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Kinetic Research Group SOTIC?
- Thread starter kRcu
- Start date
You are killing me KRG.
I've already bought about everything to build my Origin and you drope the price of the SOTIC to $3k.. What am I going to do?
Are there any reviews out yet? Not much on YouTube other than SHOT show stuff.
I've already bought about everything to build my Origin and you drope the price of the SOTIC to $3k.. What am I going to do?
Are there any reviews out yet? Not much on YouTube other than SHOT show stuff.
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We're not blowing them out. We were put in a tight spot because of the new Guns and Ammo article on the SOTIC that listed the intro pricing some of you in this thread got as being still active. We've been getting a barrage of guys asking about the intro pricing.
Since we had just barely gotten through the pre-order list we just extended the intro pricing. That pricing is going to stop no later than 31Dec18 and possibly earlier.
The retail price is $4250 fixed and $4650 folding and will be that going forward. It's a premium rifle, basically made to beat out an AI or TRG even at equal pricing. We don't have AI's import and distribution cost challenges nor do we sell it to dealers (currently) in the US so we can offer it at a lower retail price to you guys than an AI rifle while being made in the USA.
The regular TRG is more equivalent to a SOTIC with our entry level Bravo stock on it so it's not apples to apples since the TRG lacks the features of the SOTIC and AI. There is a new TRG-22 out with updated back end from the TRG-M10 but it is high $ and pretty heavy if I remember right from SHOT.
Thanks guys,
Justin
Since we had just barely gotten through the pre-order list we just extended the intro pricing. That pricing is going to stop no later than 31Dec18 and possibly earlier.
The retail price is $4250 fixed and $4650 folding and will be that going forward. It's a premium rifle, basically made to beat out an AI or TRG even at equal pricing. We don't have AI's import and distribution cost challenges nor do we sell it to dealers (currently) in the US so we can offer it at a lower retail price to you guys than an AI rifle while being made in the USA.
The regular TRG is more equivalent to a SOTIC with our entry level Bravo stock on it so it's not apples to apples since the TRG lacks the features of the SOTIC and AI. There is a new TRG-22 out with updated back end from the TRG-M10 but it is high $ and pretty heavy if I remember right from SHOT.
Thanks guys,
Justin
Are there plans for long action calibers like the 300 WM and 338 Lapua?
Any plans for a quick change barrel system that doesn't require headspace gauges?
Any plans for a quick change barrel system that doesn't require headspace gauges?
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We don't have anything definite on long action calibers though that is something that's on the table.
There is no plan for a different barrel change system, the action is threaded. You can set it up certain ways to know if a barrel is at the proper headspace. You can pre-headspace a barrel and mark it at a certain position, you can set up the barrel band (sleeve with caliber info) to a certain orientation, there's also another way with putting a stop pin through a hole in the top of the action, then setting headspace off of that barrel position.
Thank you,
Justin
There is no plan for a different barrel change system, the action is threaded. You can set it up certain ways to know if a barrel is at the proper headspace. You can pre-headspace a barrel and mark it at a certain position, you can set up the barrel band (sleeve with caliber info) to a certain orientation, there's also another way with putting a stop pin through a hole in the top of the action, then setting headspace off of that barrel position.
Thank you,
Justin
I’ve had a few inquiries into thoughts on my SOTIC rifle so here’s my $.02. First off I’d consider myself a novice long range shooter although I have attended one class with Frank. I shoot, prior to the SOTIC, a custom R700 in .260 built by Mark at SAC. I received one of the first 50 SOTIC rifles via a pre-order deal.
I choose 308 thinking I’d re-barrel with a PROOF blank that I already have. That didn’t work as the SOTIC “quick change barrel uses a 27mm shank, similar or the same as a Savage small shank barrel if I’m not mistaken. Being that the carbon runs the full diameter of the barrel where it meets the shank that’s a no-go on my barrel with a 1.20” shank. See my notes on this later.
I fitted it with a SPUHR direct to receiver mount and S&B PM II 5-25x56.
Pros;
Accuracy – I can shoot a great group with factory 175gr Sig or Fiocchi ammo. Frankly much better than I expected. I have not had a chance to take it past the 100 yards at the indoor range. I have no doubt I can get to 1000+ yards with ease.
