Kestrel Rant

[Rootshot]

My Kestrel is a love-hate relationship. I love it because it is a well made and accurate product. The battery life is phenomenal. The UI usability isn't exactly the most intuitive, but OK once you invest time to learn it. I hate it because I'm personally unhappy with their inability (unwillingness?) to repair a unit after the warranty expires.

A friend of mine and I both had the same problem - an alkaline battery leaked in the device. The company has no repair option for this. You device is simply scrap or can be traded in for a new model for a trade-in value (~$70) against retail pricing that simply doesn't make it worth it.

I won't buy a new one because I see battery leakage causing permanent damage this as a design flaw. There is no reason that the plastic case can't be molded in a manner that separates the sensitive electronics from the battery compartment.

Another gripe is that there is no stable way to place the kestrel on a bench for observation while shooting without buying a third-party tripod mount. Why not just mold-in a 1/4-20 socket for mounting to a variety of tripods? Related to this, if I am measuring cross-wind, the screen is positioned in a manner that I can't easily see it.

What advice can you give on replacement devices?

p.s. Moral of the story - Don't leave an alkaline battery in your Kestrel.

 

[diverdon]

I 100% agree that what Kestral's do to batteries is a design flaw. I know they tell you to only use the disposable lithium batteries, but that is BS too because those things are expensive and they do not last very long due to the same design defect that kills the alkaline batteries. I wonder if a battery company paid them to make the unit use so many batteries.

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I remember the admonishment in the manual but I had my Kestrel sitting here so I looked at the unit. No warning about no using alkaline batteries on the unit. Are you really supposed to remember that is a restriction? I probably have over 100 AA devices in my house, and I'm supposed to remember that one of them doesn't take the most common batteries? At least mold a warning into the battery compartment. And frankly, how do they get away with saying that you can't use AA batteries in a AA device? How is that not a design flaw, of serious- near recall level- importance?

 

[SubOptimal]

I don't own or use a Kestral, but I so have lots of other AA battery driven devices.
Is it so much trouble, when packing your range bag, to drop in a new battery?
Is it so much trouble, when coming home, to remove the battery from the device?
The thing was not designed to be a 24/7 weather station.
It should be a simple matter for any competent electronics technician to modify the device to use an external power pack. Yeah, I know, an extra part to carry, big deal.

 

[SLG]

Any device I use in the field gets lithium batteries, just for their improved performance, so this restriction doesnt bother me.

Having to remove and install the battery every time I wanted to use it would drive me nuts and probably be a deal breaker.

 

[_Windrider_]

i leave mine in direct sun at the range all day. no issues. i never take the batteries out. no issues. i use lithium batteries in all my field equipment. alkaline batteries are not meant for long term exposure to heat, neither is lithium really but they handle it much better.

 

[Rootshot]

Glad to hear my observations are shared by at least a few others.

I've also been playing with a Weatherflow bluetooth enabled meter. Looks good on paper, but the connectivity to the phone is a bit unreliable. There are no indicators on the device or on the phone that the device is connected or when it decides to go to sleep. App support is also limited and using it with the Shooter ballistics app (my personal favorite) is buggy.

 

[Rootshot]

The thing was not designed to be a 24/7 weather station.

Not sure why you say this, especially since you don't own one. I think it was designed to continuously record info. It records and reports environment history over time and there are settings for how frequently to take readings (more frequent = less battery life). I used this to monitor humidity levels in the basement room I kept by gunsafe in. It can go years on a single battery.

If you do remove the battery, it requires re-entering date, time, etc. and I think it loses the "favorite" screens configuration (not 100% on this one).

On the use of Lithium batteries....I don't remember reading this in the manual (I do read manuals). Perhaps this is something that was added to recent manuals. I bought mine over 5 years ago.

 

[blbennett1288]

Glad to hear my observations are shared by at least a few others.

I've also been playing with a Weatherflow bluetooth enabled meter. Looks good on paper, but the connectivity to the phone is a bit unreliable. There are no indicators on the device or on the phone that the device is connected or when it decides to go to sleep. App support is also limited and using it with the Shooter ballistics app (my personal favorite) is buggy.

