


I still check all my brass with the hornady headspace gauge even for 5.56, but once in a blue moon if I'm reloading a MASSIVE amount (like 300plus rounds), then i'll bust out my Wilson case guage for speed (especially for plinking ammo)

**********************************************************

I personally like to trim my brass using the WFT .223 trimmer @ 1.750 as per the hornady reloading book, with a .001 +/- range as you can never get it perfect. Consistency = even neck tension = accuracy.

**********************************************************

Just so I'm not being redundant with the original post, I'm going to let these pictures do the talking... Seating primers & dropping varget powder @ 23.8 producing 2900 feet per second at the muzzle (DO NOT USE THIS INFO FOR YOUR RIFLE!)... Before you ask, this brass was sized months ago and is somewhat tarnished (but my rifle doesn't give a shit when it is fired if it is new looking). Pay close attention to brass prep in the original post!! Also note I've swapped out the hornady shell plate to #16, and installed the small primer seater & shuttle... I'm not going to hold your hand the entire distance on this 5.56 thread....

 

[elfster1234]

The bullets used, 60grn V-MAX! works wonders in my 1:8 twist bull barrel

I do not have a modified .223 case yet to test the distance to lands with the above bullet,,,, so I'm reloading to recommended COAL (which also happens to be damn near magazine length),,,, Because I don't have a modified .223 case to use the hornady OAL guage as described in the original post, I'll make a DUMMY ROUND (that has no powder & no primer) and HAND FEED that round into the chamber & close the bolt / run action / eject & then re-measure the COAL... if it is still 2.25 after it is ejected, then I know I'm good to go & bullet is not getting rammed into the lands...

Dummy round @ 2.25

Holy crap, this dummy round damn near doesn't fit into my PMAG! = seating bullet to magazine length pretty much

Do NOT use this reload info! I'm using 23.8grn varget producing 2900 feet per second the muzzle.

presto! finished kick ass ammo!

Notice the outrageous velocity, energy, and bullet drop in comparison to my LMT's 168 amax bullets... For those that are all new to this stuff, where my LMT's 168amax bullets still had more velocity and energy @ 600yards than a 44magnum at point blank range (as in the OP),,,,,, my 5.56 60gr vmax just might bounce off the paper target @ 600yards LOL (check out these 5.56 ballistics in comparison to the 7.62 ballistics in the original post)!!! Where the LMT's 7.62 168gr bullet was about 13moa elevation correction @ 600yards, the rock river's 5.56 60gr vmax bullet will be about 18moa elevation correction @ 600yards.... If my number's are correct, I'll need to adjust up 18moa (72 clicks) for the insane damn near 116" (9.66 feet) of bullet drop.. According to these preliminary #'s, once my 60grn vmax bullet hits the paper target @ 600yards, the bullet would have dropped 116", velocity of 1198 feet per second, will only have 191 energy ft-lbs (in comparison to my LMT's 168amax over 1400 ft-lbs @ 600yards),,, and will take .98seconds of flight time. Just another interesting fact, my LMT's 168 bullets will have way more ft-lbs energy at 600yards as the 168amax bullet hits the paper target, than my rock river 5.56 60gr vmax bullet will have at the muzzle as the bullet leaves the barrel!! Just to give you an idea, a .380 pistol produces about 190 ft-lbs energy @ ~ 950fps (w/95gr .380 bullets)at the muzzle (about the same as my reloaded ammo hitting the target @ 600yards!)... Kinda cool info if you ask me!

Lets go test these V-MAX bad boys on the 600yard range!

 

[elfster1234]

Lets go set up my targets @ the 600yard mark!

OK!! now that we have some varmint ass kicking ammo & I've doped my scope as described above for 18 minutes of angle UP (72 clicks!) & guessed about 1/2 minute of angle to the left for the small amount of wind,,,, I take my first 5shots (this is the very same ammo reloaded in the pics above and shot today so you can go on this 5.56 accuracy journey with me.... absolutely no cheery picked targets, only 15rounds shot, on 3 different 5shot groups @ 600yards)... Lets go see how I did on the first group!

