Rifle Scopes K525 SUCKS !!!!! SB PM2 5-25 vs K525 VS TT525P

[Msaon308]

Well, I am backing into scope market for my 6.5 PRC build. Just tired of SB PM2 5-25 because I own 3 of them even on my rimfire trainer..... Because they are The BEST ELR scopes( at least about 4y ago I am still on the scope market). I do not shoot PRS match and I shoot meanly on 1K and 1 mile sometimes over 1 mile. And here are some photo I took at the same place/ target and the same time ..... at 1k and 1 mile. ( All three scopes I paid out of my own pocket)

I do not know what you guys think. There are just my 2cents. I had a K624 before the same thing in the photo even worse than k525 and sold it. And I bought a k525 hope it will change well I guess not........the FOV suck also the purple color. Really? Kahles WTF? Is this how you do a scope cost 3k? At the same price range SB PM2 still the King. like you guys see in the photo the TT525p is much better than SB PM2 at 1 mile but not so many different in 1k. I know most of the members do not have the chance or time to shoot 1k and 1mil often like me (every weekend 1k. 4 times 1 mile a month). So is tt525 worth you about 1k more than SB PM2? For me hell YES!!!! but not for everyone. In short, the K525 just not worth that price tag do not buy it !!!!!! Try to find some deal on SB pm2 is your best option.

 

[Mordamer]

Thanks for posting the pictures. I agree with your assertion. I would have liked to have seen a picture through a Nightforce ATACR F1 at the same time. Would have been interesting. I switched from a K624i to an ATACR F1 7-35 and I find the Nightforce to be far supperior.

 

[W54/XM-388]

If you are bored with your 5-25x56 S&B scopes, you could always send one back to S&B to change the reticle on it.

If you are doing some dedicated range work in the 1 mile + range, the 5-45x56 and the 12-50 are pretty nice to work with.

 

[SCOPEBROKER]

I am surprised by your experience with Kahles. I see it in the pic, but have always found Kahles, Minox, Schmidt and ATACR to be of the best in long-range scopes. I find Minox and Kahles, personally to be a tad better than Schmidt. I have not tried TT.

I will say, that our customer rave about the ATACR 7-35x, and find it better than similar S&B scopes, FWIW.

 

[jkyoung]

Looks like K525 is complete fail line up with classic gold standard pm2 and the new king TT.

Personally I had a k624 and the reason I don't like it is CA issue, for some people it not matter to their accuracy of shooting but it make me mad and I have to get rid of it at the end.

 

[Yerman]

Thank you for posting this. It’s great to see a real world difference. Now I just need to figure out how to tell the wife I want to buy a TT.

 

[Gtscotty]

The pictures really illustrate the difference well, how did you take them? The view through the TT is really amazing.

 

[Covertnoob5]

Also definitely interested in how you go such good pictures through the scope

 

[just browsing]

Kahles has always had a tough time controlling CA... stark contrast putting it next to the S&B and TT.

Great pics.

 

[Msaon308]

Looks like K525 is complete fail line up with classic gold standard pm2 and the new king TT.

Personally I had a k624 and the reason I don't like it is CA issue, for some people it not matter to their accuracy of shooting but it make me mad and I have to get rid of it at the end.

makes me mad too.......why I need
compromise when I paid about 3k LOL

 

[Msaon308]

Also definitely interested in how you go such good pictures through the scope

Believe or not I uesed a professional level DRSL camera with a tripod.

 

[Msaon308]

The pictures really illustrate the difference well, how did you take them? The view through the TT is really amazing.

yep TT so far so good but 1k more than SB for shooer only shooting under 1000yd is a bit of over kill. I will invest that 1k in a nice spotting scope.

 

[Msaon308]

Thank you for posting this. It’s great to see a real world difference. Now I just need to figure out how to tell the wife I want to buy a TT.

hahaha

Thanks for posting the pictures. I agree with your assertion. I would have liked to have seen a picture through a Nightforce ATACR F1 at the same time. Would have been interesting. I switched from a K624i to an ATACR F1 7-35 and I find the Nightforce to be far supperior.

I am interest in the NF 7-35 too，really want to bring it to 1k and 1 mile to take a look to see how it compare with the SB/tt/hensoldt

 

[Vargmat]

I want to like Kahles but the CA and a shallow depth of field is the reasons I will never buy one. There are a lot of fan boys in here though that will find this thread offensive.

