I am going to try the Lee Collet Die for my new 7mm08 I am having built. I here so many good things about the ammunition these dies will put out but I never hear much about them on here? Is there something Im not hearing about them that I should know? I know they are not the top of the line quality dies, but I have heard that they can turn out just as good ammunition. Any help is appreciated before I spend the money on a set of these.
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Re: Lee Collet Dies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mine work as advertised for my .308.
</div></div>
same here, in 308, 300 wsm, 223, 7.62x54
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mine work as advertised for my .308.
</div></div>
same here, in 308, 300 wsm, 223, 7.62x54
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
I can consistently shoot sub .5 MOA with nothing but Lee Dies. I feel there's a lot of unwarranted superiority felt by those with more expensive equipment; but for someone like myself who only strives for .5 MOA I see no need for anything else.
I can consistently shoot sub .5 MOA with nothing but Lee Dies. I feel there's a lot of unwarranted superiority felt by those with more expensive equipment; but for someone like myself who only strives for .5 MOA I see no need for anything else.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
National benchrest champions will have ~ .5moa average in competition for a season.
Those guys are 10X better than me with 10X better equipment.
But I have a factory rifle that shoots better than .5 moa on no wind days. That has happened once in the last 62 of my range reports over the last 6 years.
And things would be allot worse, if I was not watching accuweather.com for wind speed at range, before I make the 1 hour drive to the range.
I know someone who lives 5 minutes from where he shoots on public land. If the flag hangs straight down, he drives for 5 minutes and shoots. He has been getting .3 moa about once a month with a factory rifle, by watching that flag every day.
What does it all mean?
It is real hard to measure the effectiveness of dies by shooting at the range, because wind error is so much bigger that die caused error.
A better feed back loop is the concentricity gauge.
With the concentricity gauge, the Lee Collet die looks like the best system.
National benchrest champions will have ~ .5moa average in competition for a season.
Those guys are 10X better than me with 10X better equipment.
But I have a factory rifle that shoots better than .5 moa on no wind days. That has happened once in the last 62 of my range reports over the last 6 years.
And things would be allot worse, if I was not watching accuweather.com for wind speed at range, before I make the 1 hour drive to the range.
I know someone who lives 5 minutes from where he shoots on public land. If the flag hangs straight down, he drives for 5 minutes and shoots. He has been getting .3 moa about once a month with a factory rifle, by watching that flag every day.
What does it all mean?
It is real hard to measure the effectiveness of dies by shooting at the range, because wind error is so much bigger that die caused error.
A better feed back loop is the concentricity gauge.
With the concentricity gauge, the Lee Collet die looks like the best system.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
I have a bunch of Lee Collet dies. They're nice because you don't have to lube when you use them. I doubt, however, that they really produce more accurate ammo than other dies. Bullets may also be loose in cases sized with them. In fact, I had a set that produced less accurate ammo than Redding neck sizer dies.
I have a bunch of Lee Collet dies. They're nice because you don't have to lube when you use them. I doubt, however, that they really produce more accurate ammo than other dies. Bullets may also be loose in cases sized with them. In fact, I had a set that produced less accurate ammo than Redding neck sizer dies.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can consistently shoot sub .5 MOA with nothing but Lee Dies. I feel there's a lot of unwarranted superiority felt by those with more expensive equipment; but for someone like myself who only strives for .5 MOA I see no need for anything else. </div></div>
LOL
There are a ton of people here who started with Lee Collet dies, more than you would think, yet the "some of" latest generation of Lee users somehow think they are the enlightened ones.
Most of us have been-there-done-that, and many have moved on.
Sure they work fine, so long as you don't mind no adjustment in tension, the galling of the die if you don't keep it lubed, the lack of easy adjustment of the amount of neck sized, and the fact that you cannot f/l and neck size in a single operation........
They work well, but I can accomplish everything they do and more with a bushing die.
I can change tension with a change of the bushing, change amount of sizing with the twist of a knob, and still don't need lube on the brass.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can consistently shoot sub .5 MOA with nothing but Lee Dies. I feel there's a lot of unwarranted superiority felt by those with more expensive equipment; but for someone like myself who only strives for .5 MOA I see no need for anything else. </div></div>
LOL
There are a ton of people here who started with Lee Collet dies, more than you would think, yet the "some of" latest generation of Lee users somehow think they are the enlightened ones.
Most of us have been-there-done-that, and many have moved on.
Sure they work fine, so long as you don't mind no adjustment in tension, the galling of the die if you don't keep it lubed, the lack of easy adjustment of the amount of neck sized, and the fact that you cannot f/l and neck size in a single operation........
They work well, but I can accomplish everything they do and more with a bushing die.
I can change tension with a change of the bushing, change amount of sizing with the twist of a knob, and still don't need lube on the brass.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
"I know they are not the top of the line quality dies, but I have heard that they can turn out just as good ammunition."
If by "top of the line quality" you mean are they nicely finished, that's sure true, they just ain't nearly as purty to look at as others. But if you judge quality as I do, that is by what can be loaded with them, they are as good as any and better in some ways. Their excellant collet neck sizer is one of those ways.
No die is or can be magic and fix all problems. There is a lot that goes into loading (AND shooting) that no die can correct. But the collet sizers do make straight neck interiors AND will do so reguardless of normal case neck variations. Some necks are so poor that nothing practical can be done for them, they should be tossed.
The collet dies do have a learning curve. That takes some thought and time, the owner simply must learn to use them correctly. Part of that is proper internal die lubing. If anyone is not willing to do all that, he will be better served with a simplier die.
"I know they are not the top of the line quality dies, but I have heard that they can turn out just as good ammunition."
If by "top of the line quality" you mean are they nicely finished, that's sure true, they just ain't nearly as purty to look at as others. But if you judge quality as I do, that is by what can be loaded with them, they are as good as any and better in some ways. Their excellant collet neck sizer is one of those ways.
No die is or can be magic and fix all problems. There is a lot that goes into loading (AND shooting) that no die can correct. But the collet sizers do make straight neck interiors AND will do so reguardless of normal case neck variations. Some necks are so poor that nothing practical can be done for them, they should be tossed.
The collet dies do have a learning curve. That takes some thought and time, the owner simply must learn to use them correctly. Part of that is proper internal die lubing. If anyone is not willing to do all that, he will be better served with a simplier die.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
I have had bushing dies, factory honed out neck dies, and Lee collet dies for many years.
This year I did controlled tests firing the same piece of brass over and over and measuring concentricity. Lee collet dies win.
I had not been using the Lee collet die because the other dies cost more and looked fancier. Jan 2009 was the come to Jesus moment for me and my collet dies I had left on the shelf for years.
I knew that the factory honed were better than the bushing dies, but I was too lazy for too long to do the testing on every type of die I have.
How you can replicate my testing:
Get the reloading next to the shooting area.
