King of 2 Miles 2019

[Lynn Jr]

Hey Mr Tim
Yeah we got lots of responses back then most of which we can't mention.
I was running monthly URSA 2000+ yard matches until northern California had two bad fire seasons wiping out 600,000 acres and our range.
We are holding a 3000 yard event in April or May of this year in SoCal and it would be a great warmup match for those attending KO2M.
Bill and Kurt mark your calendars!!!
When our NorCal range opens up again this year I will try and hold a match during Deer season so shooters from out of state can hunt as well.

 

[RobertB]

We're signed up and looking forward to another K02M match! This one will be my 3rd event and my companies 4th or 5th!. The 1st one I attended worked well and the 2nd one they had a very impressive camera system that really helped out and made the match flow nice. I think it is very hard to put on one of these matches in the location they do much better than how it ran. I shoot a lot of PRS matches and the layout and flow that makes that work with 200 people won't work with this type.

I admit, when I 1st read about how the match was ran I didn't think it would be a good format. After attending it and watching all the work and preparation I'd say they do a pretty good job. It is different and I think that makes it hard for some people to understand. I've not heard of any one griping about not getting in if they are out there proving what they can do in competition. With way more people wanting to shoot it they can handle they can do 1 or 2 things. Cap it at X amount of shooters and it's 1st come 1st serve or make it performance/history based. While both have their pros/cons it is what it is. After seeing a few of them and what they have to work with I think they are doing a great job and I want to attend it as I want to attend others as well that might not limit who shows up.

Just my .02, not trying to stir the pot or bash/praise. Just typing what I thought and then came to learn.

 

[PAYDIRT]

First day should be shoot one cold bore at to qualify. You could roll through a ton of shooters in 4-5 hours. It gives everyone a chance and from what I saw a couple years ago a 1500 yard cold bore shot would weed a BUNCH out.

 

[Sandow the Heretic]

First day should be shoot one cold bore at to qualify. You could roll through a ton of shooters in 4-5 hours. It gives everyone a chance and from what I saw a couple years ago a 1500 yard cold bore shot would weed a BUNCH out.

Thats a fantastic idea! Why did we never think of bringing 300 people out to BFE to shoot one round and have a 75% chance of getting sent home...

-Alex

 

[PAYDIRT]

Thats a fantastic idea! Why did we never think of bringing 300 people out to BFE to shoot one round and have a 75% chance of getting sent home...

-Alex

Well it is a shooting match isn't it? It's on them if they miss, would be better than getting cut because you didn't rub elbows with the right people. Your sarcasm says enough for most to know they would be better off shooting with friends.

 

[Sandow the Heretic]

Well it is a shooting match isn't it? It's on them if they miss, would be better than getting cut because you didn't rub elbows with the right people. Your sarcasm says enough for most to know they would be better off shooting with friends.

It is a challenging enough situation with 6 shots potentially being the end of it. Only 4 people hit the 1 MOA cold bore gong last year and only 2 of them made the finals. Whatever you saw years ago doesn't have much bearing on even last year where the people that missed target 1 all had some kind of mechanical failure.

We restrict entry to proven shooters in part so people don't take 4 days off and travel thousands of miles to never hit a target. It sucks for them and it is a boring competition to watch people miss. In the end Ko2M should simply not be someones first ELR match. It is too unforgiving and what you describe would instantly kill a match. Even one that is reasonably well established like ours.

For what its worth, nobody gets in based on just being our friend. We even have FCSA BOD members that we cut based upon lack of standing.

-Alex

 

[Bradu]

Lol I don't see too many people lining up for a chance to turn around and go home if you miss 1 target.

 

[PAYDIRT]

Lol I don't see too many people lining up for a chance to turn around and go home if you miss 1 target.

I saw plenty miss a 2'x3' plate 5 times. "Lol" but that was on tv. Not saying I could do better but if it's a shooting contest I guess you would need to take the possibility of not hitting the target into account before you drove "thousands of miles, and took 4 days off work"

 

[towerofpower93]

I find myself wanting to fall into the 'let all show up and those who fail fail camp' with a one and done cold bore qualifier, but having RO'd matches before this is a recipe for disaster.

How is the shooting order drawn? Sucks to be number one shooter in the one round qualifier stage playing wind bitch for the 299 people behind you.

What happens if the wind gods take a break and 250/300 make the first round hit? There's now X times the number of teams/shooters who get to compete in the dance?

What happens if the wind gods get really angsty during the one round qualifier and nobody connects? KO2M 2019 never happens because not a single shooter makes the one round qualifier?

Sucks to say it, but there are all sorts of shooting competitions built around the series style with cumulative points leading to the top 10-20% being given first chance at a finale/championship round with others being allowed to join after a day or two grace period for the point leaders.

