Rifle Scopes K525 SUCKS !!!!! SB PM2 5-25 vs K525 VS TT525P

[Bandit31]

Mine was with the updated turrets and my ZP5 had it. It wasn’t bad, but it’s there. Wasn’t a big deal.

If they have turrets without the cam on the 2nd rev, it’s somwthing entirely new within the last month or two.

It'd have to be longer than that because I've had my newest 3-15 ZP5 for a few months now or I just got lucky. My first 3-15 ZP5 and my 5-25 have the older turrets but I agree with you, I don't find it to be that big of a deal either . It's a nuisance but not like I'm dialing past 14 mils dynamically for it to make a difference that matters.

 

[Dthomas3523]

@blbennett1288 what make you take up the trade? Just wanted to try the minox?

Him wanting the minox glass (it truly is on another level), and me wanting the 20m parallax, lsw and ambidextrous parallax.

 

[Diver160651]

We worked with Blaser and Minox to improve their warranty from what it was originally...
https://www.minox.com/fileadmin/downloads/Warranty/MINOX_Total_Coverage_Warranty_07_2017.pdf

Thanks at least I am not crazy.. It is at the top of my list still

 

[CSTactical]

Thanks at least I am not crazy.. It is at the top of my list still

We just got another shipment in of them

 

[LA260]

Can you send me the actual warranty link? I read the warranty info in their included literature- but it was sn early release

Sure. This is Minox warranty specific for ZP line.
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/resources/minox-total-coverage-warranty-for-zp-scopes.13/

 

[Dthomas3523]

It'd have to be longer than that because I've had my newest 3-15 ZP5 for a few months now or I just got lucky. My first 3-15 ZP5 and my 5-25 have the older turrets but I agree with you, I don't find it to be that big of a deal either . It's a nuisance but not like I'm dialing past 14 mils dynamically for it to make a difference that matters.

That’s odd. There’s at least 5 or so ZP5 5-25’s running around where I shoot and they all have the “updated” turrets that are still slightly tight in the 2nd rev.

Maybe CSTactical can shed light on it.

 

[CSTactical]

That’s odd. There’s at least 5 or so ZP5 5-25’s running around where I shoot and they all have the “updated” turrets that are still slightly tight in the 2nd rev.

Maybe CSTactical can shed light on it.

They still have some resistance going into the second rev, but it's greatly improved from what they originally were.

 

[blbennett1288]

We worked with Blaser and Minox to improve their warranty from what it was originally...
https://www.minox.com/fileadmin/downloads/Warranty/MINOX_Total_Coverage_Warranty_07_2017.pdf

 

[cageli]

We worked with Blaser and Minox to improve their warranty from what it was originally...
https://www.minox.com/fileadmin/downloads/Warranty/MINOX_Total_Coverage_Warranty_07_2017.pdf

This is awesome, thank you and Minox from the bottom of my heart. Good warranty makes a life and death difference. For all scopes I have handled, I will rate Minox ZP5 as top 1 choice for its performance, price and design. This statement even includes TT as I hate the super stubby turrets on TT. Of course just my personal view again. More Minox for me for sure!

 

[LA260]

View attachment 6957900

This is the document from Minox re ZP line
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/resources/minox-total-coverage-warranty-for-zp-scopes.13/

 

[blbennett1288]

@blbennett1288 what make you take up the trade? Just wanted to try the minox?

@Dthomas3523 already hit on a few, but mostly; MR4, glass, parallax adjustment. I could leave my AMG on anything from 400-infinity and it was good. Kahles you have to adjust more frequently.

I may still pick up another K525, I really just wanted to try a ZP5

 

[Bandit31]

That’s odd. There’s at least 5 or so ZP5 5-25’s running around where I shoot and they all have the “updated” turrets that are still slightly tight in the 2nd rev.

Maybe CSTactical can shed light on it.

I'll try to post a video later. You can hear it going through the second rev but the amount of resistance feels consistent dialing throughout the entire adjustment range. If there is any difference, it's so minute I can't distinguish it.

 

[CSTactical]

This is awesome, thank you and Minox from the bottom of my heart. Good warranty makes a life and death difference. For all scopes I have handled, I will rate Minox ZP5 as top 1 choice for its performance, price and design. This statement even includes TT as I hate the super stubby turrets on TT. Of course just my personal view again. More Minox for me for sure!