Load ammo
Measure concentricity
Fire
Resize with die X
measure case length growth
Load ammo
Measure concentricity
Fire
Resize with die X
measure case length growth
Load ammo
Measure concentricity
Fire
Resize with die X
measure case length growth
Load ammo
Measure concentricity
Fire
Resize with die Y
measure case length growth
Load ammo
Measure concentricity
Fire
Resize with die Y
measure case length growth
Load ammo
Measure concentricity
Fire
Resize with die Y
measure case length growth
Load ammo
Measure concentricity
Fire
Resize with die Y
measure case length growth
Load ammo
Measure concentricity
Fire
Resize with die Z
measure case length growth
Load ammo
Measure concentricity
Fire
Resize with die Z
measure case length growth
Load ammo
Measure concentricity
Fire
Resize with die Z
measure case length growth
Load ammo
Measure concentricity
Fire
Resize with die Z
measure case length growth
If you can do that all day, you are as big a nerd as me.
I have had bushing dies, factory honed out neck dies, and Lee collet dies for many years.
This year I did controlled tests firing the same piece of brass over and over and measuring concentricity. Lee collet dies win.
I had not been using the Lee collet die because the other dies cost more and looked fancier. Jan 2009 was the come to Jesus moment for me and my collet dies I had left on the shelf for years.
I knew that the factory honed were better than the bushing dies, but I was too lazy for too long to do the testing on every type of die I have.
How you can replicate my testing:
Get the reloading next to the shooting area.
Load ammo
Measure concentricity
Fire
Resize with die X
measure case length growth
Load ammo
Measure concentricity
Fire
Resize with die X
measure case length growth
Load ammo
Measure concentricity
Fire
Resize with die X
measure case length growth
Load ammo
Measure concentricity
Fire
Resize with die Y
measure case length growth
Load ammo
Measure concentricity
Fire
Resize with die Y
measure case length growth
Load ammo
Measure concentricity
Fire
Resize with die Y
measure case length growth
Load ammo
Measure concentricity
Fire
Resize with die Y
measure case length growth
Load ammo
Measure concentricity
Fire
Resize with die Z
measure case length growth
Load ammo
Measure concentricity
Fire
Resize with die Z
measure case length growth
Load ammo
Measure concentricity
Fire
Resize with die Z
measure case length growth
Load ammo
Measure concentricity
Fire
Resize with die Z
measure case length growth
If you can do that all day, you are as big a nerd as me.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
In a nut shell they work fine for my 243. I generally size once, spin the case 90* in the shell holder and size again.
I have been reloading for 25+ yrs and only started using Lee equipment in the last 4 yrs or so. I have sold some of my RCBS and Hornady dies and replaced them with Lee dies. I like that all Lee dies have a tapered sizer button. This comes in handy when I make 358 out of 308 brass or 260 out of 243... .
In a nut shell they work fine for my 243. I generally size once, spin the case 90* in the shell holder and size again.
I have been reloading for 25+ yrs and only started using Lee equipment in the last 4 yrs or so. I have sold some of my RCBS and Hornady dies and replaced them with Lee dies. I like that all Lee dies have a tapered sizer button. This comes in handy when I make 358 out of 308 brass or 260 out of 243... .
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
I also have all the tuned dies factory and custom dies for years and belived I was producing the best possible round. That was until 2 years ago when the lee collet die became my go to die. I tested and checked it, it works for me. I do anneal my cases often but I did that before.
Now the same people that got me to try the Lee collet die swear thet the crimp die also works ( just a touch .0005 or so),they are bench rest guys which seems strange coming from them ( most soft seat). Thats been the subject of a thread a short time ago but I will have to test it myself. Nice work Clark
I also have all the tuned dies factory and custom dies for years and belived I was producing the best possible round. That was until 2 years ago when the lee collet die became my go to die. I tested and checked it, it works for me. I do anneal my cases often but I did that before.
Now the same people that got me to try the Lee collet die swear thet the crimp die also works ( just a touch .0005 or so),they are bench rest guys which seems strange coming from them ( most soft seat). Thats been the subject of a thread a short time ago but I will have to test it myself. Nice work Clark
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
"This year I did controlled tests firing the same piece of brass over and over and measuring concentricity. Lee collet dies win."
"That was until 2 years ago when the lee collet die became my go to die. I tested and checked it, it works for me."
"I have sold some of my RCBS and Hornady dies and replaced them with Lee dies."
Ain't it amazing what we can learn if we put our preconceptions behind us and actually try something in a fair and impartial way!
I would guess that not one in a hundred who slime Lee dies have actually tried them, or didn't know how to read the brief directions to see how to use them correctly.
"This year I did controlled tests firing the same piece of brass over and over and measuring concentricity. Lee collet dies win."
"That was until 2 years ago when the lee collet die became my go to die. I tested and checked it, it works for me."
"I have sold some of my RCBS and Hornady dies and replaced them with Lee dies."
Ain't it amazing what we can learn if we put our preconceptions behind us and actually try something in a fair and impartial way!
I would guess that not one in a hundred who slime Lee dies have actually tried them, or didn't know how to read the brief directions to see how to use them correctly.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STONEPONY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any help is appreciated before I spend the money on a set of these. </div></div>
Many who have the Lee collet die use it in conjunction with a body die. A good quality seating die (Forster or Redding <span style="font-style: italic">Competition</span>) will help assure good ammo. In other words, you may not want to invest in a <span style="font-style: italic">set</span>.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STONEPONY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any help is appreciated before I spend the money on a set of these. </div></div>
Many who have the Lee collet die use it in conjunction with a body die. A good quality seating die (Forster or Redding <span style="font-style: italic">Competition</span>) will help assure good ammo. In other words, you may not want to invest in a <span style="font-style: italic">set</span>.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
I guess 5000 rounds or so is not a good enough test?
I used one for years, and was pretty happy with it when paired with the Redding Body die. It made a good combo.
I certainly didn't "slime" the die.
I stated clear reasons why I prefer other dies.
I have not noted degraded accuracy with bushing dies. The ammo still shoots better than I do.
It does not bother me if you use them. They work fine, as I stated in my first post.
I guess 5000 rounds or so is not a good enough test?
I used one for years, and was pretty happy with it when paired with the Redding Body die. It made a good combo.
I certainly didn't "slime" the die.
I stated clear reasons why I prefer other dies.
I have not noted degraded accuracy with bushing dies. The ammo still shoots better than I do.
It does not bother me if you use them. They work fine, as I stated in my first post.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
I started my post before Win69, but had to take a call.
I agree.....If you go with the Collet, get it alone and get a body die.
I started my post before Win69, but had to take a call.
I agree.....If you go with the Collet, get it alone and get a body die.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
For my 308 bolt I use a Lee collet die, Redding body die when I need to bump the shoulder and a Forster micro seater. All 3 were had for right about $100 bucks. Lock Stock and Barrel sells lots of dies individually and not in a set. I also have a Lee crimp die that I use once in a blue moon too. The nice thing about the collet die is it will size all brass to the same internal dimention. Bushing dies require diferent bushings for diferent brands of brass due to neck wall thickness not being the same. I am sure Redding bushing dies are real good but for me the collet die is cheaper and easier.
