Whats your experience with the LabRadar Doppler Chrono? How do you guys think it compares to a MagneetoSpeed chrono? Pros/cons? Thanks in advance.
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- Thread starter CBO Actual
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I've had a Labradar for probably 4 months now, I think its great. Its pricey for sure but if you take the time to set it up properly it functions very well. I don't really have any complaints about it to this point other than price. I went from the traditional chonograpgh using light to this and I will never look back. If you have it set up to read out to 100 yards you can get a rough g1 bc as well using a calculator. you can also shoot groups without anything effecting your barrel harmonics. The price is one of the big things to get past, but if you have the money I believe it is a good investment. I'm typically shoot at a range that has tons of trees and I don't get any interference. I don't shoot at a public range so I can't comment on how other shots effect the performance but I believe that can be tuned as well. I have used it for everything from 50BMG to a suppressed .22lr and Ive gotten it to work for me. If you're big into reloading and development I would recommend it.
Thanks guys. My MagneetoSpeed crapped the bed and I've been seeing a lot of fellas running the LabRadar so I figured I would look into it. Thanks again for your input.
I just finished my 3rd outing with my new Labradar and I love it. I had a hard time finding as many video reviews and Sniper's Hide reviews as I usually would like before buying something like this though. In fact, most of the YouTube reviews I found were negative reviews. I think the trend was that people weren't having it trigger properly, and then I talked to a guy at my local range that let me try his and I bought one that evening. The key is just making sure the LR is pointed aimed properly at your target. I think at ranges with more than one target to engage people have a tendency to aim the LR at one target and then it fails to trigger when they aim at a target in a completely different location. Just something to keep in mind.
If your targets are all in enfilade (i.e. in line at 100, 200, 400 etc...), you wouldn't even have to worry about that.
Knowing that - I have only had failures to trigger when maybe 3-4 times when I was first learning to use it. It didn't take long to learn.
My other learning curve issue was the trigger sensitivity. I was shooting a suppressed/supersonic .308, but I was running the sensitivity on a 2. I was on the 200 yd range at my local club, and guys' rifles about 50 yards to my left were triggering the radar, but since there is a earthen berm between us - and we were shooting in completely different lanes - it obviously didn't record a shot. I ended up having to turn the sensitivity up to 4, and that seems to be my sweet spot. I've now had absolutely no issues shooting suppressed .308 and 5.56 on that setting, even with people shooting 2 benches down from me.
I did buy the airgun trigger for the possibility of my subsonic/suppressed 300 Blackout not triggering it, but after using it my gut feeling is that I'll be returning the airgun trigger after shooting the 300 Blackout next weekend.
I guess time will tell, there is only a 1 year warranty on the unit.. so that's another issue. I don't know what the MagnetoSpeed warranty is off the top of my head, but 1 year for the unit is disappointing. The reports it generates on an SD card are great.. I love them.
If your targets are all in enfilade (i.e. in line at 100, 200, 400 etc...), you wouldn't even have to worry about that.
Knowing that - I have only had failures to trigger when maybe 3-4 times when I was first learning to use it. It didn't take long to learn.
My other learning curve issue was the trigger sensitivity. I was shooting a suppressed/supersonic .308, but I was running the sensitivity on a 2. I was on the 200 yd range at my local club, and guys' rifles about 50 yards to my left were triggering the radar, but since there is a earthen berm between us - and we were shooting in completely different lanes - it obviously didn't record a shot. I ended up having to turn the sensitivity up to 4, and that seems to be my sweet spot. I've now had absolutely no issues shooting suppressed .308 and 5.56 on that setting, even with people shooting 2 benches down from me.
I did buy the airgun trigger for the possibility of my subsonic/suppressed 300 Blackout not triggering it, but after using it my gut feeling is that I'll be returning the airgun trigger after shooting the 300 Blackout next weekend.
I guess time will tell, there is only a 1 year warranty on the unit.. so that's another issue. I don't know what the MagnetoSpeed warranty is off the top of my head, but 1 year for the unit is disappointing. The reports it generates on an SD card are great.. I love them.
CBO,
What was the issue with your Magnetospeed? Which model do you have. My shooting partner has a Labradar and the other day it was giving inconsistent readings (way off) when compared the the MS V3 which were confirmed at distance.