 

[Raptorman2014]

hahaha

I am interest in the NF 7-35 too，really want to bring it to 1k and 1 mile to take a look to see how it compare with the SB/tt/hensoldt

me too ... need to add 7-35x

 

[DellaDog]

Won’t argue the CA in the pics, but the FOV is misleading because the image is centered lower than the TT & SB and in effect “crops” out the numbered targets.

Additionally, the focus looks WAY softer than both as well. In the 1k pics, blades of grass are clearly sharper in both the TT and SB. Something doesn’t seem right.

 

[Vargmat]

DeliaDog: I would guess that it is not a problem with focus as much as it seems to be a problem with contrast, probably combined with the shallow depth of field of Kahles scopes that makes the pictures look the way they do.

With the Schmidt and the TT you can clearly make out texture in the grass, where as the Kahles its pretty much just green. This makes me think about contrast, or lack there of.

 

[DellaDog]

I’ve only had mine at the range once (this weekend with plates out to 2k) and I could clearly (& sharply) see my hits at 1300. I would think I would have noticed such crappy resolution, but I ended the day thinking how nice the glass was. I’ve been using a March 5-40x56 for the past year at the same range and felt the Kahles was every bit as nice as the March.

I’ll definitely take both this coming weekend and compare them side by side at 1k.

 

[5RWill]

Won’t argue the CA in the pics, but the FOV is misleading because the image is centered lower than the TT & SB and in effect “crops” out the numbered targets.

Additionally, the focus looks WAY softer than both as well. In the 1k pics, blades of grass are clearly sharper in both the TT and SB. Something doesn’t seem right.

Agreed. While i can't comment on the K525 yet (i haven't seen mine) The k318i has significantly less CA than the 624i. So they've addressed it. Is it gone? No unfortunately not but given the design the K525 should show less than the K318i.

Love the pics BTW though i'd like to see side by side. It's hard to judge IQ based on pictures. If that picture above is representative of his particular k525 i'd send it back. Too many positive from people i trust to believe the IQ is that large of a drop off compared to existing offerings. Granted they might not be looking at a Mile either. Several members here seem to love theirs, comparing them to TT, Minox, AMG, ATACR, etc. there has been very little complaint of the K525.

I'll see for myself soon enough. Do thoroughly enjoy those pics.

 

[Iamero]

So the real question here is, how much do you want to sell me that Kahles 5-25 for? ?

 

[bjay]

So the real question here is, how much do you want to sell me that Kahles 5-25 for? ?

Do you want mine? Im loving my lrr and i might sell one kahles for one more lol

 

[Msaon308]

Won’t argue the CA in the pics, but the FOV is misleading because the image is centered lower than the TT & SB and in effect “crops” out the numbered targets.

Additionally, the focus looks WAY softer than both as well. In the 1k pics, blades of grass are clearly sharper in both the TT and SB. Something doesn’t seem right.

Well, the FOV problem is a fact no matter how I took the photo......K525 fov spec on their official website is about 20% smaller than SB PM2.

 

[Msaon308]

I’ve only had mine at the range once (this weekend with plates out to 2k) and I could clearly (& sharply) see my hits at 1300. I would think I would have noticed such crappy resolution, but I ended the day thinking how nice the glass was. I’ve been using a March 5-40x56 for the past year at the same range and felt the Kahles was every bit as nice as the March.

I’ll definitely take both this coming weekend and compare them side by side at 1k.

well the CA and fov problem does not mean you can’t not hit the target maybe under 1300yd........but it well on 1mile. honestly the CA and FOV on k525 under 800yd is not bad. If I only shoot about 700-800yd I woud not know the difference LOL. But like I sad after you paid about 3k your hard working money......I guess you would expect soem thing better than this.

 

[Msaon308]

I want to like Kahles but the CA and a shallow depth of field is the reasons I will never buy one. There are a lot of fan boys in here though that will find this thread offensive.

Well, I can not change how people spend their own money. I am there is just tell people soem facts about Kahles scopes to help members to spend their hard working money wisely.

 

[Msaon308]

Agreed. While i can't comment on the K525 yet (i haven't seen mine) The k318i has significantly less CA than the 624i. So they've addressed it. Is it gone? No unfortunately not but given the design the K525 should show less than the K318i.

