Night Vision L3 LWTS vs M18 640

[TestnDoc]

The bottom line is that L3 really does not care about the civilian market. Their Govt contracts keep them very busy, so that is their emphasis. If one of the vendors has an in with them then good. I have talked to the folks up north several times and while they are very courteous they provide no help so far. Some on here apparently have had better luck.

Shooter,
I contacted L3 directly, via phone. I got their voicemail, and left my contact info including my email address. I figured I wouldn't hear back from them. However, I got an email from them within 2 hours, and had an RMA for the firmware update for my LWTS the next morning...I consider that excellent customer service, especially for a little peon like me

 

[shooter6.5]

I would consider that excellent service also. My experience is just the opposite. I initially contacted them the first time weeks ago and several times since, talked once and am still waiting on a reply which I was told would be very soon. Still not yet. Maybe they just like you and not me.

BTW, what was the update to the soft ware all about !! What does it do now that it did not several months ago.

 

[TestnDoc]

I was told the software upgrade is to enhance image processing, which is already smokin good, and to improve/make easier sighting in the reticles. I assume that is for stand alone mode.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Saw the invoice from L3 today that they shipped the goods last week 8/13 UPS GROUND, we placed that order a few months ago when we heard folks were having difficulties getting parts, some of which after spending 10K+ should have been included . We let them know that too.

Unless the brown truck gets stuck in a storm, we should be seeing this by weeks end.


Vic

Parts I mentioned for the LWTS just showed up today.

Battery Carrier Assembly
Cover, Objective
DVO Hood, ACOG
DVO Hood, M68
Shuttered Eyeguard Assy.

They will be on our web site shortly, but folks can call in to order these before we get them up. Thanks.

Vic

 

[TestnDoc]

I ordered today. Thanks Vic for the excellent customer service.

 

[jinbinhan]

How to update the firmware？thank u！

 

[black lightning]

Vic Thanks for the prompt service. I picked up the ACOG hood from you. Works great, fast service.

 

[stymie]

Hello Vic...

Do you have Eyepiece Adapter Ring, ITEM #10, SPN-020-A1 "IN-STOCK"?

My L-3 LWTS has a manufacturer's date of February, 2014 & serial # 0066X. Were you able to determine a cut-off date or serial # range for the recent software/firmware upgrade?

Thanks & have a great weekend!

John

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Hello Vic...

Do you have Eyepiece Adapter Ring, ITEM #10, SPN-020-A1 "IN-STOCK"?

My L-3 LWTS has a manufacturer's date of February, 2014 & serial # 0066X. Were you able to determine a cut-off date or serial # range for the recent software/firmware upgrade?

Thanks & have a great weekend!

John

Hey John, no adapter ring as yet but thought it may not be made any longer....Checking on that and still getting an official word on the firmware subject matter. Our direct contact folks are still checking with engineering.

Vic

 

[stymie]

Thanks, Vic...

I managed to acquire ITEM #8 Interface Hood, NSN 5855-01-561-8116, PART # CQB-630-02. This TAN colored, rubber shroud requires the Eyepiece Interface Adapter Ring for attachment to the LWTS. It seems that I'm 1/2 way there, but in conversations with various associates at WARRIOR SYSTEMS, I'm under the impression that it is either NO longer made... OR that it might become available once again should demand become sufficient enough for outsourcing.

John

 

[stymie]

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Copy John. Thanks!

 

[stymie]

When I ordered the RCO from Brenda Smith of L-3 WARRIOR SYSTEMS, she had advised me that ITEM #8 (the tan shroud pictured above) will continue to be available. I thought it a bit odd in that the Eyepiece Adapter Ring (required for attaching this hood to the LWTS) was no longer available. What a conundrum, eh?

I acquired the shroud/hood anyway in the hope that sooner or later, the eyepiece adapter ring might become available to complete the assembly, correctly. I'm the eternal optimist. In any event, I thought that there might be some way to tinker something together to make it work w/o the ring. I found that the threaded RCO is a perfect fit for this purpose; the CCO is too short. While the RCO does not have the ridge that fits the corresponding groove in the rubber shroud/hood... it has the correct OD & OL as well as coefficient of friction to work as a complete unit. The shroud is designed for the smaller objective 4x32 ACOG rather than the 6x48 MGO ACOG I have mounted on my LWRCI REPR, so there's that! Screw the RCO on to the LWTS eyepiece & slip the shroud over the longer tube & you're in business. I thought that I'd pass this on to those who use the smaller ACOG on their sticks. I still want the eyepiece adapter, but that's just me.