Ive had mine for about 9 months. Its been awesome. I run it on highest sensitivity and move the unit to different positions to suit different rifles(muzzle brake v. No muzzle brake). The beam size is so tall and wide, ive never found unit aiming to be very critical. My only gripe is the 3900fps max speed, which is easy to break out of with varmint rifles.
I see guys at the range who hate theirs, but they do whacky stuff as far as unit placement.
I see guys at the range who hate theirs, but they do whacky stuff as far as unit placement.
I have both, I would go Labradar hands down. Way faster to set up. Takes time to learn how to set it up properly, I found a sick little tripod on Amazon that places it at the perfect height for prone or off a bench. You just need to know where to place the unit to get it to read.
Using a can makes it hard at times, but doable.
Cons- battery life, I take an extended battery with me and just power it by the usb cord.
Magnetospeed is great, takes forever to set up for different rifles, can move and come loose at times. I get a POI shift using it.
But works wells , sometimes AR's with certain rails make it hard to get it to work because the unit can't fit on the barrel and attaching it to the rail makes the bayonet hit the muzzle.
Get a friend and split the Labradar
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Using a can makes it hard at times, but doable.
Cons- battery life, I take an extended battery with me and just power it by the usb cord.
Magnetospeed is great, takes forever to set up for different rifles, can move and come loose at times. I get a POI shift using it.
But works wells , sometimes AR's with certain rails make it hard to get it to work because the unit can't fit on the barrel and attaching it to the rail makes the bayonet hit the muzzle.
Get a friend and split the Labradar
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
With 22lr it really struggles. Subsonic ammo needed the optional mic attached to a stick and right next to the muzzle. At indoor ranges, I couldn't get it to just trigger on my rifle. The problem with failure to lock on is that with a failed string, you need to clear it by pressing a button, which upsets the aim of the unit, which makes it more likely get misaligned and miss the next shot, rinse and repeat. Only had it out three times. With 308, it works a lot better. Still learning.
I've had mine for about 6 months and love it! I had a V3 and had planned on keeping both of them but after using the Labradar I sold the V3. I have never ran mine on anything but external batteries so I cant comment on the battery life. Everything I shoot is suppressed and it took me a little bit to find the sweet spot on placement to get consistent readings but after I found the sweet spot I havnt had a single failure to read. I am fortunate enough to live in an area that I can shoot without having to go to public range so I have no comment on its performance around other shooters
First, I am an old coot,tech dummy. I have used mine for a month now. It works great for me. I have learned tons about my reloads.Weather and light not an issue. I can use with several rifles with out going in front of firing line. No interference with a shooter sitting about 4 feet away. I hated putting up screens and fooling with them and having the whole set up stop working as lighting changed over a shooting session. Costs a bunch, but hours at the reloading bench, $$ for Lapua brass, Berger bullets, big$ glass, wth is another big chunk of change
big boys have expensive toys.
big boys have expensive toys.
Numbers are the same, you won't see better results vs the MagnetoSpeed
The Unit is Fragile ... now I consider it too fragile to both with. yesterday the wind knocked my unit over again, less than 1ft off the ground and it broke a second time. Parts inside rattling, and the blue light is blinking. The first time the wind knocked it off my car, then it fell 3ft and broke. This time it was on the tripod on the ground, and it broke. Plus my ground is dirt.
If you shoot suppressed, it's picky, if you shoot around others it will give you false readings and force you to reset it manually. The extra distance it reads is not helpful, it's just there. Eats batteries as someone else noted, external power can damage it too if you don't use the right one.
I like the unit to set it and forget it, but now I am just tired of it. A field device you cannot use in the field
The Unit is Fragile ... now I consider it too fragile to both with. yesterday the wind knocked my unit over again, less than 1ft off the ground and it broke a second time. Parts inside rattling, and the blue light is blinking. The first time the wind knocked it off my car, then it fell 3ft and broke. This time it was on the tripod on the ground, and it broke. Plus my ground is dirt.
If you shoot suppressed, it's picky, if you shoot around others it will give you false readings and force you to reset it manually. The extra distance it reads is not helpful, it's just there. Eats batteries as someone else noted, external power can damage it too if you don't use the right one.