This is NO SHIT the first 5shot group and I was absolutely floored with how spot on the ballistics calculator was in terms of MOA elevation adjustment. This 5shot group was right around 1MOA group size. Not too darn bad!

As you will see in the next 2 total 5shot groups, as the wind picked up over time it shifted my group location to the right. It is amazing how much just 5 to 6mph of wind can shift these little bullets over 600yards. This is where art and science come together on the shooting range and something I really need to practice. Still this next group size is right around 1MOA @ 600YARDS.

Group3, wind is really pushing these little 60grn vmax bullets to the right, but the group size is SUB-MOA!

Lets head back home and re-measure the brass that was ejected from my rifle during this test... Look at that! right back to 1.457 !!!!

Thank you for going on this AR-15 5.56 accuracy journey with me! Once again, DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK & produce your own methods!

 

[Kilmore]

We gots the makin's of a full length feature film on youtube right heres.

 

[sic65stang]

1.9@ 300Yd

 

[elfster1234]

Good question on how many reloads you can get with your brass! It is really all up to you, I can not answer this question with a straight forward answer. I can only explain my experience below.

It really all depends on the cartridge,,,,, how hot you load your charge,,,, and how much you bump back your shoulders / work the brass...... The less you bump your shoulder / work the brass = the longer it will last.

As for me, I try NOT to over gas my semi-auto rifles. This might be different for a bolt action, but for me and my semi-autos = For the love of god why do some people think that going stupid HOT powder drop charges will produce better accuracy is just stupid in my opinion. I have found that in my 7.62x51 LMT it DOES NOT like any varget charges over 43grn, maybe 43.5 TOPS!. Anything over 43grains of varget OR super performance factory ammo out of my LMT = blown primer pockets!! If you get any blown primer pockets = STOP SHOOTING and start pulling those bullets!!!! Most times I'll powder drop charge for the yardage I think I'll shoot that day. Why use some stupid HOT 43.5 varget charge for 100yard bug hole groups, when my lower "PET LOAD" accuracy node of 40.5 varget will not only be more accurate, but also improve the life of my brass, be easier on my LMT MWS rifle, and most important save me money / varget!! Now, with that being said, if I'm shooting at 300yards plus or I'm producing hunting ammo, THEN i'll start dipping into the 42 to 43grains of powder.... Knowing what accuracy powder drop "node" your rifle likes to use is the never ending reloader quest..................... IT NEVER ENDS! NEVER, AS IN NEVER EVER... LOL! It really is all about testing your ammo = all part of the fun! This is where you simply need to shoot for 5shot groups with different powder charges, use the OCW test, or ladder test. Over a period of time, you will start to see a pattern of what powder charges your rifle likes to shoot, but DON'T expect to simply purchase a semi-auto rifle & find the perfect powder drop charge on your first trip to the range.... IT TAKES A LONGGGGGG TIME to figure it all out.

I have found that with .223 / 5.56 I'm getting about 5 to 6 until either my neck either cracks or I start to see the tell tail sign of case head separation.

Casehead separation is something to really keep an eye on & NOT to fuck with! and why you should ALWAYS make sure you're using eye protection! Keeping an eye on case head separation is VERY important. If you push your brass too hard and your brass blows due to case head separation it can be rather dangerous and will either blow up your bolt or even worse. Knock on wood, it has never happen to me.
Quick Tips: Incipent Head Separation - YouTube
Case head seperation - YouTube
PPS-43 7.62x25 kB/Case Head Separation - Raw Video - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diVWPmvgk9U

