Rifle Scopes Leupold customer service experience

[Lowlight]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: overgunned</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nope. It's just that they act like they are the only people on earth who knows what a quality scope is and how to use it. </div></div>

LOL... B/c they have a different opinion than you? </div></div>

No because we inject fact and experience, not brush off statements, like I have "owned' 36+ so I know... he fails to understand, ownership doesn't imply competence ? You can own something and barely ever use it, doesn't give you license to understand it, that happens all the time, it just is.

 

[overgunned]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

I see plenty of NF also. More every day.

What do you mean they no longer use the Made in USA label? On their gold ring scopes. Mine all say it. Every one. We are not talking about green ring spotting scopes and binoculars here, are we? I thought not.

Tell me what Gold Ring scopes/products have Chinese parts. Inject some "facts" here.....

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

Leupolds present scopes, not yours that you bought umpteen years ago, are not Made in THE US

 

[MinorDamage]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: overgunned</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd like to know what parts you believe to be sourced from China.</div></div>

You are about to open up one heck of a can of worms with that statement. There was a nice thread started by renowned gunsmith Terry Cross a while ago that voiced his frustration that Leupolds were no longer marked "Made in the USA". There is only one explanation for that and it invalidates any further arguments on your part to the contrary.

Josh

 

[overgunned]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

What ones? I've plenty of both new and old.....

 

[JRose]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

You strike me as a fella who will deny facts that contradict any of your comfy delusions...

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

Go look at the box, where it once said it, it no longer does, as well the glass is all Asia there...

Post of picture of it... its been discussed on here time and time again, huge threads about it.

 

[overgunned]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

How about a fella who has asked the same question 3 times now and gotten NO answer from the so-called "experts".......

 

[JRose]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: overgunned</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about a fella who has asked the same question 3 times now and gotten NO answer from the so-called "experts"....... </div></div>

Maybe not the answer you would like...

 

[overgunned]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

So because it's been dicussed, it's fact? Much like because I've owned 36+ Leupolds doesn't mean I know how to use one, right?

You guys are killin' me.

I've called Leupold several times and inquired about this issue. Recently, also. Every time I've been told the same thing. Other than the glass, the parts are made in house, in Oregon. I'm only talking about scopes such as the VX3s and Mark 4s. Not the green ring garbage.

Am I being lied to? I don't know. It's possible.......

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

What question ?

Like your experience level, the competitions you see "more leupolds' at ?

Questions like those... you 've ignored.

I no longer have any Leupold scopes in my Stable, so I can't just go pull one out, but do a search, people are posting it every day here and have been since before you were a member.

You have 36+ post a new one or a box that shows where it says Made in USA.

Cause I just looked and can't find it any where on any box... so pull one of yours out, click a picture and show us where it says Made in USA on it ?

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

Absolutely, it's no longer marked that way, they will couch the answer and tell you one thing, and then describe how the rules say they can no longer use the MADE in USA tag... which we all know isn't true, because NF has Made in USA right across the top of the F1s and the 1-4Xs ... so they can but Leupold can't.

 

[overgunned]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

You doubting my experience level is funny, at best. I've owned over 200 rifles also, but they just sit here. Don't know how to shoot a one.

Just because EVERY product they make is not Made in USA any more, does NOT mean NONE of them are. I'm gonna leave it at that. As it's past my bed time.

You MAY consider that there are others in the world who know of guns/scopes as well. Cuz there are.......

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

So Ken.. what comps, who you shooting with... I will go back and find where people who called have been told they no longer say Made in USA on them because of rules to percentages... etc. yet we all know you can still get the Made in USA tag.

Big deal you own over 200 rifles, more money than sense is a common thing, doesn't mean you know what you doing, just means you have deep pockets.

Go pull one of them out, show me the Made in USA on it... they aren't even sold or marketed that way anymore... just look, not a word about it

http://www.tactical-store.com/printable-ts-lu-rs-mark4-custom-eecba.html

You would think that would be an important point, but it is missing...

