LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

[Jhnmdahl]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

Sinister makes a good point - it wasn't all that long ago a PSG-1 was worth its ridiculous cost because semiautos that were accurate were rare. Now, an AR15 or AR10 can shoot better than most shooters, but the old stuff and new inaccurate guns are still out there.

Some sort of qualification specs may be a good idea for that reason alone...

 

[Phylodog]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captrichardson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
For those of you who choose to live in the dark ages, or prefer to stick your head in the sand, knock yourself out!

For those of you who would like to pay attention to the "Clues" provided, go for it!

Me, I am heading towards the light and not looking back!

Sorry for my less than positive response, but this has turned into a royal “Cluster #@!$”.

Best of Luck,
M Richardson </div></div>

You have yet to point out why police agencies on limited budgets <span style="font-size: 20pt">NEED</span> a fucking gas gun. There are tens of thousands of LE snipers, marksmen or whatever you want to call us who get the job done just fine with a bolt rifle.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captrichardson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[
Correct, shooting fundamentals are relative, a manual that recommends equipment and corresponding techniques from over 30 years ago, not real relative</div></div>

Go back and read the USAMU Sniper guide, excluding rifles, scopes, etc, take the techniques mentioned in the guide and show me one part that is not relative today.

Stay away from the military aspect, dealing with only with LE sniping, you want find anything in the guide that isn't relative today.

The guide wasn't met for SWAT and such para military outfits, but for the normal police department where the LE Sniper is so as secondary duty.

The guide does not go into the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship, the AMU hsa other material tht is excellent in that department.

 

[1time]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

Maybe it is the way our department deploys our snipers but I don't see the correlation between a sniper set up on a barricade scene and a competition that is geared towards multiple target, at extreme range variations.

For military snipers, those competitions hold a lot more water when considering gear. If snipers are deployed differently in you department the same may hold true.

 

[105amatt]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 105amatt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Give George at GA Precision a call, he is your man for this. </div></div>

Hey man, sorry I haven't replied. Check out GA Precision's website for some contact info, also George is 10XRifle on here.

 

[lw8]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

In LE, suspects come in groups...rarely alone. SWAT is the last line...they don't get to call in backup as they are they backup. As such, they need to be able to deal with multiple threats in real time.

Post the question in the LE section and you will get better info.

 

[captrichardson]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phylodog</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You have yet to point out why police agencies on limited budgets <span style="font-size: 20pt">NEED</span> a fucking gas gun. There are tens of thousands of LE snipers, marksmen or whatever you want to call us who get the job done just fine with a bolt rifle.</div></div>

Who said this thread was about Depts on a limited budget needing justification for a gas gun? I SURE AS HELL DIDN'T!

Maybe you want to go back and read where I said we just added our <span style="font-weight: bold">FIRST</span> gas gun, didn't say that we were pitching our entire bolt gun fleet and replacing everything with a gas gun. Don't recall saying everyone else should pitch theirs either, maybe you can point out where I did?

I provided "clues", also known as facts, as to why a gas gun is qualified to operate as a LE Sniper platform. I did that because certain individuals made claims to the contrary.

Thanks just the same!

 

[Graham]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captrichardson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let’s see, this started out as basically a request for a Gas Gun Bid Spec, which has now turned into the ubiquitous Bolt Gun vs Gas Gun debate, which then turned into a Legal Opinion, Shooting Fundamental, Training, Deployment Doctrine, and Cost vs Benefit debacle.</div></div>It's called Thread drift. It happens.
The Moderator's bathroom is down the hall.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captrichardson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe you can tell the folks at LaRue or LMT or a few other companies that their products are not up to snuff.</div></div>There's no need: It's already been done. I never said their products aren't 'up to snuff', whatever that means, although some of the products clearly have significant issues. What I posted is that, "as of this writing, the .308 semi AR platform has not yet been perfected in either its design or its manufacture." They already know that. What Dave said, about some being serviceable for war and others not, is true. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captrichardson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Or maybe you can tell one of the hundreds of competitors running a gas gun and winning matches that they are wasting their time and effort.</div></div>I never said that development of a platform, which is what they are doing, is a waste of their time and effort. I'm not sure where you got that from.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captrichardson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will make sure that when I head down to the 2012 Int Sniper Comp at Ft Benning that I tell anyone who shows up with a gas gun that they are wasting their time on a QUOTE “platform that has not yet been perfected in either its design or its manufacture”. Are you freaking kidding me!</div></div>Your choice, but you may not want to make an ass of yourself in that company.