Love the pics BTW though i'd like to see side by side. It's hard to judge IQ based on pictures. If that picture above is representative of his particular k525 i'd send it back. Too many positive from people i trust to believe the IQ is that large of a drop off compared to existing offerings. Granted they might not be looking at a Mile either. Several members here seem to love theirs, comparing them to TT, Minox, AMG, ATACR, etc. there has been very little complaint of the K525.

I'll see for myself soon enough. Do thoroughly enjoy those pics.

Yep the best way is to bring them to your favorite range and see them side by side.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

presumptively all 3 optics were at the same mag setting ?

 

[Msaon308]

presumptively all 3 optics were at the same mag setting ?

yes all on max mag setting

 

[Killswitch Engage]

gotcha. yeah i havent been impressed with any kahles optic period. i have tested and tried everything from the k312i through all gens of the k624i and now the 318/525 and they are all nothing impressive to me at all. C/A is signifigant on every one of them and they have all seemed to have the muddiness to them you show in your pic.

 

[Msaon308]

gotcha. yeah i havent been impressed with any kahles optic period. i have tested and tried everything from the k312i through all gens of the k624i and now the 318/525 and they are all nothing impressive to me at all. C/A is signifigant on every one of them and they have all seemed to have the muddiness to them you show in your pic.

yep， they are just not worth the price

 

[Franko]

Thanks for posting the pics. Documented real world performance helps us all to be better consumers.

 

[LA260]

Nice pics! Not sure how you pulled it off but they look great. That TT is really something.

 

[The Durk]

Holy cow. That's highly disappointing. I'm a k624i fanboy, but that's because mine does everything I could possibly want. It has much less CA than other scopes I've seen, including other k624i's. I guess I got really lucky with mine. I still scoff at a $400ish price increase on the k525, with only adding 2x zoom range, and locking windage turrets.

 

[Jackomason]

Wish there were more threads like this! Definatly interesting to see what your money gets you. Zero comp and the NF atacr line are what I'd like to see next to the S&B and TT. Like everyone else I want the most for my hard earned money.

Good stuff, thanks!

 

[DellaDog]

It's one report (among many with differing opinions) , though I have seen another review of poor resolution at 25x.
I'll take some pics this weekend at 1K and post images from both it and a March 5-40x56.

 

[bhoges]

Damn I just ordered a K525i!!! Wow can't believe the difference. NG

 

[cageli]

It's one report (among many with differing opinions) , though I have seen another review of poor resolution at 25x.
I'll take some pics this weekend at 1K and post images from both it and a March 5-40x56.

Looking forward to more samples. On the other hand, I dont think March is in the same league as these German/Austria glasses, esp. about optical performance.

 

[Renomd]

It's one report (among many with differing opinions) , though I have seen another review of poor resolution at 25x.
I'll take some pics this weekend at 1K and post images from both it and a March 5-40x56.

Yep I Did a review comparing tangent theta and nf 7-35 compared to the k525. There’s definitely a deterioration in resolution past 23x. It’s not horrible but it’s noticeable... Tangent theta is about as perfect as you can get it.... I expect ZCO to blow many scopes out of the water and rival the tangent. I’m really rooting for it considering it’s assembled in the US and tangent is Canadian.

My personal feeling on the chromatic aberration was made evident in my review... I hate it which is why I sold the k624 before even mounting it. I found it horrible and intolerable for principle alone. Why would I pay $3k for such a crap issue.

In my review I found the k525 improved from the k624 for chromatic aberration but it was still there. I probably should have done comparisons at white objects at distance because I have a feeling it would have been made more evident.

Get ready for ZCO!

 

[tna9001]

Guess nobody noticed, the photos of the TT & SB the point of aim puts the large targets closer to the center of FOV. The photos of the K525i the point of aim puts the large targets at the edge of the FOV.

It does look like the K525i lags the TT and S&B but that’s not really news. Those photos would of been more useful if the objects were in the same relative place for the different scopes.

 

[Msaon308]

Guess nobody noticed, the photos of the TT & SB the point of aim puts the large targets closer to the center of FOV. The photos of the K525i the point of aim puts the large targets at the edge of the FOV.

It does look like the K525i lags the TT and S&B but that’s not really news. Those photos would of been more useful if the objects were in the same relative place for the different scopes.

the FOV problem is a fact no matter how I took the photo......K525 FOV spec on their official website is about 20% smaller than SB PM2.

 

[tna9001]

the FOV problem is a fact no matter how I took the photo......K525 FOV spec on their official website is about 20% smaller than SB PM2.