You're very welcome! We at CS Tactical try to work with our vendors to make some improvements on their products or service, the proof is in the pudding with the current revision of the ZP5 with the adjustments to the turrets, second rev, deeper parallax and warranty improvements. Mike does T&E for various vendors behind the scenes and our shooting Teams give us valuable feedback.

 

[Bandit31]

Should show the differences between the newer gen and old gen turrets on the Minox Zp5's. The difference in feel between the two is quite noticeable just like the second rev indicator.

 

[CSTactical]

Nice video!

 

[Diver160651]

@Dthomas3523 already hit on a few, but mostly; MR4, glass, parallax adjustment. I could leave my AMG on anything from 400-infinity and it was good. Kahles you have to adjust more frequently.

I may still pick up another K525, I really just wanted to try a ZP5

Somehow I missed the MR4 Version of the reticle when I was considering between the two. Missed the better warranty info..

But dang I love Kahles 20m focus, one hand everything in front of you and the protected yet accessible windage.

I run the scope flap to the no eye side and parallax, elevation and windage (just an easy double check an obstacle didn’t roll it).

All of the assume features will be hard to give up..

 

[5RWill]

@Dthomas3523 already hit on a few, but mostly; MR4, glass, parallax adjustment. I could leave my AMG on anything from 400-infinity and it was good. Kahles you have to adjust more frequently.

I may still pick up another K525, I really just wanted to try a ZP5

I hear ya i thought about taking him up on his trade as well but i figured i waited this long for the K525 that i'm gonna run it for a while. Always tempted to gamble on those FB auctions when Minox comes up lol. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts.

 

[blbennett1288]

I hear ya i thought about taking him up on his trade as well but i figured i waited this long for the K525 that i'm gonna run it for a while. Always tempted to gamble on those FB auctions when Minox comes up lol. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts.

Should be Monday that I'll be able to get to the range, unless I am able to sneak away this weekend for a bit.

 

[CSTactical]

Well if anyone is looking for the 'terrible' K525i, 'horrible' Minox ZP5, 'gruesome' Nightforce 7-35, 5-25 or 4-16 feel free to call me to rid me of them all /sarcasm

 

[Dthomas3523]

Somehow I missed the MR4 Version of the reticle when I was considering between the two. Missed the better warranty info..

But dang I love Kahles 20m focus, one hand everything in front of you and the protected yet accessible windage.

I run the scope flap to the no eye side and parallax, elevation and windage (just an easy double check an obstacle didn’t roll it).

All of the assume features will be hard to give up..

This is what drove my decision. I’m expecting a slight “downgrade” in glass, and probably a wash on turrets (I really like the minox turrets, they are “tight” in a good way).

But the 20m focus, lsw and ambidextrous focus adjustment, along with skmr3 seems like the best overall crossover package for rimfire/centerfire.

 

[5RWill]

@Dthomas3523 already hit on a few, but mostly; MR4, glass, parallax adjustment. I could leave my AMG on anything from 400-infinity and it was good. Kahles you have to adjust more frequently.

I may still pick up another K525, I really just wanted to try a ZP5

I really don't think the glass will be that different until the high end. But i've never seen Minox just going off what guys that have compared both have said. I do understand parallax and FOV though. FOV on the K525 leaves me scratching my head in regards to the design.

 

[Diver160651]

I really don't think the glass will be that different until the high end. But i've never seen Minox just going off what guys that have compared both have said. I do understand parallax and FOV though. FOV on the K525 leaves me scratching my head in regards to the design.

Yep shorter should have more but if you go to 100m it’s about within 1’ of the Minox so it is still good. .just not what we might think for a shorty.

The funny thing is, there’s a bunch of 3, 3.5 and 4x offerings with about the same field of view of the 5X of the Minox or Kahles. None here seemed to mind the low FOV of the 7-35 with about 33% less at only 14’ and change, or the 5-25 with a almost 20% less FOV

 

[InkedIan]

Yep shorter should have more but if you go to 100m it’s about within 1’ of the Minox so it is still good. .just not what we might think for a shorty.

The funny thing is, there’s a bunch of 3, 3.5 and 4x offerings with about the same field of view of the 5X of the Minox or Kahles. None here seemed to mind the low FOV of the 7-35 with about 33% less at only 14’ and change, or the 5-25 with a almost 20% less FOV

Can't compare the FOV of 5 vs 7 or 25 vs 35..... Of course a scope is going to have a smaller FOV at a higher magnification. You'd have to compare them at equal magnification. My guess is that the difference would be small at equal magnification.