I disagree with your assessment that this Thread has become a cluster fuck. There is good advice here, and an interesting discussion with many people whose opinion I respect including Pete, Cory, Kraig, Terry, Hugh and Dave. What has happened is that your assertions got criticized, tested and questioned by your peers. You chose to react with counter-accusations that were not factual and name-dropping instead of explanations.

 

[captrichardson]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

For eveyone who thinks that a LE Sniper is only about taking out a lone gunman with a single shot, you might want to consider:
- Beslan School Massacre, 32 attackers armed with military weapons and explosives, approx 400 hostages killed.
- Mumbai Terror Attacks, 10 attackers armed with military weapons and explosives, over 150 civilians killed.
- Columbine, Virginia Tech, University of Texas School Shootings, what if any of these included another 2 or 3 more well armed shooters and ended with active shootout?
- Waco Branch Davidian Incident, large numbers of heavily armed individuals in a fortified position.
- North Hollywood Bank Robbery Shootout, great when the PD has to empty the shelves of local gun stores to have adequate firepower to address the suspects.

I can go on, whether it is international or domestic terrorism or acts of violence, especially post 9-11, we don't live in the same world.

If you live in a one stop light town and are not worried about any of the above good for you.

If you are like me and cover schools, shopping malls, govt offices, int airport, etc, then the issues above are a potential reality like it or not.

Not to mention on any given day, it is nothing for many Police Depts to encounter anywhere from 3-8 suspects on a high risk warrant, who can be armed with anything from a pistol to an assault rifle. Not to mentiona what is going on along the south borders with the drug cartels, or what is going on in the major cities with the gangs.

It is not my place to tell any agency what they need.

However if you don't think that an LE agency can have the justification for a gas gun a as sniper rifle, or that a gas gun is not capable of filling that role, then per everything here you may be missing a few clues or facts.

If your bolt gun is getting it done for you, then great continue the good fight as you see fit.

Best of Luck,
M Richardson

 

[Graham]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captrichardson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For eveyone who thinks that a LE Sniper is only about taking out a lone gunman with a single shot...</div></div>You're changing the subject. But again, it's not about the gun.

 

[captrichardson]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You chose to react with counter-accusations that were not factual and name-dropping instead of explanations. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're changing the subject. But again, it's not about the gun. </div></div>

I can see where you get your moniker "General Nuisance".

Enjoy the world you live in! I will just stick to mine!
M Richardson

 

[Graham]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captrichardson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can see where you get your moniker "General Nuisance".</div></div>It's not mine. They give them out for free here.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captrichardson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Enjoy the world you live in! I will just stick to mine!
M Richardson </div></div>That's the Rub: You are not sticking to your world, you have chosen to be here. Would you care to substantively answer any one question directed your way by any of us, without changing the subject or posting generalities?

 

[264Charlie]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dutch1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have a contact for him Sir???

Dutch </div></div>

Defiantly give George a call. He will be back in the office on Monday. He is currently hunting and will be training with the team over the weekend.

The GAP10 or a custom from GA could both fit the bill.

 

[Phylodog]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captrichardson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[
Who said this thread was about Depts on a limited budget needing justification for a gas gun? I SURE AS HELL DIDN'T!

</div></div>

All of your posts indicate that gas guns are the way to go rather than bolt guns. You point this out by stating that the "clues" are out there and indicate that ignoring them will bring some sort of peril.

All agencies are on limited budgets. I've never seen or heard of one that isn't. Some have more money to spend than others, some willingly spend more money on their teams than others but none of them have unliminted budgets. As Sinister mentioned, a gas gun requires more training and skill to master than a bolt gun, that equals time and money. Typically something agencies don't have in abundance.

My commander could call me today and tell me that I have $50,000 to spend on my team and I buying gas guns wouldn't be anywhere near the top of my list. They will work bu they are not a need in the LE role.

 

[Hogstooth]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

You can keep the bolt guns they are good, but to think that you are going to take a head shot on a moving target under stress is silly no matter what platform you are using. I think there have been unrealistic training practices implemented over the years when it comes to LE Sniper training. Do I think head shots are possible? Yes, but in this day in age I think the situations are becoming far and few for that type of situation to arise, and very seldom do people stand still.