Quality – Every component of the rifle is precise and well thought out. You’ll see my only complaints below. I did make a slight adjustment to the corner of the grip where my thumb rubs n it.
Customer Service – The communication and service from KRG has been fantastic. Specifically, with Justin when asking odd questions and clarifying the barrel compatibility.
Cost of additional barrels – for $750 if any of the other caliber barrels shoot as well as the Brux 308 barrel that came with the gun I think that’s a good deal considering most smiths charge $350-$500 to chamber and thread a barrel plus the cost of the blank.
The trigger – I don’t have much experience here but the trigger (Timney 510 om my 260), is very adjustable and smooth. I shoot it at whatever weight it was set at from the factory.
The chassis – I’m a huge fan of the chassis. I purchased a second for my 223 trainer. It’s light adjustable and there’s a ton of accessories for it. I like the W3 better than my AI AX chassis.
The extras – I was not expecting the nice bag / mat and the extras that shipped with the gun. A very pleasant surprise.
Mags - It uses AI pattern mags vs. TRG mags. But, see below.
Cons;
The “quick change” barrel - is not as quick change as some of the other high end rifles on the market. I haven’t swapped the barrel yet but I did buy the action wrench. I assume I will need to install the action wrench, or a barrel wrench, to hold the rifle while I remove the barrel from the action. A headspace gauge is required to re-install the barrel. I’m confident that I can handle this task but it will take a few minutes and patience. I don’t own an AI AT or AXMC but from what I understand the barrel is changes with an Allen key and no vice, action wrench or headspace gauge is needed. I may have my local gunsmith just spin up a barrel and get rid of the barrel nut system if that’s possible. I don’t know how often I will swap them anyway. This is my only real disappointment and really shouldn’t have been a surprise if I’d thought about it more.
Justin, or someone correct me if I’m wrong regarding anything in the above paragraph.
Some minor annoyances, but not deal breakers for me;
No Magpul mags - I have plenty of AI, Accurate and the mag that came with the gun. I’m not sure this is really a KRG issue. The polymer AI mags don’t work with my Tikka T3X 223 trainer either. The feedlips are too thick.
The heavy bolt lift – OK, I know this has been a complaint and this is where my lack of experience may show. The bolt lift is relatively heavy compared to some other actions on the market. I don’t find it much worse than my TRG-22 or Tikka T3X. It may be indicative of cock on open actions, I don’t know. I really don’t notice it when behind the rifle. I don’t shoot matches so it doesn’t inhibit reload speed for me. I have noticed it’s lightened up slightly even after a box or so of ammo through the gun. This may be a deal breaker for some of you.
Cost, maybe at the retail price – I think at the introductory $3400 price for the rifle is a great deal. Consider, for high end components a comparison:
Action $1000 - $1600 (assuming you didn’t get a pre-order Origin or Nucleus)
Chassis $950 – $1300 (AICS AT, Magpul PRO or W3)
Barrel and install labor - $750 - $1000
Trigger - $200 - $300 (Timney or Jewel)
Extras – scope rail, case/mat etc. est. $250+
You’d spend $2900 - $4000+ for a comparable rifle. I don’t know if I’d be a buyer at the higher pricing, I really don’t know. I have at least $3000, or more, in my SAC R700. Sure you can build a cheaper rifle but not with all of the features or adjustability.
Anyway, I’m a huge fan of the KRG SOTIC and if you can live the bolt lift and don’t need a barrel that changes as quickly as an AT or similar then I’d recommend buying one before the sale is over! If there’s anything I forgot I’ll add it.
The pic is 5 rounds of SIG 175gr OTM at 100 yards.
I choose 308 thinking I’d re-barrel with a PROOF blank that I already have. That didn’t work as the SOTIC “quick change barrel uses a 27mm shank, similar or the same as a Savage small shank barrel if I’m not mistaken. Being that the carbon runs the full diameter of the barrel where it meets the shank that’s a no-go on my barrel with a 1.20” shank. See my notes on this later.
I fitted it with a SPUHR direct to receiver mount and S&B PM II 5-25x56.