If anyone can point me in the right direction to obtain the eyepiece adapter ring, it would be greatly appreciated.

Vic... Does your 4 AA battery cassette come as an "assembly": ITEM #11, TWB-014-A1 (Battery Pack) PLUS ITEM #12, TWB-605 (Protective Case)?

 

[stymie]

L-3 WARRIOR SYSTEMS Engineering courtesy of Amanda Antonico provided the following communique regarding the software/firmware upgrade...

Good afternoon,

The quickest method of verifying which revision of code is on this system is to check the Status Sub-Menu, which displays the version of the software & firmware loaded onto the sight. If you're unsure of how to reach the Status screen, please consult the Operator’s Manual. The most up-to-date code revisions are shown below.

(Note: Below image was taken from the Army OM, so both the software & firmware revisions are outdated & shown only for reference purposes only.)

SW VERSION: 1.2.0.0
FW VERSION: 1.1.1.3

The software upgrade prevents the very obscure occurrence of an OLED display reset due to a PESD (Personal Electro-Static Discharge) when the eyepiece retaining ring is touched, which in turn causes an image shift that does not resolve until the sight is power-cycled.

If indeed, the sight in question needs software updating, please contact our Field Returns department ( [email protected] ) & this will be covered as a warranty repair… the programming takes less than three minutes to perform, so we can turn it around & have it back to you within 2-3 days including shipping (we will cover all shipping costs).

As for your quote request, the pricing for these spares has not been established. I submitted a pricing request to Finance, but it might take a little while to receive pricing back.

Best Regards,

Amanda Antonico, RP

*I certainly appreciate Amanda's attention in this matter & hope this post helps clear up the software/firmware issues. The reference to a "quote request" has to do with a question I posed about "normal replacement" items such as "O" rings & other components that will need replacement at some point due to normal wear & tear...

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Very good info John. Thank you for posting!

Vic

 

[stymie]

You are welcome, Vic...

In my prior post # 113 (above), "Vic... Does your 4 AA battery cassette come as an "assembly": ITEM #11, TWB-014-A1 (Battery Pack) PLUS ITEM #12, TWB-605 (Protective Case)?" ...I tried to send you an "e-mail" via the software on this site regarding a couple of issues that I was unclear about; I'm not sure if I was successful. Did you receive it or is there a better way to arrange a brief chat with you by phone regarding the components & pricing? TNVC said you that were not available when I called last week.

Thanks,

John

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Hi John,

Never got the email, my guess SPAM and I was out of town on business. Here is the pic of the battery assembly we have. Give me a PM if you like as well. Thanks.

 

[TestnDoc]

Just got my LWTS back

 

[cake5150]

I'm waiting for mine to come back currently. Did they reset your shot counter to zero or were there no rounds under it? I'm itching to get some more rounds under mine, it was at 103 when it left my possession to head to L3 for the update.

 

[TestnDoc]

Mine is still a virgin

 

[stymie]

Good morning... !

There's probably still a few LWTS units that display the following on their MENU, mine included:

SW VERSION 1.1.0.10
FW VERSION 1.1.1.3

TestnDoc, have you had a chance to experiment with yours to determine if any significant improvement to your LWTS has been gained or other changes have occurred as a result of the upgrade? As it is strongly suggested, I suppose that I had better get with the program & send mine packing.

 

[TestnDoc]

Good morning... !

There's probably still a few LWTS units that display the following on their MENU, mine included:

SW VERSION 1.1.0.10
FW VERSION 1.1.1.3

TestnDoc, have you had a chance to experiment with yours to determine if any significant improvement to your LWTS has been gained or other changes have occurred as a result of the upgrade? As it is strongly suggested, I suppose that I had better get with the program & send mine packing.

I dont see a major change in image quality, but the LWTS is so good it is unreal. I took it out the other night, after a rain and with very high humidty, and image was just phenomenal. None of my FLIR units would have been very useful after that rain fall. I cant wait to see how the new L3 MTM-PI performs.

 

[cake5150]

L-3 WARRIOR SYSTEMS Engineering courtesy of Amanda Antonico provided the following communique regarding the software/firmware upgrade...

Good afternoon,

The quickest method of verifying which revision of code is on this system is to check the Status Sub-Menu, which displays the version of the software & firmware loaded onto the sight. If you're unsure of how to reach the Status screen, please consult the Operator’s Manual. The most up-to-date code revisions are shown below.