If you think that you are going to shoot a guy center mass and he is instantly going to die, you are also mistaken. I am sure that it happens, but you cannot assume that it is going to happen in every situation under stress.

LE Snipers need to train to take multiple center mass shots, or just like you would do with a handgun, practice shooting various body parts to incapacitae your suspect after center mass has failed to stop your threat.

A semi auto with 3/4MOA or better accuracy will work just fine for that, and you don't have to spend an arm and a leg to get one, if you have the budget then by all means spend the money.

I also recommend GAP as a great builder, have seen a few of his GAP10s shoot, and are easy sub MOA rifles. I am sure that if you were to get the ARs any reasonable Dept would implement a training program to make their Officers profficent.

Good luck!!

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captrichardson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Who said this thread was about Depts on a limited budget needing justification for a gas gun? I SURE AS HELL DIDN'T! </div></div>

I think this may indicate there is a budget consideration:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dutch1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> A bid has to go out for pricing etc. </div></div>

Any public purchasing process I've ever been involved with in the last 25 years tends to come down to a balance of specs vs. needs vs. price in the end.

Or...put another way...what the users want to buy, what is the minimum technically needed to get the job done, and what the accountants actually buy.

Sadly these three criteria are seldom the same......

 

[Graham]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hogstooth</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can keep the bolt guns they are good, but to think that you are going to take a head shot on a moving target under stress is silly no matter what platform you are using. I think there have been unrealistic training practices implemented over the years when it comes to LE Sniper training. Do I think head shots are possible? Yes, but in this day in age I think the situations are becoming far and few for that type of situation to arise, and very seldom do people stand still.

If you think that you are going to shoot a guy center mass and he is instantly going to die, you are also mistaken. I am sure that it happens, but you cannot assume that it is going to happen in every situation under stress.

LE Snipers need to train to take multiple center mass shots, or just like you would do with a handgun, practice shooting various body parts to incapacitae your suspect after center mass has failed to stop your threat. </div></div>Sean, you bring up an important point, which is that the consideration for whether or not to equip a team with gas guns depends not so much on the training of the team than on the expected use of the team - meaning TTP.

For example, I could easily justify equipping an ATF team with only gas guns. But a rural department that always uses two-man teams, and puts multiple teams on the perimeter each time, maybe less so. If one has to take a 'bad' shot because time is of the essence and it's the only shot available, then - if it can be safely done - so be it. But instant incapacitation remains the goal.

I note your military background in your thinking on the subject of technique.

 

[captrichardson]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

Since I was "called out" by Graham,

"Would you care to substantively answer any one question directed your way by any of us, without changing the subject or posting generalities?"

here you go, the "Cliff Notes" summary:

Post 1 – in response to the OP
“I am not going to really get into the “Bolt Gun vs. Gas Gun” debate primarily because I don’t think that there really is one. They both have their Pros & Cons, and IMHO they both can serve as needed as a LE Sniper Rifle.”
- I CLEARLY state that both platforms are acceptable and have their place.
- I then proceed to provide recommendations / specifications for a gas gun as requested by the OP.
*That would be an on topic, FACTUAL response

Post 2 – I respond to Graham’s Post of “Defend the choice of rifle how? From what?”
- I responded with the FACTUAL information that I have acquired from classes, briefings, and articles provided by agencies such as ASA, NTOA, and IACP.
*That would be a DIRECT RESPONSE, as factual as I can make it, based on my knowledge of the subject, but I don’t pretend to be a Lawyer, I just pull triggers.

Post 3 – in response to a number of posts questioning the validity of a gas gun as a LE Sniper Rifle
- I provided a FACTUAL summary of gas gun performance in the recent Urban Sniper Class that I assisted with.
- I provided a summary of Tom Beckstrand’s take on gas gun performance at 2 top tier sniper competions. If you don’t think that is FACTUAL, sorry take it up with Tom.
- I provided a FACTUAL summary of the USASOC Sniper Comp participants and rifles used.
*Take it all as a sales pitch for gas guns if you want, but I was simply posting FACTS that document a gas gun’s capabilities.

