Let's solve this savage dbm problem

[spoon063]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

ok so i think i'm half way there, and i'll post my crappy cell pics when i get home. i tried reforming the top of the FAL mag to just work by itself into a center-feed... it worked as far as fitting and feeding, then i ran into the issue of the rear catch on the top of the mag. after trying numerous things and wasting an ar-15 for donor metal i gave up on that. I cut the top 1/3 off the FAL to mate it with the stock 4 rd, but the follower wouldn't work right from either due to the stupid rear brace the FAL mag had in it. so i broke out the spot-welds in the rear brace off (the inside of the FAL) with the two 1/4" indents, and now the 2 have almost the same OAL inside. I'm working on grooving the follower right now from the 4rd to work all the way through with the FAL spring. from what i can see so far, my mission is going to be 99% succesful... less the 1% being that its going to be roughly an 18rd mag at this point

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

hey yeah, cut it flush on the top, run the fal up in there, let the follower push the rounds up into the savage feed lips...

 

[Captain Moroni]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

Sorry I haven't read this whole thread I just skimmed a bit. About a year and a half ago I got the V bull and really like it. They make it for both action screw spacing long and short action. I just checked them out and they say coming soon maybe they are updating their website.

 

[spoon063]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

vbull doesn't work with the new bolt release

 

[spoon063]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

some test fitting

the 4rd has a step in it, so the fal mag needs to be step cut as well

the spot welds that help the brace in the FAL mag

Stock follower notched for the FAL mag

 

[stiletto raggio]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

That looks awesome. If it could be refined and cut to various lengths (10, 15, 20) and sold at or under $100, I think it would sell very well.

 

[spoon063]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

Thank you. Yeah I sort of just jumped in to this one to just make it happen. I left it really tall in case I needed to re-cut it. I still need to make the guide today that will make it a more solid fit. There's a rough 1.5-2mm? gap around the base of it (the slack that the bottom plate of the 4rd took up).

 

[Captain Moroni]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: spoon063</div><div class="ubbcode-body">vbull doesn't work with the new bolt release </div></div>

There I go talking out of my ass again.

 

[snipedogg]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

You can make the FAL mag work without using the factory mag. I'm going to do one I just need to order some and I'll show you how. Where'd you order your FAL mags?

 

[spoon063]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

yeah, i almost had the FAL working by itself. like i said, i got too frustrated with the rear catch and left it at that.

i got mine from http://www.keepshooting.com/ and it got here FAST. it said used but it looked brand new as well

i can assure you of this, this first one is going to be a crappy looking trial run, but at this point i'm going for function not esthetics

 

[snipedogg]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

I'm gonna order a couple I think. I can show you how to easily modify it to fit your gun. It won't fit all Savages though, that is the problem. The variances in the factory bottom metal won't allow it to fit in all of them but who really cares. It isn't something that can cheaply be mass produced, but at least you have it for your gun and other people can see how it's done so they can do it as well.

 

[spoon063]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

well im at a wall. the two are welded together, follower fits and slides through freely. but as soon as i load it up, after 3 rounds, the rounds get jammed up and wont feed properly. i have to bang it around to get the rounds to come to the top. the internal walls are completely smooth. i cant figure it out at all...

 

[snipedogg]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

It's because you have too many cuts in the follower. It gives it too much room to not slide evenly so it gets caught on the wall of the magazine once in gets a certain amount of weight on it. Don't ask me how I know all of this, just trust me that it's a pain in the dick and your best bet it to hold out until I pick up a couple mags and I'll show you how to do it.

 

[spoon063]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

i think you're completely right. I appreciate the help.

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

make a follower thats shaped like a few rounds on top or cut off more of the savage mag. cut another 1/2" or 3/4" off so your just using the top most feed lips part of it and the tab part to lock it in. that way you dont have to modify the follower to fit the savage mag. use a domed follower. but cut off more of the savage factory mags body and use more of the FAL mag just further up in there. just enough of the savage to lock in and fit the factory DBM

 

[Cascade Precision]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

Sad news. Just heard from Accurate Mag that their mags will not fit HS Precision stocks. But, you can buy their bottom metal and then a 10 round mag will work.

Would really like to see what it takes to just modify an FAL mag and make it work. :grabs some popcorn and lurks:

 

[spoon063]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

snipedogg, get some mags yet? I didn't take into consideration that whitetail season was the wrong time to take on this project.

 

[chris19210]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

Stock: 200
DBM: 250
Milling 50

Total: 500

Your right I should have probably done an extensive search to figure out what it looks like on various stocks...however, all the dbm i've seen prior to ordering this one have fit flush and had a clean and crisp look to them.

So as I said I wasn't blown away with the results...some people are well suited by them some aren't. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I was just posting for the purpose of educating others who might make the same mistake as me. Everybody has different expectations so we can't have a strictly biased thread or people are misinformed.

Just my .02--I responded to a gentlemans pm about posting a picture and I will as soon as I get the chance to take one and upload it.