I used a weatherflow meter with Ballistic ARC for a long time. Yes the connectivity is spotty and sometimes I had to power down my phone and turn it back on to get it to connect to the weathermeter. Another downside is the weatherflow meter uses bluetooth which absolutely drains my phones battery.

 

[morganlamprecht]

On the use of Lithium batteries....I don't remember reading this in the manual (I do read manuals). Perhaps this is something that was added to recent manuals. I bought mine over 5 years ago.

the new kestrel 5700s do have a sealed battery compartment...maybe things change in 5 yrs......

"Battery door is in the back, sealed away from the motherboard, should your battery leak as was common with all the 4000 series "

quoted right off the kestrel site

 

[Rootshot]

the new kestrel 5700s do have a sealed battery compartment...maybe things change in 5 yrs......

"Battery door is in the back, sealed away from the motherboard, should your battery leak as was common with all the 4000 series "

quoted right off the kestrel site

Good to know! Glad they addressed this design weakness. Mine was unfortunately a 4000 NV and is now dead as a rock

 

[TheGerman]

i leave mine in direct sun at the range all day. no issues. i never take the batteries out. no issues. i use lithium batteries in all my field equipment. alkaline batteries are not meant for long term exposure to heat, neither is lithium really but they handle it much better.

Goddammit, I read all your posts in the voice of your avatar now.

 

[_Windrider_]

Goddammit, I read all your posts in the voice of your avatar now.

HAHAHA Siwwy German.

 

[Rootshot]

I just saw the Kestrel has a rep here on the hide. @Kestrel Ballistics - curious to hear your thoughts on this thread

 

[pitdog85]

Can someone confirm which battery the kestrels come with? Do they come with lithium battery's? Mine is relatively new so haven't had to change battery yet but I live in the tropics and don't want the issue the OP had. Mine is the 2500 model I think only reads, wind, temp, pressure not humidity.

 

[Steel+Killer]

Can someone confirm which battery the kestrels come with? Do they come with lithium battery's? Mine is relatively new so haven't had to change battery yet but I live in the tropics and don't want the issue the OP had. Mine is the 2500 model I think only reads, wind, temp, pressure not humidity.

My 5700 Elite came with a lithium battery had it a few months.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

These are the only batteries you should use in a Kestrel. http://www.energizer.com/batteries/energizer-ultimate-lithium-batteries

 

[Sogan]

These are the only batteries you should use in a Kestrel. http://www.energizer.com/batteries/energizer-ultimate-lithium-batteries

I have these in mine and have not had an issue to date

 

[LawnMM]

So the gripe is that lithium batteries are too expensive, but they aren't killing the units they power. How much are you saving with the shitty alkaline batteries?

Is it enough to recoup the loss of the unit? Penny wise, pound foolish.

 

[MarinePMI]

So the gripe is that lithium batteries are too expensive, but they aren't killing the units they power. How much are you saving with the shitty alkaline batteries?

Is it enough to recoup the loss of the unit? Penny wise, pound foolish.

As much as I bitch about the crappy interface s/w and Win 10 for the 4500, LawnMM hits the nail on the head. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish. Use the correct batteries. I'm near the point of upgrading to the 5700, and hoping it is a refinement of the early 4500 model (which works fine in the field, but is a bit kludgy in the software department).

 

[pitdog85]

These are the only batteries you should use in a Kestrel. http://www.energizer.com/batteries/energizer-ultimate-lithium-batteries

Doc do all kestrel models come with these as standard?

 

[CavReconScout]

I'm near the point of upgrading to the 5700, and hoping it is a refinement of the early 4500 model (which works fine in the field, but is a bit kludgy in the software department).

I upgraded from the 4500 to the 5700. In my opinion the software in the 5700 is far better, and the interface with the app (I use the iPhone and iPad app) is much easier than the Windows interface with the 4500. While the 4500 worked for me I am extremely pleased that I upgraded.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

Check to see if there's a warranty with the batteries. When I had a kestrel 4000 the rayovac batteries that came with it leaked and destroyed the unit. Kestrel offered to give me the small trade in value but I tried my luck with rayovac and their warranty says that if their batteries destroy an electronic device theyll make it right essentially. The process with their CS department was smooth and I think it was two weeks later I hade a check for the value of a kestrel 4000 which bought a new 4500 NV outright off amazon.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

Doc do all kestrel models come with these as standard?

