LabRadar ... in case you're listening

[rustyinbend]

Dear LabRadar ... you have a problem, and it's name is "Garmin". The best way to solve that problem is to get your new LabRadar LX into the hands of as many people as possible, just as quickly as possible, even if it means "buying" a little market share. The LX looks like an interesting hybrid device, but it's late to market, and carries some significant baggage left over from the old LabRadar (buggy phone app, bulky form-factor, trigger and battery issues, etc.). Getting people like the readers on this forum to get one and start talking positively about it, is your best and only hope for retaining at least some significant percentage of your market share. The Garmin is (a) feature rich, (b) very flexible, (c) reasonably priced, and most importantly ... (d) available.

You need to make a bold move now, or you're going to be crushed by the bull-dozer that says "Garmin" on the license plate. By the time the LX ships and is in a position to gain some momentum, this race will be over, and you'll never catch up.

Here is my suggestion: While the final version is waiting to ship ... and for ~90 days thereafter, offer a "Trade-In/Trade-Up" special to existing LabRadar owners, and allow them to pre-order / purchase the new LX with a "Rebate" program. Sell the LX at the standard price, and between now and, say, June 1st, that sale comes with a rebate coupon where once your new LX arrives, you send in the coupon with proof of LX purchase, and your old LabRadar, and get a rebate check for (I'm suggesting) $150. If you did this, you'd get the LX into the hands of literally thousands of existing LabRadar owners, you'd "freeze" at least some percentage of the Garmin target audience, and give yourself time to catch up.

Or you can do nothing, and allow the Garmin Xero to literally "steal" your target market. Choose wisely, your next steps. If all you do is finish the LX and put it out there for normal sales ... you're gonna get creamed. (Don't say we didn't warn you.)

Sincerely,

An Existing LabRadar Owner that would buy an LX if it had an early-adopter rebate program.

 

[J_D]

Too little, too late!

 

[Hennig]

They’re not listening, and never have been.

 

[rustyinbend]

Too little, too late!

For many ... yes. I've already got my Garmin, but I'd still consider the LX if it came with a meaningful discount or rebate. At list price ... NFW !!!

 

[J_D]

I wouldn't consider it, if they sent me a free one.

Crappy customer service is still crappy customer service. They had the market, and rode that horse to death instead of into the sunset.

 

[Rocketmandb]

Dear LabRadar ... you have a problem, and it's name is "Garmin". The best way to solve that problem is to get your new LabRadar LX into the hands of as many people as possible, just as quickly as possible, even if it means "buying" a little market share. The LX looks like an interesting hybrid device, but it's late to market, and carries some significant baggage left over from the old LabRadar (buggy phone app, bulky form-factor, trigger and battery issues, etc.). Getting people like the readers on this forum to get one and start talking positively about it, is your best and only hope for retaining at least some significant percentage of your market share. The Garmin is (a) feature rich, (b) very flexible, (c) reasonably priced, and most importantly ... (d) available.

You need to make a bold move now, or you're going to be crushed by the bull-dozer that says "Garmin" on the license plate. By the time the LX ships and is in a position to gain some momentum, this race will be over, and you'll never catch up.

Here is my suggestion: While the final version is waiting to ship ... and for ~90 days thereafter, offer a "Trade-In/Trade-Up" special to existing LabRadar owners, and allow them to pre-order / purchase the new LX with a "Rebate" program. Sell the LX at the standard price, and between now and, say, June 1st, that sale comes with a rebate coupon where once your new LX arrives, you send in the coupon with proof of LX purchase, and your old LabRadar, and get a rebate check for (I'm suggesting) $150. If you did this, you'd get the LX into the hands of literally thousands of existing LabRadar owners, you'd "freeze" at least some percentage of the Garmin target audience, and give yourself time to catch up.

Or you can do nothing, and allow the Garmin Xero to literally "steal" your target market. Choose wisely, your next steps. If all you do is finish the LX and put it out there for normal sales ... you're gonna get creamed. (Don't say we didn't warn you.)