 

[chris19210]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

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[AXEMAN]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

if that stock is wood laminate or some wood product, its an easy fix. really its about what most look like and why a few havent done it. but the people that use it love it. have you thought about taking a rasp, a file and a sander to that B&C? most people here would just do that i think or not worry about it. i can see why you might not be happy with the fit. it bothered me enough to call and ask jeff after looking at several installs. but wood is forgiving. wood can be shaped easier than steel and Jeff didnt make the stock. its not the DBM thats at fault, it works as promised. its the stock. he cannot make a DBM that fits every stock out there. but for yours, my first thought is an oscillating spindle sander. lay that stock on its side and secured in a jig and a few passes will bring the bottom to the CDI, then contour the sides. really, its what, 1/4" of material. give it a shot. i think what you will find is most people want it to function 100% and thats what they say it does. if you really want that "custom fit & finish" thats gonna require extra work from a smith or yourself.

 

[MitchInOR]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

So which stock does the cdi look good in? I think people make an investment into their firearms and they want them to look as good as they shoot. After all, dbm's for all the other rifle brands pictured on this sight sit flush with all the stocks pictured. Chris, it could be worse. You could have been the guy that sent his $800 McMillan in and got it back like that.

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

same deal though. just fit the mcmillan the same way, and use a patch kit to fix the work or see what mcmillan says about it fitting or altering the stock. i dont know what jeffs base stock was for that DBM. maybe some fit better than others, but none were flush so far. i saw the chips in the other guys stock, thats what gelcoat does when milled. thats what the CDI looks like in other A5 installs. its all stuff everybody has seen if you did the research. chosing to have cdi buy a new stock was a low blow moron move. jeff has class for doing it after mcmillan himself offered to fix it. i think everybody elses fit is part of the issue possibly. all the stocks were designed for the 700 action im guessing. they fit its DBM perfect, stocks fit it perfect. im guessing the rest are reinletted to fit the savage action. its not that its non standard. its just thats the first shot at the DBM, im guessing it was built from one rifle, it fit that well and when you try other stocks it throws it off. jeff would need an a5, an HS, a B&C a stockade, he would need to change all the exterior milling. or the stocks would all need made the same bottom profile. then your looking at factory savage stocks made for their factory DBM and a certain mag size fitting flush and that mag system being different than the CDI so who to line it up. the HS has an aluminum block, the A5 is gonna need pillars, its gonna get hairy.

chris19210, can you see if the CDI fits the factory stock flush? do you still have that around? just curious

 

[spoon063]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

so say i go and buy a b&c stock, isn't my stock bottom metal supposed to drop in?

 

[chris19210]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

its drop in if you have a mill and knowledge lol...

 

[chris19210]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

I would personally suggest a stock from stockade his bottom side of the stock is flat so this would most likely be less of a problem and if you go with the money saver stock you won't be concerned with sanding. I'm not saying the bell and carlson wouldn't look good without work because it can with a bit of time. I just had the expectations of it fitting flush is all.

Actually if you developed a magazine with a different catch depth you wouldn't have to recess one as deeply but I don't have the equipment needed to do this properly.

 

[snipedogg]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

B&C doesn't offer an inlet for Savage. They are only available for blind mag. That is why the CDI won't fit perfectly. I'm pretty sure the factory DBM would look exactly the same if you inlet that stock for it. You can only place the bottom metal relative to where the action sits.

 

[chris19210]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

I junked the factory stock. I would doubt it though, it's a pretty narrow stock so I would suspect it would look kinda off but I can't confirm that without having it.

 

[spoon063]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

so wait... choate is THE only stock available in a 4.4 spacing, detacheable magazine, trigger gaurd bolt-release compatible style?

 

[chris19210]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

Not for sure but they are the most mentioned one. I'm just no a huge fan of them for some reason.

 

[MitchInOR]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

The Rayhills (Stockade) also make a detachable AICS mag system that appears to use the factory trigger guard. Not pretty by Badger standards but he quoted me $200 installed for it.

 

[Cascade Precision]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

I am working on making an FAL mag fit. I dont have all my pics here yet, but I have some. I started by cutting 2 inches off the top of the mag. That is where I figured I would still have an easy ten rounds in the mag, but not so long as to be in the way.

I am going to cut the back rib down, weld in a stop to lock onto the bottom metal, do the same thing up front and make a round cut to allow rounds to feed out properly. I will bend in the feed lips so it feeds out the center. The difficulty is making the follower work properly. I am thinking about forming the FAL follower to look like the Savage. I am also going to add longer fingers to the bottom of the follower to keep it from tilting inside the mag and hanging up.

I want to play with load length, so I cut out the spot weld that holds the spacer in the back of the mag. I am thinking this is going to work.

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchinOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Rayhills (Stockade) also make a detachable AICS mag system that appears to use the factory trigger guard. Not pretty by Badger standards but he quoted me $200 installed for it. </div></div>

mitch, didnt you show me a few pictures of that once??

