Lab radar over magnetto

[Gohring65]

I’ve been considering a new gadget, and I’m trying to determine if the lab radar tracking velocity to 100 yards is valuable data. I have the magnetto and have good data out to a mile with some of my rifles.
I feel if it tracked to 400 it would be a no brainer. But 100??
What am I missing with knowing 100 yard velocity.?

 

[TEUFEL820]

IMO you wouldn't be missing anything. As long as you have a muzzle velocity everything else can be calculated. Even if it measured velocity up to a thousand all you would be doing is confirming the speed loss from the drag factor of the bullet. Velocity is only part of your firing solution.

 

[Gohring65]

IMO you wouldn't be missing anything. As long as you have a muzzle velocity everything else can be calculated. Even if it measured velocity up to a thousand all you would be doing is confirming the speed loss from the drag factor of the bullet. Velocity is only part of your firing solution.

That’s exactly what I was thinking.
I’m trying to talk myself into, or out of getting one.

 

[Steel head]

Labradar is nice at times and a pain in the ass at others.
I just keep my magnetospeed and have no regrets.

 

[Scttschnd]

I use a Magneto Speed and a Silver Mountain Solo Electronic target (to 1000 yds) so I can have MV and TV. Velos are back calculated from Solo target and match up well with the MV. Shooting on Etargets from 100-1000. I use the basic Magneto Speed. Not often enough and sometimes just forget how to run the menus but it provides the data I need. The V3 has a better data panel IMHO and a few more bits. Friend has the Lab Radar, he has it all figured out an offers use of it.
Make sure it is secure to the barrel. I have had mine come loose using the M/Speed strap on. Need to upgrade to the rod attachment kit.

 

[Gohring65]

I use a Magneto Speed and a Silver Mountain Solo Electronic target (to 1000 yds) so I can have MV and TV. Velos are back calculated from Solo target and match up well with the MV. Shooting on Etargets from 100-1000. I use the basic Magneto Speed. Not often enough and sometimes just forget how to run the menus but it provides the data I need. The V3 has a better data panel IMHO and a few more bits. Friend has the Lab Radar, he has it all figured out an offers use of it.
Make sure it is secure to the barrel. I have had mine come loose using the M/Speed strap on. Need to upgrade to the rod attachment kit.

Now that’s cool. I think tracking TV and MV out that far would be valuable. I’m going to have to look into that.

 

[spife7980]

I feel if it tracked to 400 it would be a no brainer. But 100??
What am I missing with knowing 100 yard velocity.?

A magneato speed has two electro magnets right in front of the muzzle that the bullet flying over disrupts the magnetic field. Measure the time it takes to travel the distance between those two point changes in its electro magnetism and you get the velocity of the object.

A labradar is radar that makes a bunch of pulses and many readings of that bullets path for as far as it is able to resolve the bullet. Sometimes thats 100 yards, sometimes its only 30 depending on bullet and terrain etc. What it does then is use those pulse patterns it measured and calculates what its speed was at the muzzle was with its time between the points and growth in time between points. Its not so much giving you the speed at 100 yards, which by itself isnt very helpful to you, but it is creating a velocity decay curve basically that it figures out its original muzzle speed with. The more points its able to grab (ie the further out it able to keep measuring the bullet) the more accurately it can map that velocity curve.

 

[Supersubes]

Maybe I have the most perfect Labradar ever, but its stupid easy to set up and use. I just plop it down next to the gun and it works. Zero effort put in to aiming it. I could see terrain being an issue depending in where you shoot. I dont want to hang the magneto off the barrel. The downrange velocities on the radar are useless imo and I think they should bury that feature in the menu tree somewhere, and just put avg/es/sd on the screen while shooting a string.

 

[db2000]

Labradar is nice at times and a pain in the ass at others.
I just keep my magnetospeed and have no regrets.

^^^^This exactly.

 

[Feniks Technologies]

If you want to do more with chrono, get an oehler setup that calculates time of flight and then spits out a BC.

Otherwise, pick your poison on chrono. I use a Labradar with an inertia trigger. Almost never any issues when not relying on the microphones to trigger.