Post 4 – in response to KraigWY’s Post of: "To the OP, I'd recommend finding a copy of the USAMU Counter Sniper's guide, high lite the rifle section and drop it on your boss's desk.”
- I highlighted the fact that it was a 30 year old manual, the majority of it contained outdated material, and there were better / more recent documents available.
- Quoting me: “Not saying that some of it is still not applicable, but the majority of it, especially anything that has to do with equipment selection is way out of date.
*NOTE – I did NOT say that it was COMPLETELY void of usable information, which I was repeatedly accused of doing in later posts.

Post 5 – in response to numerous posts on various topics
- In response to KraigWY’s Post on the AMU Manual again, I recommended that more current information from AMU and other nationally recognized LE Sniper resources should be utilized instead of a 30 year old manual.
- In response to Graham’s post of “There's nothing wrong with .308 AR's (except that, as of this writing, the .308 semi AR platform has not yet been perfected in either its design or its manufacture)”, I basically lost my freaking mind, and responded that maybe he could tell all of the significantly successful manufacturers and competitors that they were building or using a rifle that had not been perfected in its design or manufacturer.

Post 6 – responded to Phylodog’s post of “You have yet to point out why police agencies on limited budgets NEED a fucking gas gun.”
- Go back to my Post #1, where I once again stated “They both have their Pros & Cons, and IMHO they both can serve as needed as a LE Sniper Rifle.”
- Also reiterated that point in my response

Post 7 – responded in general to the posts questioning the need for LE Snipers to employ a gas gun with multi-shot quick follow up capability.
- Provided FACTUAL historical cases where “numerous bad guys” were carrying out terrorist or criminal acts which would in turn require the responding agencies to address multiple threats as quickly as possible.

Post 8 – having lost my mind, responded to Graham
- Admittedly nothing of value here!


So out of 8 posts:
- I provided the OP with recommendations on a gas gun, something he asked for.
- I provided FACTUAL information on the performance of gas guns, based on my own personal perspective, and the perspective of some Tier 1 Operators.
- I provided a reference to current and nationally recognized LE Sniper TTD.
- I provided FACTUAL historical perspectives for the justification of a LE sniper rifle with multi-shot quick follow up capability.

I am good with that track record of RESPONDING with FACTUAL information, obviously some of you are not, oh well enjoy your "facts" as you like to see them!

Best of Luck,
M Richardson

 

[kraigWY]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captrichardson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[
Correct, shooting fundamentals are relative, a manual that recommends equipment and corresponding techniques from over 30 years ago, not real relative</div></div>

Go back and read the USAMU Sniper guide, excluding rifles, scopes, etc, take the techniques mentioned in the guide and show me one part that is not relative today.</div></div>

Again, I ask, what techniques (excluding weapons and glass) in the USAMU is not still valid.

Lets deal with the LE aspect, not military. That guide wasn't written for military snipers.

 

[1time]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

I still don't see how a sniper with a semi auto would have made a difference in any of those situations. Everyone of those situations should be or was handled by an assault team breaching the building or patrolman with patrol rifles or pistols.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captrichardson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For eveyone who thinks that a LE Sniper is only about taking out a lone gunman with a single shot, you might want to consider:
- Beslan School Massacre, 32 attackers armed with military weapons and explosives, approx 400 hostages killed.
- Mumbai Terror Attacks, 10 attackers armed with military weapons and explosives, over 150 civilians killed.
- Columbine, Virginia Tech, University of Texas School Shootings, what if any of these included another 2 or 3 more well armed shooters and ended with active shootout?
- Waco Branch Davidian Incident, large numbers of heavily armed individuals in a fortified position.
- North Hollywood Bank Robbery Shootout, great when the PD has to empty the shelves of local gun stores to have adequate firepower to address the suspects.

I can go on, whether it is international or domestic terrorism or acts of violence, especially post 9-11, we don't live in the same world.

If you live in a one stop light town and are not worried about any of the above good for you.

If you are like me and cover schools, shopping malls, govt offices, int airport, etc, then the issues above are a potential reality like it or not.

Not to mention on any given day, it is nothing for many Police Depts to encounter anywhere from 3-8 suspects on a high risk warrant, who can be armed with anything from a pistol to an assault rifle. Not to mentiona what is going on along the south borders with the drug cartels, or what is going on in the major cities with the gangs.

It is not my place to tell any agency what they need.