Pros;
Accuracy – I can shoot a great group with factory 175gr Sig or Fiocchi ammo. Frankly much better than I expected. I have not had a chance to take it past the 100 yards at the indoor range. I have no doubt I can get to 1000+ yards with ease.
Quality – Every component of the rifle is precise and well thought out. You’ll see my only complaints below. I did make a slight adjustment to the corner of the grip where my thumb rubs n it.
Customer Service – The communication and service from KRG has been fantastic. Specifically, with Justin when asking odd questions and clarifying the barrel compatibility.
Cost of additional barrels – for $750 if any of the other caliber barrels shoot as well as the Brux 308 barrel that came with the gun I think that’s a good deal considering most smiths charge $350-$500 to chamber and thread a barrel plus the cost of the blank.
The trigger – I don’t have much experience here but the trigger (Timney 510 om my 260), is very adjustable and smooth. I shoot it at whatever weight it was set at from the factory.
The chassis – I’m a huge fan of the chassis. I purchased a second for my 223 trainer. It’s light adjustable and there’s a ton of accessories for it. I like the W3 better than my AI AX chassis.
The extras – I was not expecting the nice bag / mat and the extras that shipped with the gun. A very pleasant surprise.
Mags - It uses AI pattern mags vs. TRG mags. But, see below.
Cons;
The “quick change” barrel - is not as quick change as some of the other high end rifles on the market. I haven’t swapped the barrel yet but I did buy the action wrench. I assume I will need to install the action wrench, or a barrel wrench, to hold the rifle while I remove the barrel from the action. A headspace gauge is required to re-install the barrel. I’m confident that I can handle this task but it will take a few minutes and patience. I don’t own an AI AT or AXMC but from what I understand the barrel is changes with an Allen key and no vice, action wrench or headspace gauge is needed. I may have my local gunsmith just spin up a barrel and get rid of the barrel nut system if that’s possible. I don’t know how often I will swap them anyway. This is my only real disappointment and really shouldn’t have been a surprise if I’d thought about it more.
Justin, or someone correct me if I’m wrong regarding anything in the above paragraph.
Some minor annoyances, but not deal breakers for me;
No Magpul mags - I have plenty of AI, Accurate and the mag that came with the gun. I’m not sure this is really a KRG issue. The polymer AI mags don’t work with my Tikka T3X 223 trainer either. The feedlips are too thick.
The heavy bolt lift – OK, I know this has been a complaint and this is where my lack of experience may show. The bolt lift is relatively heavy compared to some other actions on the market. I don’t find it much worse than my TRG-22 or Tikka T3X. It may be indicative of cock on open actions, I don’t know. I really don’t notice it when behind the rifle. I don’t shoot matches so it doesn’t inhibit reload speed for me. I have noticed it’s lightened up slightly even after a box or so of ammo through the gun. This may be a deal breaker for some of you.
Cost, maybe at the retail price – I think at the introductory $3400 price for the rifle is a great deal. Consider, for high end components a comparison:
Action $1000 - $1600 (assuming you didn’t get a pre-order Origin or Nucleus)
Chassis $950 – $1300 (AICS AT, Magpul PRO or W3)
Barrel and install labor - $750 - $1000
Trigger - $200 - $300 (Timney or Jewel)
Extras – scope rail, case/mat etc. est. $250+
You’d spend $2900 - $4000+ for a comparable rifle. I don’t know if I’d be a buyer at the higher pricing, I really don’t know. I have at least $3000, or more, in my SAC R700. Sure you can build a cheaper rifle but not with all of the features or adjustability.
Anyway, I’m a huge fan of the KRG SOTIC and if you can live the bolt lift and don’t need a barrel that changes as quickly as an AT or similar then I’d recommend buying one before the sale is over! If there’s anything I forgot I’ll add it.
The pic is 5 rounds of SIG 175gr OTM at 100 yards.
Attachments
While this applies to anyone with a W3 chassis, I figured I'd ask here because it's on my mind: How does the folding mechanism work/feel for you when shooting weak hand? Does it get in the way at all? Specifically the bottom hinge, as I'd ride my thumb high on the thumb shelf. I'm seriously considering selling a bunch of stuff to pick one of these up before the sale's over (please hold out for a few more weeks or so on it, Justin! 