 

[Gohring65]

A magneato speed has two electro magnets right in front of the muzzle that the bullet flying over disrupts the magnetic field. Measure the time it takes to travel the distance between those two point changes in its electro magnetism and you get the velocity of the object.

A labradar is radar that makes a bunch of pulses and many readings of that bullets path for as far as it is able to resolve the bullet. Sometimes thats 100 yards, sometimes its only 30 depending on bullet and terrain etc. What it does then is use those pulse patterns it measured and calculates what its speed was at the muzzle was with its time between the points and growth in time between points. Its not so much giving you the speed at 100 yards, which by itself isnt very helpful to you, but it is creating a velocity decay curve basically that it figures out its original muzzle speed with. The more points its able to grab (ie the further out it able to keep measuring the bullet) the more accurately it can map that velocity curve.

Ok, so it’s not even offering anything over the magnetto.
Just a different form of measurement.

 

[Supersubes]

Ok, so it’s not even offering anything over the magnetto.
Just a different form of measurement.

I may have misread spifes post, but it is reading velocity at individual points. Google “doppler shift”.

 

[spife7980]

Ok, so it’s not even offering anything over the magnetto.
Just a different form of measurement.

Exactly, they do the same thing but in different ways.
One straps onto the barrel and moves with the rifle but touches the barrel. The other is independent of the barrel and doesnt touch but it doesnt move with the rifle and requires independent aiming.
The muzzle velocities both reports should be really really close. Mine averaged like 4fps difference for a 10 shot sample when I shot over both of them at the same time.

 

[TEUFEL820]

There are various methods out there. pick your poison. Applied Ballistics uses different methods so they can cross compare any velocity disparity between the chronographs. They also use acoustics to measure velocity. Basically a microphone at the muzzle and another at the target. One mic picks up the muzzle blast and the other the bullet impacting the target. Then they measure the bullet flight time between the two readings. Pretty cool stuff.

 

[parshal]

If you want to do more with chrono, get an oehler setup that calculates time of flight and then spits out a BC.

I have a labradar and magnetospeed and use both regularly for different scenarios. I picked up an Oehler 89 last month and the data it's giving cannot be gathered with the others.

 

[Feniks Technologies]

I have a labradar and magnetospeed and use both regularly for different scenarios. I picked up an Oehler 89 last month and the data it's giving cannot be gathered with the others.

Yea, that’s what I was saying. The oehler 89 and other systems are the only thing that will give you any data you won’t get from a regular chrono.

 

[db2000]

Muzzle velocity to get started but there’s no substitute for range data with you rifle and load.

 

[Supersubes]

I wouldnt use the oehler if it was free. No doubt it works as advertised, It just doesn't fit with how I shoot(multiple ranges and targets), and the thought of setting up sky screens again raises my blood pressure.

 

[whatsupdoc]

4.3 How The Ballistic Coefficient is Measured by Firing Tests - Sierra Bullets

www.sierrabullets.com

I was reading how Sierra calculates BC and it seems that Labradar should be able to provide BC numbers.

 

[Huskydriver]

Labradar with inertial trigger is to easy

 

[parshal]

I wouldnt use the oehler if it was free. No doubt it works as advertised, It just doesn't fit with how I shoot(multiple ranges and targets), and the thought of setting up sky screens again raises my blood pressure.

I agree. However, I was able to collect the actual BC and BC variation at 500 yards of bullets where I was cutting noserings with Tubb's nosering tool. There is no system out there that will do that unless you own a doppler radar.

 

[Supersubes]

I agree. However, I was able to collect the actual BC and BC variation at 500 yards of bullets where I was cutting noserings with Tubb's nosering tool. There is no system out there that will do that unless you own a doppler radar.

I dont find that particularly useful. For relatively little money, you can get very precise Litz BC’s on anything you’d consider shooting at long range. Or use available BC’s, which are getting better all the time. Any scenario still requires you to shoot to confirm.

