LaRue Siete - In Hand First Impressions

[RedBreast21]

I picked up my Siete today and will offer my thoughts below. For background, my other centerfire bolt guns include AI's (AXSA and an AX50ELR), A couple of Sako TRGs, a DT SRS-A1 and a Tikka T3.

What I like:
1) It looks good. Better in person.
2) The barrels are NOT proprietary. As you can tell, I'm a big fan of switch barrel bolt guns, and I like to have options.
3) The Cheek Riser is good! I was concerned about it. It looks a little weird, but it's solid. I'll be adding a Wiebad mini stock pad to it like I have to the AIs.
4) The tools and kit are great.
5) It ships in separate boxes and the stock ships separately from the rifle. Depending on what ultimately happens with FATF's most recent rule, this may or may not be important. I was sure to put a pistol brace on it initially so it was firstly a pistol and intended to be fired as such before it was ever a rifle.
6) The folding mechanism is well done and looks to be bombproof (see #4 below, though).
7) The build quality is overall good.

What I don't like:

1) The Trigger Guard. Yes, this surprised me, too. There's not enough vertical room between the bottom of the trigger and the trigger guard below it. My natural finger placement causes me to drag along the trigger guard. As we know, any unnecessary input onto the rifle is bad input.
2) The "tinniness" of the trigger when it breaks. This is hard to describe - and probably doesn't ultimately matter - but since there's not "insulation" in this rifle, the break of the trigger (dry firing) makes the whole rifle make a noise - somewhere between a "cling" and a "clang".
3) Consider the source (I'm a trigger snob and dislike single stage triggers). I'll definitely be changing out this trigger.
4) The folder folds the "wrong" way. I'm guessing he couldn't do the "shortcut" (but good) stock solution and make it fold into the bolt, which is why it folds that way. But my AIs and the MRAD before them folded "to the right". Maybe I'll name this rifle Turtle McConnell since it folds to the Left (lol, I kill me).
5) The bolt's smoothness is underwhelming. It's on par with my Tikka.

What surprised me a little:

1) The Barrel profiles are light!!! I didn't put a mic on them yet, but I'd guess they're 1/3 again smaller (so 2/3 as much as) my AI barrels. More in line with an AR barrel than a bolt gun barrel.

I hope to get out this week with some hand loads and report back as to accuracy and velocity. FWIW, I chose the (20" - no other option) .308 barrel as my secondary.

ETA: I'm going to get feelers from some barrel smiths about having an 8.6BLK barrel made.

 

[mi650]

I'll reserve judgement until I get a chance to see one in person, maybe get to shoot one.

This ended up being a lot different than what was 1st announced. I was all set to order back then.

 

[Jack's Dad]

Looking for the barf emoji

 

[Defender3]

Thanks for the thoughts. I saw and handled one a couple years back at the Leander mothership and while the concept of a lightweight, backpack styled rifle (10lbs) versus an old school wood and steel gun were evolving.

Surprised to hear of the bolt and trigger. When I fingered one, the action was like butter. Also, and I'm assuming the trigger is an MBT, that it's breaking the way your experiencing.

 

[Wile_Coyote]

The observation of the trigger is interesting. LaRue must’ve swung wildly to the other side. The MBT is chunky and clunky as far a AR triggers go. Hearing (reading) this one is tinny is interesting.

Thanks for the info and observations.

 

[d13s3l]

thought i read that trigger was a Timney


&
OP
thanks for your update

 

[hlee]

Putting the brace on the firearm first is unnecessary. The firearm is whatever it is listed as on the 4473. If it is listed as a “rifle,” it is a rifle. If it is listed as a “pistol,“ it is a pistol. If “receiver,” then receiver. This was settled 3 decades ago with the TC contender.

 

[RedBreast21]

Thanks for the thoughts. I saw and handled one a couple years back at the Leander mothership and while the concept of a lightweight, backpack styled rifle (10lbs) versus an old school wood and steel gun were evolving.

Surprised to hear of the bolt and trigger. When I fingered one, the action was like butter. Also, and I'm assuming the trigger is an MBT, that it's breaking the way your experiencing.

It's a Timney trigger. MBTs are AR triggers only.

 

[RedBreast21]

Putting the brace on the firearm first is unnecessary. The firearm is whatever it is listed as on the 4473. If it is listed as a “rifle,” it is a rifle. If it is listed as a “pistol,“ it is a pistol. If “receiver,” then receiver. This was settled 3 decades ago with the TC contender.