For my 308 bolt I use a Lee collet die, Redding body die when I need to bump the shoulder and a Forster micro seater. All 3 were had for right about $100 bucks. Lock Stock and Barrel sells lots of dies individually and not in a set. I also have a Lee crimp die that I use once in a blue moon too. The nice thing about the collet die is it will size all brass to the same internal dimention. Bushing dies require diferent bushings for diferent brands of brass due to neck wall thickness not being the same. I am sure Redding bushing dies are real good but for me the collet die is cheaper and easier.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"This year I did controlled tests firing the same piece of brass over and over and measuring concentricity. Lee collet dies win."
"That was until 2 years ago when the lee collet die became my go to die. I tested and checked it, it works for me."
"I have sold some of my RCBS and Hornady dies and replaced them with Lee dies."
Ain't it amazing what we can learn if we put our preconceptions behind us and actually try something in a fair and impartial way!
I would guess that not one in a hundred who slime Lee dies have actually tried them, or didn't know how to read the brief directions to see how to use them correctly.
</div></div>
Exactly correct ! The people that nock the Lee collet neck sizing die have never used it properly to start with . It is different to use and is better in some types of presses than others. Once you know how to use it , it is quite good.
I only use the collet die no other lee die. For seating and body sizing there are better dies than Lee however a Lee sett can produce quite accepatable ammo and is a bargain for the price.
It stands to reason that in that test the collet die would win. The constant firing of the brass would cause hardening of the case neck and as the test continued the collet die would handle that better than other extrusion and longitudinal compressive type sizing methods that rely on the even hardness and even thickness of the brass to assist them to stay straight .
Your test has highlighted this well.
Its real nice to see some consensis of understanding going on on this subject because I have been using them since they came on the market and have torn my hair out at times listening to some of the negative comments by people that never ever understood how to use them. Its not all their fault even Lee's explanation and instructions that come with the dies is not very good. It does not explain nearly enough about how to use them properly .
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"This year I did controlled tests firing the same piece of brass over and over and measuring concentricity. Lee collet dies win."
"That was until 2 years ago when the lee collet die became my go to die. I tested and checked it, it works for me."
"I have sold some of my RCBS and Hornady dies and replaced them with Lee dies."
Ain't it amazing what we can learn if we put our preconceptions behind us and actually try something in a fair and impartial way!
I would guess that not one in a hundred who slime Lee dies have actually tried them, or didn't know how to read the brief directions to see how to use them correctly.
</div></div>
Exactly correct ! The people that nock the Lee collet neck sizing die have never used it properly to start with . It is different to use and is better in some types of presses than others. Once you know how to use it , it is quite good.
I only use the collet die no other lee die. For seating and body sizing there are better dies than Lee however a Lee sett can produce quite accepatable ammo and is a bargain for the price.
It stands to reason that in that test the collet die would win. The constant firing of the brass would cause hardening of the case neck and as the test continued the collet die would handle that better than other extrusion and longitudinal compressive type sizing methods that rely on the even hardness and even thickness of the brass to assist them to stay straight .
Your test has highlighted this well.
Its real nice to see some consensis of understanding going on on this subject because I have been using them since they came on the market and have torn my hair out at times listening to some of the negative comments by people that never ever understood how to use them. Its not all their fault even Lee's explanation and instructions that come with the dies is not very good. It does not explain nearly enough about how to use them properly .
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
I am fairly new to reloading and was wondering what exactly the body die does. I am going to use a full length resizing die when needed because of chambering issues. Can you accomplish the same thing with a body die?
I am fairly new to reloading and was wondering what exactly the body die does. I am going to use a full length resizing die when needed because of chambering issues. Can you accomplish the same thing with a body die?
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can consistently shoot sub .5 MOA with nothing but Lee Dies. I feel there's a lot of unwarranted superiority felt by those with more expensive equipment; but for someone like myself who only strives for .5 MOA I see no need for anything else. </div></div>
LOL
There are a ton of people here who started with Lee Collet dies, more than you would think, yet the "some of" latest generation of Lee users somehow think they are the enlightened ones.
Most of us have been-there-done-that, and many have moved on.
Sure they work fine, so long as you don't mind no adjustment in tension, the galling of the die if you don't keep it lubed, the lack of easy adjustment of the amount of neck sized, and the fact that you cannot f/l and neck size in a single operation........
They work well, but I can accomplish everything they do and more with a bushing die.
I can change tension with a change of the bushing, change amount of sizing with the twist of a knob, and still don't need lube on the brass.
</div></div>
Why is it whenever I post on this forum I get made fun of by someone? I participate a lot in Pontiac and Ford forums and they have a much stronger brotherhood than any gun forum I've ever been a part of it. With these firearms forums it always seems there's some sarcastic asshole trying to 'one up' everyone else. I don't get it?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can consistently shoot sub .5 MOA with nothing but Lee Dies. I feel there's a lot of unwarranted superiority felt by those with more expensive equipment; but for someone like myself who only strives for .5 MOA I see no need for anything else. </div></div>
LOL
There are a ton of people here who started with Lee Collet dies, more than you would think, yet the "some of" latest generation of Lee users somehow think they are the enlightened ones.
Most of us have been-there-done-that, and many have moved on.
Sure they work fine, so long as you don't mind no adjustment in tension, the galling of the die if you don't keep it lubed, the lack of easy adjustment of the amount of neck sized, and the fact that you cannot f/l and neck size in a single operation........
They work well, but I can accomplish everything they do and more with a bushing die.
I can change tension with a change of the bushing, change amount of sizing with the twist of a knob, and still don't need lube on the brass.
</div></div>
Why is it whenever I post on this forum I get made fun of by someone? I participate a lot in Pontiac and Ford forums and they have a much stronger brotherhood than any gun forum I've ever been a part of it. With these firearms forums it always seems there's some sarcastic asshole trying to 'one up' everyone else. I don't get it?
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is it whenever I post on this forum I get made fun of by someone? I participate a lot in Pontiac and Ford forums and they have a much stronger brotherhood than any gun forum I've ever been a part of it. With these firearms forums it always seems there's some sarcastic asshole trying to 'one up' everyone else. I don't get it? </div></div>
If you're calling champion shooters assholes, understand that you're dealing with people who have lifetimes of experience and have absolutely no interest in denigrating anyone. I could suggest paranoia, but I believe you're making a mistake in comparing people who identify with what they own with those whose identity is that of knowledge and accomplishment.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is it whenever I post on this forum I get made fun of by someone? I participate a lot in Pontiac and Ford forums and they have a much stronger brotherhood than any gun forum I've ever been a part of it. With these firearms forums it always seems there's some sarcastic asshole trying to 'one up' everyone else. I don't get it? </div></div>
If you're calling champion shooters assholes, understand that you're dealing with people who have lifetimes of experience and have absolutely no interest in denigrating anyone. I could suggest paranoia, but I believe you're making a mistake in comparing people who identify with what they own with those whose identity is that of knowledge and accomplishment.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
I agree, though I am certainly no champion shooter.
71firebird400;
I would likely not have even posted in this thread if it were not for the "I feel there's a lot of unwarranted superiority felt by those with more expensive equipment" statement.
I still use Lee priming tools because I do not want for something better. I bet you are fine with that, huh?