 

[Diver160651]

Can't compare the FOV of 5 vs 7 or 25 vs 35..... Of course a scope is going to have a smaller FOV at a higher magnification. You'd have to compare them at equal magnification. My guess is that the difference would be small at equal magnification.

It less 7x to 7x- the Atcar 5-25 is also less by double digit %s I had them both and it can slow you down in a match with a narrow FOV in a diverse FOF..

All I am saying is a lot of people are making a deal of the larger FOV of the ZP over the Kahles. The Minox is at 100m or 109.36 yards. If you bring them both to 100 yards the Kahles specs at 21.7’ and the Minox @ 22.7’ Both these scopes are basically the same and much better than a lot of our favorites. Way better than my PMII 5-25 with only 15.89’ at 100 yards by a lot better than my NF (s) and even on par with the almost legendary TT525 that features 22.7’ at 100yards.

Again we are really lucky to have such great choices — I mean horrible scopes

 

[InkedIan]

It less 7x to 7x- the Atcar 5-25 is also less by double digit %s I had them both and it can slow you down in a match with a narrow FOV in a diverse FOF..

All I am saying is a lot of people are making a deal of the larger FOV of the ZP over the Kahles. The Minox is at 100m or 109.36 yards. If you bring them both to 100 yards the Kahles specs at 21.7’ and the Minox @ 22.7’ Both these scopes are basically the same and much better than a lot of our favorites. Way better than my PMII 5-25 with only 15.89’ at 100 yards by a lot better than my NF (s) and even on par with the almost legendary TT525 that features 22.7’ at 100yards.

Again we are really lucky to have such great choices — I mean horrible scopes

I'd have to disagree. Having used s&b 5-25, nf 7-35, K624i, XRS, DMR 1 & 2 in 2 day matches I've found the differences in FOV at the bottom of the list of importance as long as I used the proper magnification for each stage. Zero retention, tracking, resolution/clarity, and brightness are at the top of my list in that order. That's just my opinion and you know what they say about those.

 

[Diver160651]

I'd have to disagree. Having used s&b 5-25, nf 7-35, K624i, XRS, DMR 1 & 2 in 2 day matches I've found the differences in FOV at the bottom of the list of importance as long as I used the proper magnification for each stage. Zero retention, tracking, resolution/clarity, and brightness are at the top of my list in that order. That's just my opinion and you know what they say about those.

I also own or owned all the scopes you mentioned except I have K525i not the K624i. Everyone in this thread is probably very closely aligned in reality. We all want accurate dependable scopes with great features, wonderful glass and preferably a price we can afford.

Many features are at the top of my list before the “glass” as I posted several times in this thread, the entire point is that the some of the criticism about the FOV on the K525i is I’ll placed, especially by thoughs that love or use what has become our benchmark scopes.

What I end up with and I am not alone, is using some of the really high $ scopes with lower FOV on 10 or 12 vrs 10-15 (with more time on 15). Is it a deal breaker with any of these scopes, not really; but it should be considered, especially as we move to more and more reticles using .2 hashes. A few magnification points 12 vrs 15 as an example sure can make them easier, faster to read.

The 7~35 NF is a great ELR scope, but not as good as a positional scope as I thought when I first bought it. Can it work of course, but that’s not the point. Personally, I think your and everyone’s options does matter, that’s why this thread is so active.

 

[blbennett1288]

Everyone in this thread is probably very closely aligned in reality.

I think that is a stretch for some of this crowd ?

 

[5RWill]

I also own or owned all the scopes you mentioned except I have K525i not the K624i. Everyone in this thread is probably very closely aligned in reality. We all want accurate dependable scopes with great features, wonderful glass and preferably a price we can afford.

Many features are at the top of my list before the “glass” as I posted several times in this thread, the entire point is that the some of the criticism about the FOV on the K525i is I’ll placed, especially by thoughs that love or use what has become our benchmark scopes.

What I end up with and I am not alone, is using some of the really high $ scopes with lower FOV on 10 or 12 vrs 10-15 (with more time on 15). Is it a deal breaker with any of these scopes, not really; but it should be considered, especially as we move to more and more reticles using .2 hashes. A few magnification points 12 vrs 15 as an example sure can make them easier, faster to read.