As for .308 / 7.62x51 lake city....... lake city 7.62 is crazy awesome brass... it is stupid heavy duty and can take one hell of a beating. I have yet to have a neck crack on me with .308 / 7.62 brass and just to be honest with you on this question... I'm not sure.... I'm up to 6fires on some of my .308 / 7.62 brass & I have yet to trash this brass because to be honest with you it still looks good to me & I've just pulled another fresh batch of 1fired brass.... I'm still trying to decide if I want to keep firing this 6fired brass or just trash it. I just hate to trash it as it honestly doesn't have any signs of case head separation or cracked neck (then again I do not drop heavy powder drop charges for my semi-autos)... I always check my brass over, but I really make sure to check over my brass with a fine tooth comb when I start hitting 4fires plus..... looking for any signs of over pressure, case head separation, cracked necks, and loose primer pockets. Once in a blue moon I'll get a pc of 7.62 brass that is just totally beat up and when you really really really question a pc of brass = TRASH IT (the risk is not worth your health)... Once a pc of brass goes into my brass recycle bin IT NEVER COMES OUT, NEVER! IF IT IS IN THE BAD BRASS BIN, THEN IT IS IN THERE FOR A REASON!! (take your bad brass to the recycle center to get every single red cent dollar back into your pocket).

Also, many guys like to anneal to improve the life of their brass... I have yet to do this and will most likey never will.. I love to reload, but I don't think I would have the patience to anneal & at that point I would just trash it and move on. I think that would be the line in the sand for me in terms of time & money... Annealing is totally up to you! LOL, you can tell this guy really likes to anneal! Hahahaha, this is one hell of a set up he has here. Wow!

Annealing Workstation - YouTube

Elfster,how many loads are you getting on your brass? I run a mega in 260 and i just loaded some remington brass for the 5 time and there starting to get nasty. I know every brand of brass is different and remington isnt the best but do you go until you see a couple primer pockets get loose and then toss the whole batch or go a different route. I also run a 308 gas gun with lake city but havent got but two loads on my first 100. Just wondering when to call it quits if you know what i mean. Great write up some people claim they got gas guns that shoot quarter inch groups all day when everyone here knows its a bunch of shittttt.

 

[Strykervet]

Congrats, bro, want a cookie?

And then? And then?

 

[elfster1234]

Sometimes the most simple and inexpensive items can make a HUGE difference. Measuring a consistent headspace measurement as a new reloader can be ultra frustrating. Something as simple and inexpensive as this base anvil can make a huge difference. With a little practice, you can get spot on headspace measurements while applying a small amount of "closing pressure on the calipers" & "lightly spinning the brass while in the insert" until you produce a consistent headspace measurement. As noted in the original post headspace section, the amount of "shoulder bump / headspace measurement" IS UP TO YOU! Each rifle is different! Do your homework!

Was just on sale @ midwayusa for $9!!

Hornady Lock-N-Load Bullet Comparator Anvil Base Kit
Amazon.com: Lnl Anvil Base Kit: Sports & Outdoors

Check out my other threads for additional information & come join us on the online rifle range!

Disassembly, cleaning, & other basic info about AR's (with the LMT MWS as an example): http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...embly-cleaning-other-basic-info-ar-101-a.html

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...00yard-semi-auto-6group-30round-shootout.html

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...0yard-semi-auto-6groups-30round-shootout.html

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...0yard-semi-auto-6groups-30round-shootout.html

Helpful videos:

Shooting Fundamentals:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9VTMzCiZtE

Understanding Minute of Angle (MOA):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA2PZBD5Tjg

Understanding Mils (Milliradians):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5AGsHSIsVo

Wind Estimation and Compensation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p026Y0WUy6Q

Scope Tracking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q886sc-2grk

Rifle sight in process:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDrrJA14wtg


Practical D.O.P.E. (data on previous engagements):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJlVEsXZfPg

Shooting at angles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTSBcNgGMNo

Shooting Positions in the field:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-lzvjGPgKE

 

[Kilmore]

Show me your tight groups in the forehead of an dead enemy combatant and I'll really be impressed.

 

[elfster1234]

Wow.... All i got to say about this is disturbing. Issues anyone?

Show me your tight groups in the forehead of an dead enemy combatant and I'll really be impressed.

 

[elfster1234]

I recently had to re-mount & level my 1-4 vortex scope on my DPMS 3G1, so I figured I would share my technique for making sure your scope is 100% dead nuts level. I'm not saying this is what you should do, this is just what I do to to make sure my scopes are tip top.

