KRG Bravo for CTR that can take TRG/CTR mags?

[snarkscarbine]

I currently have a Tikka in a Manners PRS1tk-MC that’s worth $1300. It’s a badass freaking stock.

I also have another Tikka in a KRG Bravo that’s $400. It’s a badass freaking stock.

The manners certainly has some sex/high-roller factor to it, but it’s in no way more ergonomic or comfortable than my (2) bravos. I’m a huge fan of both, and not in a “for the money” way.

 

[Maestro]

That's high praise from above.

 

[Novak77]

Sign me up for a Bravo that takes CTR mags too

 

[patriot07]

I do not doubt someone told you it wasn't going to happen anytime soon, that is not what was ridiculous. We were buried all last year. What I was referencing was your comparison to a Manners T4.

-You can tell by looking the ergonomics are going to be similar, they are both based around the Mcmillan A series shape.
-A T3 Bravo is $389
-Mag is another $50-75
That gets you a modular stock with a full length aluminum backbone, tool-less cheekpiece height, spacer LOP (spacers included), plus MLOK, QD, and KRG pattern mount points, magazine ready, NV mount ready, Spigot mount ready, Arca Rail ready, additional forends available, I could go on.

A Manners T4:
-$655 with adjustable cheekpiece height ($515 without), comes inletted
-Fixed butt/LOP
-pillars included for the epoxy bedding that is either a requirement or not totally necessary depending on who you ask.
-No bottom metal, no mag (both of those you get with the CTR so you save $ there)
-No mini chassis or aluminum backbone for that price
-MPA rail and NV mount are options, must be cut into the stock, does have optional LOP adjustment feature that can be added, limited other items.

I could get really deep into the weeds on the comparison and look at a cost of bringing the Manners up to a chassis standard for features but I won't. They are not directly comparable. You get so much more in a chassis, any chassis, not just KRG.

I know Tom and I like him, there's a definite place for the fiberglass/carbon fiber stocks. It's a different market. That's why we don't put up a full comparison list on our website. But to say that the cost is comparable and the ergo's aren't even remotely close is ridiculous. The cost is similar if you're looking at a logarithmic scale but a few hundred dollars in this situation is nearly the cost of another Bravo chassis or a lot of ammo.
Justin

I paid $620 for mine, shipped and all. Bravo plus shipping plus AICS is $503 on the site right now. 20% difference. Not nothing, but $117 is gone real quick if you start utilizing any of those features you pointed out above.

Anyone handloading with a CTR 6.5 with the long throat on the factory barrel with a few rounds down range (some throat erosion) is likely going to have to sacrifice accuracy to use your product with the AICS mags because they're going to be loading further from the lands. That alone is going to be a deal-breaker for a lot of people, and it was for me. My plan was to wait until I shot out my factory barrel and upgrade then...until I found the T4A.

I give you the LOP adjustment, but I had already said that. I don't care about a mini chassis or aluminum backbone (not even sure what that means, nor do I care) or rails/mounts or any of that stuff. I wanted an affordable, ergonomic upgrade to the factory CTR stock with, at a minimum, an adjustable cheekpiece. The Bravo and T4A both fit the bill, but only one of them took CTR mags, and the ergonomics, for me, on the T4A are far, far superior to the Bravo. I can't say enough about how much I like the way the grip feels on the T4A, and how much more comfortable I am with it than the Bravo stocks I tried. That's all personal preference, which is why I was trying to offer my opinion to a poster who was trying to decide between the two.

To add to that, after having used the T4A, I will no longer consider a Bravo in my future for any application unless maybe you guys come out with something for my 10/22. It is so far superior at such a negligible price difference that there is no upside to choosing it if you don't care about the add-on stuff that you mentioned. If you do want to be able to add all sorts of accessories, then I guess those folks probably love the KRG. And that's great, but it's just not for me.

 

[Macca]

That’s wonderful news that you’ve been able to excercise your rights & freedoms in a free market economy.
We get it.