As there isn't a single range or organization running ELR matches around the country, a la PRS, seeing who does well at other/shorter events leading up to KO2M, the selection process seems to be, akin to a democratic republic, the least bad way of sorting things out.

This is all coming from a guy who has less than 100rds under his belt on a 338LM and is looking to do not terribly in a local one mile shoot this year, but I've RO'd a number of different shooting competitions I've also participated in and after dealing with MDs and range owners there is ultimately a balance which must be struck between 'let everyone do what they want to do' and 'here are the fiscal and temporal limitations we find ourselves in'.

 

[Bradu]

5 shots is a hell of a better odds than 1 shot. Be alright if you could cherry pick your conditions but possibly have shitty conditions with no chance to spot your shot and adjust...good luck drawing a crowd from around the country.

 

[Lynn Jr]

I should keep my mouth shut but what we see at our matches is shooters who come prepared and shooters who don't
We try and get everyone a hit at our starting distance of 2054 yards. Alot if shooters don't have enough scope cant so they are holding at a bush or rock 40 minutes up the hill and adjusting for each call trying to get a hit.
We use lights and I am surprised none have been hit yet.
The regulars walk around trying to help but they get impatient when it looks like the wind will kick in before we start the official match.
What we have done to try and be as fair as possible is we now set a start time for the matches at 8 AM.
I try and setup the gongs and lights in the dark so we can get some practice in then qualify and go hot as soon as possible.
After the official match or matches is over I let everyone shoot until they run out of ammo.
Running an event with 300 brand new shooters could make one go Postal.
I usually grab Hoffer WhiteMamba and another hide member and pair them up with a new shooter as a coach.
We draw Sharpie marked quarters from a baseball cap to get our shooting order and anyone drawing two quarters shoots dead last in the most wind.
Since implementing that we haven't had anyone draw multiple quarters anymore.
I run our matches solo and 10-15 shooters will try ones patience.

 

[TripleBull]

That is an admirable commitment to your participants, Lynn. I hope they know how lucky they are for your efforts.

I'm enough of an ELR newbie, I wouldn't dare to criticize the format or any other aspect of Ko2M. We drove down to watch and photograph the finals last year and I found it to be entertaining. The organizers had to spend a bit of time to get everything ready, but once they went hot, the finals went very smoothly and seemed to go pretty quickly. I had a blast watching.

 

[oneshot.onehit]

I give Alex a lot of credit for his professional and well thought out responses here and in a few other threads. It doesn’t matter what event or where it’s held you will never satisfy everyone, multiple classes only promote more winners and at times will spin off from the real reason the event was established from day one. In todays times there are multiple events that allow for about any individual’s setup and abilities to participate, learn from and have fun while pulling the trigger.

Back 5 years ago there was not much mentioned as far as ELR events and after Eduardo, Alex and Walt started the KO2M it only drove the desire to shoot but also caused a spin off of many of the ELR events available in the States as well as other countries. It also pushed our industry hard in development as far as the equipment we have available today compared to just a few years back and this will only get better. I think its great that they focus on pushing the limits and showing folks that we can exceed what folks say can’t be done and with that said, it is the reasoning as to why it is so challenging to meet the requirements necessary to shoot such a event compared to others. Cool things happen when you take 60+ of the best possible shooters and force them to shoot under a time restraint when it’s their turn and they have to deal with the ever changing conditions with the winds and mountains at Raton, NM.

I have seen the wind do a complete 180 degree change while a shooter was on the line setting up, this requires the shooter and his spotter to be able to react quick and calm while the pressure is on because there’s no hope and poke in this event and at those distances.

Cheers
oneshot.onehit
JH

 

[Lynn Jr]

I got an email from Jim Borden saying he was going to make a CheyTac size action soon and has a Lapua size action being made now.
Once you start seeing manufacturers like Borden getting into the sport the quality seems to go up and the shooting seems to get better.
I forgot to ask him if he will be doing any big barrels.
He did a 1.450 straight cylinder for me about 32 inches long years ago.

 

[Sandow the Heretic]

I got an email from Jim Borden saying he was going to make a CheyTac size action soon and has a Lapua size action being made now.
Once you start seeing manufacturers like Borden getting into the sport the quality seems to go up and the shooting seems to get better.
I forgot to ask him if he will be doing any big barrels.
He did a 1.450 straight cylinder for me about 32 inches long years ago.

Cool to see cartridges at the edge move from the lunatic fringe towards main stream

-Alex

 

[Sandow the Heretic]

Registration is open until the end of the week. We reserve the right to ruthlessly make fun of anyone that doesn't send us an application and complains about not getting in.

-Alex

 

[Sandow the Heretic]

Acceptance and waitlist notifications are out. If you applied and haven't heard from us, email me. I try to check any undeliverable notifications but things do get lost in the ether.