Yes.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

Check to see if there's a warranty with the batteries. When I had a kestrel 4000 the rayovac batteries that came with it leaked and destroyed the unit. Kestrel offered to give me the small trade in value but I tried my luck with rayovac and their warranty says that if their batteries destroy an electronic device theyll make it right essentially. The process with their CS department was smooth and I think it was two weeks later I hade a check for the value of a kestrel 4000 which bought a new 4500 NV outright off amazon.

If you buy it with a credit card, this is the case sometimes as well. Some companies give extended warranties on purchases made with their card.

 

[Mudlol]

Kestrels are over priced. I’m still trying to figure out if is worth it.

 

[Mattio]

Save for the Elite... the custom drag models really set it apart even from the 5700.

 

[MarinePMI]

Kestrels are over priced. I’m still trying to figure out if is worth it.

Sort of agree. But there isn't much else out there like it, and unless you can code an arduino and have some time on your hands, they're pretty much it for now. (Yeah, we have a guy at our range that made his own Kestrel.)

 

[Arc Light]

I had an older Kestrel 4500 ruined by a leaking alkaline battery. Pissed me off, but it was my fault as I left in the device for months without checking.

Bought a new one recently and noticed Kestrel clearly recommends a lithium battery to prevent leakage. I buy a pack of 4 AA lithiums at Wally World and replace them often now.

 

[gonzaga]

My 5700 came with lithium battery. So I replace with the same. Battery life is so much better.

 

[davere]

Lithium batteries have two weaknesses (well, probably more, but two that I'm aware of) - they don't like to be cold, and when they die, the voltage level just drops off a cliff.

In cold conditions (we never shoot in the cold, do we?) the batteries get chewed faster. You can help that out by keeping the device in a pocket that will be warmed by body heat - but then your Kestrel is at body heat, so you definitely need to swing it a bit before trusting the environmentals. The voltage level will come back to some degree when the battery is warmed up to normal. At the Lone Survivor match this year, my Kestrel went from 100% to 37% the first day. It was back up to 98% the next day, after warming up in the hotel. Go figure...

The second point means that it's kind of hard for a device to accurately monitor battery life down to the nth degree. Depending on the battery, you might have the device showing 40% charge left, and then boom, it's dead. Laptops, cell phones, etc, employ a lot of electronics to work around that problem, but the Kestrel likely does not.

All of that is to say... keep a couple spares in the bag. Batteries are consumable. Lithium AA cells are not that expensive, in the end.

 

[Sogan]

Lithium batteries have two weaknesses (well, probably more, but two that I'm aware of) - they don't like to be cold, and when they die, the voltage level just drops off a cliff.

In cold conditions (we never shoot in the cold, do we?) the batteries get chewed faster. You can help that out by keeping the device in a pocket that will be warmed by body heat - but then your Kestrel is at body heat, so you definitely need to swing it a bit before trusting the environmentals. The voltage level will come back to some degree when the battery is warmed up to normal. At the Lone Survivor match this year, my Kestrel went from 100% to 37% the first day. It was back up to 98% the next day, after warming up in the hotel. Go figure...

The second point means that it's kind of hard for a device to accurately monitor battery life down to the nth degree. Depending on the battery, you might have the device showing 40% charge left, and then boom, it's dead. Laptops, cell phones, etc, employ a lot of electronics to work around that problem, but the Kestrel likely does not.

All of that is to say... keep a couple spares in the bag. Batteries are consumable. Lithium AA cells are not that expensive, in the end.

I know you specifically mention lithium but I’m pretty sure all batteries suffer from extreme cold issues

 

[davere]

I know you specifically mention lithium but I’m pretty sure all batteries suffer from extreme cold issues

It's simple chemical kinetics - most chemical reactions slow down in the cold. All chemical batteries (which is all batteries, I think?) are affected by temperature to some degree. I've read some reports that suggest that Lithium based batteries should do better in the cold than alkaline, actually, but that doesn't seem to be true in practice (possibly due to the same phenomenon that causes their voltage to drop more quickly as they wear out? I don't know on that).

 

[scharfschutze762]

FYI the kestrel screen freezes up in extreme cold. At around -10F the screen completely freezes and this is confirmed by the factory. the milspec PDAs were working to much colder temp.