I picked up 2 total inexpensive $1.25 each line levels from a local big box hardware store. The smaller the better & especially if they are in a nice aluminum housing as pictured. The home-made plumb bob I made with some string I had laying around the house with a heavy nut I didn't need & colored the end of the string with a black magic marker:

Doesn't hurt to verify your inexpensive mini-levels with a more expensive level before you do anything:

Put your home-made plumb bob on any door handle. Gravity will do the rest just like the bullet fired out of your rifle:

It helps big time to have a swivel style harris bipod to level your rifle left to right. Doesn't hurt to level the rifle front to back either while in your rear sandbag:

While the scope rings are still somewhat loose, adjust the crosshairs to match your plumb bob level line. Once they match perfectly, then tighten up your scope rings & you're ready to rock-n-roll. You might need to bring higher power scopes back further away from the plumb bob line than what is shown in this picture & might need to play around with your scope focus FYI:

 

[ArmyJerry]

I appreciate it but more interested in where you got those knobs for the cap on the thumbler, I hate fkn with the butterfly nuts.

 

[elfster1234]

Elfster. CHARGEMASTER. Optional. Pen. Straw. Mod.

I know some of you are going to go off the handle about using this & that type super expensive beam scale & to not to even use a chargemaster blah blah blah... This is NOT what this is thread even about. I like my chargemaster with the straw mod, this is just an option to fiddle around with for those that use such a mod (as an option)

If you like to fiddle around like me, maybe give this a try. Don't get me wrong, I really like the McDonald's straw mod for the chargemaster and I still wanted to still keep this option for higher volume brass like .308 and above, AND for speed purposes, but I wanted an optional smaller diameter hole insert that I could easily insert & remove as an option for more precise / lower volume brass work like 5.56 reloading that would never under/over throw. As in never ever... LOL...... I still wanted the requirement of being able to use the classic straw mod so this is what I came up with.... I took the insert out of a soft touch bic pen, wrapped enough blue painters tape around the pen insert (as in the pic) just enough so the optional insert can easily be inserted & removed as an option. I just tried it with 100 total @ 23.8grn powder drops of varget for 5.56 reloading without a single under / over throw AND THAT WAS WITH VARGET, and it usually stopped dropping powder right after 23.7 @ 23.8 on the nose. It does take about an extra 2 to 3 seconds per charge, BUT from what I've tested so far there was no need to scoop any powder out from over drops so the extra time wasted is somewhat of a wash (for lower grn powder drops like 5.56 / might not be the best for drops 40grns or more but you can test it as an option if you like)..... When you're done dropping powder, put pan in place, put finger over the plastic insert hole so powder doesn't spill, pull out the optional plastic insert as powder drops in pan, & run the chargemaster empty for storage purposes when done dropping powder. This optional insert glides in and out really easy but you need to guage the correct amount of tape that you wrap around the insert. If you like to fiddle around, give it a try and see what you think. So far, I'm really happy with it.

I took the insert out of this type of pen. The plastic pen insert is about 1-1/2" long give or take. Just an FYI, my straw mod is the same length:

BTW, I'm using this MOD of the MOD with the following video chargemaster re-program:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-DRJCL0D3A&feature=player_embedded


******************************************
EDIT:

ok... I think I have my finalized re-program settings for the pen insert... just dropped 100 for 100 perfect drops @ 24grns varget for some 5.56 vmax loads i'm working on... here are my finalized settings with the pen insert which shaved off about 10seconds per drop or about 16minutes for 100 total drops... this does a nice ultra slow trickle at the very last second.


Here are my settings:
HSP A1 -6.95
HSP B1 - 2.30
HSP C1 - 0.85

 

[Dacam]

Some of you guys are simply amazing. You guys get so much pleasure giving other people shit about there process, knowledge, or equipment its fricken sickening.
Elfster1234 has ALWAYS made threads and comments to help out us fellow shooters, he spends countless hours of his own time and I assume some of his own money
creating informative and challenging posts for us to read, learn and interact with. He is not posting these types of threads to get negative criticism from you ASSWIPES.
If you don't agree with his methods or his views....fine, don't read it and move on.