 

[parshal]

I dont find that particularly useful. For relatively little money, you can get very precise Litz BC’s on anything you’d consider shooting at long range. Or use available BC’s, which are getting better all the time. Any scenario still requires you to shoot to confirm.

I know we're derailing the OP's thread but I think you'd be very surprised.

AB BCs are close but still require calibration. They do not have anything for bullets that are trimmed, pointed or have Tubb's nosering modifications. You have to shoot those at distance and modify your curve to adjust for the modifications. Additionally, I think you'd be very surprised at how different the real BC is in your system vs what is advertised or tested by AB.

The Oehler gives precise BC that you simply plug into your system and shoot. Yes, you need to verify but you don't need to calibrate muzzle velocity or BC.

I used it for my 22 and tested at 158 yards. I tested the BC it gave me at 136 yards. It was dead-on while the curve I created in the Kestrel using DSF out to 100 was .4 mils high.

 

[Gohring65]

I know we're derailing the OP's thread but I think you'd be very surprised.

AB BCs are close but still require calibration. They do not have anything for bullets that are trimmed, pointed or have Tubb's nosering modifications. You have to shoot those at distance and modify your curve to adjust for the modifications. Additionally, I think you'd be very surprised at how different the real BC is in your system vs what is advertised or tested by AB.

The Oehler gives precise BC that you simply plug into your system and shoot. Yes, you need to verify but you don't need to calibrate muzzle velocity or BC.

Don’t ever worry about high jacking one of my threads when technical data is being shared. That’s what I’m after. More technical data no matter what it is.
Keep the info coming, i don’t care what turn we take as long as it’s good info, I truly welcome it.

 

[Herb Stoner]

Exactly, they do the same thing but in different ways.
One straps onto the barrel and moves with the rifle but touches the barrel. The other is independent of the barrel and doesnt touch but it doesnt move with the rifle and requires independent aiming.
The muzzle velocities both reports should be really really close. Mine averaged like 4fps difference for a 10 shot sample when I shot over both of them at the same time.

I like my Magnetospeed - consistent and dependable and it has yet to blow over! Its on a mount so never touches the barrel. Just a quick clamp onto the arca rail on the chassis And set up time is about 30 seconds.

 

[parshal]

I wouldnt use the oehler if it was free. ... the thought of setting up sky screens again raises my blood pressure.

I forgot to mention that the Oehler 89 can be used without skyscreens to gather TOF which can then be used to get BC. You simply put a microphone at the muzzle and a mic array at any supersonic distance and it will give you TOF. If you're using a magnetospeed or labradar at the same time you now have velocity and TOF and there are multiple calculators that will give you BC with that info.

It is also the only system out there (other than Doppler) that can tell you the SD of your BC.

 

[Supersubes]

I know we're derailing the OP's thread but I think you'd be very surprised.

AB BCs are close but still require calibration. They do not have anything for bullets that are trimmed, pointed or have Tubb's nosering modifications. You have to shoot those at distance and modify your curve to adjust for the modifications. Additionally, I think you'd be very surprised at how different the real BC is in your system vs what is advertised or tested by AB.

The Oehler gives precise BC that you simply plug into your system and shoot. Yes, you need to verify but you don't need to calibrate muzzle velocity or BC.

I used it for my 22 and tested at 158 yards. I tested the BC it gave me at 136 yards. It was dead-on while the curve I created in the Kestrel using DSF out to 100 was .4 mils high.

I understand what youre saying, and how the system works, im just not going through all that when I have to shoot it anyway. The labradar can gather every velocoty for all rounds fired on multiple targets with minimal setup.

The ELR guys cant use a single BC, so they’re doing a bunch of truing anyway.

Im not buying a tubb nosering license, not trimming trimming/pointing meplats, etc. I cant recall the last time I entered the hornady mach 2.0 bc for a host of ELD’s and was dang close. Literally been years.

 

[parshal]

Im not buying a tubb nosering license, not trimming trimming/pointing meplats, etc.

