Legit 40x base?
- Thread starter fe1
- Start date
- Nov 3, 2010
- 10,423
- 22,757
Yes Sir that’s why I’m wondering if it’s legit
Definitely NOT REAL. Even the markings on both bases are wrong. I don't even think they're Redfield bases, they might be Leupold bases. Any markings on the sides of the bases? If they somehow have the Redfield "R" in crosshair on the fromt right side of the base, then someone faked the 40X marking on the bottom. If it's a Leupold base with that marking on the side, then that might be the way Leupold marked their bases on the bottom.
Just a quick glance, the markings are completely wrong for Redfield bases, the lightning cuts under the windage screws of the 40X base is wrong (shouldn't even have them), and even the direction of the milling machine marks on the rear bridge portion of the bases is completely wrong (marks should be perpendicular to the direction they're going on the bases in the photo). Taking all of that into consideration, I don't even think that these are Redfield made bases.
I don’t have them in hand yet but they are coming from a well known dealer.
I will update when I have them in hand.
Thanks for the reply
I hope that you didn't pay more than $10 per base, because that's about what they're worth. Were they sold to you as actual USMC M40 bases? Please provide us with some information about the deal, if you can. The more details we have, the more we can learn about what happened and how to prevent being taken advantage of as a potential customer. This information is important to all of us.
If the dealer blatantly ripped you off and charged hundreds of dollars or thousands of dollars (real Redfield 40X bases are $2,000 each) for these base, then they should be named. There's no reason for a customer who got swindled to protect the people who ripped them off. This is a constant thing in the gun collecting community, for some reason no one ever names dealers or gunsmiths who do something wrong. People need to know this information, so they no who to trust and who to avoid. I've only seen the victim buyer protect the perpetrator dealer/gunsmith in this area of collecting. No where else does this dynamic occur, and I find it extremely strange.
I was messaging with @fe1 and he gave me some details that aren't posted here, to include the company name. I promised not to mention the company in this thread until he does. They should be named, the blatantly and knowingly sold him fake shit. He paid hundreds of dollars for bases that are NOT M40 Redfield 40X and 700SA bases. This company has been brought up numerous times in conversations over the past few months. They've been fucking people left and right, just to make a buck! I'm sick of it and I'm going to be making a thread calling out the fucking scammers at this company! They're preying on members of this community and they know EXACTLY what they're doing!
If a company is offering you insanely rare and unique M40 parts right now at dirt cheap prices, don't fucking buy it! It's too good to be true! I spend a lot of time, money, and effort making reference threads with detailed descriptions and high resolution photos of various original parts, and I post this stuff on multiple gun forums. Trust my threads with these photos/info, and trust you own eyes! If it doesn't look like the parts I've posted photos of, then it's 99 times out of 100 fake or just not what the seller claims it to be. No one should be ripped off, there's detailed reference threads to look at AND I'm the easiest person in the world to contact and get information from! Seriously gents, CONTACT ME if you ever have any questions about anything someone is trying to sell you! I'm here to help all of you, I will break my fucking spine bending over backwards to help all of you, but you guys need to contact me and let me know what's going on.
@fe1 is not to blame for anything here, he's the victim and was straight up scammed. There are people out there who just want your money and they don't give a flying fuck about this community and doing the right thing. You are all targets that they've set their sights on and these scammers will tell you everything that you want to hear! We need to protect each other from these fucking assholes, and they need to be publicly called out.
I'm fucking pissed right now because I keep hearing horror stories about the shit this company has done. I will be making a post about this company.
If a company is offering you insanely rare and unique M40 parts right now at dirt cheap prices, don't fucking buy it! It's too good to be true! I spend a lot of time, money, and effort making reference threads with detailed descriptions and high resolution photos of various original parts, and I post this stuff on multiple gun forums. Trust my threads with these photos/info, and trust you own eyes! If it doesn't look like the parts I've posted photos of, then it's 99 times out of 100 fake or just not what the seller claims it to be. No one should be ripped off, there's detailed reference threads to look at AND I'm the easiest person in the world to contact and get information from! Seriously gents, CONTACT ME if you ever have any questions about anything someone is trying to sell you! I'm here to help all of you, I will break my fucking spine bending over backwards to help all of you, but you guys need to contact me and let me know what's going on.