 

[damoncali]

I still don't get why people buy them. There are many much cheaper options that do the job just as well, although I've yet to find one that has a rotating impeller so you can read a cross wind, which would be nice.

 

[morganlamprecht]

I still don't get why people buy them. There are many much cheaper options that do the job just as well, although I've yet to find one that has a rotating impeller so you can read a cross wind, which would be nice.

convenience

 

[Sniperwannabee]

I have these in mine and have not had an issue to date

Me too

 

[Acer76]

Check to see if there's a warranty with the batteries. When I had a kestrel 4000 the rayovac batteries that came with it leaked and destroyed the unit. Kestrel offered to give me the small trade in value but I tried my luck with rayovac and their warranty says that if their batteries destroy an electronic device theyll make it right essentially. The process with their CS department was smooth and I think it was two weeks later I hade a check for the value of a kestrel 4000 which bought a new 4500 NV outright off amazon.

This is incredible. And more than enough to inspire loyalty for that brand.

I’m calling too good to be true. But if it is, why not become a dedicated rayovac guy?
@Trigger Monkey , you work for rayovac or own stock or what... lol

 

[Trigger Monkey]

What's too good to be true? That a manufacturer resolved an issue that was created by one of their products? I call that the way things should be. At any rate, I'm not a dedicated Rayovac guy because there's no point in being brand loyal when it comes to batteries. Three of the major battery manufacturers have basically the same warranty language and claims process in the event their batteries damage a device. I just happen to have been using Rayovac at the time one damaged my old Kestrel and I was sharing my experience that the process going through them was pretty smooth.

Here are the warranties from the three most popular battery makers I see around town.

Rayovac Warranty

Energizer Warranty

Duracell Warranty (bottom of page)

My point is that although Kestrel itself doesn't warranty damage due to battery leakage, you may still be covered through the battery manufacturer and have better chance of coming out with a new Kestrel for less out of pocket expense then going to Kestrel.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

What's too good to be true? That a manufacturer resolved an issue that was created by one of their products? I call that the way things should be. At any rate, I'm not a dedicated Rayovac guy because there's no point in being brand loyal when it comes to batteries. Three of the major battery manufacturers have basically the same warranty language and claims process in the event their batteries damage a device. I just happen to have been using Rayovac at the time one damaged my old Kestrel and I was sharing my experience that the process going through them was pretty smooth.

Here are the warranties from the three most popular battery makers I see around town.

Rayovac Warranty

Energizer Warranty

Duracell Warranty (bottom of page)

My point is that although Kestrel itself doesn't warranty damage due to battery leakage, you may still be covered through the battery manufacturer and have better chance of coming out with a new Kestrel for less out of pocket expense then going to Kestrel.

Thanks for posting, that is good to know

 

[Acer76]

What's too good to be true? That a manufacturer resolved an issue that was created by one of their products? I call that the way things should be. At any rate, I'm not a dedicated Rayovac guy because there's no point in being brand loyal when it comes to batteries. Three of the major battery manufacturers have basically the same warranty language and claims process in the event their batteries damage a device. I just happen to have been using Rayovac at the time one damaged my old Kestrel and I was sharing my experience that the process going through them was pretty smooth.

Here are the warranties from the three most popular battery makers I see around town.

Rayovac Warranty

Energizer Warranty

Duracell Warranty (bottom of page)

My point is that although Kestrel itself doesn't warranty damage due to battery leakage, you may still be covered through the battery manufacturer and have better chance of coming out with a new Kestrel for less out of pocket expense then going to Kestrel.

Point taken and thanks for sharing the valuable info! That’s an angle (battery coverage) I think many would not have found and many would certainly benefit from.

I appreciated your approach and thought I’d rob you a little. No serious challenge to veracity intended.

 

[Acer76]

Point taken and thanks for sharing the valuable info! That’s an angle (battery coverage) I think many would not have found and many would certainly benefit from.

I appreciated your approach and thought I’d rob you a little. No serious challenge to veracity intended.