 

[Stooxie]

I have a CTR and exactly zero interest in AICS mags. The CTR mags work great.

I see a lot of "letting perfect be the enemy of the good" here.

Also agree with the comment above, with modern CNC machines why not have the option? I understand that all product requires testing, and more so when firearm related, but supporting the factory mag is a guaranteed audience.

-Stooxie

 

[Dr.Sleep]

Another vote for a Bravo taking CTR/TRG mags.

 

[MarinePMI]

I paid $620 for mine, shipped and all. Bravo plus shipping plus AICS is $503 on the site right now. 20% difference. Not nothing, but $117 is gone real quick if you start utilizing any of those features you pointed out above.

Anyone handloading with a CTR 6.5 with the long throat on the factory barrel with a few rounds down range (some throat erosion) is likely going to have to sacrifice accuracy to use your product with the AICS mags because they're going to be loading further from the lands. That alone is going to be a deal-breaker for a lot of people, and it was for me. My plan was to wait until I shot out my factory barrel and upgrade then...until I found the T4A.

I give you the LOP adjustment, but I had already said that. I don't care about a mini chassis or aluminum backbone (not even sure what that means, nor do I care) or rails/mounts or any of that stuff. I wanted an affordable, ergonomic upgrade to the factory CTR stock with, at a minimum, an adjustable cheekpiece. The Bravo and T4A both fit the bill, but only one of them took CTR mags, and the ergonomics, for me, on the T4A are far, far superior to the Bravo. I can't say enough about how much I like the way the grip feels on the T4A, and how much more comfortable I am with it than the Bravo stocks I tried. That's all personal preference, which is why I was trying to offer my opinion to a poster who was trying to decide between the two.

To add to that, after having used the T4A, I will no longer consider a Bravo in my future for any application unless maybe you guys come out with something for my 10/22. It is so far superior at such a negligible price difference that there is no upside to choosing it if you don't care about the add-on stuff that you mentioned. If you do want to be able to add all sorts of accessories, then I guess those folks probably love the KRG. And that's great, but it's just not for me.

Bro...let it go. You've said your piece, as has Justin. You're just making yourself look petty now, with an axe to grind. You're bent that KRG didn't offer a CTR mag optioned chassis, so you went with Manners. We get it. Dragging this discussion on about Manners vs. KRG doesn't provide any benefit to the readers of this thread.

Just let it go and move on...

 

[Btrain]

Just looking for insight... I am very close to buying a Whky 3 and Bravo - What would be entailed to have them recut to fit the stock CTR mag? Is that feasible post production? any suggestions on a smith that would be interested in that work?

Thank you

 

[patriot07]

Bro...let it go. You've said your piece, as has Justin. You're just making yourself look petty now, with an axe to grind. You're bent that KRG didn't offer a CTR mag optioned chassis, so you went with Manners. We get it. Dragging this discussion on about Manners vs. KRG doesn't provide any benefit to the readers of this thread.

Just let it go and move on...

I didn't have any axe to grind when I submitted my first post - just offered my opinion and then was told by a company rep to take my thoughts elsewhere because he didn't like what I had to say about the product. So I stated that he was out of line and reiterated why I thought his product was inferior, and now you think I should take my thoughts elsewhere too. I get it - this is a KRG fan club meeting. I'll let myself out.

 

[NAS78]

I have both, a Manners T4A for my CTR and my Savage 10 in a KRG alpha 180. I enjoy both . Having said that, I'd really like to see a Bravo with CTR mag option. More options on the market is never a bad thing

 

[MarinePMI]

I didn't have any axe to grind when I submitted my first post - just offered my opinion and then was told by a company rep to take my thoughts elsewhere because he didn't like what I had to say about the product. So I stated that he was out of line and reiterated why I thought his product was inferior, and now you think I should take my thoughts elsewhere too. I get it - this is a KRG fan club meeting. I'll let myself out.