It looked to me that you would not have made that statement in a public forum unless you were trolling for a response. You got one, and your response is to whine and call me an asshole?
I agree, though I am certainly no champion shooter.
71firebird400;
I would likely not have even posted in this thread if it were not for the "I feel there's a lot of unwarranted superiority felt by those with more expensive equipment" statement.
I still use Lee priming tools because I do not want for something better. I bet you are fine with that, huh?
It looked to me that you would not have made that statement in a public forum unless you were trolling for a response. You got one, and your response is to whine and call me an asshole?
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
Our protagonist's declaration of March 29:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is the one gun forum I felt compelled to join as there seems to be a lot of knowledge, instead of a bunch of internet commando's.</div></div>
His current opinion seems incongruous.
<span style="font-style: italic">Firebird</span> is a student at South Dakota State University, so we should consider that he's still learning.
Our protagonist's declaration of March 29:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is the one gun forum I felt compelled to join as there seems to be a lot of knowledge, instead of a bunch of internet commando's.</div></div>
His current opinion seems incongruous.
<span style="font-style: italic">Firebird</span> is a student at South Dakota State University, so we should consider that he's still learning.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
I added my sincere opinion to this thread, and you quoted it and put "LOL". I was speaking in reference to the turbo's down at Scheel's who will degrade Lee equipment and do their best to convince a person that RCBS is superior because that is what they sell.
What's your deal man? Gotta come in here and mock me for no reason? Then your sidekick Winchester 69 comes in and has to help you jump on me?
Doesn't make sense to me.
I added my sincere opinion to this thread, and you quoted it and put "LOL". I was speaking in reference to the turbo's down at Scheel's who will degrade Lee equipment and do their best to convince a person that RCBS is superior because that is what they sell.
What's your deal man? Gotta come in here and mock me for no reason? Then your sidekick Winchester 69 comes in and has to help you jump on me?
Doesn't make sense to me.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
Oh, for chrissakes... you *really* need to get a little thicker skinned if you plan on hanging around here. Not every comment that doesn't agree with yours is an attack, and even the ones that may be... unless you are prepared to do battle, let 'em go.
Now... back to the subject at hand: I have a sort of love-hate relationship with the Lee Collet dies. I love the fact that they work simply and with no lube required. I don't like the fact that its not as easy to adjust neck tension as it is with bushing dies. I like the fact that they will take a Winchester case fired in a max SAAMI spec factory chamber back down to proper size - with next to no run-out, in one step. I dislike the fact that I have to run a body die along with (extra step) rather than use something like a F/L bushing die that can do both in one. I *hate* the fact that no matter what I do (and yes, I've tried all the prescribed home remedies, wive's tales, and other B.S.), it's a matter of *when* it's gonna take a case neck and shove it back down inside the shoulder, not 'if'. With cheap Winchester brass, thats damn annoying. With expensive neck-turned Lapua brass... unforgivable.
That's my $0.02 worth over maybe 1000-1500 rounds worth of using Lee Collet dies, vs. 10,000+ of Redding/Wilson bushing dies.
YMMV,
Monte
Oh, for chrissakes... you *really* need to get a little thicker skinned if you plan on hanging around here. Not every comment that doesn't agree with yours is an attack, and even the ones that may be... unless you are prepared to do battle, let 'em go.
Now... back to the subject at hand: I have a sort of love-hate relationship with the Lee Collet dies. I love the fact that they work simply and with no lube required. I don't like the fact that its not as easy to adjust neck tension as it is with bushing dies. I like the fact that they will take a Winchester case fired in a max SAAMI spec factory chamber back down to proper size - with next to no run-out, in one step. I dislike the fact that I have to run a body die along with (extra step) rather than use something like a F/L bushing die that can do both in one. I *hate* the fact that no matter what I do (and yes, I've tried all the prescribed home remedies, wive's tales, and other B.S.), it's a matter of *when* it's gonna take a case neck and shove it back down inside the shoulder, not 'if'. With cheap Winchester brass, thats damn annoying. With expensive neck-turned Lapua brass... unforgivable.
That's my $0.02 worth over maybe 1000-1500 rounds worth of using Lee Collet dies, vs. 10,000+ of Redding/Wilson bushing dies.
YMMV,
Monte
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
Boy, arnt we the sencitive one 71firebird400
!!!Good luck getting sympathy in here
.
I don't use my LFCD(sorry I thought the discussion was on the FCD
) much but I do like it alot when I do use it.
I just use a firm neck tension for my AR15 ammo and havn't had any issues in a few thousand rounds.
I liked to take some of my best ammo(from time to time when I was shooting more) and see how much I can crimp it before seeing a noticable drop off in accuracy.
At 100yrds I had to crush the bullet pretty good to get a difference that I could clearly notice(non cannelure Match 75gr bthp).
JMO and don't get mad because I made a sideways joking comment!
BTW,One thing I remember is the tendancy to split the necks of the cases quicker.Anybody else experience this?
I was probably doing something wrong to cause it for all I know.
ALSO-I here you on the Lee stuff.I love it as well and have made some good sub-1/2 groups from it in my ar15.
What others here with more experience are talking about is the limitations of Lee equipment.
I have needed to make a few extra purchases to do what I want to do with reloading but in General and at my current level of precision requirements in my ar15,,,I don't need much else to make consistent ammo that is better than 1 MOA to at least 600yrds.I agree many people over hype there gear but thats not whats going on in this conversation IMO.
Boy, arnt we the sencitive one 71firebird400
I don't use my LFCD(sorry I thought the discussion was on the FCD
I just use a firm neck tension for my AR15 ammo and havn't had any issues in a few thousand rounds.
I liked to take some of my best ammo(from time to time when I was shooting more) and see how much I can crimp it before seeing a noticable drop off in accuracy.
At 100yrds I had to crush the bullet pretty good to get a difference that I could clearly notice(non cannelure Match 75gr bthp).
JMO and don't get mad because I made a sideways joking comment!
BTW,One thing I remember is the tendancy to split the necks of the cases quicker.Anybody else experience this?
I was probably doing something wrong to cause it for all I know.
ALSO-I here you on the Lee stuff.I love it as well and have made some good sub-1/2 groups from it in my ar15.
What others here with more experience are talking about is the limitations of Lee equipment.
I have needed to make a few extra purchases to do what I want to do with reloading but in General and at my current level of precision requirements in my ar15,,,I don't need much else to make consistent ammo that is better than 1 MOA to at least 600yrds.I agree many people over hype there gear but thats not whats going on in this conversation IMO.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
I'll let this go, I'm just used to a more respectful crowd. No harm meant, Rafael and Winchester 69.
I'll let this go, I'm just used to a more respectful crowd. No harm meant, Rafael and Winchester 69.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STONEPONY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am going to try the Lee Collet Die for my new 7mm08 I am having built. I here so many good things about the ammunition these dies will put out but I never hear much about them on here? Is there something Im not hearing about them that I should know? I know they are not the top of the line quality dies, but I have heard that they can turn out just as good ammunition. Any help is appreciated before I spend the money on a set of these. </div></div>
IMO for what Lee dies were designed to do,,They ARE top quality dies.