@fe1 is not to blame for anything here, he's the victim and was straight up scammed. There are people out there who just want your money and they don't give a flying fuck about this community and doing the right thing. You are all targets that they've set their sights on and these scammers will tell you everything that you want to hear! We need to protect each other from these fucking assholes, and they need to be publicly called out.
I'm fucking pissed right now because I keep hearing horror stories about the shit this company has done. I will be making a post about this company.
That style of base is legit. Whether or not they come from one of the sources used for the M40 I do not.know.
I will say that while I understand why they used that system, it wasn’t the best choice. Reason being is the friction hold on the front ring had a tendency to wear. That causes loss of zero. My clone that I’m working on right now, won’t have these. It will have Weaver or Picatinny bases. I know it’s not historically accurate, but Im not into a rifle that will turn into a POS.
I will say that while I understand why they used that system, it wasn’t the best choice. Reason being is the friction hold on the front ring had a tendency to wear. That causes loss of zero. My clone that I’m working on right now, won’t have these. It will have Weaver or Picatinny bases. I know it’s not historically accurate, but Im not into a rifle that will turn into a POS.
From my research the windage screw slots should not be cut completely through the base.
Here's a few original Redfield 40X scope bases. I've seen them blued and refinished, what's important is the markings and lack of lightening cuts. The front bridge area on the underside can have 2 or 3 different types of milling (2 different milling types in this photo). Look at the direction of the machine marks on the middle base (with the original bluing), the marks around the 40X marking are perpendicular to the directions of the straight lines of the base. Hopefully that makes sense, but it's a feature to look for.
Also notice the specific font and size of the 40X stamp and the closed top of the 4. The 40X stamps on these real bases are smaller than the 40X on the base in question. The size and font of the 40X stamp is the very first thing thst I look at, and that can immediately tell me if the base is legit or not. Again, these are all very important features, and they should all be taken into consideration. Compare these features to the top base in the first post, and you can see that whatever that base is, it's not correct.
The last thing I'd like to add is that you guys can always send me photos via private message, and I'll look at your base before you buy it. I've never charged anyone for my time or knowledge, I do this because I want to help people avoid situations like this.
Also notice the specific font and size of the 40X stamp and the closed top of the 4. The 40X stamps on these real bases are smaller than the 40X on the base in question. The size and font of the 40X stamp is the very first thing thst I look at, and that can immediately tell me if the base is legit or not. Again, these are all very important features, and they should all be taken into consideration. Compare these features to the top base in the first post, and you can see that whatever that base is, it's not correct.
The last thing I'd like to add is that you guys can always send me photos via private message, and I'll look at your base before you buy it. I've never charged anyone for my time or knowledge, I do this because I want to help people avoid situations like this.
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As Smiley wrote on the other M40 Forum here in vintage. Don't confuse 40X with M40 The 40X is based off the 722, while the M40 is based off the 700. Similar reciever, but the bolt handles are different.
He did confirm 40x’s were the original prototype actions and sporter weight barrels. He stated it just a few days ago on the Facebook M40 Enthusiasts page !
@fe1 just texted me some photos of the scope base he received, I can confirm that it's a fake. There's at least 5 things wrong with it:
● Wrong 40X stamp font
● Wrong 40X stamp size
● No Redfield "R" stamp
● Wrong machining marks
● Shouldn't have the lightening cuts under the windage screws
@fe1 is going to reach out to this company via email this weekend, and we'll see how the company handles this issue next week when they return from the long weekend. We're not naming this company right now, but they will be publicly named as soon as @fe1 receives an email response from them, which we'll also publish. Customer relations can make or break a company (as with selling fake parts in the first place), so we're interested in seeing how they respond.