That's incorrect. I'll note that that

The observation of the trigger is interesting. LaRue must’ve swung wildly to the other side. The MBT is chunky and clunky as far a AR triggers go. Hearing (reading) this one is tinny is interesting.

Thanks for the info and observations.

The trigger is a Single Stage Timney. When I said it was "tinny" I meant the noise reverberating through the rifle and handguard. I should have been more clear - it's not the feeling it's the noise . . . which is why I said it probably doesn't matter since it won't be audible over the round going off.

Either way, I'll be exploring two stage options.

 

[powdahound76]

That needs a sweet scope.

Might I suggest one of these:

 

[SilentStalkr]

This looks like a 100% rip off of the Tikka Tac rifles to me. Also interesting that you say the bolt smoothness is underwhelming like your Tikkas. My tikka bolts are smooth as butter.

 

[RedBreast21]

This looks like a 100% rip off of the Tikka Tac rifles to me. Also interesting that you say the bolt smoothness is underwhelming like your Tikkas. My tikka bolts are smooth as butter.

I'm comparing to two AIs (AXSA and AX50ELR), and two Sako TRGs, and then others' Defiance, etc actions that I've shot.

 

[RedBreast21]

That needs a sweet scope.

Might I suggest one of these:

View attachment 8052757

Cool, I have stalkers.

 

[RedBreast21]

Reloading (and trigger) Update:

I started to reload for the rifle over the weekend - had some interesting things occur. I've hand loaded tens of thousands of rounds, and thousands of precision rounds. Measurements were done with a Forster Datum Dial and Mitutoyo Digital Caliper.

I tested the distance to the lands with multiple cases (fired and unfired both) and different (140gr Berger Hybrid) bullets. The oddly consistent measurement was 2.2660". That's quite a bit longer than what I load for my AIAX, which I load to 2.2200.

I checked the first round I loaded to 2.2660 in the AICS Magazine, and it wasn't even close to fitting, so I grabbed a dummy round and worked my way down until I was able to get the round to fit, which was . . . 2.2200. I knocked it down to 2.2185 because 2.2200 was very nearly basically touching the front side of the magazine. So, we're looking at over 50 thou jump . . . That's more than I typically start out with, but everyone has their own preferred way of doing things. We'll see how it goes.

I also checked Trigger pull weight. It's 3.5lbs (3lbs 8 oz). Somehow it still feels more and I still am not a fan of it. - Update: This rifle WILL NOT ACCEPT MOST DROP IN REMINGTON 700 TRIGGERS WITHOUT SOME ISSUES. IT WILL NOT ACCEPT A BIX N ANDY; IT WILL NOT ACCEPT TRIGGER TECHS. IT WILL ACCEPT SOME TIMNEYS, BUT THE SAFETY MAY NOT WORK WITH THOSE TRIGGERS. The trigger is adjustable for pull weight, but the rifle has to be completely disassembled (except for the buffer tube/extension) in order to change it.

Oh, and the grip is going to be replaced as well. Looking for another Sierra Precision Grip, but it looks like they're either discontinued or out of stock everywhere.

 

[Triple D]

That's incorrect. I'll note that that

How does adding a brace to a 20” rifle change anything? It’s still a rifle, just with an even goofier stock.

It’s sold as a rifle. This isn’t the previous version, that was never fully released that was sold as a pistol.

I doubt anyone was thinking that a threaded barrel was proprietary, but does it take known prefits? That’s what ppl would be concerned with. Why get a LaRue barrel when there are many others that are far better.

 

[DJL2]

A 3.5 lb trigger on a "precision" bolt gun... gross. That might be about right for a hard use pistol though ;-).

I've run into a similar issue loading 6.5 CM in the past. However, it's not just mag length - I have this idea in my head that you actually some part of the bullet's shank in the damn neck of the case for concentricity and consistency. I can remember hitting the lands with like 1/10th inch of full diameter shank in the case neck and thinking "well, shit, hope it likes this 120 thou jump it's gonna take." The mag length would have been a secondary issue for me.

 

[RedBreast21]

I doubt anyone was thinking that a threaded barrel was proprietary, but does it take known prefits? That’s what ppl would be concerned with. Why get a LaRue barrel when there are many others that are far better.