Ive reloaded many thousands of rounds with them while NOT using a tumbler.
They make excellent ammo!
Like anything,,They can't do everything,but what They do,They do well and ive got thousands of excellent,accurate,,reliable rounds fired to prove it.
A lot of that ammo was match grade stuff shot through my ar15 at ranges from 100-800yrds.
Just because something or someone isn't claiming its the best in the world doesn't mean its not a good product.
Leehas some excellent designed stuff that makes reloading easy and makes Lee equipment the best deal in reloading PERIOD IMO.
Another thing thats a real plus with the collet neck sizing die is NO LUBE NEEDED.
I love that and its one of the reasons I use a redding body die with neck die.
Its not at all needed and may not be any better over aFL die but its just the way I like to do it.
If your using a Bolt gun I would use your firformed cases(from your chamber) and neck size only with the collet die.I would at least try it
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STONEPONY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am going to try the Lee Collet Die for my new 7mm08 I am having built. I here so many good things about the ammunition these dies will put out but I never hear much about them on here? Is there something Im not hearing about them that I should know? I know they are not the top of the line quality dies, but I have heard that they can turn out just as good ammunition. Any help is appreciated before I spend the money on a set of these. </div></div>
IMO for what Lee dies were designed to do,,They ARE top quality dies.
Ive reloaded many thousands of rounds with them while NOT using a tumbler.
They make excellent ammo!
Like anything,,They can't do everything,but what They do,They do well and ive got thousands of excellent,accurate,,reliable rounds fired to prove it.
A lot of that ammo was match grade stuff shot through my ar15 at ranges from 100-800yrds.
Just because something or someone isn't claiming its the best in the world doesn't mean its not a good product.
Leehas some excellent designed stuff that makes reloading easy and makes Lee equipment the best deal in reloading PERIOD IMO.
Another thing thats a real plus with the collet neck sizing die is NO LUBE NEEDED.
I love that and its one of the reasons I use a redding body die with neck die.
Its not at all needed and may not be any better over aFL die but its just the way I like to do it.
If your using a Bolt gun I would use your firformed cases(from your chamber) and neck size only with the collet die.I would at least try it
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can consistently shoot sub .5 MOA with nothing but Lee Dies. I feel there's a lot of unwarranted superiority felt by those with more expensive equipment; but for someone like myself who only strives for .5 MOA I see no need for anything else. </div></div>
I am not sure why you are still complaining. You offered up an insult with your first post in this thread, and now you explain it away but cannot forgive the reaction it brought? You seem to have forgotten the insult you offered in reply,"sarcastic asshole", as well as the original one.
I was not and am not heartbroken over them. Why are you?
Normally on this site, when one makes accuracy claims like yours, they are asked to confirm it by posting proof consisting of a target pic containing five 5-shot groups all on the same piece of target paper and the distance it was shot from. Noone has pressed you for that.
Stick around. This is a great site. Do expect to be called on statements that are not readily accepted as fact.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can consistently shoot sub .5 MOA with nothing but Lee Dies. I feel there's a lot of unwarranted superiority felt by those with more expensive equipment; but for someone like myself who only strives for .5 MOA I see no need for anything else. </div></div>
I am not sure why you are still complaining. You offered up an insult with your first post in this thread, and now you explain it away but cannot forgive the reaction it brought? You seem to have forgotten the insult you offered in reply,"sarcastic asshole", as well as the original one.
I was not and am not heartbroken over them. Why are you?
Normally on this site, when one makes accuracy claims like yours, they are asked to confirm it by posting proof consisting of a target pic containing five 5-shot groups all on the same piece of target paper and the distance it was shot from. Noone has pressed you for that.
Stick around. This is a great site. Do expect to be called on statements that are not readily accepted as fact.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
I have used Lee Collets for years and have no complaints... for the most part. Memilanuk made the comment that they like to shove the shoulder down into the body of the case on occasion. He speaks the truth and I would never say anything because I thought I was the only squirrel knuckle it happened to.
I have reloaded some accurate ammo on these collet dies. But, I have reloaded more accurate ammo on my Wilson straight line dies.
The problem is that I don't have the time required to punch all my ammo out on the Wilson gear.
Having said all that, I like my Lee dies.
I have used Lee Collets for years and have no complaints... for the most part. Memilanuk made the comment that they like to shove the shoulder down into the body of the case on occasion. He speaks the truth and I would never say anything because I thought I was the only squirrel knuckle it happened to.
I have reloaded some accurate ammo on these collet dies. But, I have reloaded more accurate ammo on my Wilson straight line dies.
The problem is that I don't have the time required to punch all my ammo out on the Wilson gear.
Having said all that, I like my Lee dies.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nashlaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...she could not stand not being able to get hold of you when she was upset or needed you and put up with the clutter that seems to thrive in your truck."</div></div>
Remember that Lou Gehrig speech?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nashlaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...she could not stand not being able to get hold of you when she was upset or needed you and put up with the clutter that seems to thrive in your truck."</div></div>
Remember that Lou Gehrig speech?
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
Monte,
Someone paid you a nice compliment that I think is worth passing on:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...about Monte......bright guy with loads of experience. I just wish he were around more often.</div></div>
Monte,
Someone paid you a nice compliment that I think is worth passing on:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...about Monte......bright guy with loads of experience. I just wish he were around more often.</div></div>
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winchester 69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nashlaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...she could not stand not being able to get hold of you when she was upset or needed you and put up with the clutter that seems to thrive in your truck."</div></div>
Remeber that Lou Gehrig speech?
</div></div>
It is still in my cell phone archives. Priceless.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winchester 69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nashlaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...she could not stand not being able to get hold of you when she was upset or needed you and put up with the clutter that seems to thrive in your truck."</div></div>
Remeber that Lou Gehrig speech?
</div></div>
It is still in my cell phone archives. Priceless.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nashlaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.............Memilanuk made the comment that they like to shove the shoulder down into the body of the case on occasion. He speaks the truth and I would never say anything because I thought I was the only squirrel knuckle it happened to....... </div></div>
Me three.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nashlaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.............Memilanuk made the comment that they like to shove the shoulder down into the body of the case on occasion. He speaks the truth and I would never say anything because I thought I was the only squirrel knuckle it happened to....... </div></div>
Me three.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
I have every kind of reloading die that has ever been invented in the last 40 years and a few I invented myself . However I still have a place and a job for my Lee collet dies because they do a very good job when you use them for what they were designed to do.
You can very easily adjust the sized length of a Lee collet die by adding a machined washer ontop of the shell holder when you use it . Neck tensions can be adjusted by making several different diameter mandrels .
I have every kind of reloading die that has ever been invented in the last 40 years and a few I invented myself . However I still have a place and a job for my Lee collet dies because they do a very good job when you use them for what they were designed to do.
You can very easily adjust the sized length of a Lee collet die by adding a machined washer ontop of the shell holder when you use it . Neck tensions can be adjusted by making several different diameter mandrels .