—Can’t edit my post—
Meant to say *rib not “rob”

 

[Sniperwannabee]

—Can’t edit my post—
Meant to say *rib not “rob”

Turn your phone sideways

 

[Rootshot]

Thanks for the info on battery coverage. I called Energizer and they do require pictures / proof of their battery failure. Unfortunately I threw away the batteries before mailing my Kestrel in for service

 

[TheGerman]

Kestrels are over priced. I’m still trying to figure out if is worth it.

Yes and no. Depends what you are doing.

Shooting at closer distances or use JBM and print out/make your own range cards, you dont need one.

Problem comes with being more accurate on first round hits = knowing the temp and DA as your range card will change as they change.

I next to never use the Kestrel for wind, which is ironic because when I bought my first one 12+ years ago, I figured it was primarily for wind. Now I only test myself on wind while I'm out; I'll bracket the wind and check how close I am via the Kestrel.

 

[MarinePMI]

Yes and no. Depends what you are doing.

Shooting at closer distances or use JBM and print out/make your own range cards, you dont need one.

Problem comes with being more accurate on first round hits = knowing the temp and DA as your range card will change as they change.

I next to never use the Kestrel for wind, which is ironic because when I bought my first one 12+ years ago, I figured it was primarily for wind. Now I only test myself on wind while I'm out; I'll bracket the wind and check how close I am via the Kestrel.

Ditto on hardly ever using it for wind. I just set it for a 0 and 5mph constant at 90*, and use that as a yardstick to calculate the wind in my head. Much like (and very similar) to the BC method of wind calling. When I use it for the wind, is when it picks up over 12-15mph. With the mirage gone, and practically all the vegetation moving; that's when the wind meter aspect of the kestrel comes in handy.

 

[Kestrel Ballistics]

Hey gang,
Somehow we missed this thread! I would be more than happy to answer questions you all have on this topic.

For starters, yes the old 4/4500 series had what turned out to be a “design flaw” that allowed for corrosion to penetrate the mother board. The reason we can’t repair them is because it causes us to open the unit up, compromising the integrity of the unit.

Alkaline batteries have a tendency to leak/corrode. We do recommend lithium batteries. They are pricier, but are the much safer option. Using alkaline batteries on the range is fine, you’ll run into trouble if you leave them in there for a while unused. If you must use alkaline, we suggest removing them if the Kestrel is sitting idle for a while.

The new redesigned 5 series has a barrier now protecting the mother board from corrosion. I can post some pictures showing this if desired. These run on a single AA battery so battery life is much better.

If you have any questions we are available on here via direct message, by email at [email protected] or by phone 610-447-1555 option 5. Our hours are 9-5 EST M-TH and 8-4 EST Friday’s.

For Kestrel, you’ll most likely get me, my name is Andrew.
If I’m busy or on another call Joe will also be able to help. Please feel free to reach out with any questions.

 

[Mudlol]

Hey gang,
Somehow we missed this thread! I would be more than happy to answer questions you all have on this topic.

For starters, yes the old 4/4500 series had what turned out to be a “design flaw” that allowed for corrosion to penetrate the mother board. The reason we can’t repair them is because it causes us to open the unit up, compromising the integrity of the unit.

Alkaline batteries have a tendency to leak/corrode. We do recommend lithium batteries. They are pricier, but are the much safer option. Using alkaline batteries on the range is fine, you’ll run into trouble if you leave them in there for a while unused. If you must use alkaline, we suggest removing them if the Kestrel is sitting idle for a while.

The new redesigned 5 series has a barrier now protecting the mother board from corrosion. I can post some pictures showing this if desired. These run on a single AA battery so battery life is much better.

If you have any questions we are available on here via direct message, by email at [email protected] or by phone 610-447-1555 option 5. Our hours are 9-5 EST M-TH and 8-4 EST Friday’s.

For Kestrel, you’ll most likely get me, my name is Andrew.
If I’m busy or on another call Joe will also be able to help. Please feel free to reach out with any questions.

Does Kestrel warranty cover the design flaw? I know a couple of people who Kestrels where ruined because of batteries that leaked.

 

[Kestrel Ballistics]

Does Kestrel warranty cover the design flaw? I know a couple of people who Kestrels where ruined because of batteries that leaked.

We do have a policy which is manufacturing date specific. If you know people who have had issues, please have them contact me directly. We will do everything we can to help them out.

My direct email is [email protected]

 

[Mudlol]

Thanks, I will let them know.