Kilo & AB difference

[Bigwheels]

Ran the same data through both units & didn't get the same results. Had to adjust MV on the Kilo up 25fps to match.
Anyone know why?
I entered the exact same data the Kilo app showed @ 818yds & the Kilo was .5 mil higher.

 

[_Windrider_]

If I had to guess and you are absolutely positive all the inputs are identical, it’s probably a combination of Aj, CF and whatever else AB adds in. Turn all those off and then see what you get.

 

[Bigwheels]

Everything was off. SD COR etc all off. Both Syrelok Pro & AB gave the same dope but the Kilo 2400 was higher by .5 mil. All same entries in all 3.

 

[NVScout]

Everything was off. SD COR etc all off. Both Syrelok Pro & AB gave the same dope but the Kilo 2400 was higher by .5 mil. All same entries in all 3.

I’ve had the same experience with my 2400. Call AB and they said to just fudge the MV ...... lame !

 

[Dthomas3523]

Unfortunately, we (as in people, generally, not me) haven’t perfected the math behind ballistics and bullet flight.

Also, I’m assuming different versions of AB do things slightly different. This is an assumption based on things like on the 701 you can turn off ADJ and on kestrel you have to use zero in wind 1.

So, considering this, it’s not surprising that one piece of gear with AB may be slightly different than another. If your data lines up with a slight tweak in MV, I wouldn’t sweat it.

 

[_Windrider_]

IMHO, this is, and other examples, are a total failure on the part of AB. @DocUSMCRetired you have got to fix this stuff. These nuances are destroying your user base. When someone is buying into the AB ecosystem (by someone I mean Sig, kestrel, Garmin, etc), they either run it wide open or not at all. Everything should function identically as say AB mobile (that should be the baseline). Waiting a year plus for bugs to be fixed (ie iPad drop chart formatting) is unacceptable. I’ve always used your products, been to the seminars, etc etc. but I’m finding myself using TRASOL more and more and sticking to FFS and coldbore. Unless you guys figure out how to make two devices show the same result, I won’t be the only one.

 

[Bigwheels]

I agree. I've never really been an AB fan. Been using FFSIII for years but I decided to try the app & it was Ok. Then decided to try the Kilo2400 & it's ok for what it is. But I was expecting to have the same program as AB mobile in it. I'm probably going to keep it just for hunting since it's accurate enough out to 1000 and small enough with the solution & lrf in 1. But I still use FFS & now 4DOF for when I need to reach out & whack something.
My biggest complaint with AB is when you pay for the custom drag curve it eliminates your ability to tweak anything other than the MV. That doesn't work for me at a mile. Just like Shooter, etc I find that I need 2-3 profiles to cover all ranges & they don't overlap well when I do.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

You turned off Spin Drift and Coriolis in the app? These are things you cannot turn off in the Kilo 2400. That would certainly cause a difference in firing solutions. You would need to update the Latitude (which you do through the app for the 2400) to make sure the latitude is the same on both. Also the K2400 measures station pressure so you need to make sure you set the same preferences in the app (which by default uses Barometric Pressure and Altitude to correct to SP since the majority of users are using local weather stations which do not report in SP but rather in BP).

I agree. I've never really been an AB fan. Been using FFSIII for years but I decided to try the app & it was Ok. Then decided to try the Kilo2400 & it's ok for what it is. But I was expecting to have the same program as AB mobile in it. I'm probably going to keep it just for hunting since it's accurate enough out to 1000 and small enough with the solution & lrf in 1. But I still use FFS & now 4DOF for when I need to reach out & whack something.
My biggest complaint with AB is when you pay for the custom drag curve it eliminates your ability to tweak anything other than the MV. That doesn't work for me at a mile. Just like Shooter, etc I find that I need 2-3 profiles to cover all ranges & they don't overlap well when I do.

They do have the same engine in them. Also the CDM is capable of both a MV Correction, and a DSF. This can be done in any of the devices (most of which allow up to 6 points of adjustment) or the app (which allows up to 2 points of adjustment of a CDM).

 

[sobrbiker883]

Of the ones you mentioned, which are true in the field with known conditions?
ANY shooter that doesn’t true their guesstimator to match the reality at multiple distances of their rifle/load’s performance on paper at at least three different distances is running a fool’s errand at best.

 

[Dthomas3523]

You turned off Spin Drift and Coriolis in the app? These are things you cannot turn off in the Kilo 2400. That would certainly cause a difference in firing solutions. You would need to update the Latitude (which you do through the app for the 2400) to make sure the latitude is the same on both. Also the K2400 measures station pressure so you need to make sure you set the same preferences in the app (which by default uses Barometric Pressure and Altitude to correct to SP since the majority of users are using local weather stations which do not report in SP but rather in BP).




They do have the same engine in them. Also the CDM is capable of both a MV Correction, and a DSF. This can be done in any of the devices (most of which allow up to 6 points of adjustment) or the app (which allows up to 2 points of adjustment of a CDM).

See......this is part of the issue.