I like the unit to set it and forget it, but now I am just tired of it. A field device you cannot use in the field
I had one for a few months and then it stopped reading. They refurbished it and same thing. They sent me a new one and the same thing. Something changed where I shoot and we never figured it out. I shoot at the same range and from the same bench consistently and something just happened. I've just kept using my MagnetoSpeed and it just plain works. I really wished the LabRadar worked out for me.
Where have you found the location compared to the muzzle for braked and not braked rifles? I've only made it out once with mine so far. It triggered great with my braked 6.5cm but had problems with the other rifle. Other than that the only problem I had was forgetting to rearm it prior to shooting another string. I'm thinking about placing it directly under the muzzle as most of my shooting is from a bench anymore do to bad neck and shoulders.
If you want to mess with it, it can be made to work well
If you just want to be able to shoot near others, suppressed, not finicky and eliminate a headache.
Get something else, not worth the $500 and all the Tylenol you'll need.
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If you just want to be able to shoot near others, suppressed, not finicky and eliminate a headache.
Get something else, not worth the $500 and all the Tylenol you'll need.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My experience is totally opposite yours. A headache is setting up a traditional chrono, which will stop working at the drop of a hat, for no reason whatsoever. Then you have to wait for a line break to fix it, only to find that it still isnt working. Man i dont miss those things!
The day I got my labradar, I took it to the back yard and shot a bunch of pellets out of a beeman spring air rifle past it. Worked like a charm.
While there certainly room for improvement, this technology is the way to go in my opinion.
That's why I use a Magnetospeed, don't have to mess with the firing line, can shoot near anyone, can shoot suppressed, can have the controller within arms length.
While I think the technology is superb, I just found it to finicky. If I shot suppressed i needed an adapter or it missed half the shots. If I shoot on a busy range, i pick up everyone else's shots. If I used the muzzle brake only, it moved off target and had errors. Just some small kinks they need to work out and it will be a fantastic machine. But for now, I'll stick with the magnetospeed.
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I've had mine over a year without any problems. It has fallen over one time in a 20 MPH wind and it still keeps on running perfect. Maybe its just me, but when you spend $500 on a chrono that is as sophisticated as labradar you should treat it with a little more care. I have over 1,000 rounds by mine, 22 LR to 300 Win mag suppressed. I had a few questions on the where to place the muzzle to get it trigger but after watching their YouTubes and talking to their tech support I never have a problem. This is without a doubt the best chrono i have ever had. Well worth the money, but learn to take care of your equipment and it will take care of you.
Spare me...
I was one of the first to get this unit, in fact months before anyone else and use it well beyond 1000 rounds, (closer to 5,000+) in fact I use it pretty well every week without fail. This is the second time it has broke, the rattling parts inside are unmistakable. The first time I was changing the batteries in the back of the SUV, the wind gust, knocked it off, and broke it. A bit higher but not much. Both falls are dirt too, no rocks, no gravel, dirt.
How would you suggest I "Take more care" it's on a tripod less than 1ft off the ground, I am behind the rifle, a gust of wind knocks it over (Certainly not the first time) and BANG! it's has parts rattling again, and the blue light blinks when you turn it on.
This unit is fragile, period !@#$@!$%
Take more care, LOL
How about I leave it home in it's padded case and call it good. My Magnetospeed is used under the same conditions and works great
As some else noted, we can drop our phones and tablets, give them to little kids who drop them all day and they don't break with parts rattling around inside.
You can drop proof electronics
Lowlight said:
A buddy of mine is an engineer. We used to discuss making a shock proof suspension system for PCs in rough use environments. As we were starting to get more serious my washing machine broke (be patient, this is going somewhere). Repair guy comes out (not really a repair guy -- more like flow chart follower and parts replacer, but that's another story) and he's got a funky looking notebook PC. I asked him about it and he said they're made to survive meathead abuse. Naturally I ask if they work. He said the crew he works with wondered too. So one of them finally threw one across the room on concrete. The computer kept working perfectly. The housing didn't crack. No rattles.
No I'm not sure how much those things cost. But the point is, is the Labradar meant to be used in a lab, or in the field? If it's the field, it may, in fact, be possible to make them durable enough to be thrown across a concrete range -- at least the computational components and housing.