Sincerely,

An Existing LabRadar Owner that would buy an LX if it had an early-adopter rebate program.

Garmin is the bomb. Everyone else in market has a problem.

 

[chevy_man]

Garmin is the bomb. Everyone else in market has a problem.

This.

Competition is good, but when you have idiots sitting on products for years with zero movement towards improving them they deserve to get smashed. Labradar got how many years out of the junk they started with? Garmin would never have gotten a toe hold if they updated every year or two like normal tech.

 

[Rocketmandb]

This.

Competition is good, but when you have idiots sitting on products for years with zero movement towards improving them they deserve to get smashed. Labradar got how many years out of the junk they started with? Garmin would never have gotten a toe hold if they updated every year or two like normal tech.

I talked about this in another thread, but Labradar could never have come out on top once Garmin got into the game. The reason is that Labradar is a technology company, while Garmin is a product company - and one of the better ones in existence. Labradar brought the technology to this industry, Garmin productized it.

 

[Boatninja]

Dear LabRadar ... you have a problem, and it's name is "Garmin". The best way to solve that problem is to get your new LabRadar LX into the hands of as many people as possible, just as quickly as possible, even if it means "buying" a little market share. The LX looks like an interesting hybrid device, but it's late to market, and carries some significant baggage left over from the old LabRadar (buggy phone app, bulky form-factor, trigger and battery issues, etc.). Getting people like the readers on this forum to get one and start talking positively about it, is your best and only hope for retaining at least some significant percentage of your market share. The Garmin is (a) feature rich, (b) very flexible, (c) reasonably priced, and most importantly ... (d) available.

You need to make a bold move now, or you're going to be crushed by the bull-dozer that says "Garmin" on the license plate. By the time the LX ships and is in a position to gain some momentum, this race will be over, and you'll never catch up.

Here is my suggestion: While the final version is waiting to ship ... and for ~90 days thereafter, offer a "Trade-In/Trade-Up" special to existing LabRadar owners, and allow them to pre-order / purchase the new LX with a "Rebate" program. Sell the LX at the standard price, and between now and, say, June 1st, that sale comes with a rebate coupon where once your new LX arrives, you send in the coupon with proof of LX purchase, and your old LabRadar, and get a rebate check for (I'm suggesting) $150. If you did this, you'd get the LX into the hands of literally thousands of existing LabRadar owners, you'd "freeze" at least some percentage of the Garmin target audience, and give yourself time to catch up.

Or you can do nothing, and allow the Garmin Xero to literally "steal" your target market. Choose wisely, your next steps. If all you do is finish the LX and put it out there for normal sales ... you're gonna get creamed. (Don't say we didn't warn you.)

Sincerely,

An Existing LabRadar Owner that would buy an LX if it had an early-adopter rebate program.

Some improvement into warranty/tech support would be a pretty good idea also.
I sold my LR as soon as I saw the Garmin advertised. I'm just gonna stop now.

 

[Slides]

Garmin is the bomb. Everyone else in market has a problem.

I haven't had any issues with my FX True ballistics, would love to know what to look out for? I know bulletseeker/andiscan and the original labradar have issues.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Or you can do nothing, and allow the Garmin Xero to literally "steal" your target market. Choose wisely, your next steps. If all you do is finish the LX and put it out there for normal sales ... you're gonna get creamed. (Don't say we didn't warn you.)

Garmin didn't "steal" anything.

They earned that market fair and square.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Is this a joke?

Their first mistake was farming out customer service and then not firing that company for bad customer service. Their second mistake was not caring about the product.

 

[whatsupdoc]

How is Labradar a technology company when they cant even get Bluetooth a technology that rolled out
in the year 2000 to work 20 years later.