The 7~35 NF is a great ELR scope, but not as good as a positional scope as I thought when I first bought it. Can it work of course, but that’s not the point. Personally, I think your and everyone’s options does matter, that’s why this thread is so active.

Are we talking about at intermediate magnification? Not max right? Because in that regard (max mag) the Kahles is still smaller than the S&B 5-25 and the ATACR 5-25. Granted only by about 6 inches or so.

 

[Diver160651]

Are we talking about at intermediate magnification? Not max right? Because in that regard (max mag) the Kahles is still smaller than the S&B 5-25 and the ATACR 5-25. Granted only by about 6 inches or so.

Yes, everyone I know only doals down for 2 reasons, larger FOV for faster sight acquisition and more stable sight image (countering shooter shake or Mirage)

 

[Dthomas3523]

I won’t know for certain until the match tomorrow, but the glass seems very nice in my K525i (I don’t notice CA in any glass unless it’s pointed out to me).

First glance, the minox glass is a bit better. Tomorrow will be cloudy/rainy, so it should be a good treat of the kahles. Shot a match a few weeks ago with the minox in same conditions and it worked wonderfully.

I like the elevation turret on the kahles. Very nice. The windage is meh. I feel like they could have made the clicks more positive. They were obviously going for a turret that wouldn’t be easy to turn accidentally so I get it.

The twist shit guard thing on windage is kinda gimmicky. I think it’s something they save money or put money elsewhere in future versions or future optics.

As with kahles, the ergonomics are awesome. Lsw and ambidextrous parallax is awesome for anyone who wants/needs it.

And it focuses to 20m.

So, do you need an optic that focuses to 20m, has lsw, ambidextrous focus, and has skmr3? If so, this is the package for you.

You give up a little less glass than minox, but not enough to matter.

If for example you own a centerfire and rimfire and you can only afford one optic for now? This is it. You can shoot nrl22 with it, swap it to your match rifle and shoot a 2 day prs match with it.

Don’t need any of that? There are other choices that may serve your situation well.

The kahles fills a need in my arsenal in that it can be a primary optic on any of my platforms, and if another platform’s glass goes down, the kahles can step right in where I left off.

 

[Covertnoob5]

@Dthomas3523 any initial thoughts on it vs an AMG?

 

[Dthomas3523]

@Dthomas3523 any initial thoughts on it vs an AMG?

Comes down to reticles. I would imagine low light will go to the kahles with the larger objective.

Turrets are a wash, they both have good turrets for what they are trying to accomplish. Both reticles do similar things.

AMG is substantially cheaper at many vendors.

Eye box is similar on both. Minox had an amazing eyebox.

They need to step up the amg to a 5-25x56 if they want to be an actual tactical prs scope. As it sits right now, it’s a niche scope for people who hunt long range and need to cut some weight.

So, the amg has found itself being compared to optics designed for slightly different uses. The fact that the amg holds up so well against them is a testament as to the potential vortex has to go full retard with the amg.

I’d say the amg vs kahles is a wash. Both have good turrets that some will like better than the other.

Deciding factors are ebr7b vs skmr3, and the is lsw and ambidextrous parallax worth more or are locking turrets worth more to you.

 

[5RWill]

Bennet seemed to like his K525 more than his AMG. Though i'd be running an AMG if the EBR7B's horizontal wasn't filled with monstrous 2/10th markings. The things are huge. The deals on that scope in the last year have made probably the best piece of glass on the market for the money. Scott had them at $1999 on a flash sale one night. Absolutely absurd. Shoulda put one the credit card honestly lol.

@Dthomas3523 so what area in terms of IQ does the Kahles give up to your eyes compared the minox? Obviously FOV and eyebox stand out. Contrast? Resolution? DOF? CA? Is it at max mag that it's noticeable or throughout the entire magnification range? Just curious as i remember a member on here saying below 25x that he thought the minox, tt, and k318i were extremely close.

I will say the more i've looked through both of mine i think people are exaggerating the CA control on both the K318i and K525i. I've been thoroughly impressed in that regard. Because considering where they came from to where they are is a huge leap, while retaining/improving almost all of their IQ. Minus FOV of course.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Bennet seemed to like his K525 more than his AMG. Though i'd be running an AMG if the EBR7B's horizontal wasn't filled with monstrous 2/10th markings. The things are huge. The deals on that scope in the last year have made probably the best piece of glass on the market for the money. Scott had them at $1999 on a flash sale one night. Absolutely absurd. Shoulda put one the credit card honestly lol.