Perhaps the V2 Labradar will get closer to finding the nexus between a reasonable cost the market can bear, and taking a one foot tumble off a tripod into dirt. Perhaps it doesn't have to be "meathead proof", but a little tougher than it is now?
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I look at this like any other electronic device. If it takes the right hit, it's gonna break. I'll use my iphones as an example. I've owned every one. I like making a spectacle by tossing them over my shoulder onto concrete. People freak the hell out and cringe when it hits the ground, but ive never broken one, and never cracked the screen. Yes, they are cased, but not some crazy vault-like otterbox. On the other hand, I have friends that cant go 3 weeks without breaking their phones. I'm not gentle with my labradar in the least, but it hasnt fallen over yet either, so I'll be extra careful about that. Frank, sounds like your's just took the right hit.
Could the labradar be more robust? Sure. Is it less robust than the optical chronos we've been using all these years? I dont think so. Those were the definition of finicky, and were always in danger of blowing over, and then blowing up when they hit the ground. The labradar is just such a fantastic leap in the right direction, I have a hard time faulting them.
I'm no radar tech, but it seems to me that the labradar is a fair bit bigger than it needs to be. Maybe it has to do with beam width/height dictating antenna size, but our radar units at work have antennas about the size of a soda can, and the counting unit is about the size of a TV remote. It would be cool if labradar V2 could be much much smaller. I think that would minimize the blow-overs, and just make it more conveinient to store and use.
Could the labradar be more robust? Sure. Is it less robust than the optical chronos we've been using all these years? I dont think so. Those were the definition of finicky, and were always in danger of blowing over, and then blowing up when they hit the ground. The labradar is just such a fantastic leap in the right direction, I have a hard time faulting them.
I'm no radar tech, but it seems to me that the labradar is a fair bit bigger than it needs to be. Maybe it has to do with beam width/height dictating antenna size, but our radar units at work have antennas about the size of a soda can, and the counting unit is about the size of a TV remote. It would be cool if labradar V2 could be much much smaller. I think that would minimize the blow-overs, and just make it more conveinient to store and use.
I bought the stand the company sells with Labradar. I put a weight on the base ( box of 50 loaded rounds or some ankle weights ) no problems so far. Its fairly big and shaped like a square sail so I assumed you needed a stable base to keep it from tipping over. also the muzzle brakes on some of my rifles have enough blast to knock over my coffee mug so again I figured a weighted base would be reasonable precaution. I'm still happy with mine after 5 range trips.
Like my unit as well, mostly for being able to gather velocity/ES/SD numbers while doing ladder testing without influencing the ladder as my Magnetospeed V3 does. However, the Labradar is a bit finicky as others have noted especially if someone with a brake is shooting near you... it will false trigger off their muzzle blast and with the current firmware the only way to reset the unit after each false trigger is to press the enter button manually to acknowledge the "projectile not tracked" error message. A timeout/auto reset for that warning would be nice and I'm hoping they incorporate that on a new firmware update. .22LR and air rifle use needs the optional external mic to trigger and can also be touchy to setup, I had to take the foam "gust guard" off the mic for reliable triggering with my suppressed PCP air rifle. It also eats batteries like crazy, the internal AA batteries are a joke. I always run a 10,000mah external USB battery pack which will run all day, but I worry one day I'll accidentally snag the cord and damage the USB port in the Labradar.
Also, I agree with Frank that it is fragile for the kind of environment it is used in. While mine has never tipped over or dropped, the case split from muzzle blast when doing load development on a 7 SAUM on a 32F morning. About 20 shots into the session I noticed that the had case cracked right around 2 of the bolts that hold it together. It started the day in one piece. It was positioned well away from the muzzle at the time (unit was placed right at the barrel/receiver junction about 5" from the side of the receiver and the muzzle brake didn't have rearward angled ports, only side facing ports. It still worked and gave readings with the cracked case, but I wasn't too happy about that. Labradar did repair it for free though.
That said, even with the quirks and somewhat fragile nature I find it very handy to have for load development. I don't bother dragging my Oehler out anymore.
For a Labradar "Gen 2", my suggestions would be additional durability, auto-reset of the "projectile not tracked" error when it triggers from someone else's muzzle blast, an upper end velocity of 4500+ fps for some of the varmint calibers, and use of higher capacity internal batteries like 18650 Li-on cells.