(Note: Below image was taken from the Army OM, so both the software & firmware revisions are outdated & shown only for reference purposes only.)

SW VERSION: 1.2.0.0
FW VERSION: 1.1.1.3

The software upgrade prevents the very obscure occurrence of an OLED display reset due to a PESD (Personal Electro-Static Discharge) when the eyepiece retaining ring is touched, which in turn causes an image shift that does not resolve until the sight is power-cycled.

If indeed, the sight in question needs software updating, please contact our Field Returns department ( [email protected] ) & this will be covered as a warranty repair… the programming takes less than three minutes to perform, so we can turn it around & have it back to you within 2-3 days including shipping (we will cover all shipping costs).

As for your quote request, the pricing for these spares has not been established. I submitted a pricing request to Finance, but it might take a little while to receive pricing back.

Best Regards,

Amanda Antonico, RP

*I certainly appreciate Amanda's attention in this matter & hope this post helps clear up the software/firmware issues. The reference to a "quote request" has to do with a question I posed about "normal replacement" items such as "O" rings & other components that will need replacement at some point due to normal wear & tear...

MOTHER OF GOD look at the shot counter on that thing!! I've got some serious catching up to do. That is simply hilarious, I am saving that picture

 

[stymie]

My apologies for being a bit off topic, but I have been getting WARNINGS from GOOGLE & an AV Program (McAfee) on my pc that indicate MALWARE when I attempt to link to this webpage from time to time. I was wondering if other members have been experiencing the same thing. It's apparently an intermittent issue or glitch of some kind, but I thought that I'd post an advisory for members here.

 

[SkyPup]

Firefox also warns it is an attack page.

 

[Vette447]

Stymie, did you ever find the threaded ring for your #8 hood? I just got my LWTS in and I would really like to have a #8 hood and a #13 hood setup.

 

[stymie]

Hello Vette447...

I've been researching that issue for some time, now. If only someone in the know would divulge who the manufacturer/supplier of the polymer plastic & rubber components that are "outsourced" is, I would be willing to bet that there could be a few items collecting dust in their facility. Then again, confidentiality agreements/contract obligations might limit that as a viable option. After consulting various divisions within L-3, it would appear that item #10, the eyepiece adapter ring, is NO longer available, NOR is item #13, Interface Hood, Long. However, if you have item #14, the RCO & item #8, the Interface Hood, you can combine them for an effective substitute as I mentioned in an above post. It will not work on the larger objective 6x ACOG, but would be a match for the 4x ACOG. I'm contacting the Usual Suspects & searching various internet forums for the parts you & I are trying to obtain. Apparently, there wasn't sufficient demand for L-3 to justify stocking/requisitioning certain items that at one point made for a "complete kit". I've also found that some SKU numbers have changed since the operator's manual was printed & reflect the military operator's manual rather than the civilian... complicating things a bit.

I'm trying to piece those new numbers together as I'd like to have a few, spare, miscellaneous wear item parts available at some point as the source often gives L-3 estimated delivery times of up to 90 days prior to sending them to end-users/distributors. If I find some solid info beyond this post that might be of help, I will reply, ASAP. Good luck with your quest!

BTW: Did your LWTS come with the new software "upgrade"? If so, please comment on the eyepiece/electro-statically induced, image shift remediation.

 

[Vette447]

Thanks for the info and the good work. Hopefully a source can eventually be found for a few of those items that we are looking for. Mine did come with the software update. I do still notice a little image shift periodically which is a bit annoying but I think it is all do to the auto calibration kicking in every 30 seconds or so. It is not enough of a shift to make you loose what you were looking at but it is a bit noticeable. Unfortunately I have not had enough of a chance to play with it to this point. I will try to go out back tonight and play with it with auto setting turned off and see how that looks. So far, the image quality I am getting is pretty impessive. Especially when you really focus it in.

 

[Vette447]

Also, has anyone made or found an economic video out cable solution for the LWTS? The only place I know that has one sells them for $490 and that is probably too much for the casual amount I would use it but I would like to have one.

 

[stymie]

Supply vs Demand, number of units purchased by a distributor, L-3's "dealer"/wholesale prices for the "precious" metal, multi-prong connectors, distributor/customer loyalty/multiple purchases of Thermal Weapon Sights/viewers & common accessories for a variety of other NVD related items will determine the final cost of the video cable assemblies to the end-users. Haggling... err, negotiating isn't always an effective way around the issue & while this business is somewhat competitive & at times a bit emotional, I have yet to see a bargain unit.