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the galling of the die if you don't keep it lubed,
</div></div>
How does a collet neck sizing die gall the brass? Won't a bushing die gall the brass before a collet?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The collet dies do have a learning curve. That takes some thought and time, the owner simply must learn to use them correctly. <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Part of that is proper internal die lubing.</span></span> If anyone is not willing to do all that, he will be better served with a simplier die.</div></div>
I am new to my collet die. What do you mean by internal die lubing? How/when/why is this done? I have not heard this before.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the galling of the die if you don't keep it lubed,
</div></div>
How does a collet neck sizing die gall the brass? Won't a bushing die gall the brass before a collet?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The collet dies do have a learning curve. That takes some thought and time, the owner simply must learn to use them correctly. <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Part of that is proper internal die lubing.</span></span> If anyone is not willing to do all that, he will be better served with a simplier die.</div></div>
I am new to my collet die. What do you mean by internal die lubing? How/when/why is this done? I have not heard this before.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
I used some AWESOME Tetra grease for lubing the inside of my collet die(very rarely needs to be done).
If you take the collet die apart you can see the friction points in the die.
I did not do this at 1st when using my die but eventually it did stuck on me acouple times over the many hundreds of rounds I loaded.
Just a little grease fixes this on the high friction areas of the die
(not the part that touches the brass).
Its hard for me to explain but I totally agree with Rafael.
This part should have some good grease used on it.The galling He mentioned is on the internal friction surfaces of the die I believe,,NOT the part that is pressing against the brass.
I used some AWESOME Tetra grease for lubing the inside of my collet die(very rarely needs to be done).
If you take the collet die apart you can see the friction points in the die.
I did not do this at 1st when using my die but eventually it did stuck on me acouple times over the many hundreds of rounds I loaded.
Just a little grease fixes this on the high friction areas of the die
(not the part that touches the brass).
Its hard for me to explain but I totally agree with Rafael.
This part should have some good grease used on it.The galling He mentioned is on the internal friction surfaces of the die I believe,,NOT the part that is pressing against the brass.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
The brass does not gall, but the case-neck can be crushed when the die parts become galled and don't open up for the next case you size....or they get stuck closed on a piece of brass and you may wind up trying to rip the neck off the case when trying to extract it.
As Bucky said.....the internal die components need lube.
If you disassemble the die, you will find the sliding sleeve and a forcing cone that fit together. The cone forces the collet fingers together when you apply pressure. This contact point between the two pieces needs to be kept well lubed or the two will gall.
The brass does not gall, but the case-neck can be crushed when the die parts become galled and don't open up for the next case you size....or they get stuck closed on a piece of brass and you may wind up trying to rip the neck off the case when trying to extract it.
As Bucky said.....the internal die components need lube.
If you disassemble the die, you will find the sliding sleeve and a forcing cone that fit together. The cone forces the collet fingers together when you apply pressure. This contact point between the two pieces needs to be kept well lubed or the two will gall.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
the internal die components need lube.
If you disassemble the die, you will find the sliding sleeve and a forcing cone that fit together. The cone forces the collet fingers together when you apply pressure. This contact point between the two pieces needs to be kept well lubed or the two will gall. </div></div>
There,,,That was a much better description!
I find a top quality grease like Tetra grease stays put and works excellent for this as well as triggers and other high friction parts.This stuff is great!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
the internal die components need lube.
If you disassemble the die, you will find the sliding sleeve and a forcing cone that fit together. The cone forces the collet fingers together when you apply pressure. This contact point between the two pieces needs to be kept well lubed or the two will gall. </div></div>
There,,,That was a much better description!
I find a top quality grease like Tetra grease stays put and works excellent for this as well as triggers and other high friction parts.This stuff is great!
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
I should have used a better lube like Tetra!
I think I just used some axle grease at the time.
I should have used a better lube like Tetra!
I think I just used some axle grease at the time.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
A little off topic(sorry) but Tetra gun grease is THE BEST grease I have ever used.
You can feel a difference in every trigger I have put it on and the stuff never goes away.It will be on there the same as when you 1st put it on.
I use it on my ar15(Jp trigger and cam pin in the bolt/carrier) and a light coat of marvel mystery oil for all other friction points on the gun that recieve a lot of dirt and powder residue(mainly just the carrier and the gas rings and very little).My guns always clean with ease and stay lubed for what seems like forever.
I one time rapid fired 300 rnds as fast as I could load the mags(NOT ON MY CURRENT AR15 setup!!!) and I could still see the same light coat of marvel on the bolt and carrier while mybarrel was SUPER HOT and fore grip was almost to hot to hold onto.Both Tetra grease and Marvel are super slippery lubes that work in all weather I have used them(Maine winters )
I swear Marvel is the ultimate ar15 lube IMO
A little off topic(sorry) but Tetra gun grease is THE BEST grease I have ever used.
You can feel a difference in every trigger I have put it on and the stuff never goes away.It will be on there the same as when you 1st put it on.
I use it on my ar15(Jp trigger and cam pin in the bolt/carrier) and a light coat of marvel mystery oil for all other friction points on the gun that recieve a lot of dirt and powder residue(mainly just the carrier and the gas rings and very little).My guns always clean with ease and stay lubed for what seems like forever.
I one time rapid fired 300 rnds as fast as I could load the mags(NOT ON MY CURRENT AR15 setup!!!) and I could still see the same light coat of marvel on the bolt and carrier while mybarrel was SUPER HOT and fore grip was almost to hot to hold onto.Both Tetra grease and Marvel are super slippery lubes that work in all weather I have used them(Maine winters )
I swear Marvel is the ultimate ar15 lube IMO
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
I thought I would share an article written by J Valentine he demonstrates the value of the Lee die.
It does not size like that, it squeezes in on a central mandrel. The only way you can reduce the length of neck area sized is by placing a machined washer over the case onto the shell holder. The thickness of the washer is the length of reduction.
Using The Lee Collet Die.
I started using Lee collet dies when they first came on the market and have found that they are very good for the purposes for which they were designed.
I have found that there is a lack of understanding of how to use the die properly and as a result people fail to see the advantages that the die can deliver over standard neck sizing dies.
This is not the fault of the product; it is just a lack of understanding of how the die works and what it will feel like when you operate the press correctly.
Standard dies use a neck expanding ball on the decapping rod and size by extruding the neck through a hole and then drag the expander ball back through the inside neck.
The collet die achieves neck sizing by using a split collet to squeeze the outside of the case neck onto a central mandrel which has the decapping pin in its base.
One advantage is that there is no stretching or drawing action on the brass.
The inside neck diameter is controlled by the diameter of the mandrel and to some extent by the amount of adjustment of the die and the pressure applied to the press.
This results in less misalignment than can occur in standard dies because of any uneven neck wall thickness in the cases.
Cases will last longer in the neck area and require less trimming. If cases have very uneven neck wall thickness then this can cause problems for the collet die they definitely work smoother and more accurately with neck turned cases but it is not essential.
When you first receive the die unscrew the top cap and pull it apart check that everything is there also that the splits in the collet have nothing stuck in them then inspect the tapered surface on the top end of the collet and the internal taper of the insert to make sure there are no metal burs that might cause it to jamb.
