KAC rifles worth the money?

#51
scatsob said:
Thank you for that link cobra. I am pretty sure I am going to do an M110K1 clone. It's just an ECC with the MAMS break, magpul furniture, and cerakoted taupe. They said they are not taking rifle orders until after Christmas at the earliest so I have some time to save up :).
Click to expand...

Your money bro buy whatever you like.

Personally I would go LMT unless I was swimming in enough money to where I didn't give a fuck and then I'd just plain buy everything.

Or JP just check out this guy's thread here:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-semi-auto-rifles/198348-some-jp-pron.html

BTW I think he used to own an SR25 ECC as well.
 
#54
scatsob said:
Thank you for that link cobra. I am pretty sure I am going to do an M110K1 clone. It's just an ECC with the MAMS break, magpul furniture, and cerakoted taupe. They said they are not taking rifle orders until after Christmas at the earliest so I have some time to save up :).
Click to expand...

Yea man they are pretty slick. I am not a huge fan of the MAMS break, but the guys who own them, swear by them. If I didn't just buy a SCAR17, I would be looking into a K2. LMT's are nice rifles, but they really don't hold a candle to the features and design of the SR25. Using them side by side... makes that apparant quickly.
 
#55
Yeah, I think most people would log this under "different strokes for different folks" and most all would not agree with my firearm purchasing paradigm. I collect military arms, and as such the likes of LaRue, LMT, et al do not appeal to me. I am also picky about the aesthetics of my rifles and KAC makes some sexy guns that also happen to be used by our military, so win win for me :). And my opinion, those JP guns are butt ugly :). I hate those breaks too. I guess my thread title is a little off from what I was really wanting to know which was there any reason not to own a KAC and in my research over the last few days I don't think there are any. Anyways, thanks all for the input.

BCP said:
Your money bro buy whatever you like.

Personally I would go LMT unless I was swimming in enough money to where I didn't give a fuck and then I'd just plain buy everything.

Or JP just check out this guy's thread here:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-semi-auto-rifles/198348-some-jp-pron.html

BTW I think he used to own an SR25 ECC as well.
Click to expand...
 
#56
#57
The Brit's got it right. The LMT out performed all the others. I was leaning towards an ECC but about crapped myself when I seen the sticker price. Went for the LMT and a USO optic. One of the best choice's I've ever made. Like the fact that you can Chang out barrel's and even make an SBR if need be.
 
#58
The internet is funny. Cant we all just agree that pretty much any AR10 platform will perform about as well as any other AR10 platform? I doubt that any one blows away all the rest. Some people will have a "bad" experience with a certain weapon and others will have great experiences. I understand the price part, but in trying to make an informed decision I am finding that there is enough technology in the KAC to justify the cost, which is not that bad if you are military.
 
#59
Ok......what technology does the KAC have that the others don't.....seriously?

Sand Cut serrations on the carrier......sure that *might* be useful if you were in that scenario that requires it.

Their E3 bolt head or what ever they are calling it? I don't think its ever been proven thats more effective than he normal one.

Am I missing anything else?
 
#60
poison123 said:
Ok......what technology does the KAC have that the others don't.....seriously?

Sand Cut serrations on the carrier......sure that *might* be useful if you were in that scenario that requires it.

Their E3 bolt head or what ever they are calling it? I don't think its ever been proven thats more effective than he normal one.

Am I missing anything else?
Click to expand...

Maybe you should fire up your google machine and find out for yourself, instead of being lazy and asking others to do it for you.

Since I'm already here you can start with:
Intermediate gas system coupled with propititary RE/Buffe/Spring that results in the softest shooting AR you can buy
Completley amidextrious lowers with QD cups built into the lower (older model) and started this before any other manufacture
One of, if not the best 2 stage trigger on the market. I put it up against any of my Geiselle's.


And as to your E3 Bolt comment.... Show me one E3 bolt that has failed or broken. Show me anothe rmanufacture that will Gaurentee their bolt for atleast 25,000 rounds, including SBR's.

You can do a search for broken AR15 bolts and you will find PLENTY. Do a Search for Broken E3 bolts and let me know what you come up with. Also keep in mind, that people who tend to Own SR15', shoot ALOT.