The connectors are EXPENSIVE, regardless, & your supplier will assemble the complete unit at whatever length you require. My understanding is that 6" is one of the more popular lengths. That said, I'm currently at a loss for suggesting an "economic" solution.

If a proprietary/non-standardized connector is involved for a particular device, you are forced to pay dearly in order to play. One thing leads to another; GOT DVR? Is it ever enough & what are you willing to pay while ultimately considering limited usage?

If I shell out that kind of money for a THERMAL device, I want a complete kit at some point & fairly soon; DVR & cable included. I'll skip politics & prioritization, but you just never know whether policies regarding certain ITAR related products will affect your ability to acquire support items in the future. "The times they are a changin'... !" ...on a State by State basis & .gov involved influence is instrumental in determining civilian policies.

In any event, I was kicking an idea around with an associate who is familiar the LWTS. Some distributors have admitted that they find communications with L-3 Engineering can be painfully time consuming. I'm trying to determine if a viable alternative to all the cable spaghetti could be achieved by using the LWTS video out socket & plugging in a tiny transmitter with matching connector as a modular unit similar in function to a baby monitor that could be fabricated for remote viewing.

I'll admit my priorities are a bit skewed & I tend to get long winded... but I thought I'd pass on whatever I come up with as I confirm options even if I've had too much Java this morning while catching up on current events.

I hope everyone has a most excellent weekend with a bit of safe shooting tossed in for good measure.

 

[ThermalSpy]

Hi guys,
we just finished building 100 L3 LWTS cables, for sale now and ready to overnight, here is a photo. That little silver connector on the end is beautiful.

 

[stymie]

Sometimes, I'm a bit reluctant to send a piece of expensive gear back & forth via common carriers; the stories I could tell. Is anyone else holding off on the software upgrade either because they are satisfied with their LWTS' current performance or are waiting to see if any potential glitches turn up with the reprogramming? I'm good on the warranty for a few more months & currently, taking a "wait & see" approach for the time being. Being relatively new to thermals, I have to wonder how often upgrades of this nature are typical.

I have the older software & intentionally touched the eyepiece ring to determine if an ON/OFF reset might be required to stabilize a possible image shift; no such problem has manifested & I'm a little puzzled.

Then again, I'm tempted to send it out for a fairly quick turnaround & take advantage of L-3's offer to cover the 3 minute operation, send off & return shipping.

To those of you who have had the software upgrade done, were you provided a prepaid, insured shipping label (.pdf?) & additionally, have you noticed improved performance or quirks with your unit?

Any comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[cake5150]

Sometimes, I'm a bit reluctant to send a piece of expensive gear back & forth via common carriers; the stories I could tell. Is anyone else holding off on the software upgrade either because they are satisfied with their LWTS' current performance or are waiting to see if any potential glitches turn up with the reprogramming? I'm good on the warranty for a few more months & currently, taking a "wait & see" approach for the time being. Being relatively new to thermals, I have to wonder how often upgrades of this nature are typical.

I have the older software & intentionally touched the eyepiece ring to determine if an ON/OFF reset might be required to stabilize a possible image shift; no such problem has manifested & I'm a little puzzled.

Then again, I'm tempted to send it out for a fairly quick turnaround & take advantage of L-3's offer to cover the 3 minute operation, send off & return shipping.

To those of you who have had the software upgrade done, were you provided a prepaid, insured shipping label (.pdf?) & additionally, have you noticed improved performance or quirks with your unit?

Any comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I received my updated unit a few weeks ago and haven't noticed any differences yet. I was not provided a label to send it to them, I paid UPS ~$105 to ship that thing insured... ouch. They did cover return shipping though. The image is still spectacular as ever, the shot counter was reset to zero which I thought was interesting. Great piece of equipment.

 

[oubeta]

TAG

I sent me M18 off to FLIR and they fixed the stiff focus ring. It's smooth now. I have both units and will give some input later today when I have time to read the thread more.

 

[cake5150]

TAG

I sent me M18 off to FLIR and they fixed the stiff focus ring. It's smooth now. I have both units and will give some input later today when I have time to read the thread more.

Looking forward to reading your thoughts and opinions since you have both.

 

[SkyPup]

Here is some FLIR M-18 Recon video I took a while back in my backyard:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx32hJH_rpI


This is looking down a powerline where I can see a mile easily....

 

[flyboy101]

Hey Oubeta, how much did they charge you to fix the stiff focus? Did they do anything else? My m18 is one of the older units that has the stiff focus.