@Dthomas3523 so what area in terms of IQ does the Kahles give up to your eyes compared the minox? Obviously FOV and eyebox stand out. Contrast? Resolution? DOF? CA? Is it at max mag that it's noticeable or throughout the entire magnification range? Just curious as i remember a member on here saying below 25x that he thought the minox, tt, and k318i were extremely close.

I will say the more i've looked through both of mine i think people are exaggerating the CA control on both the K318i and K525i. I've been thoroughly impressed in that regard. Because considering where they came from to where they are is a huge leap, while retaining/improving almost all of their IQ. Minus FOV of course.

I stay away from specific glass discussion as it’s entirely subjective unless someone like koshkin knows how to properly evaluate the optics.

I also don’t go through the entire mag range as I’m either at 25x, 18x, or 15x. On an extremely high mirage day, I may go a little below. So for my purposes, I don’t care about anything lower (couldn’t care less about tunneling on any optic as I don’t use them that low).

I also wouldn’t say people are exaggerating the CA, as I know people who are the opposite of me and notice CA immediately and if there’s too much of it, it really does bug them.

The best way I can describe it, after owning 2x amg, 2x Schmidt, 2x atacr, vortex razor gen2, sig tango 6, minox, k525i, and spending time behind many others, the minox is the only one I actually thought “wow” when looking through the glass.

Everything about the image was stunning. Color, contrast, and clarity. I was able to see/notice details that I didn’t with other optics.

That being said, I’m of the opinion(possibly I’m wrong) that certain optical prescriptions and coatings stand appeal to someone’s eyes that may not for someone else.

Not to mention there is a considerable amount of purchaser bias when someone either a) is a big fan of a manufacturer or b) can only afford that one optic or two and feels like they need to justify said optic.

 

[Dthomas3523]

@Dthomas3523 any initial thoughts on it vs an AMG?

To clarify, if someone has an amg, the only reason to consider the kahles is if you prefer the skmr3 or the ergonomics. Or if you just want to change it up.

Kinda like when the new gen glock comes out, makes more sense to buy if you don’t own a glock. If you do, you’re not getting enough to matter unless you just want something else.

I’d pick the k525i over the amg if I were buying both new (unless I was planning on going/doing something very, very harsh hunting environment where damaging the optic via a fall or drop as the vortex warranty and turnaround is excellent).

But if you already have an amg and are pretty happy with it, and have other things to buy or maybe not the budget to splurge, I’d stay with the amg.

 

[47guy]

I stay away from specific glass discussion as it’s entirely subjective unless someone like koshkin knows how to properly evaluate the optics.

I also don’t go through the entire mag range as I’m either at 25x, 18x, or 15x. On an extremely high mirage day, I may go a little below. So for my purposes, I don’t care about anything lower (couldn’t care less about tunneling on any optic as I don’t use them that low).

I also wouldn’t say people are exaggerating the CA, as I know people who are the opposite of me and notice CA immediately and if there’s too much of it, it really does bug them.

The best way I can describe it, after owning 2x amg, 2x Schmidt, 2x atacr, vortex razor gen2, sig tango 6, minox, k525i, and spending time behind many others, the minox is the only one I actually thought “wow” when looking through the glass.

Everything about the image was stunning. Color, contrast, and clarity. I was able to see/notice details that I didn’t with other optics.

That being said, I’m of the opinion(possibly I’m wrong) that certain optical prescriptions and coatings stand appeal to someone’s eyes that may not for someone else.

Not to mention there is a considerable amount of purchaser bias when someone either a) is a big fan of a manufacturer or b) can only afford that one optic or two and feels like they need to justify said optic.

THIS RIGHT HERE!!

this is one of....if not the best explication to a scope question ive ever read....i to have owned most of these scopes and have looked through the others with the exception of the K525 and like Dthomas the glass on the minox was the best but past that it was not for me....ive owned 2 624i and love everything about them except the SKMR3.

my first 624i had the SKMR3....it was ok but was hard for me to see the dot on steel that has most or all of the paint shot off or on dark colored targets and i just prefer a solid cross...i have a 624i with the SKMR2 and am very pleased.

also like Dthomas i do not see all these issues with glass that ppl talk about...i can see tunneling and if the scope starts to get fuzzy around the outside edges when on high mags but as far as the other things i guess my eyes just dont pick it up.
the guy i sold my minox to and i laid behind both scopes for about 30mins comparing the minox to the 624i and the only difference that we could see was that the minox had a little better detail.

so like at 1000yds we could clearly see finer details like the branches on bushes ECT "but" it was not a HUGE like day and night difference and also as ive mentioned the eye box was tight on the minox i had...maybe there was something wrong with it because ive not seen/read that complaint from anyone else but the guy i sold the minox to ended up selling it and bought my 624i with the SKMR3 because of the same issue and is much happier.