Most of the features and refinements you see on the AR15/10 platform are there beacuse KAC designed them over the years. They come up with the idea, R&D it, Test it, and put it to the market. Then companies comes along with the benefit of not having to do their own R&D, take those designs and principles and make pretty good guns. If it wasnt for KAC, there would be no MWS, GAP10, OBR, JP07,ect. Want to guess who used to work with KAC to come up with many of these inovations and designs? A man by the name of Eugene Stoner....... You know... The guys who invented the fucking AR15/AR10.

Would you like to know what SR as in SR15 and SR25 stand for?

Yes you missing everything.
 
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#61
Cobracutter said:
Maybe you should fire up your google machine and find out for yourself, instead of being lazy and asking others to do it for you.

Since I'm already here you can start with:
Intermediate gas system coupled with propititary RE/Buffe/Spring that results in the softest shooting AR you can buy
Completley amidextrious lowers with QD cups built into the lower (older model) and started this before any other manufacture
One of, if not the best 2 stage trigger on the market. I put it up against any of my Geiselle's.


And as to your E3 Bolt comment.... Show me one E3 bolt that has failed or broken. Show me anothe rmanufacture that will Gaurentee their bolt for atleast 25,000 rounds, including SBR's.

You can do a search for broken AR15 bolts and you will find PLENTY. Do a Search for Broken E3 bolts and let me know what you come up with. Also keep in mind, that people who tend to Own SR15', shoot ALOT.

Most of the features and refinements you see on the AR15/10 platform are there beacuse KAC designed them over the years. They come up with the idea, R&D it, Test it, and put it to the market. Then companies comes along with the benefit of not having to do their own R&D, take those designs and principles and make pretty good guns. If it wasnt for KAC, there would be no MWS, GAP10, OBR, JP07,ect. Want to guess who used to work with KAC to come up with many of these inovations and designs? A man by the name of Eugene Stoner....... You know... The guys who invented the fucking AR15/AR10.

Would you like to know what SR as in SR15 and SR25 stand for?

Yes you missing everything.
Click to expand...

SR. Seriously retorting?
 
#62
Well, I guess I’ll just waste my money on a KAC :). And what makes an LMT better than a DPMS? Same argument right? What makes an AI AX308 worth so much more than a custom 700? These are fun philosophical conversations.
 
#64
Your a fucking idiot cobra cutter its as simple as that.

1Intermediate gas system coupled with propititary RE/Buffe/Spring that results in the softest shooting AR you can buy
2Completley amidextrious lowers with QD cups built into the lower (older model) and started this before any other manufacture
3One of, if not the best 2 stage trigger on the market. I put it up against any of my Geiselle's.


1. Same felt recoil as the OBR and GAP10 I had awhile back. There is nothing special about that.
2. Ya takes a lot of R&D for this....
3. No where near the best and you know.

Your a fucking fanboy.
 
#66
guys if you want a KAC buy it, its your money. like anything people's opinions and experiences are trying to help you or save you money and heartache. 90 percent of you will never break 1000 rounds on the barrels of your sr25's, too many people here buy bolt guns that won't ever see a barrel replacement. So it doesn't really matter, its the same as a rich guy who buys a ferrari to park in his garage and only drive on sunny days or to show off. Its the god honest truth, i'm making no comment on any gun's quality only the excuses and justifications of the owners, whatever you guys have to say to make yourself feel better for spending the money. Why not just say I want one so i bought it, don't give me this aerospace magical pixie dust bullshit. Its the same excuse you get at a drag strip when a guy with a shiny expensive car gets his ass handed to him by the guy with the primer black nova. In the end its the indian, not the arrow. I don't care how high speed your gun is.
 
#67
I have owned several SR 25's and SR 15's.
I really like the SR 15's they shoot great and have great features.
SR 25's are good, but I no longer own one.
Worth the money?? SR 15's for sure are.
 
#68
About which part? I and I will say it, I want one because I want one. Like I said in a previous post, the thread title is a little deceiving. The reason I buy firearms is a lot different than why other people buy firearms. I bought an M24 rebuild because it is an M24, not because I thought it was the best M700 rifle out there.

poison123 said:
Now your being fucking stupid dude.
Click to expand...
 