Also, I agree with Frank that it is fragile for the kind of environment it is used in. While mine has never tipped over or dropped, the case split from muzzle blast when doing load development on a 7 SAUM on a 32F morning. About 20 shots into the session I noticed that the had case cracked right around 2 of the bolts that hold it together. It started the day in one piece. It was positioned well away from the muzzle at the time (unit was placed right at the barrel/receiver junction about 5" from the side of the receiver and the muzzle brake didn't have rearward angled ports, only side facing ports. It still worked and gave readings with the cracked case, but I wasn't too happy about that. Labradar did repair it for free though.
That said, even with the quirks and somewhat fragile nature I find it very handy to have for load development. I don't bother dragging my Oehler out anymore.
For a Labradar "Gen 2", my suggestions would be additional durability, auto-reset of the "projectile not tracked" error when it triggers from someone else's muzzle blast, an upper end velocity of 4500+ fps for some of the varmint calibers, and use of higher capacity internal batteries like 18650 Li-on cells.
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Several members of the club where I shoot have purchased them and use them regularly. Only complaint they have is that it doesn't give velocities beyond 30 yards. This is apparently due to overhead baffles that are installed to keep rounds from landing in a nearby housing development or the city just beyond it. Our range is in a heavily developed urban environment and the only way it has survived is by making sure there is no way for anyone to launch, inadvertently or purposely, a round off the range. It's a nice 80 plus acre range but these baffles ( 5 rows of 6"X4'X12' thick gravel filled boxes suspended just over the line of sight to the farthest targets and extending 60 yards from the firing line) make it like a tunnel and the "radar" doesn't seem to be able to pick up bullets out to it's max range. They even mess with the light so about the only chrono's that work are either those with infrared sensors or the Magnetospeed.
In short, the Labradar seems to be really sensitive to location although they probably work just fine if you can shoot in the wide open spaces without a shooter right next to you.
In short, the Labradar seems to be really sensitive to location although they probably work just fine if you can shoot in the wide open spaces without a shooter right next to you.
Well mine went down today. The display screen no longer displays anything at all. Good chance I'll be switching back to a Magneto Speed. We'll see what the guys at LabRadar say/do to fix it. Pretty disappointed at this point.
Had a LabRadar, but it was a bit finicky. Just used my Magnetospeed for the first time last weekend. Super easy to set up and use.
I've had mine for several months. I can't speak to durability as mine has never fallen (I use the platter-like LabRadar base).
I can't speak to its behavior on cramped or crowded ranges as the two I use are pretty wide open, but I've never had issues with false triggers from shooters with braked rifles ten feet away (covered lines). I use trigger level 3 with a braked .223 and 6.5CM with the brakes a foot in front of the unit. I use trigger level 1 with an unbraked .223 with the muzzle just in front of the unit.
There is definitely a learning curve, and you definitely have to aim the thing carefully. I can see where taping or gluing a soda straw or similar in the aiming notch might be helpful, but I don't find it necessary.
It's useless with .22 without the extra-cost microphone (Seriously? Money grab. It wouldn't raise price that much to put in a resistor and high-low level switch!) I have no experience with suppressed platforms. One of my shooting buddies got the microphone setup with his; it took some experimenting but, again, once learned, it's about 100% reliable.
Finally, as others have said, don't even try to run the thing with AA batteries unless you don't mind changing them every hour. I run mine with a cast-off 10k milliamp brick donated by my son; runs the LabRadar for several sessions.
So, I'm pleased with mine. Only way I'd mess with a Magnetospeed is if I had a spigot on every rifle I own - seems pointless to have to separate velocity checks from accuracy work.
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Ran LR at the same time as the MS. Were the same or 2fps different. On occasion 3 fps.
I run mine at a range, next to muzzle brakes, and I am shooting a suppressor. If you learn how to set it up and where to place the muzzle, it works great. For a suppressor, set it at most sensitive and put the muzzle even with the back of the LR. Microphone is on the left side, in the middle. I never fail to set it off now. Running a gun with a brake, I set sensitivity low and put the LR so it is in the muzzleblast back a foot or two depending on the size of the gun.