 

[drglock]

What Labradar did is pretty common in the moderen era here today. I started work for a company in 1990 that was number one in the United States and pretty close to being number one in the world. We had 12 plants here in the US , one in Europe, one in the UK and one in Australia. Fast forward 32 years I retired and a year after that due to bad leadership and piss poor sales model they filed bankruptcy, closed 70% of there plants world wide and then sold off the company to a foreign conglomerate and are pretty much non existent.

 

[Rocketmandb]

How is Labradar a technology company when they cant even get Bluetooth a technology that rolled out
in the year 2000 to work 20 years later.

The core technology they brought to market was using radar to capture bullet velocity. That technology was their sole focus and was groundbreaking as a consumer-available product. Bluetooth, to your point has been around for a long time and is table stakes in many applications, which makes it a product feature - a product feature they completely failed on. You need to be a radar technology expert to put a product like this into market. You don't need to be a Bluetooth expert to add such to your product. I'm a walking example of that. I once developed a product using Bluetooth and knew nothing about the technology - I hired a company that did to write the firmware.

Other things that are product features that they missed on:

- A user-friendly (or even working) mobile app
- Size/form factor - the thing is a sail and takes its own carrying bag to haul around
- Battery life (I mean, why even have a massive bank of AA batteries when they die out in a couple hours)
- Robust construction (the battery door constantly comes off and I still have something rattling around inside my case)

As others have said, their big miss was that they launched a 1.0 product (some may say a 0.9 version) and sat on their laurels. Launching a 1.0 (or 0.9) product, learning from the market, then creating a 2.0 product is a great strategy. The world is littered with failed companies who tried to launch first with a 2.0 product and failed due to feature fatigue. Labradar's problem was that they had plenty of time to go to market with a 2.0 version that addressed all of the above shortcomings and they didn't do it quickly enough, so others learned from their first product then launched a 2.0 product themselves.

This is product development 101 and they utterly failed at it. Hence, why they are not a product company.

On the other hand, Garmin has the resources and, more importantly, product know-how to skip a generation in product development. While others, including Labradar, are launching their 2.0 products, Garmin put a gen-3 product into market. I've owned a number of Garmin products ranging from a watch to a $10k+ aviation GPS/Navcom. Every single one has been well thought out and is a true "product" - form, fit, function. That's why Garmin is a product company and why I also don't hesitate to look to them first for products that fit in their wheelhouse.

The fact that they are now in the mix means that all the other new entrants are going to have to up their game and come out with their next-gen product (e.g. 3.0) quickly just to catch up.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

I use Garmin products every day. The advice Rusty offered is years too late.

 

[rustyinbend]

I use Garmin products every day. The advice Rusty offered is years too late.

No argument ... just trying to make a suggestion to LabRadar that "might" (could possibly) result in their next-gen product getting broader visibility with early adopters, and salvage at least some percentage of the market share they're losing literally every day they don't do something bold. My old boss used to say ... "You go to market with what's on the truck" ... and LabRadar either figures out a way to make the LX more palatable, or they simply lose early and fade into obscurity.

 

[OREGUN]

Why do we care to help Labradar? That’s weird behavior. You figure someone at LR is wringing their hands over their slipping market share and just needed some advice about what to do? I don’t understand the point of this thread. Do you have any advice for Magnetospeed? Ohler? Maybe you are a significant shareholder? The market will do what it will with Labradar and anyone who even walked by the business school at their university knows what Labradar could/should have done to avoid becoming obsolete….like literally any iterative innovation. Pushing back against the giant that is Garmin is another problem which might be impossible anyway.

 

[rustyinbend]

Why do we care to help Labradar? That’s weird behavior. You figure someone at LR is wringing their hands over their slipping market share and just needed some advice about what to do? I don’t understand the point of this thread. Do you have any advice for Magnetospeed? Ohler? Maybe you are a significant shareholder? The market will do what it will with Labradar and anyone who even walked by the business school at their university knows what Labradar could/should have done to avoid becoming obsolete….like literally any iterative innovation. Pushing back against the giant that is Garmin is another problem which might be impossible anyway.