However if you don't think that an LE agency can have the justification for a gas gun a as sniper rifle, or that a gas gun is not capable of filling that role, then per everything here you may be missing a few clues or facts.

If your bolt gun is getting it done for you, then great continue the good fight as you see fit.

Best of Luck,
M Richardson </div></div>

 

[tylerw02]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

Why the hell do you guys insist on trying to turn it into a debate? OP didn't ask for a debate. OP said he's doing it at the request of the man in charge. Let them decide for themselves and give the guy asking for info the info he's asking for.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

1time is correct,

Some seem to be mixing patrol rifles with LE sniper rifles.

 

[Graham]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why the hell do you guys insist on trying to turn it into a debate? OP didn't ask for a debate. OP said he's doing it at the request of the man in charge. Let them decide for themselves and give the guy asking for info the info he's asking for. </div></div>His question has been answered. The rest is called Thread Drift, which happens. We turn it into a debate because that's what this Site is for: It's how we discuss things, challenge each other's conclusions, and learn from each other.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1time</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I still don't see how a sniper with a semi auto would have made a difference in any of those situations. Everyone of those situations should be or was handled by an assault team breaching the building or patrolman with patrol rifles or pistols.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captrichardson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For eveyone who thinks that a LE Sniper is only about taking out a lone gunman with a single shot, you might want to consider:
- Beslan School Massacre...
- Mumbai Terror Attacks....
- Columbine, Virginia Tech, University of Texas School Shootings, what if any of these included another 2 or 3 more well armed shooters and ended with active shootout?
</div></div></div></div>Captrichardson was speculating about the potential role of LE snipers in various situations: What if Beslan or Mumbai had happened here, or what if Virginia Tech had been different than it was, and he's confusing the roles and functions of different parts of the team.

 

[captrichardson]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Captrichardson was speculating about the potential role of LE snipers in various situations: What if Beslan or Mumbai had happened here, or what if Virginia Tech had been different than it was, and he's confusing the roles and functions of different parts of the team. </div></div>

My point of reference for potential future LE scenarios, as I understood it in some of my training from the gentlemen below:

David Grossman (On Combat & On Killing Presentation)
http://www.killology.com/bio.htm

Kit Cessna (DHS Tact Ops Class)
http://www.amazon.com/Equal-Greater-Force-Developing-Terrorist/dp/1420809687

Kyle Lamb (Numerous Trainings & Conferences)
http://www.policeone.com/columnists/Kyle-Lamb/

I know, just more name dropping. Sorry I don't have a couple of hours to sit in front of keyboard and articulate what I learned in weeks of training.

Elvis has left the building, no really this is it, have fun!
M Richardson

 

[sinister]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dutch1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..."Need".

Spec out a sniper system for downtown. What's important, to what tolerances, inlcuding minimum MOA, cold bore etc...
I'm not a fan of the AR10 in an urban LE environment, I think you're giving up a lot for the Joe Cool factor.
Any valuable information would very helpful!
Cheers

Dutch </div></div>

Again, what's the department's requirements? New car smell? How much are they willing to pay for them (sell or auction off the old guns, a grant, a rich donor, etc.)?

1 MOA for ten shots (or more), and at what range? For 20 shots? For 40? Using contract ammunition (168s)? Mean rounds between stoppages? Are they truly for downtown only, or do you need to provide cover for officers and deputies on country roads or while raiding / seizing marihootchie fields outside downtown areas?

Are they going to run a comparative test, or just buy the lowest bid? Sole source or open bid?

Are they going to recycle their scopes and bipods? Have they budgeted in new equipment qualification time and ammo? Are they going to add clip-on night vision?

I have my own preferences, but both my full-length and carbine are not available (per my spec) by any single manufacturer. On the other hand an outfit like Larue will put on parts they don't build (stock, muzzle accessory, trigger).

 

[Graham]

Re: LE Sniper Rifle - Department Use

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dutch1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Spec out a sniper system for downtown. What's important, to what tolerances, inlcuding minimum MOA, cold bore etc...
I'm not a fan of the AR10 in an urban LE environment, I think you're giving up a lot for the Joe Cool factor.
Any valuable information would very helpful! </div></div>How are the rifles to be maintained/deployed/stored and has it been determined who is going to work on them for routine maintenance/repairs/upgrades?