 

[Cascade Precision]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

Next I cut down the mag to the proper length of feed lips. I still have to cut the back, but I could not find my razor discs for my dremel.

Also for consideration: Does the Magazine NEED to be centerfeed? I have looked and I have thought about this for a while. I see no reason why you could not just use a stagger feed magazine. Am I missing something? Or is this a subject already covered in great detail somewhere else?

 

[spoon063]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

the stock bottom metal is narrow and will only allow center feed to slide up in far enough to catch a round on the bolt. i tried bypassing it as well. this is how i first tried making it as well, and ALMOST had it until i messed up the rear catch. now that you mention it (i have given up since my last pics) i bet if i put extensions under my follower so it doesn't tip, it will work. i'll try it this coming weekend again

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

can someone try this? cutting the savage mag so that as little of the top is left, just the feed lips maybe, and grafting that to the top of the fal? or can you reform, bend or shape the fal mag to be just like the top of the savage mag? that way we get the feed lips of the savage but the fal mag will just use its follower all the way up to the savage lips. does that make sense? i should have picked one up at the gunshow but i didnt get my lazy ass out there

 

[Cascade Precision]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AXEMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">can someone try this? cutting the savage mag so that as little of the top is left, just the feed lips maybe, and grafting that to the top of the fal? or can you reform, bend or shape the fal mag to be just like the top of the savage mag? that way we get the feed lips of the savage but the fal mag will just use its follower all the way up to the savage lips. does that make sense? i should have picked one up at the gunshow but i didnt get my lazy ass out there </div></div>

Axeman, I am going to reform the mag I cut down to match the feed lips of the Savage. I was going to cut and graft the savage mag, but if I cut mine, I would not have a mag for my rifle. I still want to shoot!

I am going to finish my cuts on Wednesday, possibly form them into position later that day, maybe friday if'n I can get to my shop across the hill (99 miles away).

I will post up as soon as I know if reformation works!

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

bump just to keep it fresh

 

[Rainier42]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

Has anyone approached Savage about making/selling larger DBM? I would think they'd have a good market for these.

 

[RTO]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

Spoon, you mentioned a Choate stock, I have one laying around here somewhere. I was considering ordering a CDI anyway. Were you saying you think it would work on the Choate stock? I was planning on using it on my McMillan A5 but after reading this thread Im starting to think that may not be the best bet. I do have a Choate for this rifle as well that isnt bad just very heavy. Curious why you think that it would fit the Choate or if that was indeed what you were saying?

 

[spoon063]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

what i meant was that the savage 4.4" model with the trigger gaurd bolt release (as far as my understanding) will only drop into the choate. i'm sure the a5 can accept it as well with inletting. i just meant which stock is a direct drop-in replacement. unfortuantely (as embarrassing as it is), i'm using a custom-modified oem stock still.

 

[spoon063]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

bump for any updates?

 

[Cascade Precision]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

Yeah, I have an update.

FAL Mag is narrower than the bottom metal, so it slides from side to side. I have to add a collar to the mag to keep it in the happy place. Even then, the mag may need additional "body" to keep leverage from moving the mag in the mag well.

Next, the feed lips. Ah, the feed lips, little bastards. Hard to duplicate for sure. more difficult to get smooth enough to not be grabby on the brass cases and keep them from getting scratched.

I think it is best, really and truly, to do what has already been done and graft the FAL mag to the Savage mag, but make our own follower out of micarta or some other easily formed material. Just make some tabs/fingers to keep the mag from rolling inside. I think it can easily be done. I am going to work on a follower, but I am also going to order a new mag so I can work on it.

If the gentleman that has already welded the FAL mag to the Savage mag wants to donate it to good use, I would gladly accept it and if I can get a follower to work, send it back so he is not out anything.

 

[spoon063]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

That's no problem. I'm willing to put up my mags to be used.

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

hey. look at this. out of touch has this down under in Australia. he said it was $200 there. waiting to get the capacity

 

[TP4]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

Its even smiling

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

i thought that too, lol

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

check it

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2259598&#Post2259598

straight SSS knock off. i can see why they use a smiley face. id be laughing all the way to the bank. il race you, lol

 

[juliomorris]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

I have been looking into getting the box cast, but everyone wants a large order. SSS sent me an email earlier this month saying they are out sourcing the casting so they can keep them on the shelves in the future but who knows whether you can believe them I have been given 3 differant dates for my last order.

 

[Rainier42]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AXEMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hey. look at this. out of touch has this down under in Australia. he said it was $200 there. waiting to get the capacity

</div></div>

Anyone know if they ship to the US?

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Let's solve this savage dbm problem

the aussies said it was $200. there is contact info in the link i posted above. how does 200 au compare to US dollars?? for 200 x 2 you could have cdi + 2 or 3 mags?

cast or milled, surely they could be done and sold everywhere so quantity should be no issue for whoever can produce them. there are alot of savage rifles out there