#69
I tried to say that. But people who have never used them in poor conditions, like we have, will tell you you're wrong. Some KAC stuff is great,but most of it is not a true value. I have all kinds of stuff that's not the best of the best, but I bought it because I'm American and I wanted it....good enough.



BigJoe29 said:
guys if you want a KAC buy it, its your money. like anything people's opinions and experiences are trying to help you or save you money and heartache. 90 percent of you will never break 1000 rounds on the barrels of your sr25's, too many people here buy bolt guns that won't ever see a barrel replacement. So it doesn't really matter, its the same as a rich guy who buys a ferrari to park in his garage and only drive on sunny days or to show off. Its the god honest truth, i'm making no comment on any gun's quality only the excuses and justifications of the owners, whatever you guys have to say to make yourself feel better for spending the money. Why not just say I want one so i bought it, don't give me this aerospace magical pixie dust bullshit. Its the same excuse you get at a drag strip when a guy with a shiny expensive car gets his ass handed to him by the guy with the primer black nova. In the end its the indian, not the arrow. I don't care how high speed your gun is.
Click to expand...
 
#70
scatsob said:
About which part? I and I will say it, I want one because I want one. Like I said in a previous post, the thread title is a little deceiving. The reason I buy firearms is a lot different than why other people buy firearms. I bought an M24 rebuild because it is an M24, not because I thought it was the best M700 rifle out there.
Click to expand...

About what made those list of firearms more worth the cost than the others.

Take for instance a custom rem700 vs the AX. First are we talking about a trued rem700 action or aftermarket clone action like the Defiance or Surgeon?

If your talking about a trued remmy....ya if you build one up in a AX stock and essentially mimic everything you can vs the true AX. Your looking at roughly a 2000 - 2500 dollar difference between the two. Is the AI REALLY worth that over the remmy, nope. I've shot nothing but AI's for 4 years I'm a huge fanboy, but I'll be the first say that unless your jumping out of plane or whatever on a 2 way range, then no there's no real advantage, the AI has over the trued Remmy. Its personnel preference plain and simple.

If you want the KAC just buy it. No one is gonna give you shit because its what "YOU" wanted. Shoot it, don't shoot it...it doesn't matter. Where you will get crucified is if you start trying to give advice out about how awesome it is and you don't actually do anything on it.

I don't know cobracutters background, but he comes off as a asshole in virtually every thread on this forum.

I know bigjoe's background....and listen to his opinion and value it. But I still end up going against him on a lot of things just to get my own experience with it.


If the KAC is what you want get it, don't try collect opinions to justify it to yourself on here. Majority of the people on this site are completely full of shit and like others have mentioned, have never shot their rifles enough to truly warrant a good barrel cleaning let alone a rebarrel.
 
#71
LMT is and does outperform the others, that's a fact. The Brits did a thorough test on all 308 platforms that have been fore mentioned with the exception of the POF (I believe). I owned an EMC and it was impressive, just a picky eater with ammunition. The LMT on the other hand, can eat anything and can be abused more than it should and still put a less than MOA shot group on a hate lover at 100 yards. To each their own, but as for me, I wouldn't rely on any other rifle if my life depended on it.
 
#72
Delta4-3 said:
You forgot the part of my bio where I used them as a sniper, and the part where I used sr25's extensively as a decongestant contractor for the two biggest silencer companies, and the part where the only two SR25's on range 37 at Bragg (2011) also happened to be the only two rifles to fail catastrophically.

Good job making assumptions about people you've never met.

I would drink my own piss if I could find one person on this site who takes you seriously.
Click to expand...

And once again, all that shit was addressed, yet you decide to drag it in here. One of my best buds was a B4 / SOTIC with Recce/Sniper platoon in 2/75 for about 6 deployments between iraq and and afgan.... and he loved his MK-11.. So forgive me if I don't gobble up everything that comes out of your suck. Funny your problems are with the M110, yet you feel the need to comment on commcercial guns that are not the same. Nice try again guy.
 
#73
poison123 said:
Your a fucking idiot cobra cutter its as simple as that.