There are a whole lot of (IMHO, very confused) people who think that a Larue Rifle should have a Larue Barrel, and don't trust any other barrel manufacturer. Same goes for the PredatOBR.

The only other threaded barrel I had to compare the LaRue barrels to was the AI barrel (Desert Tech and MRAD having proprietary extensions, of course). I'm not a Model 70 barrel expert (actually, a novice), but here's what the extension looks like up close.

 

[RedBreast21]

There are a whole lot of (IMHO, very confused) people who think that a Larue Rifle should have a Larue Barrel, and don't trust any other barrel manufacturer. Same goes for the PredatOBR.

The only other threaded barrel I had to compare the LaRue barrels to was the AI barrel (Desert Tech and MRAD having proprietary extensions, of course). I'm not a Model 70 barrel expert (actually, a novice), but here's what the extension looks like up close.

Video update on disassembly of the gun:

Spoke with Larue about the trigger (actually a couple of times). The end result is that unless you want to compromise the safety (as shown in the video), you're stuck with the "acceptable but not good" factory trigger. I don't like single stage, but I hated the trigger placement even more.

As far as a shooting update: It does a good job! I shot a fairly hurried 3x5 shot series of groups. Rifle was configured as shown in the video (Calvin elite, Elite Iron Bipod) and with an ATACR 5-25. TBAC Ultra 9 6.5 Silencer. I was getting a CRAP ton of mirage off the can . . . was super strange for the temps, but it was a significant distraction. Because I was a little pressed for time, I shot through the mirage. I ended up with the below (again 5-shot groups) averaging .561.

In terms of more BS excuses, I also switched batches of bullets (140 Berger Hybrids) in the middle of the second group (the lower left one), which *may* account for the vertical dispersion. In the third group, shots 2, 3, and 4, all went through that same hole, which would have been a 0.051" group. That's not a typo. I'm looking forward to getting it out again to see if I can do any better.

Oh, and my break in procedure was as follows: shot it to fire-form brass. Didn't clean it. Reloaded the brass. Shot it again. In other words, there was no break in procedure, because barrel break ins are nothing more than unnecessarily wearing out your barrel.

So, my conclusion - and I'm sure Mark would hate this, but I think this is a really solid first effort. With a couple of changes and refinements - trigger, grip, fixing the stock so it folds the other direction and over the bolt. It shoots well enough, and the form factor is really what I paid for anyway.

It wouldn't take much to make this a hell of a rifle. As it sits now, it has some problems. I'd be hard pressed to recommend it over a Tikka Tac-A1 (unless someone wanted the switch-barrel capability), but if they fixed the trigger, stock and grip, I'd recommend it 10/10 times over the Tikka independent of the barrel-switching capability.

Oh, and as a by-the-by - I also had my PredatOBR out there (equipped with both my 16" .308 and 22" .260 barrels). Both of those barrels are set up for the (disappointing and heavy, but low blowback) Tranquilo silencer. I was curious what would happen if I took the ATACR off the Siete and put it on the PredatOBR. The results were interesting:

16" .308: adjust up 0.6 Mils, and right 0.1
22" .260: adjust up 1.6 Mils, and back to 0.0.

I don't know if that actually means anything (given my understanding of what I don't understand about barrel harmonics), but it seems to suggest that Larue has built two tremendously straight rifles (with three straight barrels) with the up/down being affected by the boat anchor of a silencer at the end of the progressively longer PredatOBR barrels.

 

[SilentStalkr]

I'm comparing to two AIs (AXSA and AX50ELR), and two Sako TRGs, and then others' Defiance, etc actions that I've shot.

Interesting. My Tikka is just as smooth as either of my TRGs or AIs. With that said, my FILs Tikka Tac A1 is not near as smooth as anything else I have. It’s still smooth but not like the others.

 

[RayDBonz]

Anyone know how LaRue rifles his barrels?
Cut-rifled? Button-rifled? Something else?
Seems to be a big secret or something.

 

[RedBreast21]

This looks like a 100% rip off of the Tikka Tac rifles to me.

I mean, they kinda look similar, have an aluminum "lower receiver" for the barreled action, have a folding stock (to the left) and an MLOK handguard. But that's the extent of it, really. Different actions, COMPLETELY different disassemblies, the Tikka isn't a quick change, etc. etc.