I doubt this is a KRG fan club, since many of us have a wide array of chassis from many different vendors. That being said, it IS a thread that is offering feedback to a vendor that is sizing up consumer demand to bring a product to market. The fact that you don't like the offering, and are pushing another vendor's offering, is FUCKING IRRELEVANT to this thread's question. Show some common goddamned courtesy to not shit in a thread when a vendor is asking for consumer feedback, as it hurts us all when vendors don't (or won't) do this because of cheap shots taken at them by posters. Since you're letting yourself out, this response is kind of pointless, save as a reminder to everyone else reading this, that there is a time and place to air differences of opinions. And it isn't in a thread where a vendor is soliciting consumer demand/response for a new product offering!

/irritated rant over

 

[Tucker301]

Everyone has stated their opinions and unless we set a new record on the Internet, no one is changing their minds on where they stand.
No need to keep hashing out the same debate points.
Move the thread forward.

 

[patriot07]

I doubt this is a KRG fan club, since many of us have a wide array of chassis from many different vendors. That being said, it IS a thread that is offering feedback to a vendor that is sizing up consumer demand to bring a product to market. The fact that you don't like the offering, and are pushing another vendor's offering, is FUCKING IRRELEVANT to this thread's question. Show some common goddamned courtesy to not shit in a thread when a vendor is asking for consumer feedback, as it hurts us all when vendors don't (or won't) do this because of cheap shots taken at them by posters. Since you're letting yourself out, this response is kind of pointless, save as a reminder to everyone else reading this, that there is a time and place to air differences of opinions. And it isn't in a thread where a vendor is soliciting consumer demand/response for a new product offering!

/irritated rant over

Goodness. There was a post from a user saying he wanted a Bravo with CTR but was considering a T4A. I responded directly to that post since I was in exactly the same boat awhile back. The thread wasn't started by the vendor - and the post I responded to wasn't the vendor's. In fact, the only time I directly addressed the vendor was when I was told by the vendor to take my opinion elsewhere.

You guys are something else...I thought the time and place to air a difference of opinion is when someone said they were considering two options...but apparently not.

 

[MarinePMI]

I have converted everything I have to AICS, so have no dog in this fight, but to move this thread forward I'd offer this suggestion.

If KRG were to offer a Bravo with a CTR mag option, I'd say they may want to consider if they could also mod the stock to support a spare magazine being held in the cut away underneath. Since many of these Bravos (due to their weight) are supporting hybrid rifles (hunting and target shooting) I'd think the ability to stow an extra mag (especially since the CTR mags are fairly short) in the stock would be a great option. Maybe change the mold for the Bravo skins, and sell the additional mag stowage as an option/upgrade....maybe for CTR and/or a 5rd AICS (now that I think about it).

Just thinking out loud here @Massoud ...

 

[Btrain]

Just looking for insight... I am very close to buying a Whky 3 and Bravo - What would be entailed to have them recut to fit the stock CTR mag? Is that feasible post production? any suggestions on a smith that would be interested in that work?

Thank you

I didn’t get any thoughts on this and thought I would ping back... Feasible? Who might be good to do it?

Thnks

 

[minn_wild1]

I would purchase a Bravo with a CTR mag option.

 

[Macca]

I would purchase a Bravo with a CTR mag option.

So would I.

 

[260284]

I didn’t get any thoughts on this and thought I would ping back... Feasible? Who might be good to do it?

Thnks

You would need someone with a mill to square up the magazine opening and you would need a TRG Catch Extender.
https://kineticresearchgroup.com/product/trg-catch-extender/

The CTR magazines do not taper like the AICS magazines, so you need to have the sides of the mag opening milled square with the rear of the opening.

@Massoud can weigh in on this. I have seen it discussed on here somewhere.

 

[260284]

I would purchase a Bravo with a CTR mag option.

Especially if we get the .223 CTR in the US.

 

[CaptNemo]

I’m giving this a bump to the top since we’re a couple of weeks after SHOT and everything should be close to “normal”. Hopefully we’re all done with purse swinging by this point in time.
Any updates on this chassis @Massoud ?

 

[patriot07]

Especially if we get the .223 CTR in the US.