1Intermediate gas system coupled with propititary RE/Buffe/Spring that results in the softest shooting AR you can buy
2Completley amidextrious lowers with QD cups built into the lower (older model) and started this before any other manufacture
3One of, if not the best 2 stage trigger on the market. I put it up against any of my Geiselle's.


1. Same felt recoil as the OBR and GAP10 I had awhile back. There is nothing special about that.
2. Ya takes a lot of R&D for this....
3. No where near the best and you know.

Your a fucking fanboy.
Click to expand...

Ignorance is bliss. Everything that comes out of your sewer is bullshit

You havent shot shit so stop pretending.
 
#75
Patriot1776 said:
LMT is and does outperform the others, that's a fact. The Brits did a thorough test on all 308 platforms that have been fore mentioned with the exception of the POF (I believe). I owned an EMC and it was impressive, just a picky eater with ammunition. The LMT on the other hand, can eat anything and can be abused more than it should and still put a less than MOA shot group on a hate lover at 100 yards. To each their own, but as for me, I wouldn't rely on any other rifle if my life depended on it.
Click to expand...

Out performs how? being the heaviest and biggest bitch to lug around..... Yep... it wins that.
Outshooting a OBR, JP or GAP?...... Not going to fucking happen, expecially with that CL issue barrel.

A Scar does EVERYTHING a MWS does, is lighter, has less recoil, Is just as accurate, will feed any ammo you put into it, Same quality trigger (Both can take a gieselle, so its a wash) and is completley modular/ambidextrious, and can be Folded for Jump Ops and working in and around vehicles.

Stop pretending like one test from one entity is the end all be all of a weapon system.

So please, tell why the MWS is clearly the best there is?
 
#77
Leave the other folks alone and stop dogging their choices.

I like how you pussies like to bring up military experiences when you probably don't know shit. Don't have to be a veteran to know about our love for firearms. Truth be told, I could probably woop every single one of you candy ass video game playing punks with my good arm tied behind my nuts.
 
#78
i will tell you i hate the scar, hate it. i think FN is a horrible government contracted company. they didn't even send a mil sales rep to shot show last year. i think for a scar to even be halfway acceptable it takes about 1500 bucks in upgrades and it still leaves something to be desired. And please go on and tell me i'm wrong and its the most reliable amazing gun ever, i only had over 70 of the newest ones off the assembly line and put almost a 200k rounds through em the last two years and ran the newest test for SOCOM.... but what do i know. The program managers that come and teach the scar program to SOCOM don't like those guns.
 
#80
Cobracutter: Your the internet queen here my friend. Do the research. Mine was done doing joint exercises with the Brits. Their LMTs out performed our MK11's hands down. I'm sorry that I didn't include the "soft shooting" of the MK11 as a plus to what our needs were. Do everyone a favor and continue your dominance on those online video games. Fuckin Troll.

By the way, I love your gay ass CAB avatar. Do you feel important with it?
 
#81
Patriot1776 said:
Leave the other folks alone and stop dogging their choices.

I like how you pussies like to bring up military experiences when you probably don't know shit. Don't have to be a veteran to know about our love for firearms. Truth be told, I could probably woop every single one of you candy ass video game playing punks with my good arm tied behind my nuts.
Click to expand...

lmao its ok man its only the internet, everyone is a MMA fighter online
 
#82
BigJoe29 said:
i will tell you i hate the scar, hate it. i think FN is a horrible government contracted company. they didn't even send a mil sales rep to shot show last year. i think for a scar to even be halfway acceptable it takes about 1500 bucks in upgrades and it still leaves something to be desired. And please go on and tell me i'm wrong and its the most reliable amazing gun ever, i only had over 70 of the newest ones off the assembly line and put almost a 200k rounds through em the last two years and ran the newest test for SOCOM.... but what do i know. The program managers that come and teach the scar program to SOCOM don't like those guns.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on the SCAR. Friend of mine gives it too much praise, but to me it feels as if I could possibly break it by just rolling over on it.
 