 

[blbennett1288]

@Dthomas3523 any initial thoughts on it vs an AMG?

I have had both and prefer the K525 even with the price difference. 5-25x56, SKMR3, LSW, Ambi Parallax, better turrets, second rev indicator on the K525.

I found the horizontal subtensions on the EBR-7B to be too cluttered, because of their height. The clicks/tactile feeling of adjustments are nice, just not a huge fan of the turrets. The locking turrets is a nice feature. The parallax is great. Eyebox is good.

 

[5RWill]

I stay away from specific glass discussion as it’s entirely subjective unless someone like koshkin knows how to properly evaluate the optics.

I also don’t go through the entire mag range as I’m either at 25x, 18x, or 15x. On an extremely high mirage day, I may go a little below. So for my purposes, I don’t care about anything lower (couldn’t care less about tunneling on any optic as I don’t use them that low).

I also wouldn’t say people are exaggerating the CA, as I know people who are the opposite of me and notice CA immediately and if there’s too much of it, it really does bug them.

The best way I can describe it, after owning 2x amg, 2x Schmidt, 2x atacr, vortex razor gen2, sig tango 6, minox, k525i, and spending time behind many others, the minox is the only one I actually thought “wow” when looking through the glass.

Everything about the image was stunning. Color, contrast, and clarity. I was able to see/notice details that I didn’t with other optics.

That being said, I’m of the opinion(possibly I’m wrong) that certain optical prescriptions and coatings stand appeal to someone’s eyes that may not for someone else.

Not to mention there is a considerable amount of purchaser bias when someone either a) is a big fan of a manufacturer or b) can only afford that one optic or two and feels like they need to justify said optic.

I gotcha and agree it’s so subjective eye to eye it’s hardly quantifiable. Which is why telling someone to get behind the optic is probably the best advice to give at the end of the day.

I think you misunderstood my CA statement. I think CA is a huge deal. I hate it and notice it. Past a price point it should be extremely minimal to nonexistent. This is then reason i never stuck with a 624i because for a $3000 optic it has absurd amounts of CA. But it’s extremely minimal on the new gen kahles is my point. But people are acting like it’s not much better than the 624i which is just untrue, it is present but leaps and bounds from where kahles was. That was my point, in that regard they've made a substantial leap.

But yeah you all have me wanting to see a ZP5 now ha.

 

[blbennett1288]

Bennet seemed to like his K525 more than his AMG. Though i'd be running an AMG if the EBR7B's horizontal wasn't filled with monstrous 2/10th markings. The things are huge. The deals on that scope in the last year have made probably the best piece of glass on the market for the money. Scott had them at $1999 on a flash sale one night. Absolutely absurd. Shoulda put one the credit card honestly lol.

@Dthomas3523 so what area in terms of IQ does the Kahles give up to your eyes compared the minox? Obviously FOV and eyebox stand out. Contrast? Resolution? DOF? CA? Is it at max mag that it's noticeable or throughout the entire magnification range? Just curious as i remember a member on here saying below 25x that he thought the minox, tt, and k318i were extremely close.

I will say the more i've looked through both of mine i think people are exaggerating the CA control on both the K318i and K525i. I've been thoroughly impressed in that regard. Because considering where they came from to where they are is a huge leap, while retaining/improving almost all of their IQ. Minus FOV of course.

I stay away from specific glass discussion as it’s entirely subjective unless someone like koshkin knows how to properly evaluate the optics.

I also don’t go through the entire mag range as I’m either at 25x, 18x, or 15x. On an extremely high mirage day, I may go a little below. So for my purposes, I don’t care about anything lower (couldn’t care less about tunneling on any optic as I don’t use them that low).

I also wouldn’t say people are exaggerating the CA, as I know people who are the opposite of me and notice CA immediately and if there’s too much of it, it really does bug them.

The best way I can describe it, after owning 2x amg, 2x Schmidt, 2x atacr, vortex razor gen2, sig tango 6, minox, k525i, and spending time behind many others, the minox is the only one I actually thought “wow” when looking through the glass.