Elf, keep up the awesome work bro! It may not be of interest to some but I assure you, it is well informative to me and many others here on the "Hide".
I have learned so much here in the last few years just by keeping my mouth shut if I have nothing good to say and keeping my mind and ears open and listening to the more experienced shooters and firearm experts. I wish more people would do the same.

 

[Evol ways]

Some of you guys are simply amazing. You guys get so much pleasure giving other people shit about there process, knowledge, or equipment its fricken sickening.
Elfster1234 has ALWAYS made threads and comments to help out us fellow shooters, he spends countless hours of his own time and I assume some of his own money
creating informative and challenging posts for us to read, learn and interact with. He is not posting these types of threads to get negative criticism from you ASSWIPES.
If you don't agree with his methods or his views....fine, don't read it and move on.

Elf, keep up the awesome work bro! It may not be of interest to some but I assure you, it is well informative to me and many others here on the "Hide".
I have learned so much here in the last few years just by keeping my mouth shut if I have nothing good to say and keeping my mind and ears open and listening to the more experienced shooters and firearm experts. I wish more people would do the same.

I completely agree!! Elfster schooled me hard just a few days ago when I had a question about reloading. I am thankful for the time, information and knowledge some of these people give to this community. I am a complete newb but have learned much like you stated, eyes and ears open and my mouth shut.

Elfster keep up the good work man! You have really helped me learn about reloading. Put the negative comments aside and keep up the awesome job bub!!

 

[Three57]

I completely agree!! Elfster schooled me hard just a few days ago when I had a question about reloading. I am thankful for the time, information and knowledge some of these people give to this community. I am a complete newb but have learned much like you stated, eyes and ears open and my mouth shut.

Elfster keep up the good work man! You have really helped me learn about reloading. Put the negative comments aside and keep up the awesome job bub!!

Exactly, I wouldn't be where I'm at, without the help of good guys like elfster.

 

[wareagle700]

Wish I had seen this earlier...... Would have saved me some headache.
Good stuff.

 

[Kilmore]

LMT MWS is a combat weapon, not a bench rest target rifle. Reality being what ever you make it. Unless you are putting those rounds down range in under 30 seconds, it seem pointless to be firing a semi auto rifle, in slow fire mode like a target rifle. What do you have to gain doing so? The enemy does not usually hold still for you to get a good bead. Thats combat buddy. If you want to shoot for accuracy, a bolt gun makes better sense. A semi auto is normally half as accurate, (with some exceptions like my Mk12 mod01). If this is all just some form of reindeer games, or hanging pork for bragging rights, I get it, to each his own. I will move on, nothing here for me. Good hunting for those that get to the field.

 

[Dacam]

Elf has also helped me tremendously. Everytime I need help or don't know what to do he has gone out of his way to help me out. I knew nothing about reloading 6 months ago, and because of
Elfster I am much more confident in my reloads and processes that I use. I still have a lot more to learn though and will keep reading and asking questions to make me a better shooter and reloader.

 

[limamike56]

Pretty damn impressive pictures and thread here. Thanks for posting this. But it reminds me why I don't reload.

 

[Dacam]

Show me your tight groups in the forehead of an dead enemy combatant and I'll really be impressed.

He's not trying to impress anyone. I think you missing it entirely. Elfster is one who enjoys enlightening others with his knowledge of reloading and shooting. His knowledge may be
limited to the more experience shooter but he is just trying to show other shooters like myself who want to learn more of what other people are doing reloading wise. He's not trying
to show up anyone or imply that the LMT is a precision tool. It does shoot really well though. Thats all.

 

[Jacklulu]

Thank you
I have LMT as well and alway happy and willing to learn!
Guess some guys know it all
Please continue

 

[elfster1234]

Thank you big time decam! Your kind words are much appreciated and i really do try my best to help and inform others from my past experience. I just got back from the 600yard range with more pics with the ammo i reloaded in this thread so i can finish this thread now.... I think you will be amazed with the groups and the pictures.... It should really finish off this thread and make it totally epic.....yes, this stuff takes a big time chunk out of my life and costs big time dollars so guys like strac can eat a bag of dick.