It's disgusting that something like this can happen, and this base is a blatant fake. As you can see by the invoice, the company claimed that it's real. The base isn't even marked with a company name or initial, which is also very strange. I wonder if this is a newly made fake just to sell to M40 collectors/clone builders.
Remember, I have published a lot of high quality photos and detailed descriptions about real USMC M40 Redfield 40X take-off scope bases and other M40 parts. Please use these reference threads to determine if a part that's for sale is legitimate. If you need to talk to me for further verification, please feel free to message me at anytime, I'm more than happy to help out anyone in our community! Right now I'm doing my best to help @fe1 with this fake base, and hopefully he'll receive a full refund. I'm going to look through my collection and see if there's anything useful that I can send him to use with his M40 clone build.
Here's the fake 40X scope base (photos received today from @fe1):
● Wrong 40X stamp font
● Wrong 40X stamp size
● No Redfield "R" stamp
● Wrong machining marks
● Shouldn't have the lightening cuts under the windage screws
@fe1 is going to reach out to this company via email this weekend, and we'll see how the company handles this issue next week when they return from the long weekend. We're not naming this company right now, but they will be publicly named as soon as @fe1 receives an email response from them, which we'll also publish. Customer relations can make or break a company (as with selling fake parts in the first place), so we're interested in seeing how they respond.
It's disgusting that something like this can happen, and this base is a blatant fake. As you can see by the invoice, the company claimed that it's real. The base isn't even marked with a company name or initial, which is also very strange. I wonder if this is a newly made fake just to sell to M40 collectors/clone builders.
Remember, I have published a lot of high quality photos and detailed descriptions about real USMC M40 Redfield 40X take-off scope bases and other M40 parts. Please use these reference threads to determine if a part that's for sale is legitimate. If you need to talk to me for further verification, please feel free to message me at anytime, I'm more than happy to help out anyone in our community! Right now I'm doing my best to help @fe1 with this fake base, and hopefully he'll receive a full refund. I'm going to look through my collection and see if there's anything useful that I can send him to use with his M40 clone build.
Here's the fake 40X scope base (photos received today from @fe1):
Attachments
AS the invoice says, they are NOT M40 bases. Even though the style looks like it.
As an aside I would not use any M40/Redfield bases. Not based on my experience in the military, rather based on my experience as a civilian. Note that I have mentioned in numerous posts about the failures of these bases. Clamped is far better than the friction hold of these pieces of crap. I have no idea why they championed them. I know they are original, but they suck! Again my experience as a civilian, not military. There were other bases and rings that were superior. Also note that due to failures they took to brazing/welding them. This is not necessary had they used better rings that had l-R clamping ability.
I know these are original, but I won't use the pieces of shit! Standard Weavers are a far better base.
As an aside I would not use any M40/Redfield bases. Not based on my experience in the military, rather based on my experience as a civilian. Note that I have mentioned in numerous posts about the failures of these bases. Clamped is far better than the friction hold of these pieces of crap. I have no idea why they championed them. I know they are original, but they suck! Again my experience as a civilian, not military. There were other bases and rings that were superior. Also note that due to failures they took to brazing/welding them. This is not necessary had they used better rings that had l-R clamping ability.
I know these are original, but I won't use the pieces of shit! Standard Weavers are a far better base.
Where does it say it’s not a M40 base?
And further more if people want a M40 clone that is what is preferred!
Well we all have our opinions don’t we?
I know and have plenty of experience with that type of base as well as many others.
I have never heard of anyone having issues with it.
To be fair
I’m not in a combat situation so that probably make a difference. js
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Dude, it's a simple fact that the front ring retention is with friction, not actually clamping. That was one of the biggest reasons so many M40's were unserviceable within two years of them going to VietNam. My experience with them is numerous guns that people would say in our shooting circles that their rifle wouldn't hold zero. Recoil wears the friction points enough that the base won't hold zero.
If you want a museum piece...Get the original. If you want a rifle to hold up shooting, do what the rest of the military did and move on from that base...like a picatinny.