I have no fear of it falling over. I keep it in a hard plastic case, and when I use it, I have a screw to attach it to the case. Ain't no wind blowing it over. I keep my battery pack and cables in there.
LR just released the phone app, so we should see Bluetooth connectivity. Might be buggy at first.
I rarely use my MS anymore, and always set up the LR now. So easy.
I run mine at a range, next to muzzle brakes, and I am shooting a suppressor. If you learn how to set it up and where to place the muzzle, it works great. For a suppressor, set it at most sensitive and put the muzzle even with the back of the LR. Microphone is on the left side, in the middle. I never fail to set it off now. Running a gun with a brake, I set sensitivity low and put the LR so it is in the muzzleblast back a foot or two depending on the size of the gun.
I have no fear of it falling over. I keep it in a hard plastic case, and when I use it, I have a screw to attach it to the case. Ain't no wind blowing it over. I keep my battery pack and cables in there.
LR just released the phone app, so we should see Bluetooth connectivity. Might be buggy at first.
I rarely use my MS anymore, and always set up the LR now. So easy.
The LR shows the "distance" downrange at which the projectile was "clocked", does it not? At what downrange distance are you getting a 2-3 fps "difference" from a MS? I'm asking because a radar or laser being used to check "velocity" has to hit the target object at least twice to get a "differential speed" from its position change between the two "hits". Its pulses of radar/laser energy have to come at set intervals and that frequency has to be wide enough that the outgoing energy pulses don't interfere with the incoming "echoes" from previous pulses. Even if a microphone "triggers" the device it still has to "hit" the target object at least twice to measure its speed. I can't picture a scenario where an LR is able to "clock" a projectile within the length of an MS and the distance between its "sensors". If an LR and MS are producing "identical" results one or the other or both must be "off".
Is the trigger start/stopping the radar going out, or just that it is measuring? I thought it was already sending out radar waves and the trigger was just to tell it to look at the data, which could be stored in memory and referenced after the triggering is sensed. The radar isn't looking at set distances, it is just reporting at those distances- is how I interpreted what is going on.
Speed of light versus the speed of sound? I'm guessing the radar could be getting pings something like every mm of flight or so. It is continious wave doppler, so it isn't measuring the distances and computing, it is looking at doppler shift.
All instruments produce data which then has to be turned into information according to some calibration. If the two methods are calibrated correctly, they should agree with in some variance.
On a more serious note, it allows you to view a shot series "offline" when not connected to the LR, start a new series, and modify settings from your Android. As was previously mentioned, bummer that you can't "enter" when a projectile acquisition error occurs.
Just got my LabRadar.
Haven't been able to take it out yet, but the primary 'check mark'/confirm button sticks inside the housing. Anyone else have this/will it go away with time? Rest of unit seems to work short of taking it to the range, but concerned on a $500+ chrono that this will remain with > 50% of button presses sticking.
Haven't been able to take it out yet, but the primary 'check mark'/confirm button sticks inside the housing. Anyone else have this/will it go away with time? Rest of unit seems to work short of taking it to the range, but concerned on a $500+ chrono that this will remain with > 50% of button presses sticking.
It will be nice when they let you adjust to FPS from MS, also changing projectile weights would be nice to do on the App when shooting different rifles on testing outings... They advertise being able to change settings.... Well - I say, not really in my experience with the app.
I'm guessing the apple app should be similar to the android app. You have to swipe from the left for the menu. You'll then see settings to change from MPS to FPS.
Had a Magneto V3, sold it to fund a radar. Sold the Radar after one month and now have the V3 again. I’m very picky about my data, and although set up “correctly” I just never had confidence with the radar.
The speeds registered by a Doppler radar are based off Doppler shift so the measurement is "instant" for all practical purposes. @FromMyColdDeadHand is correct that it is "continuously measuring" in the sense that any signal return has a shift which can derive speed. The data sampling rate is a bit different and denotes how quickly the system records the signal (1000 times per second or 10,000 times per second etc). From each interval, the distance traveled can be calculated. Most systems optical systems work in the reverse: find time between two points and then use Distance/Time to calculate velocity (and I think this includes Magneto Speed but I'm not certain about this- they likely measure the time between magnetic pulses to calculate velocity). This is why they are very sensitive to being setup "parallel" to bullet travel to show correct speed.