No real nefarious motive here ... just making a suggestion that, if followed, might help them. It's a product I liked for a long time, and that worked really well for me. It saddens me to see them making early launch decisions that are not going to help them. I don't see it as "weird behavior" ... but if you do, then you'll truly believe the rest of my behaviors are "beyond bizarre". This one is mild by comparison.

 

[Chris W.]

I'm not interested at all in the new labradar device. The Caldwell Velociradar looks like it could be a winner since it will detect downrange velocity as well from the ads I've seen.

 

[Ex E6]

LR's seem to be dropping in price ,both new and used . Perhaps falling out of favor ?.

I personally question the cost of Radar units to begin with . Similar to people who pay $460.00 + for 8 lb. powder .

IF people pay their price ,they will SELL ALL THEY CAN PRODUCE . Stop purchasing for a month and see where prices go

 

[rijndael]

LR's seem to be dropping in price ,both new and used . Perhaps falling out of favor ?.

The aren't falling out of favor, it's already done ... past tense. It's a fire sale on any left over inventory.

 

[waveslayer]

Sound advice and maybe a great case study for a University to pick up. What they had was amazing, but after years of falling short with Customer Service and improving their product they left a lot to be desired... Like how hard is it to add a little sight?

Glad Garmin is here, Labradar will be the new Circuit City, if they aren't already

 

[strikeeagle1]

. Like how hard is it to add a little sight?

Pretty simple & effective.
My solution.

 

[mr_fullmetal]

LabRadar is a day to late and a dollar to short…

 

[SpaceDyeVest]

No real nefarious motive here ... just making a suggestion that, if followed, might help them. It's a product I liked for a long time, and that worked really well for me. It saddens me to see them making early launch decisions that are not going to help them. I don't see it as "weird behavior" ... but if you do, then you'll truly believe the rest of my behaviors are "beyond bizarre". This one is mild by comparison.

I like this a lot. There's a good chance this link gets sent around LR HQ. Sure, there's all kind of stuff happening behind the scenes we don't know about. But there's actually a good chance someone there's been thinking about this similarly, and hasn't had the guts to push it yet. Now they might.

America loves a comeback story. Failure, not so much.

 

[rijndael]

There's a good chance this link gets sent around LR HQ.

If they cared what forum folk think they would have heard our complaints over the past decade about their app, broken usb ports, and other fixable items.

 

[Ex E6]

So this seems to be the top of the line unit now : Any actual reviews or is it still too New ?

Caldwell VelociRadar Chronograph. @ $550.00

 

[JMGlasgow]

It's made by Caldwell. Everything they sell is complete garbage.

 

[Oryx]

Pretty simple & effective.
My solution.

View attachment 8365643

It's so intuitive that a sight tube had to be added and instructions needed to be labeled to the bottom just to get it to work

BTW - Strikeeagle - that isn't aimed at you and your improvements ... just Lab radar ... pun intended.

 

[Shoots 700's]

I have a LabRadar and bought a Garmin. I’ll never look back at anything made by LabRadar

 

[rustyinbend]

It's made by Caldwell. Everything they sell is complete garbage.

I have high hopes for the VelociRadar, and the feature set is pretty strong, but I'd have to admit that every Caldwell product I've bought in the past was unimpressive and seemed to be very cheaply constructed.

 

[rustyinbend]

I have a LabRadar and bought a Garmin. I’ll never look back at anything made by LabRadar

I am in the same bucket ... have used my LabRadar successfully for years and just got my Garmin. My point to LabRadar is simply that if they don't give us some meaningful incentive to try what they're saying is their "next-gen" product, few if any of us in their target market will get one. The "Gadget Guy" in me likes some of the LX features, and given some meaningful financial incentive to give it a try ... I could be convinced to buy one and see if I like it. Do the math. Let's say there are 10,000 LabRadar users on this forum, and only 200 of them (2%) say "Hey, with a $150 off trade-in rebate I'll give it a try" ... that would be 200 early adopters that could dramatically influence the trajectory of this product, and would cost LabRadar only $30,000 in lost margin to fund it ($150 x 200).