#84
LMT's not being accurate is news to me, I had two MWS's with 16" CL barrels a gen 1 and gen 2 at the same time and they both shot lights out. I guess all those one hole groups with FGMM and my 178AMAX loads were just my imagination. My buddies OBR doesn't shoot that well and neither did any of the SCARS I got behind, the SCAR's were all MOA guns with match ammo and high mag optics... Very accurate for a piston driven battle gun but as a precision or DMR rifle there are more accurate choices.
 
#85
Hey guys and gals, just ignore Cobracutter. That dude is in over his head and wants to make other people miserable. My guess is he's a MEPS reject that couldn't get into the National Guard. What a loser.
 
#86
redneckbmxer24 said:
LMT's not being accurate is news to me, I had two MWS's with 16" CL barrels a gen 1 and gen 2 at the same time and they both shot lights out. I guess all those one hole groups with FGMM and my 178AMAX loads were just my imagination. My buddies OBR doesn't shoot that well and neither did any of the SCARS I got behind, the SCAR's were all MOA guns with match ammo and high mag optics... Very accurate for a piston driven battle gun but as a precision or DMR rifle there are more accurate choices.
Click to expand...

Don't pay attention to that idiot. LMT's are an outstanding platform.
 
#87
I concur, and while I don't know who you're addressing specifically, I'll lay claim to me being the biggest pussy in this thread. I damn near cry when I stub my toe. I will also say that I learned more about specific weapon's week points in the industry than I did in service. But military use gives some insight. However, the problem with taking a military guys advice on a platform, even a sniper's, is that most know only what they are issued and don't know that 9 out of 10 civilian offerings of the same genre are hands down, a better weapon. You can beat me with one hand behind your nuts, just don't try to beat me with your nuts please.

Patriot1776 said:
Leave the other folks alone and stop dogging their choices.

I like how you pussies like to bring up military experiences when you probably don't know shit. Don't have to be a veteran to know about our love for firearms. Truth be told, I could probably woop every single one of you candy ass video game playing punks with my good arm tied behind my nuts.
Click to expand...
 
#88
and this thread went down the shitter. As i was saying, fan boys of every flavor will talk down on anything they don't own to make themselves feel better on their purchase. Why not enjoy what you bought and shoot it till the barrel melts and not feel the need to justify it with some mystifying explanation on nuclear engineers formulating its design by the position of the planets and its correlation with space and time. WHO GIVES A FUCK. You like your KAC, dpms, lmt, larue etc more power to ya I refuse to stand by and have people say that one is the ONLY way to go, your dillusional and need medication. Just like there is no perfect answer to bolt guns, pistols, etc. "worth" the money is a relative question on how much you want to spend, return on investment, and resale and how much your worried about each one. Now you can all go back to drooling over your spotless guns in your gunsafe that somehow you think make you any closer to a tier one operator.

 
#90
Patriot1776 said:
Don't pay attention to that idiot. LMT's are an outstanding platform.
Click to expand...

I'm aware, on both accounts.

They were accurate as hell and the quick change barrel is a neat feature if you need something like that. I use it on my MRP but never found a reason to change barrels on either MWS so it was a moot point. My only complaint was the recoil was a bit higher than the SR25, and it weighed a little more. As a precision platform neither are major flaws but because of both I wouldn't choose it as a run and gun rifle although I know people use them that way. The Brits do a so do many 3 gun guys.
 
#91
Delta4-3 said:
I concur, and while I don't know who you're addressing specifically, I'll lay claim to me being the biggest pussy in this thread. I damn near cry when I stub my toe. I will also say that I learned more about specific weapon's week points in the industry than I did in service. But military use gives some insight. However, the problem with taking a military guys advice on a platform, even a sniper's, is that most know only what they are issued and don't know that 9 out of 10 civilian offerings of the same genre are hands down, a better weapon. You can beat me with one hand behind your nuts, just don't try to beat me with your nuts please.
Click to expand...

Not talking about you, brother. It was directed to Cobranutterbutter. Don't worry though, I wouldn't have beaten you with my nuts.
 
#93
Well what the he'll are we going to argue about now!? Oh yeah, you forgot handguns. My highpoint will smoke you're Glock any day of the week.


ETA: reading comprehension fail on my part. I got nothin.