), as it looks like a great system and I'd be very interested in checking one out to compare to my AIAT. I'm just trying to decide if the folder is worth the additional $400. It may just come down to my ability to get that extra $400 on hand before the sale ends, as I certainly wouldn't let that stop me from getting a fixed option if that's all I can swing. I'm not even sure I can make it at all, but I'm certainly going to try!
), as it looks like a great system and I'd be very interested in checking one out to compare to my AIAT. I'm just trying to decide if the folder is worth the additional $400. It may just come down to my ability to get that extra $400 on hand before the sale ends, as I certainly wouldn't let that stop me from getting a fixed option if that's all I can swing. I'm not even sure I can make it at all, but I'm certainly going to try!I have somewhat a weird feedback, not on the rifle, but on the bag/shooting mat that came with it: I hope the pocket muzzle goes into is oriented the other way, this way you put down the bag, and will be ready to shoot. Now I have to put the bag with muzzle pointing down range, open bag, rotate bag 180 degrees while lifting the rifle so that the small flap goes to the front, and large flap in the back (I just assumed the small flap is for tripod and large flap is for my feet, please correct me if I'm mistaken).
Possible to order the SOTIC with the Bravo rear and save a few bucks? I live in a van down by the river..
I'm running a Badger M2013 in a Whiskey 3 Gen 5 folder. The hinge and lockup (both extended and folded) is rock solid. To your question, I don't practice a lot of weak side shooting, but the hinge can make contact with your left hand. Shooting weak side feels odd anyway, so making some contact with the hinge getting into position doesn't really enter into the equation for me. There is plenty of room on the left side thumb shelf, it's just that the upper hinge is right behind your thumb.While this applies to anyone with a W3 chassis, I figured I'd ask here because it's on my mind: How does the folding mechanism work/feel for you when shooting weak hand? Does it get in the way at all? Specifically the bottom hinge, as I'd ride my thumb high on the thumb shelf. I'm seriously considering selling a bunch of stuff to pick one of these up before the sale's over (please hold out for a few more weeks or so on it, Justin!
Stock photo - not my rifle.
It does use the same mount although we're not sure if the factory Sako mounts fit. The Spuhr mounts fit well.
Just a quick note regarding the barrel change. That was a good write-up from bmmc but I do want to make sure it's known that the barrel change is not "quick change" it is "user changeable". It's a Savage barrel nut system. You can get a barrel cut anywhere and mount it up. There are two ways to make it more "quick change" though we don't think that applies to precision bolt guns so much. First you can insert a pin into the top of the action which will act as a stop for the barrel, the barrel would need to be headspaced in that position, then after that anytime you pull the barrel you just screw it back in until it hits the stop and tighten the nut. Second, we have our tool-less barrel nut system coming for the Habu/Dakkar rifle and you can use that on the SOTIC, that will be 6+ months probably but it's coming.
Sorry the SOTIC only comes in a Whiskey-3 chassis for now, no Bravo rears. If you're short on cash, a T3 with our trigger in a Bravo would do a lot of what you're looking for.
Derek-we looked into that shooting mat oddity and it's just a byproduct of how the rifle is held in there and the case is made so we're stuck with that for now.
Thanks guys,
Justin
Just a quick note regarding the barrel change. That was a good write-up from bmmc but I do want to make sure it's known that the barrel change is not "quick change" it is "user changeable". It's a Savage barrel nut system. You can get a barrel cut anywhere and mount it up. There are two ways to make it more "quick change" though we don't think that applies to precision bolt guns so much. First you can insert a pin into the top of the action which will act as a stop for the barrel, the barrel would need to be headspaced in that position, then after that anytime you pull the barrel you just screw it back in until it hits the stop and tighten the nut. Second, we have our tool-less barrel nut system coming for the Habu/Dakkar rifle and you can use that on the SOTIC, that will be 6+ months probably but it's coming.
Sorry the SOTIC only comes in a Whiskey-3 chassis for now, no Bravo rears. If you're short on cash, a T3 with our trigger in a Bravo would do a lot of what you're looking for.
Derek-we looked into that shooting mat oddity and it's just a byproduct of how the rifle is held in there and the case is made so we're stuck with that for now.
Thanks guys,
Justin
What’s timing like for that trigger? I’ve been keeping my eye on the website for awhile now.