I thought all that a waste of time as well. However, I want to use the Berger 6.5 153.5 in a 22" 6.5 Creedmoor for NRL Hunter. I also want to use that as a truck gun for coyotes when I'm bird hunting. I want that bullet to explode on impact (we can argue the stupidity of that in another thread) so decided to try the nosering.

I only cared about the explosive part not the BC. Well, I tested it and found, with a .020" cut, my G7 BC improved by 6 points which is unusual. More importantly, though, the BC SD went from 1.4% variance out of the box to .6%. That's huge. There's no way to measure that without radar or the Oehler. I don't have ready access to Doppler.

Note, I think most folks probably believe the nosering is a gimmick but that's because nobody has the equipment to test it.

 

[6.5SH]

I thought all that a waste of time as well. However, I want to use the Berger 6.5 153.5 in a 22" 6.5 Creedmoor for NRL Hunter. I also want to use that as a truck gun for coyotes when I'm bird hunting. I want that bullet to explode on impact (we can argue the stupidity of that in another thread) so decided to try the nosering.

I only cared about the explosive part not the BC. Well, I tested it and found, with a .020" cut, my G7 BC improved by 6 points which is unusual. More importantly, though, the BC SD went from 1.4% variance out of the box to .6%. That's huge. There's no way to measure that without radar or the Oehler. I don't have ready access to Doppler.

Note, I think most folks probably believe the nosering is a gimmick but that's because nobody has the equipment to test it.

At what distance are you using the Oehler to measure BC?

 

[parshal]

I did the 22 in my yard at 156 just to test it out. I'll do that one at my local range out to 300-400 'ish. I did the 153.5 at 500 yards since that's the farthest I had ready access to. Once things get warmer and there's less snow I'll be testing just before transonic which is 1350 - 2000 yards depending on the cartridge.

 

[NY700]

I have both the LabRadar and the magneto.

I prefer the LabRadar and with the updated app even more.

I shoot a ton of different rifles. Fact is some are a pain to fit the magneto on. I run the LabRadar with an inertia trigger and I keep a solar battery pack with it to power and it runs like a champ. I never worry about battery and rarely get a no read due to the inertia trigger. I keep it all in a little harbor freight aluminum case. It’s been great

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

If you want to do more with chrono, get an oehler setup that calculates time of flight and then spits out a BC.

Otherwise, pick your poison on chrono. I use a Labradar with an inertia trigger. Almost never any issues when not relying on the microphones to trigger.

The LabRadar is just so hit and miss. If you are shooting big, loud rounds- like a 308 with out a suppressor- it works fine. Sub 22s, ugly. Not loud enough to trigger, and the little bullets don’t like to be tracked….

The inertial trigger does make it lot more useful. Pairing your phone to the unit so you can turn it on and off with out upsetting its AI point is critical since working the action will set off the trigger.

Oehler 89 l

That thing is $3k…..

Someone on another thread had a way of working the Labradar date into BC values…

 

[Gohring65]

I have both the LabRadar and the magneto.

I prefer the LabRadar and with the updated app even more.

I shoot a ton of different rifles. Fact is some are a pain to fit the magneto on. I run the LabRadar with an inertia trigger and I keep a solar battery pack with it to power and it runs like a champ. I never worry about battery and rarely get a no read due to the inertia trigger. I keep it all in a little harbor freight aluminum case. It’s been great

Now that’s something I wasn’t thinking about. Multiple rifles is a pain with my magnetto.
But I don’t chrony everytime I go out. I usually get data and not use it again until something changes.

 

[Feniks Technologies]

The LabRadar is just so hit and miss. If you are shooting big, loud rounds- like a 308 with out a suppressor- it works fine. Sub 22s, ugly. Not loud enough to trigger, and the little bullets don’t like to be tracked….

The inertial trigger does make it lot more useful. Pairing your phone to the unit so you can turn it on and off with out upsetting its AI point is critical since working the action will set off the trigger.



That thing is $3k…..

Someone on another thread had a way of working the Labradar date into BC values…

Obviously this isn’t for everyone. But many, many here have multiple $5k rifles and $3k optics just sitting in their safe.

$3k to know real information that can help all those rifles is relatively inexpensive.