Everything about the image was stunning. Color, contrast, and clarity. I was able to see/notice details that I didn’t with other optics.

That being said, I’m of the opinion(possibly I’m wrong) that certain optical prescriptions and coatings stand appeal to someone’s eyes that may not for someone else.

Not to mention there is a considerable amount of purchaser bias when someone either a) is a big fan of a manufacturer or b) can only afford that one optic or two and feels like they need to justify said optic.

To summarize my initial impressions:

The K525 ergonomically is nicer. As has been stated ad nauseam; Ambi Parallax, LSW, form factor, raised magnification numbers, red second rev indicator, tenth mil marking are staggered like on a tape measure. All these features make it a feature rich scope that is easy to use and not to mention sexy. The SKMR3 horizontally is perfect. I would like to see them expand like the EBR-7B or MR4 on the vertical portion of the reticle. Focuses down to 20m if that is important to you. Kahles is pushing the scope world forward by changing things up and I really like their offerings.

The Minox is your traditional scope. It executes that perfectly, without flaw. When I upgraded from the AMG to K525 I was wowed by all the aforementioned features. When I made the lateral transition from the K525 to ZP5 I was wowed by the image. The ZP5 turrets are nice, the tenth mil markings are all the same height except the 0.5 and 1 mil increments. The click resistance is extremely tactile, very deliberate, and audible. There is no longer back travel. There is an increased resistance from 1st to 2nd rev but is not bad, a lot like CSTacticals video. No distance markings on the parallax but the parallax is really nice.

Honestly, it really comes down to what you look to get out of the scope. Feature rich (K525) or better glass and reticle (ZP5)? I think that is the question it really comes down to. I will either be getting another K525 or standardizing with the ZP5.

 

[blbennett1288]

I gotcha and agree it’s so subjective eye to eye it’s hardly quantifiable. Which is why telling someone to get behind the optic is probably the best advice to give at the end of the day.

I think you misunderstood my CA statement. I think CA is a huge deal. I hate it and notice it. Past a price point it should be extremely minimal to nonexistent. This is then reason i never stuck with a 624i because for a $3000 optic it has absurd amounts of CA. But it’s extremely minimal on the new gen kahles is my point. But people are acting like it’s not much better than the 624i which is just untrue, it is present but leaps and bounds from where kahles was. That was my point, in that regard they've made a substantial leap.

But yeah you all have me wanting to see a ZP5 now ha.

The CA is greatly reduced in the K318 and K525 compared to the K624. Before I purchased a Kahles I went to a local gun store and lined up my AMG, a K624, and a K318. AMG > K318 > K624 in terms of CA. This is what ultimately made me decide to get the K525 and get in on the pre-order.

I went back once I had the K525 and my results were as expected K525 > K318 > K624

 

[Silvan]

AMG is nice. I owned a Premier, Kahles 6-24 gen II, Atacr F1 5-25 Mil-C, Beast in MOA, and stopped eventually at AMG ebr-7b. But regarding the "glass" factor , Premier is the best among them. Would love to test and review a new kahles 5-25 too and check how horrible it is.

 

[Glassaholic]

The twist shit guard thing on windage is kinda gimmicky. I think it’s something they save money or put money elsewhere in future versions or future optics.

That is hilarious DT, that was exactly my thought when I first handled my K318i, in fact, I thought my twist guard was broke because I was spinning it just fine without any resistance until I realized it is only the very outer plate of the turret that spins freely - it seems to me that in a harsh environment that windage could still get bumped while a locking or covered turret would not, maybe I'm wrong but it doesn't seem like it would be very effective.

The best way I can describe it, after owning 2x amg, 2x Schmidt, 2x atacr, vortex razor gen2, sig tango 6, minox, k525i, and spending time behind many others, the minox is the only one I actually thought “wow” when looking through the glass.

Everything about the image was stunning. Color, contrast, and clarity. I was able to see/notice details that I didn’t with other optics.

That being said, I’m of the opinion(possibly I’m wrong) that certain optical prescriptions and coatings stand appeal to someone’s eyes that may not for someone else.