I'm not talking about the FOV, I'm talking about the POA in the photos, with the TT and the S&B the POA was the same with the K525i the large targets are close to the edge of the FOV. Your photos show what everyone already knows, Kahles scopes have trouble with CA, the thing Kahles does very well is the eye-box and reticle design.

 

[DellaDog]

Looking forward to more samples. On the other hand, I dont think March is in the same league as these German/Austria glasses, esp. about optical performance.

Some would disagree...

“Resolution: in terms of ability to see detail far away, March is absolutely stunning. Up to 25x Premier and S&B were as good. However, March can take you up to 40x. That is not always useful, but when environmental conditions allow it…. like I said: stunning.”

High End Tactical Scopes, Part IV: The Heavyweights
Written by ILya Koshkin

 

[cageli]

Some would disagree...

“Resolution: in terms of ability to see detail far away, March is absolutely stunning. Up to 25x Premier and S&B were as good. However, March can take you up to 40x. That is not always useful, but when environmental conditions allow it…. like I said: stunning.”

High End Tactical Scopes, Part IV: The Heavyweights
Written by ILya Koshkin

Did you find that statement to be true in your March? Mine has given me opposite results.

 

[scocoabeach]

Those pictures are fantastic, thanks for posting. I'd love to see how the Minox ZP5 5-25 compares as well as the NF ATACR 7-35 and eventually the ZCO.

 

[DellaDog]

Did you find that statement to be true in your March? Mine has given me opposite results.

I’m really not qualified to answer as I currently only own a few March scopes (which I favor for the size, turrets and 10 yard parallax) and the Kahles 525. To be honest though, I think I would have noticed if the Kahles looked that shitty at 1k. I did a lot of zooming & staring at different targets from 700 to 1500 and distinctly remember making out the wire on barbed wire fence at 1k. I ended the day quite impressed.

I’ll take a much closer look at both this weekend.

 

[CSTactical]

I personally love the Kahles glass, I run the 3-18x and the 6-24x. I have not ran a 5-25x yet but from what I have seen on other shooters rifles I find it to be better than the 6-24x. The FOV is less than the 6-24x, I'm not sure if it's going to be an issuse. I understand the human eye can see things differently. I sold MY S&B to get the Kahles.

I also really like the Tangent Theta and the MINOX.

Mike @ CSTACTICAL

 

[Msaon308]

I personally love the Kahles glass, I run the 3-18x and the 6-24x. I have not ran a 5-25x yet but from what I have seen on other shooters rifles I find it to be better than the 6-24x. The FOV is less than the 6-24x, I'm not sure if it's going to be an issuse. I understand the human eye can see things differently. I sold MY S&B to get the Kahles.

I also really like the Tangent Theta and the MINOX.

Mike @ CSTACTICAL

Well, I guess at least you do not pay them at market price LOL.

 

[918v]

I see the S&B pics are out of focus judging by the sharpness of the reticle. The Tangent Theta and the K525 pics are in focus judging by their reticle focus.

 

[Falar]

Nice pic of the MSR2, first I've seen. The center dot is nice and small and .2 mil horizontal for wind, at least to 1 mil.

 

[blbennett1288]

That 1000 yard Tangent Theta image is truly impressive.

I will state that my K525 experience is not the same as @Msaon308 , but mimics more of @DellaDog 's experience. The image does deteriorate at anything above 18x. I typically run mine in the 12-18 mag range and the image is excellent.

I could not use a K624 because of the CA, believe me I looked through several and tried, which is ultimately why I went with an AMG instead. I sold the AMG to fund the K525 and do not regret it thus far. Yes, CA is still present but it is not nearly as bad as the K624 and is better than the k318. I would put the CA on par with what I saw in my T5Xi.

As far as image clarity/contrast/resolution I would put it as superior to the AMG. I have a simple test I run, there are power lines at ~700 yards. On those telephone poles are tags, about the size of an index card, with numbers, barcodes and labeling. Depending on how much I can make out on those pole tags determines to me the image quality. I was able to decern more with the K525 than the AMG.

 

[Msaon308]

I see the S&B pics are out of focus judging by the sharpness of the reticle. The Tangent Theta and the K525 pics are in focus judging by their reticle focus.

I forget to focus the pm2‘s reticle before I took the photo，will do retest on this weekend on 1000yd