But I think you *may* have stumbled on something that I'll have to try. It looks like the Tikka stock might work as a replacement for the Larue modified R.A.T. I'll have to borrow one from a friend and check it out.

Interesting. My Tikka is just as smooth as either of my TRGs or AIs. With that said, my FILs Tikka Tac A1 is not near as smooth as anything else I have. It’s still smooth but not the others.

I don't know how many Tikkas I've fired, but it's been more than a few (30? 40?). I have just the one (a CTR). There are varying degrees of smoothness. On the scale of things, neither of my AIs or TRGs are really that smooth (compared to, say some of the custom Defiances, etc. I've shot), but they lock up with absolute authority, and I wouldn't trade the TRGs or the AIs for those custom rigs at all. Those are my preferences, everyone else's may vary.

 

[Defender3]

Anyone know how LaRue rifles his barrels?
Cut-rifled? Button-rifled? Something else?
Seems to be a big secret or something.

 

[SilentStalkr]

Anyone know how LaRue rifles his barrels?
Cut-rifled? Button-rifled? Something else?
Seems to be a big secret or something.

Last I knew Larue didn’t make their own barrels. But I’ve been out of the game a minute.

 

[Defender3]

Last I knew Larue didn’t make their own barrels. But I’ve been out of the game a minute.

IIRC, they've been making them since 2013ish. Mark used to post about the process, including when he bought a cryo chamber to relieve any induced stress.

 

[Precision Underground]

 

[RedBreast21]

Step 1) Wait for dusk.
Step 2) Insert 14.5" P&W 8.6BLK that should just clear then end of the hand guard.
Step 3) Affix TBAC 338 can
Step 4) Clip on PVS30 or thermal of choice.
Step 5) Whatever it is happens here no one will either hear or see it.
Step 6) attach your Larue Barrels for shooting steel with your buddies during the day.

Just one idea.

 

[SilentStalkr]

IIRC, they've been making them since 2013ish. Mark used to post about the process, including when he bought a cryo chamber to relieve any induced stress.

But are they tho or is someone else making them for them and they are just filming their process and claiming it as their own voodoo magic barrels when in fact they could be no different than FN or DD? I have no idea these days. I just know that kind of stuff happens more often than not. They may very well make their own...

 

[RedBreast21]

But are they tho or is someone else making them for them and they are just filming their process and claiming it as their own voodoo magic barrels when in fact they could be no different than FN or DD? I have no idea these days. I just know that kind of stuff happens more often than not. They may very well make their own...

They either make their own or are lying (and are very good and consistent at it). Mark has said for years and years that they've made their own, I've had multiple conversations with employees there that have consistently referred to the barrel-making machines/area. Plus, if they were having someone else make them, they'd be able to offer a lot more of a selection (which, at the end of the day, isn't very broad).

Also, in the multiple videos of the Siete from Shot Show, they consistently say "we make everything in this rifle in house except the trigger...."

 

[RayDBonz]

Way back when, LaRue rifles had barrels from Lothar-Walther.
Now, I believe he makes his own. The video above suggests that. Just doesn't show how they are rifled.

 

[Defender3]

Way back when, LaRue rifles had barrels from Lothar-Walther.
Now, I believe he makes his own. The video above suggests that. Just doesn't show how they are rifled.

I think they're button rifled, hence the cryo chamber.

 

[TheOE800]

Larue produces button-rifled barrels.

 

[Triple D]

Step 1) Wait for dusk.
Step 2) Insert 14.5" P&W 8.6BLK that should just clear then end of the hand guard.
Step 3) Affix TBAC 338 can
Step 4) Clip on PVS30 or thermal of choice.
Step 5) Whatever it is happens here no one will either hear or see it.
Step 6) attach your Larue Barrels for shooting steel with your buddies during the day.

Just one idea.

Maybe I’m the minority, but this just seems like some tacticool fantasy, one I think Mark pushed on Instagram.

I own several quick change bolt guns, and while they could, I’ve never once thought about doing something like this.

How quick can it convert to a 223 and then to a 300wsm?

It’s modular, just not where most would want it.

 

[Defender3]

I

Maybe I’m the minority, but this just seems like some tacticool fantasy, one I think Mark pushed on Instagram.

I own several quick change bolt guns, and while they could, I’ve never once thought about doing something like this.

How quick can it convert to a 223 and then to a 300wsm?

It’s modular, just not where most would want it.