Is the SOTIC action unique...or is it a footprint (Tikka? Sako?) that we might be able to use/see in other stock/chassis?
Just curious for someone like myself who really likes the looks of this action but may not be all-in for the system.
Regardless, it looks like a winner guys. It's great to see how far you guys have come!
Just curious for someone like myself who really likes the looks of this action but may not be all-in for the system.
Regardless, it looks like a winner guys. It's great to see how far you guys have come!
Thanks for the kind words. The SOTIC action is a TRG footprint. We don't sell just the action though. It would be astronomically priced anyway, it's terribly expensive to make, haha.
Justin
There will be a TRG style safety with two caveats: It will come a bit later and you need our newest T3 trigger guard to fit it. The bottom type safety requires a lot more room in the trigger guard for the lever to move. Thank you,
Justin
That's great. I was quoted 2 to 4 weeks on a 6.5 Creedmoor. I ordered it on 11/14, so shouldn't be too much longer.
Please post your impressions after your break-in session.
These are beautiful looking actions, i've been 'stalking' the product page on KRG for ages, but would love to know if there is any option to get a second bolt in a wider/magnum bolt face? I see it's available in SA only but it would be fantastic to be able to run a 6.5CM with the ability to pop in a second barrel/bolt chambered in 300WSM for hunting the tops on occasion.
I haven't seen this asked /answered anywhere so maybe it's a quick question for you Justin, @Massoud ; Is something like that likely to be available?
Either way, it seems like an excellent product, looks like you guys who own one certainly rate them highly!
I haven't seen this asked /answered anywhere so maybe it's a quick question for you Justin, @Massoud ; Is something like that likely to be available?
Either way, it seems like an excellent product, looks like you guys who own one certainly rate them highly!
Trigger pull on the SOTIC is 2.5lb to 5lb. It's technically possible to go lower but it's not SAAMI drop spec compliant at lower weights.
We are considering a magnum face bolt for the current short action. We'll have to get the .223 bolt going first though.
Thanks guys,
Justin
We are considering a magnum face bolt for the current short action. We'll have to get the .223 bolt going first though.
Thanks guys,
Justin
So, I was able to get to the range Saturday to go through the break in. Whew, is that time consuming but totally worth it. I ran Federal Premium 175 gr. Gold Medal Match BTHP through it.
This rifle is nothing short of a work of art. Fit and finish is perfect, action is smooth, even as new, trigger I left at 2#-11 Ozs. Very nice, breaks well and is very predictable. I'm not that terrific of shot but this gun makes me shoot better! I really like it a lot! Conditions we a little tough, the temps started at 24 and came up to 30 degrees. Fingers were getting pretty cold by the afternoon. I am attaching pictures as well. Anybody on the fence about getting one of these fine pieces should step up. You won't be disappointed!! Nice work @Massoud !
This rifle is nothing short of a work of art. Fit and finish is perfect, action is smooth, even as new, trigger I left at 2#-11 Ozs. Very nice, breaks well and is very predictable. I'm not that terrific of shot but this gun makes me shoot better! I really like it a lot! Conditions we a little tough, the temps started at 24 and came up to 30 degrees. Fingers were getting pretty cold by the afternoon. I am attaching pictures as well. Anybody on the fence about getting one of these fine pieces should step up. You won't be disappointed!! Nice work @Massoud !
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I have no business whatever buying a rifle with this much capability...but boy do I want one of these...and the intro pricing is much more palatable than I'm used to. Pretty amazing, really.
He’s right... I felt like I had no business buying a TRG a few years ago but it’s still my favorite rifle. I’ve learned a lot over the years and still refining my techniques. One thing I’ve never questioned is my equipment. It takes a big variable out of the equation and let’s you focus executing good fundamentals of shooting.
I'm actively thinking of reasons not to buy it..suspecting I might lose. As a value proposition, it's at or below my cost for parts...and beats it handily when you throw in the gun smithing. I could do a factory precision rifle or a factory barreled action and a chassis for less...but, that's not the same thing...obviously. I stumbled across it chasing down information about rifle stocks from the "what the pros use" entry on the Precision Rifle Blog. I like traditional stocks, but struggle to get non-AR platforms dialed in for cheek weld and sight picture.
