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Kestrel 5700 w/ Hornady 4DOF
- Thread starter Lowlight
- Start date
indeed, the math is essentially the same
I preordered one as well. I've been using the shooter app until now and haven't used AB or 4Dof yet. I did download the 4dof app so I could start start playing around with it. Although limited it does have more than just Hornady bullets in the library. June shipping should be close to my Nightforce 7-35x56 mil-xt shipping also and just picked up my 375 BAS today.
Right. Didn't mean to insinuate it only worked with Hornady bullets, rather that this far it seems like most of their Doppler "4dof" data was with their own bullets.
Sure you can add bullets manually, but then we're back to g1/g7 profiles again. I'd be interested to see if it arrives at a different result due to a different solver, but I sorta doubt it.
Just seems like the real value of these devices is 'better than g1/g7' flight data. Rather than a scaled percentage of a model, actual flight data and a custom drag model for a given projectile seems to be more accurate with solutions than g1/g7 which often need truing.
Hornadys library of flight data may well be more accurate (again, would love to see comparisons) but the library size is quite a bit smaller, no?
Frank, do you know if they plan to start testing a larger number of bullet makes/models with their Doppler? A rival library like that would really push both Hornady and Applied Ballistics to up their game.
*Sort of answered my own question looking through their 4dof list, they are adding more! Some Sierra, Berger, Lapua, Nosler etc in there now.
Be interesting to see if the solutions are more accurate than the AB model at/above 1500yds.
Honestly, the normal super sonic stuff has never been the issue for any solver.. It is when looking for a curve that is accurate from close range all the way to when the projectile has spent long time transonic; where most solvers have issues.. even the custom curves. Historically, guys create and tune to one side or the other. If you adopt that either or strategy, most solvers work to amazing distances; but of course that still often means 2 profiles. The current trend of benchrest ELR shooters really don't care about the close and intermediate ranges.. so one tuned curve works for them.
CB and FFS still seem to have something in them that models the increased transonic drag better.. as a single source curve.
So the real question is how welll 4DOF do as a single source near to ELR solution. Unfortunately, that is a very long antidotal and expensive manual process to prove. More importantly, most of todays ELR shooters just don't care.. not sure the economics make sense for someone to prove it the curves from near to deep transonic across multiple calibers.
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Man nice you are in here.. but your link seemed 1/2 hearted and it just about killed me with my type A personality.
@918v so to me it looks like the short answer is ...hummm
Because not all laser rangefinder manufacturers use the Kestrel Ballistics Bluetooth Protocol to talk to a Kestrel, the Hornady Kestrel cannot communicate with some rangefinders which can talk to our existing ballistics meters. The Hornady Kestrel can currently communicate with the following rangefinders.Man nice you are in here.. but your link seemed 1/2 hearted and it just about killed me with my type A personality.
@918v so to me it looks like the short answer is ...hummm
- Leica Rangemaster CRF 2800.com
- Vectronix Terrapin X
- Bushnell Elite 1 Mile CONX
When the meter becomes available mid June there will be normal distribution channels.
Hi,
Companies typically listen to other companies more easily than from End Users.
Austin and Michael should be all over this in regards to growing Kestrels market to other supporting products since it directly influences Kestrels growth in regards to Product management and product development.
For example:
Michael will have much better success rate at communicating directly with appropriate person at Vectronix than an End User. End Users gets stuck talking to customer support that may or may not pass the information up the ladder.
Sincerely,
Theis
Why can’t you answer the question? The PLRF25 has no problem communicating with the Kestrel AB.
The answer has been posted before:
Because not all laser rangefinder manufacturers use the Kestrel Ballistics Bluetooth Protocol to talk to a Kestrel, the Hornady Kestrel cannot communicate with some rangefinders which can talk to our existing ballistics meters. The Hornady Kestrel can currently communicate with the following rangefinders.
Because not all laser rangefinder manufacturers use the Kestrel Ballistics Bluetooth Protocol to talk to a Kestrel, the Hornady Kestrel cannot communicate with some rangefinders which can talk to our existing ballistics meters. The Hornady Kestrel can currently communicate with the following rangefinders.
- Leica Rangemaster CRF 2800.com
- Vectronix Terrapin X
- Bushnell Elite 1 Mile CONX
I have been considering a kestrel although I admit I know very little about them. I dis see that all the other version of this model (5700) have the MV Calibration Guide while the new Hornady version does not. Is there a reason for this?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Hornady uses Axial Form Factor to adjust the calculations to match your real world results. AB uses MV Calculation and DSF. Different methods but both make the adjustments necessary to fine tune the computed results to your rifle's performance.
I pre ordered. I figure if I like the Hornady version better I can always list my AB Elite in the classifieds and lose my ass on it.
When these come out, someone who has both should do an A/B comparison and let the forum know about the results. Kestrel is obviously in a place in which they cannot say one is better than the other, but independent reviewers are not in the same position. The comparison chart recently posted shows differences that can be accounted for in how the software works or artificially (or perhaps the memory is only a few K on the Hornady model) limited.