This was my experience as well DT, the first time I got the Minox and had the other scopes out, every time I looked through the Minox it had that "wow" factor. Like you said, it wasn't like the other scopes were horrible, but whatever formula Optronika (Premier, TT, Minox ZP5) uses is what is most pleasing to my eye. I remember back in the day when I had my Zeiss Diavari FL 4-16x50 and thought it was the end all be all of optical quality and then I bought a Premier LT 3-15x50 and it too had that wow factor, again, not to say the Zeiss wasn't impressive, but the Premier had something extra special about it. This is also what I'm hoping to experience from the new ZCO scopes, that they too will have that "wow" factor for my eyes. And the "for my eyes" is crucial here because as you mention above, I believe we are perceive things a bit differently when it comes to optics... you may prefer blonds while I prefer brunettes, does that make you wrong and me right, certainly not

 

[Glassaholic]

AMG is nice. I owned a Premier, Kahles 6-24 gen II, Atacr F1 5-25 Mil-C, Beast in MOA, and stopped eventually at AMG ebr-7b. But regarding the "glass" factor , Premier is the best among them. Would love to test and review a new kahles 5-25 too and check how horrible it is.

You may already know this Sil but Premier was made by Optronika who was what I call the Lockheed Skunk Works of optical design, they were hand picked from Schmidt and Bender at the time and built some of the most amazing scopes in regard to pure optical performance. When Premier went under Tangent Theta took over and improved a bit on the design but mostly mechanically; however, the Optronika group stayed somewhat intact and were ultimately used by Minox for their ZP5 series of scopes (important to note that Minox's other lines did not have Optronika's touch on them). So for those who may not be up to date on the history, the Premier Heritage, Tangent Theta and Minox ZP5 scopes all share a common ancestry. Optonika is still around but is part of German Sports Optics (GSO) - http://www.german-sports-optics.de/en and still designing optics for other manufacturers.

 

[Dthomas3523]

So far, so good on the 525i. I ran it in a 12 stage match today (shit the bed the last 4 stages after running very well the first 8). The tracking on the Khales matches my dope perfectly.

I’ll write more later. Going to run it in an nrl22 match tomorrow.

Also, 100 thumbs up for ingenuity gunworks adjustarail.

 

[Glassaholic]

Every time I see a JAE 700 stock I regret selling mine Especially since they raised their prices like $700 soon afterward. I've been looking at the Area 419's Arca Lock kit but now you have me looking at the Gunwerks, but I can't find any "adjustrail" on their site? I can't help but thinking this is a sweet time for long range shooting sports!

 

[Dthomas3523]

Every time I see a JAE 700 stock I regret selling mine Especially since they raised their prices like $700 soon afterward. I've been looking at the Area 419's Arca Lock kit but now you have me looking at the Gunwerks, but I can't find any "adjustrail" on their site? I can't help but thinking this is a sweet time for long range shooting sports!

https://www.ingenuitygunworks.com/product/adjustarail-system/

Had an Arca lock. I love 419 stuff but this kicks the shit out of it.

 

[5RWill]

FWIW you can get the ingenuity rail installed in manners stocks as well. Though it is pricey. I'm planning on the new ARCA loc for my PRS2

 

[TangoSierra916]

Yep I Did a review comparing tangent theta and nf 7-35 compared to the k525. There’s definitely a deterioration in resolution past 23x. It’s not horrible but it’s noticeable... Tangent theta is about as perfect as you can get it.... I expect ZCO to blow many scopes out of the water and rival the tangent. I’m really rooting for it considering it’s assembled in the US and tangent is Canadian.

My personal feeling on the chromatic aberration was made evident in my review... I hate it which is why I sold the k624 before even mounting it. I found it horrible and intolerable for principle alone. Why would I pay $3k for such a crap issue.

In my review I found the k525 improved from the k624 for chromatic aberration but it was still there. I probably should have done comparisons at white objects at distance because I have a feeling it would have been made more evident.

Get ready for ZCO!

@Renomd -Where’s your review, ild be interested in reading it if you don’t mind.

@Msaon308 - thanks for putting this together those picture are pretty cool to see. Everyone’s eyes differ a bit but very nice to see this comparisons. Thanks!

 

[Renomd]

@Renomd -Where’s your review, ild be interested in reading it if you don’t mind.

@Msaon308 - thanks for putting this together those picture are pretty cool to see. Everyone’s eyes differ a bit but very nice to see this comparisons. Thanks!

@TangoSierra916

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...d-nightforce-atacr-7-35.6897574/#post-7175700

 

[Psycho]

K525i doesn’t suck. May have just got a lemon? Had a minor issue with mine and got a new one 3 days later.