Of course, if I buy it I've got to go shoot it.
ETA: as of about 2 mins ago, I lost that fight. I've been scraping cash together in my "slush fund" a few bucks at a time...no good having it if I don't spend it occasionally...on something other than Jeep parts. This is a pretty big deal for a dude that just used an MRE spoon to eat his lunch.
Of course, if I buy it I've got to go shoot it.
ETA: as of about 2 mins ago, I lost that fight. I've been scraping cash together in my "slush fund" a few bucks at a time...no good having it if I don't spend it occasionally...on something other than Jeep parts. This is a pretty big deal for a dude that just used an MRE spoon to eat his lunch.
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Does anyone have any idea of what these actions are like when running in dirty conditions (not talking about submersed in mud or anything ridiculous, but in 'poor' field conditions like blowing dust, sand, ice or snow etc..), do they still function well enough or is this something that would jam up a 'precision' type action more than an average 'good' hunting rifle action like a Sako 85 or something similar? I've never had any experience with a TRG type action, i assume they would run in any conditions...?
also congrats DJL2, sounds like a good decision!
also congrats DJL2, sounds like a good decision!
Not sure about SOTIC, but probably very close to TRG. See this http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...-sako-trg-22-and-observations-on-gear.167144/.
Wow, thanks! I can certainly see a lot of similarities (and a fair few things i hadn't considered the 'why' of) on the SOTIC.
That was a really interesting read, thanks for the link!
Any new range reports?
I should be getting mine in a week or so and need to live vicariously till then, lol.
I should be getting mine in a week or so and need to live vicariously till then, lol.
@Massoud was kind enough to respond when I queried - I'm right there with you...probably another week or so, if things go well. It's my first 6.5 CM, so no real ammo stash to draw from. I grabbed up some Hornady and SIG 140 grain OTM, as well as Hornady 147 grain ELD-M. I'm hoping that, short term, at least one of these suits the rifle.
I'll likely repurpose an optic, short term. I'll hem and haw between getting new intermediate glass (i.e. Trijicon Accupoint or Burris XTR3) or used "good" glass (e.g. the Gen 2 Razor HDs in the sale section right now) for a while longer.
I'll likely repurpose an optic, short term. I'll hem and haw between getting new intermediate glass (i.e. Trijicon Accupoint or Burris XTR3) or used "good" glass (e.g. the Gen 2 Razor HDs in the sale section right now) for a while longer.
This will be my second 6.5 Creedmoor. My other one is a JP LRP07. I'm hoping the hand loads I use for my JP will also work well in the SOTIC. That would definitely simplify things.
I'm in the same boat as you for optics. I have a Steiner 5x25 on another rifle that needs some barrel work, so I'll probably use that till I rebuild my shooting funds. Thinking of picking up another Athlon Cronus. That's what I have on my JP and I've been really happy with it. I like it better than the Steiner which cost almost twice as much.
Anybody have any video of the rifle being run? Or a review NOT in a paid-for mag like G&A? I'm teetering on the fence, and would really like to see an end-user review, as well as some video of the rifle. For this being such a high-end rifle, there's surprisingly little out there in the way of details or information, reviews, etc.
I'd have to sell a few stocks/chassis and some other items to swing the SOTIC. In large part, I want to keep them as they allow me to use my TL2 in a wide variety of situations. But those could be replaced with time, whereas the price of the SOTIC will go up a significant amount soon. I'm trying to convince myself to "pull the trigger," but without some video, end user input, etc. on top of the very short posts we've seen here, I'm having a hard time making that jump. If you have a SOTIC in hand, post up photos, videos, your thoughts and impressions. Sell me on this thing, my AI could use a US-made brother!
I'd have to sell a few stocks/chassis and some other items to swing the SOTIC. In large part, I want to keep them as they allow me to use my TL2 in a wide variety of situations. But those could be replaced with time, whereas the price of the SOTIC will go up a significant amount soon. I'm trying to convince myself to "pull the trigger," but without some video, end user input, etc. on top of the very short posts we've seen here, I'm having a hard time making that jump. If you have a SOTIC in hand, post up photos, videos, your thoughts and impressions. Sell me on this thing, my AI could use a US-made brother!
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