I believe Mark's original intent was to make a backpack-like hunting rifle, hence the caliber choices. Not commenting on anything other than original intent.

 

[Haney]

But are they tho or is someone else making them for them and they are just filming their process and claiming it as their own voodoo magic barrels when in fact they could be no different than FN or DD? I have no idea these days. I just know that kind of stuff happens more often than not. They may very well make their own...

So in other words , you just pulled that bullshit out your ass to say...I don't have a clue . That's impressive .

 

[RedBreast21]

Maybe I’m the minority, but this just seems like some tacticool fantasy, one I think Mark pushed on Instagram.

I own several quick change bolt guns, and while they could, I’ve never once thought about doing something like this.

How quick can it convert to a 223 and then to a 300wsm?

It’s modular, just not where most would want it.

Well, I was thinking of offing coyotes in a neighborhood setting (where people would otherwise be VERY upset if they heard a gun report after dark. So far, I've just been limited to armadillos and possums - more the former than the latter). If your mind went to "tacticool fantasy" then I think that most people would conclude that you're projecting . . . not that I have any objections to such projection.

 

[SilentStalkr]

So in other words , you just pulled that bullshit out your ass to say...I don't have a clue . That's impressive .

No. I used to be in the biz and back in the day Larue did not make their own barrels. So I simply stated that it’s possible they still do not and I followed that up with the statement that I don’t really know. Even if Mark came here himself and says so, do we still really know? I mean short of an interview with him outside Larue then him stating things about their process and a video of them walking in the door and taking us to the machines to demonstrate then we will never really know. I’ve never seen a video of it. I’ve never been to their facility and been given a tour. Have you? You can take their word for it as many do, but I’ve been burned like that in the past. Your mileage may vary. It’s no industry secret that many people make things for others and someone just slaps their logo on crap and markets it as their own. This is not anything that only happens in the Gun industry either. It’s not really that uncommon. Marketing is a powerful thing. If they do truly make their own barrels, then more power to them.

 

[Triple D]

If your mind went to "tacticool fantasy" then I think that most people would conclude that you're projecting . . . not that I have any objections to such projection.

I should hope not…it was your idea after all.

No projection here. Again, I’ve got several switch-barrel setups. The practicality of swapping barrels out for a single event just isn’t there for me, or any of the ppl I shoot with.

It’s good marketing, but it’s not nearly as useful in daily events, especially if you have multiple rifles.

 

[RedBreast21]

I should hope not…it was your idea after all.

No projection here. Again, I’ve got several switch-barrel setups. The practicality of swapping barrels out for a single event just isn’t there for me, or any of the ppl I shoot with.

It’s good marketing, but it’s not nearly as useful in daily events, especially if you have multiple rifles.

I would agree it's better to have two rifles than two barrels for competition. I love my switch-barrel rifles, and the *actual* reasons for switching barrels varies.

1) For my AIAX (short action), I shoot almost all of the time with a .308 barrel . . . it makes wind calls more challenging, better for practicing overall, and the barrel life longer. When I switch to my 6.5CM or my 6mm Wildcat, it's like having an easy button.

2) For my DT SRS, the .308 setup is perfectly fine to shoot, but, I mean, it's a rifle with weird ergonomics and isn't particularly "smooth". BUT, BUT, there's not much that's more fun that pulling out a bullpup with 18" .338LM Barrel (with a can), and hit with authority at 1250 yards (which is the longest target of my range). It's more for fun than anything else.

Others I've spoken with have this reason in common: half the fun of having a switch barrel gun is switching the gun into what ends up being a completely different rifle.

 

[Defender3]

No. I used to be in the biz and back in the day Larue did not make their own barrels. So I simply stated that it’s possible they still do not and I followed that up with the statement that I don’t really know. Even if Mark came here himself and says so, do we still really know? I mean short of an interview with him outside Larue then him stating things about their process and a video of them walking in the door and taking us to the machines to demonstrate then we will never really know. I’ve never seen a video of it. I’ve never been to their facility and been given a tour. Have you? You can take their word for it as many do, but I’ve been burned like that in the past. Your mileage may vary. It’s no industry secret that many people make things for others and someone just slaps their logo on crap and markets it as their own. This is not anything that only happens in the Gun industry either. It’s not really that uncommon. Marketing is a powerful thing. If they do truly make their own barrels, then more power to them.

I've toured the mothership, Mark makes his own barrels.