L42A1 & Enforcer reloading

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Happy new year to all of you

Hmm... . What about the GGG 155 gr-Match-Ammo in the rifles above ? It seems to be - a more or less - trendy ammo. Nowadays.

Which became a Issue-Match-Ammo in UK. Some Years ago, 2014 IMHO.

And there are some older L42 A1-Style-Conversion-Enfields still today in use as Target Rifles.

Could anybody test this ammo in a L42 A-Enfield, perhaps. Not all can or may reload their ammo.. .

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

There is another interesting 155 gr Factory-Match-Load: the Hornady 155 gr BTHP. In a barrel in the L42 A1-Style she reached 2775 f/s or 845 m/s MV.
That should be a mild loading

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

 

[Rock Chucker]

If you reload for an L42a1 can i suggest looking at 4064? I have a replica fitted with dimensionally similar Sportco produced barrel and a Mark 3 scope. The previous owner tried Win748 and 4064 / 2208, with a 155 grain Sierra Palma i regularly see sub 1 inch groups at 100 meters. Incidentally the previous owner has a genuine L42a1, it has a definite preference for Win 748.

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

If you reload for an L42a1 can i suggest looking at 4064? I have a replica fitted with dimensionally similar Sportco produced barrel and a Mark 3 scope. The previous owner tried Win748 and 4064 / 2208, with a 155 grain Sierra Palma i regularly see sub 1 inch groups at 100 meters. Incidentally the previous owner has a genuine L42a1, it has a definite preference for Win 748.

Thanks, Rock Chucker. That sounds really interesting. Because I can't remember such a handload-info before.. I saw some of them.. .

Is a pic from your replica possible ?

Win748... Wait a moment.. I'll search something... .

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Now I got it - its not the powder on the YouTube-Video :

And therefore interesting.. .
Hmmm .. Hopefully one day somebody can use that.. .

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

This Win748-Loads: What about the powder-charge then, please ?

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

If you reload for an L42a1 can i suggest looking at 4064? I have a replica fitted with dimensionally similar Sportco produced barrel and a Mark 3 scope. The previous owner tried Win748 and 4064 / 2208, with a 155 grain Sierra Palma i regularly see sub 1 inch groups at 100 meters. Incidentally the previous owner has a genuine L42a1, it has a definite preference for Win 748.

There is - considering all impressions, experience - the IMR 4064 the powder of choice at least 2020/2021 for this well-known match-load: Federal 308 Win. 175 grs "Gold Medal".
This 41,7 grains. This is a different bullet-weight, of course. Despite that, this factory-load is explicitly described as suitable for the L42 A1 and his "siblings".
Wether it works well with 155-grain-bullets too generally, I don't know yet..

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

A bit more ammo..

155 grain-175 grain Match...

 

[Rock Chucker]

I just checked in this morning will post a photo of the L42A1 replica shortly, the load i use is mild at 42.5 grains of 4064 with the 155 Sierra. I dont like running heavy loads on any rear locking Enfield action. I figure the 155 is close to the original Radway Green load of 144 grains if my memory serves me. I also built up an M24 Replica on a long action and in that i run 4064 and the Sierra 175 BTHP @ 41.7 grains

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

It's better being careful. On the other side you really know what's for your rifle working not before you have chronographed it, measured this MV. The kind of the action is not the only relevant aspect here.

There are - luckywise - quite different powdertypes and -quantities able to reach interesting MV's .. That's basically nothing new. Please have a look:

https://www.enfield-rifles.com/federal-308-ammunition_topic10494.html

Federal produces their famous "Gold Medal"-Match-Load also for the civilians in such a similar way as with the Mk316-Service-Round. Despite that it should even suit - explicitely - to the 7,62-Nato-Enfield-Rifle. So, according to this thread - a member got an email from Federal with this content. The mentioned 41,7 gr IMR 4064-charge is the solution for this surprise, and this in the .308 Win.-Case.

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Back to your 155 gr-Load with 42,5 gr IMR 4064: the Radway Green 144 gr L2 A4 Service-Ammo reached 2'850 f/s or 868 m/s as Muzzle Velocity in a 26,5-inch-barrel of a L8-Conversion. (One of the first test-barrels from 1959 until the mid-1960's).

Many of the other 7,62 Nato-Service-Rounds -and copies had a MV of between ca. 2790-3905 f/s or 850-884 m/s in an 27,5'-inch-Enfield-Matchbarrel, simllar to a L42 A1. The 3 different Selliers: green Competition-, black-silver- and the yellow Topshotbox, the Fiocchi, diverse MEN inkl. SM-Surplus, Saltech, RUAG, GGG and some more... .

What MV has your 155 gr-Reload then, please ?

 

[Rock Chucker]

From Memory as tested with Lab Radar it ran roughly 2730 with very low Standard Deviation at 11. I set up a Lee Classic to drop 2208 / 4064 to 42.5 grains over using my RCBS Charge Master. Cases were American Eagle (Lake City) 7.62 new brass. I will find the photo I took at the range whilst testing, I am very happy with the results considering the 3 piece stock and 3 power scope

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

That's a really low velocity... This ca. 832 m/s or 2730 f/s.. . Fantastic Standard Deviation.. . I'm excited for that pic..

The powdercharge is according to Hogdons-Loading-Data even under the startload.. . Hmmm..

 

[cuirc]

Here is my refined load for the L42A1:

Sierra 155 grain MK (#2155)
LC Match Brass (case weight 179.5 grains), match-prepped
VV N140, 46.0 grains
Fed M210 primer
Loaded OAL 2.80" to feed through magazine

Average velocity was 2785 fps, 85 degrees

This may not be a "light load" but I used the OCW system to develop this load. YMMV.