Dude, what are you even talking about?! The invoice straight up says that this is a "Redfield M40 mounts." Additionally, the owner of the company that sold @fe1 this scope base told him on the phone, and in emails, that this was a 100% original Redfield 40X scope base that was used on the 1966 era USMC M40's. The people from the company swore up and down in phone calls and emails that it was an original USMC M40 base. They are wrong! This is not an original USMC M40 Redfield 40X base, they flat out lied about it or are so incredibly ignorant that they don't know what a real issued USMC M40 Redfield 40X scope base is.
In one of the emails, the owner of the company writes, "I have everything original and also new parts for every Remington Military Rifle made between 1965 and today." So, to recap, the company owner himself told @fe1 on the phone that he was buying an original USMC M40 Redfield 40X scope base, and he even said in an email message that he has original Remington military rifle parts going back to 1965, which is one year before Remington built and delivered the 700 M40 sniper rifles to the Marine Corps. @fe1 was under the complete assumption that he was buying a real USMC M40 Redfield 40X scope base, and what he received was a fake. It's that fucking clear cut.
The OP was taken advantage of, and he was sold a fake base. There is no disputing any of this, and there's far more to it than what's on the invoice. The invoice straight up says that it's an Redfield M40 base, and that's not what @fe1 received. This isn't an M40 base, and it's not even a Redfield base! It was sold as 1 very specific item, and it turned out to be a fake. I'm not sure how to break down the situation any more than this.
Also, why do you keep bringing up other bases/mounts? People building exact M40 clones don't give a shit about any other bases/mounts. We know that there's problems with the original system, no body here is trying to refute you on that fact! The failures of the original Redfield base/ring system is very well documented, and that's what led the Corps to get an improved scope mount for the M40A1. We all know this, no one is arguing that these problems don't exist. Even though @fe1 hasn't seen the failures himself, the rest of us know that they occur.
@fe1 is trying to build an M40 clone to original 1966 USMC specs, or at least the closest that he can get to it. It's a clone build, and he wants Redfield parts for the build. Why is this so difficult for you to understand? He doesn't want anything else, he wants the correct parts for an M40 build, nothing else. YOU were the one who first brought up the Redfield base/ring system being a piece of shit system, and YOU are the one continuing to bang that drum in almost every single one of your posts. The OP wants Redfield parts, you don't. That's how it is, nothing more, nothing less. The quality of the Redfield system was never part of this conversation until you brought it up, and for some reason continue to talk about it.
You've been around here long enough to know what clone building is, so I'm really surprised to even see you try to bring this up in this thread. Was your account hijacked by Biden or something? That's how utterly incoherent your posts in this thread look. I've never seen you off the mark in a conversation, ever. So this is pretty surprising coming for your account. And yet nothing you're posting in this thread makes any sense or is even relevant to the discussion. Just drop this nonsense already.
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This is what @fe1 has been trying to tell you this entire time! That's exactly why he wants the Redfield parts! It won't be museum quality, but it's an M40 clone nonetheless
Nobody gives a shit what you think . You are out of your league here and looking more foolish with each post .
Did you know cloners will max out their credit cards for something that was abused and beat up over something shiny and new?
Yep, used and beat up parts are the best! And I know that you have some of those items too, lol. Look at what my original Navy SEAL used Mk13 Mod 0 stocks are now selling for! I just help broker a sale for an original Mk13 Mod 0 painted stock kit, that kit sold for $6,100! I originally sold these kits for about $1,650 each, and the beat up painted kits are now selling for many thousands of dollars more than what collectors originally paid for them. History matters to some people, even if other people just don't care. "It's just a tool." Blah blah blah. Historical provenance actually means something and that will drive prices.
I have seen this. I know John Kopeck and knew Sterling Fenn two of THE top experts on Colt Single Action Revolvers. A Model 1873 SAA in 45 Colt with provenance to Little Bighorn brings BIG bucks. I’ve had the privilege to see and handle several.