None of the platforms allow for the same settings. So you have to know 18 different tricks.

701 can turn off everything

Kestrel you have to use tricks to turn off aerodynamic jump and coriolos

Can’t turn off anything on the 2400

2400 measures different shit than the app’s main preference.



How can you guys see that it’s not a problem to need to be a wiz bang trickmaster at each individual device, just to make the SAME software spit out the same solution??

You can use the same base engine, but if you limit the user preferences on one device and not another......it ain’t the same anymore.


I like AB a lot, but what kind of confidence do you think a lot of new shooters are going to have when someone tells them they have to do a ton of different shit or different tricks for different devices? And in the same breath, you tell them “bro, it’s the same.”

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

All of them are designed to be done in the field with known conditions. Every little environmental factor makes a difference.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Of the ones you mentioned, which are true in the field with known conditions?
ANY shooter that doesn’t true their guesstimator to match the reality at multiple distances of their rifle/load’s performance on paper at at least three different distances is running a fool’s errand at best.

I’d assume with proper truing, they will all work fine.

Totally agree that you need to verify at several distances out to the furthest you plan to shoot (if possible).

The issue I have is needing to know the intricacies of say 3 different devices when they are all running AB.

I own a kestrel, a 701, and have the app. I had to learn them all from scratch even though they are all AB. That’s a problem.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

See......this is part of the issue.

None of the platforms allow for the same settings. So you have to know 18 different tricks.

701 can turn off everything

Kestrel you have to use tricks to turn off aerodynamic jump and coriolos

Can’t turn off anything on the 2400

2400 measures different shit than the app’s main preference.



How can you guys see that it’s not a problem to need to be a wiz bang trickmaster at each individual device, just to make the SAME software spit out the same solution??

You can use the same base engine, but if you limit the user preferences on one device and not another......it ain’t the same anymore.


I like AB a lot, but what kind of confidence do you think a lot of new shooters are going to have when someone tells them they have to do a ton of different shit or different tricks for different devices? And in the same breath, you tell them “bro, it’s the same.”

The settings and features found in a product are the development of the owner of that product. The engine functions the same across all platforms, but each developer has chosen the way they want that product to function. For example. The AB Elite engine support sight scale factor. Garmin has chosen to enable SSF while NK has chosen not to. You can upload a profile into both devices with SSF, and the engine is capable of using it. Another example is that both Garmin and NK can turn of Spin Drift. A feature that was enabled by both companies which is supported by the Engine.

If you would like to see a particular feature, or modification of a product then the best suggestion I have is to contact the company whos product you would like to see modified and send the recommendation through their support chain.

 

[_Windrider_]

The settings and features found in a product are the development of the owner of that product. The engine functions the same across all platforms, but each developer has chosen the way they want that product to function. For example. The AB Elite engine support sight scale factor. Garmin has chosen to enable SSF while NK has chosen not to. You can upload a profile into both devices with SSF, and the engine is capable of using it. Another example is that both Garmin and NK can turn of Spin Drift. A feature that was enabled by both companies which is supported by the Engine.

If you would like to see a particular feature, or modification of a product then the best suggestion I have is to contact the company whos product you would like to see modified and send the recommendation through their support chain.

That was kind of my point. You tell them what to include. If they are buying into your ecosystem then they run the whole product as designed. This ensures quality of your product and it’s results. If they don’t want to run a feature then they can find something else to integrate with.

 

[Dthomas3523]

The settings and features found in a product are the development of the owner of that product. The engine functions the same across all platforms, but each developer has chosen the way they want that product to function. For example. The AB Elite engine support sight scale factor. Garmin has chosen to enable SSF while NK has chosen not to. You can upload a profile into both devices with SSF, and the engine is capable of using it. Another example is that both Garmin and NK can turn of Spin Drift. A feature that was enabled by both companies which is supported by the Engine.

If you would like to see a particular feature, or modification of a product then the best suggestion I have is to contact the company whos product you would like to see modified and send the recommendation through their support chain.

See......problem.

Garmin will tell me to talk to you and you will tell me to talk to Garmin.

This is not hit job on you guys. Just some constructive criticism. I agree with @TacticalDillhole, need to be a little more strict with what you let those companies dictate in your software.

Again, I like AB a lot. But it’s not the “same” as the user experience and interface with each platform is completely different.

This has literally happened when I’m helping someone:

Me: “so, I do this with my kestrel running AB”

Them: “so I can do that with XXX device”

Me: “no, you need to do this”

Them: “but it has AB”

Me: “long story, but you need to do it differently”


So, yes, the devices have the same engine under the hood. But you don’t get there the same way.

 

[Bigwheels]

I transferred all the data from the Kilo to the other apps line by line so they were the same. AJ, SD, & CO don't add up to .5 mil @ 675-800yds.

 

[seansmd]

I believe all of these apps and calculators should have a settings export and highlight data used in the solution.

I have to imagine the customer support asks these questions constantly. Export the data and send it when comparing.

The kestrel 5700 had the ballistic information where you can see the contributions.