-Alex

 

[madppcs]

Just out of curiosity, how are the 50BMGs doing? I have an M99 and have been looking for a reason to shoot the hornady 750's

 

[THEIS]

Just out of curiosity, how are the 50BMGs doing? I have an M99 and have been looking for a reason to shoot the hornady 750's

Hi,

In general...poorly.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Sandow the Heretic]

Hi,

In general...poorly.

Sincerely,
Theis

There is a 50 shooter in the top 10 of our current rankings but 50s have been less popular of a choice than expected. Looking back, the number of people that have tried 50s in our match is somewhat low. Things using 50 as a parent case like the 416 and 460 seem to be the trend. This has nothing to do with 50 calibers being a bad because in this game bigger is simply better. It has everything to do with the limited powder availability which makes 50 BMG harder to optimize for modern target bullets than slightly smaller bores.

To be clear, the Amax is a not modern design and there really are no non-solid bullets that are in larger bores. Amax has far too much bearing surface to be pushed at respectable velocities. As you go up in bore, the area of the bearing surface goes up massively in traditional bullets and I've never seen a drive band swaged into a jacketed lead bullet. That area translates to pressure which translates to low velocities. Amax is best around 2650 and I've never seen them pushed beyond 2800. There are some 800 grain solids that can be pushed at around 3000 though which would probably do well in ELR if given a fair shot.

Not many have gone down that path though and we have mostly seen follow the leader in terms of caliber preference. a 416 won last year and this year the number of people shooting 416s and 460s has more than tripled. If a 50 wins, you will probably see people shift up to them.

So shoot your 50 in ELR by all means. Just give Lehigh or Cutting Edge bullets a run and see what is really possible once you get away from a mass marked bullet. Come hit an FCSA match and get your feet wet. You will learn a ton and you will have fun. I promise

-Alex

 

[camotoe]

Maybe a 338 class would go over. Not many guys can afford the 375 and 40 caliber rigs that are supersonic to 3K+ yards.

Lots of guys got various 338 lapua based rigs laying around. ELR went from something like the early NASCAR days to Formula 1 in about 5 years. Lot's of potential competitors got priced out of the game before they had the chance to start.

Bingo......a small bore class would be (.)(.)

 

[Sandow the Heretic]

We had 150 or so applications for 70 slots and of those 2 were 338 shooters. We want to see what works at these ranges. The "best inadequate gun" trophy seem contrary to that goal. If smaller calibers have any business competing at these ranges then they can do so on a level playing field with everyone else.

-Alex

 

[6.5x61Super]

...

 

[Geno C.]

 

[DBP1968]

If you would like to start a match that focuses on light caliber ELR, we would be happy to support your efforts.

-Alex

Alex are you still setting the rules for Ko2M?

 

[LawnMM]

I've yet to really dive into ELR but do have a 338LM and plan to rebarrel to 37xc when it burns out. Having said that, I ain't spending ELR money to shoot paper ?

If there's not quality steel for all engagement ranges count me out.

 

[Sandow the Heretic]

Alex are you still setting the rules for Ko2M?

Rules are always a discussion between Eduardo, Walter and I.

-Alex

 

[Geno C.]

Folding bipods by chance?

 

[Sandow the Heretic]

Folding bipods by chance?

We had been discussing that for years and were pretty much just waiting for there to be a decent number of choices in folding bipods that were up to the task. We saw enough on the line this year to make that decision easy. Several of the folding bipods are clearly stronger and more rigid than the Phoenix which was designed for significantly lighter guns. Personally I think an awful lot of people had fallen into a trap of thinking that that was the only thing that worked.

-Alex

 

[Geno C.]

What new options have come to market to make he switch happen?

 

[Sandow the Heretic]

The three that I would personally consider are the Allied Precision, Atlas and Accu-Tac but there are a few others that have what it takes and are just issues of preference and shooting style. Some of these see use in Ko2M already but they are more common in FCSA hunter class which uses potentially heavier guns with higher recoil and has always required a folding bipod. Allied precision has been a top choice there for a a few years and other similarly built bipods are becoming popular in that crowd.

-Alex

 

[Geno C.]

None of those are really that new though

 

[Kasey]

B&T will be offering some new Atlas choices soon, hope to have them ready by SHOT. They will have some innovation and NO infringement built into them! Probably do a pre-order here on SH, will post up more when available.

 

[oneshot.onehit]

Kasey

Your 5H has been running on three different rifles now ranging from 24.9 to 41 lbs at the KO2M the last three years as well as other events. There are a few mods that could be done to improve the 5H but all in all they have treated us well.

Pictured is one mods we made that spreads the contact point pressure that helped eliminate the herky jerky when trying to level out the bubble on the rifle while shooting. You remember this picture, if you need you can pm me if you want any other feedback.

JH