A radar that uses sound as trigger is probably using the sound as a rough Zero Time marker to both start the analysis of signal and create a T0 reference mark to reverse back to muzzle velocity. The radar will be firing signal any time the light is orange but will not be looking for any results until the "sound" event to limit false triggers (leaves blowing, other shooters, birds etc)
Radio wave spectrum is tuned to for the specific application. Typically higher frequency's allow better "resolution" of high speed events BUT they are also weaker than a longer frequency so they need to be very focused. In a separate application, a product that work with for tracking golf balls, uses both a ~10Ghz and 24.5Ghz frequency. We can sample data over 20,000 times per second but that's just because we don't have a need to sample higher for our application. If the LabRadar samples at a similar rate, it would see data points for velocity ~6.5 times in each foot of travel if bullet travelled a continuous 3000fps. Because it's slowing/ decelerating, you will get more samples as it travels slower, but at a certain point, precision of the Doppler shift based on signal strength will become lower, thus limited tracking distance for a given radar power output.
The biggest unknown about LAbRadar for me is exactly how they are tracking sound as T0. Position of the radar relative to the muzzle and variations in speed of sound, plus variation in time entering the radar field should affect the MV calculation. Hopefully these are accounted for but...?
I may run some tests to see if I see a difference in SD/ES in "Sound Trigger" mode vs "Doppler trigger" mode. I would trust the Doppler data over time more than a reverse calculated MV based on sound. This is just my gut feeling based on how accoustic triggers work vs pure Doppler shift.
My first thought was that the 'offset' that you enter might be used to help it know- but that wouldn't be true for the use of the mic. The Doppler data is just giving speed, right? It doesn't really give distance directly? It can calculate change in distance when it get some speed and time measurements, but it doesn't know the actual distance, right? So you'd get the trigger event, it would start collecting speed data. So if you are getting some speed data and see some kind of change in speed over time, you fit that to a function that extrapolates back to T0 and a D0. If the trigger event falls with in some window, the system reads it as a valid data set.
Yes Doppler is giving "pure" velocity - via Doppler calculations - but the offset could be utilized 1) as a correction for the angle of the projectile through the radar field, and/or 2) reference for accoustic time delay (time for sound to reach radar).
I'm nearly certain the mic is used as a data trigger event, not to start tracking but to mark an event should occur within XX time after sound trigger just as you say. My concern is more about the method being used to reverse back to muzzle velocity.
If the V0 is calculated using regression, using a polynomial equivalent to match the curve, it should be very accurate BUT the T0 point would have to be extremely precise (< +-.0001 seconds) to be sure the velocities are not over/underreported at muzzle. If more linear model is used, the velocities could be very precise but not necessarily accurate for V0.
I have a sneaky suspicion that v1 measurements will be more consistent than V0 (like the poster in another thread that found SD at V0 to be higher than at V1, V2 and further. I think this would be good to know when evaluation of SD is such a critical aspect of tuning a load. Since we still have to true our data/BC, the our solvers may not need the correct value but just very close value to then tune BC at longer ranges.
Would be very cool to see how the LR compares to the $100k Doppler systems like at AB, Lapua, Hornady, etc.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...onal-weibel-doppler-radar-benchmark-test/amp/
Firearm Blog did a test with the Labradar and a commercial Doppler radar.
Firearm Blog did a test with the Labradar and a commercial Doppler radar.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2018/06/chrono-camparison-test-labradar-magnetospeed-oehler-35p/
here's another article/test LR vs MS-V3 vs Oehler 35P
here's another article/test LR vs MS-V3 vs Oehler 35P
That's a pretty good test. I didn't seem like they tested anything other than the .338 though. The larger bullet will have a very large surface area relatively. It's too bad they didn't test smaller calibers.
Good post!
That is a good take away.
That is pretty good take away. It would be interesting to see how a 5.56/6mm bullet accuracy might be different for the smaller bullets with the Labradar. I wonder if you could aim the Labradar better, could you tighten up the beam and get better/further data from the unit?
I run my 223 with the Radar and have no issues picking it up. I have ran the radar and magneto at the same time and usually have around a 1-2 fps difference.