Hope this helps.

longebow

pardon my ignorance but what is ocw

 

[longebow]

Optimum Charge Weight
Using my Redding RB-3, I would drop powder in small incremental increases, measuring velocity and point of impact. When bullets "clustered" despite small increases in powder, then the middle of that charge weight was the "sweet spot" or OCW.

 

[cuirc]

Optimum Charge Weight
Using my Redding RB-3, I would drop powder in small incremental increases, measuring velocity and point of impact. When bullets "clustered" despite small increases in powder, then the middle of that charge weight was the "sweet spot" or OCW.

thank you

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Another kind of sweet spot
Respectively his work. Spontaneously added here..

Such an accuracy, despite my very short aiming.
I can online be amazed. That's Match-Ammo-Accuracy.

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Another still better sample, found now

 

[FlightRN]

The Federal Palma Match loads are intriguing. However, I'd be interested to know if any shooters noticed any (even if slight) chambering issues given the Enfield rifles had a 7.62x51 chamber and the Federal cartridges are .308W

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

The Federal Palma Match loads are intriguing. However, I'd be interested to know if any shooters noticed any (even if slight) chambering issues given the Enfield rifles had a 7.62x51 chamber and the Federal cartridges are .308W

View attachment 8547457
View attachment 8547458

Hello FlightRN
See https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/ruag-swiss-p-175-gr-308.7083297/#post-11489009, please..

The Federal GM .308 W 175 grs Match is a trouble-free load in my D73. The same goes for their 168 grs GM. Chambering issues: Zero.

 

[cuirc]

I have used 308 dia bullets for many years with no observation of negative observations

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

In a L42 A1-Rifle, for example...? Or...

Maybe including a Sierra 175 gr SMk, with similar powdercharge as the GM?

P. S.:
I received your
other message,
Cuirc, today.. Which
ammo is affected ?

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

The Federal Palma Match loads are intriguing. However, I'd be interested to know if any shooters noticed any (even if slight) chambering issues given the Enfield rifles had a 7.62x51 chamber and the Federal cartridges are .308W

View attachment 8547457

You're just making us jealous !

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

The Federal Palma Match loads are intriguing. However, I'd be interested to know if any shooters noticed any (even if slight) chambering issues given the Enfield rifles had a 7.62x51 chamber and the Federal cartridges are .308W

View attachment 8547457
View attachment 8547458

Flight RN: to complete my answer to your question I add this info. In the first moment I didn't remember this material. Don't worry about Federal 168 grs Gold-Medal-Match in this rifles.

In the Enfield-Enforcer-Documents on Mark Stevens great - unfortunately gone - earlier version of site - are a few infos concerning ammo visible. And the Range. (After Downloading, I printed out what i could get in 2007 already, luckywise.

I quote a part of this infos: In the Document Final Specification: 7,62 mm Ammunition: Any 7,62 mm Service Cartridge, Ball, Tracer, or Blank, may be fired in the Police Rifle. It is, however, the intention to use high accuracy Service Ball ammunition as is issued for use by the Service Sniper. This is identical to the high accuracy ammunition supplied by the Ministry of Defence to the NRA for use at the 1970 and 1971 Imperial Meetings at Bisley, where many records were set up, which resulted in reductions in the size of target scoring areas for 1972.

In the Document Choice: The selection of a suitable rifle 23.
In considering the selection of a suitable rifle for police use we had in mind the following factors - which seemed to us to be desirable features for the police long range weapon: It must be able to achieve a very good standard of accuracy in the sort of situation envisaged in paragraph 21. Accuracy will be paramount and the firer should be able, at will; to hit deliberately a man's head at 300 yards, and be capable of putting his shots trough an average domestic window at longer ranges, The rifle and its ammunition must have an effective range of about 500 Yards and possibly more to cope with some of the situations we had in mind. There must be a ready supply of high quality ammunition and it is desirable that the weapon chosen should have the backing of adequate servicing arrangements.

Out of the Document What is a Enforcer ?: Original Specification: Cartridge 7,62 x 51 Radway Green"Green Spot"Target Ammunition (This was the best at this time. I know, that some Police forces now work with"Gold Medal Federal Ammo"(at circa 1,10 Pound per round) They may not load their own - and this is undoubtedly a more accurate one (If you know, what you do !) But as a force they would no doubt be sued if something went wrong - that is not allowed.)

BR

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Just in case you meant only the Federal 155 gr Palma Sierra MatchKing HPBT-Ammo, I couldn't use it here. And few mentionings on the web.

But despite that this link from me above answers this, too. Sometimes the links work not all properly, therefore again:

https://www.enfield-rifles.com/federal-308-ammunition_topic10494.html

Topic: Federal. 308 Ammunition Posted: April 10 2020 at 7:00pm

I emailed Federal Ammunition a couple of days ago and explained my concerns with firing commercial .308 ammunition in a rifle designed for the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge. Their email response was to say that all of their commercial .308 ammunition, (specifically the 175grn BTHP Gold Match) is a superior choice in all rifles chambered for the 7.62x51. They sent three attachments with the email.
They would not divulge any PSI numbers however.(trade secrets).

Background of this "good news" is - as far as we know - an earlier accident with a .303 British Federal-round.

I tried out 3 different 168 gr Federal GM-Match-rounds and the 175 gr-sibling, too. As above mentioned, too, I had absolutely no trouble. The oldest box 168 grs reached a MV of 833 m/s/2732 f/ps , surprisingly, then followed 815 m/s/2673 f/ps and 811 m/s/2660/fps, respectively.

Quick search, I could only find one of this shooting-pics, the 175 grs-GMM. Bad short aiming, but then.. .

 

[wooferocau]

My L42A1

Win 748 and Sierra 155gr Palma...

 

[Winchester M70 Van Orden]

Nice pics.. Why the 3-shot-groups ?