Im never out to impress only to spread information. If i was out to impress i would chrerry pic my groups.

He's not trying to impress anyone. I think you missing it entirely. Elfster is one who enjoys enlightening others with his knowledge of reloading and shooting. His knowledge may be
limited to the more experience shooter but he is just trying to show other shooters like myself who want to learn more of what other people are doing reloading wise. He's not trying
to show up anyone or imply that the LMT is a precision tool. It does shoot really well though. Thats all.

 

[redhooker]

I appreciate it but more interested in where you got those knobs for the cap on the thumbler, I hate fkn with the butterfly nuts.

Just an FYI in case anyone else wants them, the knobs are a great upgrade and you don't need any washers with them. McFeelys is one place that carries them:

1/4-20 Female, Fluted Anti Vibration Knob, Jig Knobs & Supplies, Jigs & Fixtures, Tools - McFeely's

 

[elfster1234]

Yup! Thats where i got them! Thanks!

Just an FYI in case anyone else wants them, the knobs are a great upgrade and you don't need any washers with them. McFeelys is one place that carries them:

1/4-20 Female, Fluted Anti Vibration Knob, Jig Knobs & Supplies, Jigs & Fixtures, Tools - McFeely's

 

[ArmyJerry]

Thanks for the info Redhooker, Elf, keep the lessons coming man, don't worry about the douches that are taking the thread off track.

 

[elfster1234]

it will be done tonight... I just uploaded the pics from the 600yard range... you will actually get to see the bullets loaded in this thread make holes on paper @ 600yards... you will see the entire process from the brass being process to the bullet hole on paper @ the 600yard range.... I just uploaded the pics and will be done in maybe 2 hours ish?? I didn't cherry pick any targets... I just tried my best.. you should enjoy it!

Thanks for the info Redhooker, Elf, keep the lessons coming man, don't worry about the douches that are taking the thread off track.

 

[Temp9]

LMT MWS is a combat weapon, not a bench rest target rifle. Reality being what ever you make it. Unless you are putting those rounds down range in under 30 seconds, it seem pointless to be firing a semi auto rifle, in slow fire mode like a target rifle. What do you have to gain doing so? The enemy does not usually hold still for you to get a good bead. Thats combat buddy. If you want to shoot for accuracy, a bolt gun makes better sense. A semi auto is normally half as accurate, (with some exceptions like my Mk12 mod01). If this is all just some form of reindeer games, or hanging pork for bragging rights, I get it, to each his own. I will move on, nothing here for me. Good hunting for those that get to the field.

Honestly? So semi-autos only belong in combat, because "a bolt gun makes better sense"? Sure, a bolt gun may be more accurate than an AR of equal quality, but they are different systems which we use for recreation (ie. enjoyment, not killing people) among other things. Don't shit on someone's thread just because they choose to take steps in improving their skills with a system that you don't like. On top of that, he is taking time out of his life to help others in this sport. Seems like a good deal to me.

 

[elfster1234]

getting close... should be done in the next 45min im thinking...

 

[elfster1234]

save for more info

 

[Redmanss]

Excellent thread Elf, thanks.

 

[308Shooter1911]

Thanks for the info Elfster, always interesting to see how others do their reloading. Great job at getting the Mall Ninja's all stirred up too, LOL.

 

[308Shooter1911]

PS: Where do you buy your brass?

 

[limamike56]

elfster1234,

I just wanted to say again how much I learn from and enjoy your posts.

lloyd

 

[pmclaine]

Elf,

When you dial your sizing die down for set back to you use a fresh piece of brass on each try?...or do you squeeze a piece of brass, find its needs some more, dial down your die, and squeeze the same piece of brass again?

 

[Rockfish Dave]

Thank you for the time and effort it took to put this together. I picked up some little things I will incorporate into my regime.