Next get some good quality high pressure grease and put a smear onto the tapered surface of the collet .
Put it back together and screw it into the press just a few threads for now . The best type of press for this die is a press of moderate compound leverage that travels over centre .
Over centre means that when the ram reaches its full travel up it will stop and come back down a tiny amount even though the movement on the handle is continued through to the stop .
E.g. is an RCBS Rockchucker.
This arrangement gives the best feel for a collet die sizing operation.
Place the shell holder in the ram and bring the ram up to full height then screw the die down until the collet skirt just touches on the shell holder , then lower the ram .
Take a case to be sized that has a clean neck inside and out and the mouth chamfered and place it in the shell holder.
Raise the ram gently feeling for resistance if none , lower the ram.
Screw the die down a bit at a time .
If you get lock up ( ram stops before going over centre) before the correct position is found then back it off and make sure the collet is loose and not jammed up in the die before continuing then raise the ram feeling for any resistance , keep repeating this until you feel the press handle resist against the case neck just at the top of the stroke as the press goes over centre and the handle kinder locks in place .
This takes much less force than a standard die and most people don’t believe any sizing has taken place .
Take the case out and try a projectile of the correct caliber to see how much sizing has taken place.
If it’s still too loose adjust the die down one eighth of a turn lock it finger tight only and try again .
Once the die is near the correct sizing position it takes very little movement of the die to achieve changes in neck seating tension .
This is where most people come undone , they move the die up and down too much and it either locks up or doesn’t size at all .
It will still size a case locking it up but you have no control over how much pressure is applied and some people lean on the press handle to the point of damaging the die. A press like the RCBS Rockchucker that goes over centre each time gives you a definite stopping point for the ram and the pressure that you apply .
There is a small sweet spot for correct collet die adjustment and you must find it , once found , how sweet it is ! Advantages : With a press that travels over centre it is possible to adjust the neck seating tension within a very limited zone. No lubricant is normally required on the case necks during sizing .
If you still can’t get enough neck tension to hold the bullet properly for a particular purpose then you will have to polish down the mandrel.
Be careful polishing the mandrel down and only do it a bit at a time as a few thou can be removed pretty quickly if you overdo it.
You can't get extra neck tension by just applying more force. The amount of adjustment around the sweet spot is very limited and almost not noticeable without carrying out tests.
For example , to go from a .001 neck tension to a .002 or .003 neck tension you would be talking about polishing down the mandrel. <span style="font-style: italic">Trevor's comment you don't have to polish if you don't want to, Lee sells different size mandrels just like bushings if you need more neck tension.</span>
There are some other advantages but I will leave you the pleasure of discovering them .
One disadvantage that I have found with the collet die is that it needs good vertical alignment of the case as it enters the die or case damage may result so go slowly.
Also some cases with a very thick internal base can cause problems with the mandrel coming in contact with the internal base before the sizing stroke is finished.
If pressure is continued the mandrel can push up against the top cap and cause damage . If you are getting lock up and cant get the right sizing sweet spot, then check that the mandrel is not too long for the case you can place a washer over the case and onto the shell holder and size down on that.
It will reduce the length of neck sized and give the mandrel more clearance. If it sizes Ok after adding the washer then the mandrel could be hitting the base.
This is not a usually problem once you learn how to use them .
The harder the brass is the more spring back it will have so very hard brass will exhibit less sizing than soft brass because it will spring away from the mandrel more. If this is happening to excess then use new cases or anneal the necks.
Freshly annealed brass can drag on the mandrel a bit in certain cases because it will spring back less and result in a tighter size diameter.
I have experienced it. I always use some dry lube on the inside and outside if I get any dragging effect. Normally you don’t need lube.
I make up a special batch 1/3 Fine Moly powder. 1/3 Pure graphite. 1/3 Aluminiumised lock graphite. Rub your fingers around the neck and It sticks very well to the necks by just dipping it in and out and tapping it to clear the inside neck. After a few cases it coats up the mandrel.
Other dry lubricants would work also.
Use the same process for normal neck sizing also.
I noticed a definite improvement in the accuracy of my 22-250Rem. as soon as I started using a Lee collet die instead of my original standard neck die.
Readers are encouraged to utilize the benefits of responsible reloading at all times. Although the author has taken care in the writing of these articles no responsibility can be taken by the author or publisher as a result of the use of this information.
John Valentine. © 21/01/2002.
I thought I would share an article written by J Valentine he demonstrates the value of the Lee die.
It does not size like that, it squeezes in on a central mandrel. The only way you can reduce the length of neck area sized is by placing a machined washer over the case onto the shell holder. The thickness of the washer is the length of reduction.
Using The Lee Collet Die.
I started using Lee collet dies when they first came on the market and have found that they are very good for the purposes for which they were designed.
I have found that there is a lack of understanding of how to use the die properly and as a result people fail to see the advantages that the die can deliver over standard neck sizing dies.
This is not the fault of the product; it is just a lack of understanding of how the die works and what it will feel like when you operate the press correctly.
Standard dies use a neck expanding ball on the decapping rod and size by extruding the neck through a hole and then drag the expander ball back through the inside neck.
The collet die achieves neck sizing by using a split collet to squeeze the outside of the case neck onto a central mandrel which has the decapping pin in its base.
One advantage is that there is no stretching or drawing action on the brass.
The inside neck diameter is controlled by the diameter of the mandrel and to some extent by the amount of adjustment of the die and the pressure applied to the press.
This results in less misalignment than can occur in standard dies because of any uneven neck wall thickness in the cases.
Cases will last longer in the neck area and require less trimming. If cases have very uneven neck wall thickness then this can cause problems for the collet die they definitely work smoother and more accurately with neck turned cases but it is not essential.
When you first receive the die unscrew the top cap and pull it apart check that everything is there also that the splits in the collet have nothing stuck in them then inspect the tapered surface on the top end of the collet and the internal taper of the insert to make sure there are no metal burs that might cause it to jamb.
Next get some good quality high pressure grease and put a smear onto the tapered surface of the collet .
Put it back together and screw it into the press just a few threads for now . The best type of press for this die is a press of moderate compound leverage that travels over centre .
Over centre means that when the ram reaches its full travel up it will stop and come back down a tiny amount even though the movement on the handle is continued through to the stop .
E.g. is an RCBS Rockchucker.
This arrangement gives the best feel for a collet die sizing operation.
Place the shell holder in the ram and bring the ram up to full height then screw the die down until the collet skirt just touches on the shell holder , then lower the ram .
Take a case to be sized that has a clean neck inside and out and the mouth chamfered and place it in the shell holder.
Raise the ram gently feeling for resistance if none , lower the ram.
Screw the die down a bit at a time .
If you get lock up ( ram stops before going over centre) before the correct position is found then back it off and make sure the collet is loose and not jammed up in the die before continuing then raise the ram feeling for any resistance , keep repeating this until you feel the press handle resist against the case neck just at the top of the stroke as the press goes over centre and the handle kinder locks in place .
This takes much less force than a standard die and most people don’t believe any sizing has taken place .
Take the case out and try a projectile of the correct caliber to see how much sizing has taken place.