Right now ... 100% of us are saying "Screw LabRadar LX - I'm going with Garmin". If LabRadar doesn't do something bold to change that ... they're screwed. That's my point.

 

[Taylorbok]

No one is sending in their LR for $150 when they are fetching $400 second hand

 

[rustyinbend]

No one is sending in their LR for $150 when they are fetching $400 second hand

Lots of 'em on GunBroker between $300 and $450 ... none of them with any bids. It's hard to say where the Used-LabRadar price-point will level off. Anybody "actually" getting $400 for a used on should jump at that.

 

[Taylorbok]

Lots of 'em on GunBroker between $300 and $450 ... none of them with any bids. It's hard to say where the Used-LabRadar price-point will level off. Anybody "actually" getting $400 for a used on should jump at that.

I got 550 Cad (about 400 usd) for mine a couple weeks ago. A local shop runs a firearms auction so I sent it through there.

 

[rustyinbend]

I got 550 Cad (about 400 usd) for mine a couple weeks ago. A local shop runs a firearms auction so I sent it through there.

Congrats ... you definitely cashed out at the best time.

 

[021411]

Until Brownells’ policy changes, that’s why I prefer to buy tech items from them when I can. I bought my LR from them over 6 years ago and sent it back recently. I received a full refund via a gift card. Can’t beat that.

 

[rustyinbend]

Until Brownells’ policy changes, that’s why I prefer to buy tech items from them when I can. I bought my LR from them over 6 years ago and sent it back recently. I received a full refund via a gift card. Can’t beat that.

Wow ... I've gotta believe this one slipped through the cracks. I'd be shocked if that happened for bunches of old LabRadar purchases from them. Anybody else out there get this return consideration from Brownells'?

 

[Cascade Hemi]

No one is sending in their LR for $150 when they are fetching $400 second hand

A cursory look at FB Marketplace says they are not fetching $400 in this region. There are a dozen listed in four states ranging from $400 to $600 and they are not moving.

 

[021411]

Wow ... I've gotta believe this one slipped through the cracks. I'd be shocked if that happened for bunches of old LabRadar purchases from them. Anybody else out there get this return consideration from Brownells'?

It’s their “Guaranteed. Forever.” policy

 

[308pirate]

There's a good chance this link gets sent around LR HQ.

 

[308pirate]

The OP's idea is about as useful as the guy who wrote an "open letter" to Hodgdon asking where the powder at

 

[missed]

Labradar....

My looking maybe $250-300. Mine can be bitchy, but it's still getting the job done. I have a 3D printed scope like above to aim mine. I thought about trying to sell it to get the Garmin, I guess I'll run mine till I throw it in the trash

 

[j-moose32]

@Taylorbok you hit a home run with that. The PX has been littered with them and you can’t give them away

 

[rustyinbend]

Didn't know about that Brownells' guarantee ... that's amazing. I need to buy more stuff from there.

 

[021411]

Didn't know about that Brownells' guarantee ... that's amazing. I need to buy more stuff from there.

Not a lot of people know about their policy which surprised me. I kept the box in the closet and the LabRadar in decent shape over the years. You could tell it was handled and used but not abused. I turned around and used the credit towards an MDT ACC Elite. A year or two from now when the latest and greatest comes out I’ll do the same.

 

[Shoots 700's]

Ill give mine to someone around my shooting community that needs one

 

[308pirate]

Ill give mine to someone around my shooting community that needs one

Wow has Labradar become essentially worthless?

Is it the Betamax of the chrono world?

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Wow has Labradar become essentially worthless?

Is it the Betamax of the chrono world?

No. I just sold mine 10 minutes ago.

There is a market for used LabRadars. There are about a dozen for sale in my region that range from $300 to $600 asking price. All of them have been for sale for more than a week. I listed mine for $225 with accessories and it sold in under an hour. I had three other interested parties.