BigJoe29 said:
and this thread went down the shitter. As i was saying, fan boys of every flavor will talk down on anything they don't own to make themselves feel better on their purchase. Why not enjoy what you bought and shoot it till the barrel melts and not feel the need to justify it with some mystifying explanation on nuclear engineers formulating its design by the position of the planets and its correlation with space and time. WHO GIVES A FUCK. You like your KAC, dpms, lmt, larue etc more power to ya I refuse to stand by and have people say that one is the ONLY way to go, your dillusional and need medication. Just like there is no perfect answer to bolt guns, pistols, etc. "worth" the money is a relative question on how much you want to spend, return on investment, and resale and how much your worried about each one. Now you can all go back to drooling over your spotless guns in your gunsafe that somehow you think make you any closer to a tier one operator.

Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
#94
Holy crap! This went full retard! I like my ECC as well as LMTLM8 MWS, GAP10 and REPR. some for vastly different reasons than others. I like my LMT enough that I bring it out every time we train/shoot. I have no regrets with any of them but I will say that my REPR gets shot the least.

To each his own but I hate seeing all these vets/combat vets and members getting all personal. IMO, the new SR25 variants are superior to the M110's as they are an original Spec that cannot be changed due to contractual obligations though.
 
#96
BigJoe29 said:
WHO GIVES A FUCK. You like your KAC, dpms, lmt, larue etc more power to ya I refuse to stand by and have people say that one is the ONLY way to go, your dillusional and need medication.
Click to expand...

Agreed. My first AR was a Bushmaster ORC for $800. I put a cheap red dot on it and proceded to abuse the shit out of it. When I was done I sold it. I miss that ole gun. Its like a chubby girl who gave you your first blow job. It wasnt that great, looking back, but it felt so right at the time.
 
Last edited:
#97
scatsob said:
Sorry guys, this is not what I had in mind. I will get a KAC because I want an M110K1 and that's pretty much it. Thank you to those of you that did serve, I will try to do you right in my own career.
Click to expand...

Thats where it's at brother. Get what you want, you deserve too. You will be happy with it. Would it be my first choice? No. But I wouldn't want you to get what I want, I would want you to get what makes YOU happy. Besides, most of the time I don't really know what I'm talking about (as CC pointed out, thanks sweetie ;) )
you sir, will enjoy your new rifle, and that's what it's all about.

If you don't mind though, I'm going to derail the shit out of this thread. Thanks for the intertainment brother!
 
#98
Scatsob,

I have a KAC Mk 11 Mod 0. I bought it quite a few years back before all the AR10/SR25 craze blew up. It is a great gun. When I drive it correctly it is a .5 MOA gun with my ammo that I worked up for her and I would never sell her because she is a laser. That being said if I were to purchase a .308 gas gun platform I would not be a KAC gun. Yes I love the looks of it, but my friend has a Predator Custom build that has a Larue rail and Rock barrel that shoots very well. My point is that there are a whole lot more options out there and you can dress it up any way you like with just about any barrel manufacturer you like. More competition equals better products for lower money.
 
#100
poison123 said:
Your a fucking idiot cobra cutter its as simple as that.

1Intermediate gas system coupled with propititary RE/Buffe/Spring that results in the softest shooting AR you can buy
2Completley amidextrious lowers with QD cups built into the lower (older model) and started this before any other manufacture
3One of, if not the best 2 stage trigger on the market. I put it up against any of my Geiselle's.


1. Same felt recoil as the OBR and GAP10 I had awhile back. There is nothing special about that.
2. Ya takes a lot of R&D for this....
3. No where near the best and you know.

Your a fucking fanboy.
Click to expand...

Guys please don't respond to Cobracutters abusive profanity laced responses demeaning anyone who disagrees with him. It just encourages his rants and nothing anyone says will convince him otherwise if it is contrary to his opinion. He just about ruined my thread asking about opinions on the LWRC SPR once again demeaning posters who disagree with him. The only thing I have ever agreed with him is the SR 15 is a great platform
Here is a link to my thread. As Yogi Berra said it is deja vu all over again.

Link to my thread. Note the same profane abusive rant once again.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...op-gun-supply-reputation-comments-please.html
Does the word hate monger come to mind?
 
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