I know there are a number of us (myself included) who just want to know which is the better ballistic solver, overall, quantitatively. We all know about the ballistic library, but assuming drag curves exist, which is more accurate once matched to a rifle? Which is more easily matched to a rifle? These (and many other) questions are what matter, and it's unfortunate right now that there are no great answers.
I know there are a number of us (myself included) who just want to know which is the better ballistic solver, overall, quantitatively. We all know about the ballistic library, but assuming drag curves exist, which is more accurate once matched to a rifle? Which is more easily matched to a rifle? These (and many other) questions are what matter, and it's unfortunate right now that there are no great answers.
Well the Hornady shooters are going to get a bigger advantage to the Hornady version whereas the other brand bullet/ammo shooters may be better off with AB. Both will work for any combination of bullet/powder, just more tuned detail for Hornady - Yes I know that Hornady has other brand bullets Dopplered now, but not all of them.
How about user defined cdm?
An example:
1. Add a new load with BC or cdm near your bullet
2. Start correcting it via inputting drop data according to your results
3. The final product is a custom curve for a custom bullet
Would this be possible? This scenario is similar to DSF I believe. But like this a precise dope table could be created without having Hornady test and publish it themselves.
An example:
1. Add a new load with BC or cdm near your bullet
2. Start correcting it via inputting drop data according to your results
3. The final product is a custom curve for a custom bullet
Would this be possible? This scenario is similar to DSF I believe. But like this a precise dope table could be created without having Hornady test and publish it themselves.
Have not used a Kestral, but would like to get one at this point. I'm on the fence between the Hornady version and the AB Elite version. Hornady has a "Zero Angle" calc and the AB has a "Zero Offset" calc. What do these calcs do, and is one way more important than the other? I'm starting at square one on solution calculations, so big learning curve for me. Thanks!!
I went ahead and pre-ordered one. Hope it is a little easier then the free version for an iPhone. Actually like the Streloc Pro and Sooter versions better.
Zero Angle seems to be just very carefully made zero with the current atmospherics (Temperature, Air pressure, Humidity). It calculates the angle between the scope and the barrel and uses that for some fancy calculations. I have understood that Hornady uses more complicated calculations but I have nothing to back that up and AB has a VERY good track record.
Taking notes of the zeroing weather to the software allows it to calculate changes in changing weather.
But AB does this atmospherics correction as well, because that is the idea in the Kestrel to begin with!
Offset means that your scope is zeroed for one bullet at 0,0mil and for another round that hits higher it is 0.3. This way you can just dial what the Kestrel gives you and you do not have to count it in your head.
Very good use for offset is if you run the same optic in multiple guns.
Just take note of the turret reading at 100yds and input that as the offset value.
When you then shoot to 300yds you can read the dial value straight from Kestrel.
I really do not like Hornady app very much, but have not used the CDM side at all yet. Maybe the BC side is just worse.
I like Strelok Pro, it is very easy to use and straight-forward.
Nothing forces you to use AB Kestrel with AB app or Hornady's Kestrel with Hornady app. Or with any app at all.
I am going to run it just by itself expect for few situations.
I bought the AB Kestrel.
Thanks for the explanation , helps a lot. I'm trying to compare both of the apps, to see which one will work the best for me.
Same here, still figuring if I should take the Hornady instead. This is the problem with too many good options ?
I guess that I am sold to the DSF, offset and range card on the Elite.
FYI, the code is still active. Hopefully it still is by next payday too, I'm totally in on this one ever since AB killed off updates and support for the 4500 after they came out with their 5700.
So, if you do decide to release later, would we be able to upgrade the firmware like you can on the current 5700?
For now we are just focused on getting the Hornady Kestrel out successfully. nothing beyond that is in the works.
Probably should be asked in the "stupid questions section" but........ , since a rep from Kestrel is on here I will ask anyway. My iPhone Hornady shooting app with 4DOF doesn't give me the option if giving my readings in "clicks", only MOA. Will this be how the software performs when it is integrated with your 5700?
Clicks 0-10 in Mil, TMOA and SMOA are available in the Hornady Kestrel.
I'm a fan of the Hornady ballistics models - so far it has been more accurate for me shooting Hornady 140gr ELD match than other stock G7 models.
However, an alternative is to download the free Hornady iPhone app and add a Weatherflow precision shooting weather meter for $85 and get almost all of the functionality. The Weatherflow precision does pair up via bluetooth with the Hornady phone app and it provides temperature, humidity, pressure and wind readings. I have a Weatherflow and it connects up just fine with the Hornady App.
The only feature you would be missing would be a direct connection to your rangefinder. You can set azimuth and shooting angle using the phone.
However, an alternative is to download the free Hornady iPhone app and add a Weatherflow precision shooting weather meter for $85 and get almost all of the functionality. The Weatherflow precision does pair up via bluetooth with the Hornady phone app and it provides temperature, humidity, pressure and wind readings. I have a Weatherflow and it connects up just fine with the Hornady App.
The only feature you would be missing would be a direct connection to your rangefinder. You can set azimuth and shooting angle using the phone.
Hopoe so, but 4DOF in general does not have that functionality - and they need it.