223 CTR in a Bravo with the CTR mag would be sweet!

 

[K1978]

It is not dead, SHOT and holiday season just slow things up. It's not a 100% go but it's far from dead. If we only offered one chassis version, which would you guys purchase: W-3, Bravo, X-ray?
Thank you,
Justin

I’d go with the Bravo

 

[Yoteski]

I would go for a Bravo with a CTR mag inlet. Have a Tac A1, and although the chassis is very nice, I think it would be better in a Bravo.

 

[Radioactiv]

Could cost be saved on the design by just making a stock that could fit either bottom metal or are they machined in as one piece? I know theres plenty of CTR bottom metals floating around. I have two

 

[Yoteski]

Could cost be saved on the design by just making a stock that could fit either bottom metal or are they machined in as one piece? I know theres plenty of CTR bottom metals floating around. I have two

Having to use factory bottom metal seems counter-intuitive to the chassis design. I don't see how it would cut any cost, and it seems that it would create a weak point as far as fit and feeding. One of the biggest draws to a chassis over a traditional style stock is not having to source, and fit bottom metal.

 

[Graywolf.260]

The point is to be able to use Tikka CTR or TRG magazines instead of AICS mags. If KRG offered a Bravo chassis modified for the CTR then it would cut costs because CTR owners could use the bottom metal and mag from their factory Tikka CTRs.

 

[Yoteski]

The point is to be able to use Tikka CTR or TRG magazines instead of AICS mags. If KRG offered a Bravo chassis modified for the CTR then it would cut costs because CTR owners could use the bottom metal and mag from their factory Tikka CTRs.

I understand what you're saying, but why not just have the chassis inletted to take the mags without using the factory bottom metal? If I was KRG I'd prefer to keep QC with my own product, not have bolt-ons from a factory configuration.

 

[CaptNemo]

I understand what you're saying, but why not just have the chassis inletted to take the mags without using the factory bottom metal? If I was KRG I'd prefer to keep QC with my own product, not have bolt-ons from a factory configuration.

That's what the intention is:
Leave the bottom metal with the old stock, drop the barreled action and trigger in the chassis and the chassis will be machined with the proper recess and latches for the CTR mag instead of an AICS Mag.

 

[chevy_man]

Could cost be saved on the design by just making a stock that could fit either bottom metal or are they machined in as one piece? I know theres plenty of CTR bottom metals floating around. I have two

They're all one piece. No bottom metal which is great for people like myself who are building customs off bare actions. Makes it much easier than inletting for a certain bottom metal, not to mention cheaper.



I'm more curious why the Tika won't feed from magpul acis?
I always hated the $80+ magazine game after I went through my ar phase of $8 mags or the PSA free mags with 1k rds.
Now that magpul has a reasonably priced aics mag for all lengths, I'll be happy to use them. $80 to convert my bdl 700's to a standard mag seems like a bargain.

Oddly enough I used a few of the legacy sports plastic bottom metal with their plastic mags. Flawless feeding, even with the notoriously hard to feed 6br out of a $65 setup. But I never see anyone who will admit to using it since it's so cheap and not what the cool kids are using.

I've gone to aics since I've found the magpul to work perfectly for me. The only benefit over the legacy sports setup is I can easily find a replacement mag locally or borrow one of need be at a shoot.

 

[MarinePMI]

Tikka's have issues with the plastic mags due to the feedlips being thick, presenting the round at a lower than acceptable height for the bolt face to strip it off the mag. Some have thinned the lips a bit to allow the round to be picked up, but thinner plastic lips means that they will just fatigue/crack earlier.

Using AI style metal mags isn't so much about "what the cool kids are using" so much as it is about buying a quality mag that works. All the time. Everytime.

Metal mags are also much more durable than plastic mags. This isn't 3 gun AR shooting, so dumping mags isn't really an issue (these are mostly bolt actions here, right?). I have some metal AI mags that have been in use for over 10 years now. I doubt anything made of plastic is going to survive the years and the sheer number of rounds that have been expended through these metal mags. Highly doubtful.