If it’s still too loose adjust the die down one eighth of a turn lock it finger tight only and try again .
Once the die is near the correct sizing position it takes very little movement of the die to achieve changes in neck seating tension .
This is where most people come undone , they move the die up and down too much and it either locks up or doesn’t size at all .
It will still size a case locking it up but you have no control over how much pressure is applied and some people lean on the press handle to the point of damaging the die. A press like the RCBS Rockchucker that goes over centre each time gives you a definite stopping point for the ram and the pressure that you apply .
There is a small sweet spot for correct collet die adjustment and you must find it , once found , how sweet it is ! Advantages : With a press that travels over centre it is possible to adjust the neck seating tension within a very limited zone. No lubricant is normally required on the case necks during sizing .
If you still can’t get enough neck tension to hold the bullet properly for a particular purpose then you will have to polish down the mandrel.
Be careful polishing the mandrel down and only do it a bit at a time as a few thou can be removed pretty quickly if you overdo it.
You can't get extra neck tension by just applying more force. The amount of adjustment around the sweet spot is very limited and almost not noticeable without carrying out tests.
For example , to go from a .001 neck tension to a .002 or .003 neck tension you would be talking about polishing down the mandrel. <span style="font-style: italic">Trevor's comment you don't have to polish if you don't want to, Lee sells different size mandrels just like bushings if you need more neck tension.</span>
There are some other advantages but I will leave you the pleasure of discovering them .
One disadvantage that I have found with the collet die is that it needs good vertical alignment of the case as it enters the die or case damage may result so go slowly.
Also some cases with a very thick internal base can cause problems with the mandrel coming in contact with the internal base before the sizing stroke is finished.
If pressure is continued the mandrel can push up against the top cap and cause damage . If you are getting lock up and cant get the right sizing sweet spot, then check that the mandrel is not too long for the case you can place a washer over the case and onto the shell holder and size down on that.
It will reduce the length of neck sized and give the mandrel more clearance. If it sizes Ok after adding the washer then the mandrel could be hitting the base.
This is not a usually problem once you learn how to use them .
The harder the brass is the more spring back it will have so very hard brass will exhibit less sizing than soft brass because it will spring away from the mandrel more. If this is happening to excess then use new cases or anneal the necks.
Freshly annealed brass can drag on the mandrel a bit in certain cases because it will spring back less and result in a tighter size diameter.
I have experienced it. I always use some dry lube on the inside and outside if I get any dragging effect. Normally you don’t need lube.
I make up a special batch 1/3 Fine Moly powder. 1/3 Pure graphite. 1/3 Aluminiumised lock graphite. Rub your fingers around the neck and It sticks very well to the necks by just dipping it in and out and tapping it to clear the inside neck. After a few cases it coats up the mandrel.
Other dry lubricants would work also.
Use the same process for normal neck sizing also.
I noticed a definite improvement in the accuracy of my 22-250Rem. as soon as I started using a Lee collet die instead of my original standard neck die.
Readers are encouraged to utilize the benefits of responsible reloading at all times. Although the author has taken care in the writing of these articles no responsibility can be taken by the author or publisher as a result of the use of this information.
John Valentine. © 21/01/2002.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trevor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">........................
It does not size like that, it squeezes in on a central mandrel.
..........................................................
</div></div>
Is this part a repy to or argument against any particular post?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trevor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">........................
It does not size like that, it squeezes in on a central mandrel.
..........................................................
</div></div>
Is this part a repy to or argument against any particular post?
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
This is a great thread. Thanks for the info! I lubed my .308 Collet die with Brian Enos' slide glide grease after reading Raf & Bucky's responses. Trevor- You rock! Thanks for the info.
This is a great thread. Thanks for the info! I lubed my .308 Collet die with Brian Enos' slide glide grease after reading Raf & Bucky's responses. Trevor- You rock! Thanks for the info.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
tag... i've learned allot today.... i might have discovered part of my vertical stringing problem, i knew i was not getting consistant neck tension, now i understand why.
as for all the bickering, i could enjoy the post much more so w/ out it, but it seems to always be around on this sight, some of it is the veterans tired of putting up w/ us rookie's. but i suspect that some of it is like the guy who debated me endlessly on how screwed up my reloading process was, only to meet him months later and find out he is 17yrs old and never pulled the handle of a press in his life.
tag... i've learned allot today.... i might have discovered part of my vertical stringing problem, i knew i was not getting consistant neck tension, now i understand why.
as for all the bickering, i could enjoy the post much more so w/ out it, but it seems to always be around on this sight, some of it is the veterans tired of putting up w/ us rookie's. but i suspect that some of it is like the guy who debated me endlessly on how screwed up my reloading process was, only to meet him months later and find out he is 17yrs old and never pulled the handle of a press in his life.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trevor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">........................
It does not size like that, it squeezes in on a central mandrel.
..........................................................
</div></div>
Is this part a repy to or argument against any particular post?
</div></div>
Hi Rafael no it was not directed at anyone specific it was part of John Valentine post but I believe the debate of bushing over mandrel is common enough and the comment was worth leaving in.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trevor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">........................
It does not size like that, it squeezes in on a central mandrel.
..........................................................
</div></div>
Is this part a repy to or argument against any particular post?
</div></div>
Hi Rafael no it was not directed at anyone specific it was part of John Valentine post but I believe the debate of bushing over mandrel is common enough and the comment was worth leaving in.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trevor</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trevor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">........................
It does not size like that, it squeezes in on a central mandrel.
..........................................................
</div></div>
Is this part a repy to or argument against any particular post?
</div></div>
Hi Rafael no it was not directed at anyone specific it was part of John Valentine post but I believe the debate of bushing over mandrel is common enough and the comment was worth leaving in.
</div></div>
Thanks, I understand now.
The debate will never end.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trevor</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trevor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">........................
It does not size like that, it squeezes in on a central mandrel.
..........................................................
</div></div>
Is this part a repy to or argument against any particular post?
</div></div>
Hi Rafael no it was not directed at anyone specific it was part of John Valentine post but I believe the debate of bushing over mandrel is common enough and the comment was worth leaving in.
</div></div>
Thanks, I understand now.
The debate will never end.
Re: Lee Collet Dies?
I broke an RCBS rockcrusher press with a Lee 8mm Collet neck die.
I adjusted the die until it took 100 pounds of force to toggle over the press at top dead center.
"If all else fails, read the directions."
RCBS sent me a new press with accessories.
The next year the rock crusher press got heavier.
A few years went by and I was comparing all my 223 dies for concentricity and case growth. The collet neck die won. Now I am buying Lee collet neck dies for 257RAI and 7mmRemMag.
I broke an RCBS rockcrusher press with a Lee 8mm Collet neck die.
I adjusted the die until it took 100 pounds of force to toggle over the press at top dead center.
"If all else fails, read the directions."
RCBS sent me a new press with accessories.
The next year the rock crusher press got heavier.
A few years went by and I was comparing all my 223 dies for concentricity and case growth. The collet neck die won. Now I am buying Lee collet neck dies for 257RAI and 7mmRemMag.
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