 

[CaptNemo]

I literally "Pulled the Trigger" on a Midas Two-Stage a minute ago.
If KRG had a CRT Magazine option for the Bravo, I would have added it to the order and spent that money too.

 

[Dman3931]

I am in on a Bravo with CTR. I have no interest in going with AICS mags, the CTR is perfect for what I use it for.

Was originally in on getting one of the new Manners Tikka stocks, but as they are no closer today, than 14 months ago when I first ordered, of making the mini chassis that would allow me to keep the CTR mags, I decided to cancel.

Hopefully KRG moves faster than that.

 

[patriot07]

I am in on a Bravo with CTR. I have no interest in going with AICS mags, the CTR is perfect for what I use it for.

Was originally in on getting one of the new Manners Tikka stocks, but as they are no closer today, than 14 months ago when I first ordered, of making the mini chassis that would allow me to keep the CTR mags, I decided to cancel.

Hopefully KRG moves faster than that.

They've had T4a and T6a options with CTR inlets for a long time. But yeah, hopefully KRG gets a Bravo/CTR option as well - the more options the better it is for all of us Tikka owners. I hated that the Manners group buy this year was only for the 700 footprint.

 

[vereceleritas]

I'd be in for a W3 that takes CTR mags but it seems the Bravo/CTR option is the clear favorite.

 

[CaptNemo]

I went to install my new trigger on my CTR and the Midas trigger shoe is about .050” wider than the slot in the OEM CTR bottom metal.
If there was a CTR mag option on a Bravo, I would have taken the No-Go as a sign from God himself and broken out a credit card to get a chassis to fit my trigger...

Yeah, it’s ass backwards logic, but sometimes you need a little self-justification to fall off of some $$$

 

[wade2big]

I went to install my new trigger on my CTR and the Midas trigger shoe is about .050” wider than the slot in the OEM CTR bottom metal.
If there was a CTR mag option on a Bravo, I would have taken the No-Go as a sign from God himself and broken out a credit card to get a chassis to fit my trigger...

Yeah, it’s ass backwards logic, but sometimes you need a little self-justification to fall off of some $$$

Couple swipes with a file and that trigger will drop right in. Your logic is spot on. Lol

 

[PrepareSmarter]

What is the benefit of a CTR mag over the Accurate Mag AICS magazines?

 

[wade2big]

What is the benefit of a CTR mag over the Accurate Mag AICS magazines?

Shorter, smoother, and much easier to load.

 

[CaptNemo]

CTR mags are double stack, so they are shorter in height than AICS pattern.
Most importantly, I have 3 CTR mags vs 0 AICS mags

 

[MarinePMI]

As most have stated, it's the height of the CTR mags that people want. The CTR mags are more comparable to AW mags, not the AICS pattern.

 

[NiemiPT]

Any news about CTR Bravo?

 

[CaptNemo]

I’m giving this a bump to the top since we’re a couple of weeks after SHOT and everything should be close to “normal”. Hopefully we’re all done with purse swinging by this point in time.
Any updates on this chassis @Massoud ?

Now the NRA Show. Any updates ? @Massoud ?

 

[NiemiPT]

I guess that T1x was way more important.

 

[CaptNemo]

I couldn't wait. I bought a Bravo and a few MDT IACS Mags...
There are CTR mags in the Post Exchange if anyone needs spares.

 

[Massoud]

We have something coming, parts are being cut but we're still a couple months out. Thanks guys,
Justin

 

[TheBrokePilot]

Any updates on the Bravo with CTR mags? I just put a 6.5 ctr in CA Dros jail and I’m thinking about what chassis to put it in the future.

 

[clenhart]

Also interested in an update. Would purchase immediately...

 

[dustingaunder]

I’d buy one to replace my Manners and my dad would buy one to upgrade his factory stock today.

 

[Massoud]

They're coming fellas, I don't have a date for you but should be inside of 2 months. Thank you,
Justin