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: overgunned</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So because it's been dicussed, it's fact? Much like because I've owned 36+ Leupolds doesn't mean I know how to use one, right?

You guys are killin' me.

I've called Leupold several times and inquired about this issue. Recently, also. Every time I've been told the same thing. Other than the glass, the parts are made in house, in Oregon. I'm only talking about scopes such as the VX3s and Mark 4s. Not the green ring garbage.

Am I being lied to? I don't know. It's possible....... </div></div>

You are on the verge of fan boy ism.....just because you own 36+ Leupolds. Answer me this, would you be upset if you dropped your rifle on to your Leupold scope and be madder than hell if you got a ding or dent in the objective? Also there is a bit of a difference in a manicured range, that is static, and not real fast paced, and controlled slow fire. That alone tells me that your 36+ scopes dont go through much, so in all reality since yours are holding up to being gently placed on the bipod, and carefully loaded and fired. Mine on the other hand, get banged off Humvee doors, dropped, scratched, painted on, and the get run hard and put up wet. See the difference?

Your scopes have to sole responsibility to make you shoot your "X" or not, mine have the responsibility of lives.

Also I would tell you that all of my stuff was machined and made in house in Oregon too. But just cuz I tell you that dont mean its true. Most of the Leupold parts are made over seas in China and Japan. Glass is Japanese IIRC, the internal are Japanese, the illumination controls are Japanese, so the only thing machined in house in Oregon is the main tube....seems like a whole shit ton of that stuff is made "In the USA" right?

 

[overgunned]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

I understand what you are saying. Percentages keep them from such. But it does not mean that none of them are. The glass is not USA. I know this. But what exactly do you think they do/make in that big plant in Oregon that's full of bar stock?

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

Here is the link to their site... show me where it says anywhere "Made in USA" on one of their tactical scopes ?

http://www.leupold.com/tactical/products/

You can't find it anywhere on their site... contrast that with the NF site and their F1 scope

http://nightforceoptics.com/nightforcescopes/SCOPES_OVERVIEW/3_5-15x50_F1/3_5-15x50_f1.html

Look at the pages... see the difference

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

And the NF compact line

http://nightforceoptics.com/nightforcesc...t1-4x24nxs.html

I see an American Flag proudly saying Made in USA

Leupold, not so much...

 

[BigBrother]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

LL, I'm telling you man, to save everyone time and bandwidth, invest an afternoon and figure out a way - a permanent survey, a google doc spreadsheet, *something*, where people can log all the scopes they've used, length of use, shots per year, and any issues experienced if any. Preferably with a color code on the scope so you can easily eyeball and see the reds and greens.

If we had a good, objective database that showed both the successful and unsuccessful usage of scopes out there, it would give us a wide base that would probably be referenced over time by other sources and could become quite definitive. Maybe not exactly scientifically rigorous , but much better than this constant dick beating.

We have a thread like this once a week and it's getting nowhere. Everyone obviously cares enough to keep posting roughly the same opinion, so maybe enough is enough. A repository like this would be huge. Maybe, like with selling, implement a minimum post count to enter data.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

Oh look what I found

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Leupold uses foreign sourced components for some parts of Golden Ring products, primarily lenses. This is because at this time, there is no American manufacturer that can supply the quantity of high quality lenses that Leupold needs for its annual Golden Ring Optics production. Leupold’s lens systems are designed at Leupold, by American optical engineers, in its state-of -the-art optics lab and then procured from outside vendors who must meet stringent quality standards. </div></div>

Some of the components, primarily lenses, not exclusively lenses,

Couched language there 200 rifles

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

More

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Incoming parts are carefully inspected in our testing facility before they are accepted into the assembly process. Incidentally, all major optics producers worldwide acquire some or all of their glass from the same sources as Leupold. Some of these sources are located domestically, some are European, and some are Asian. Leupold has acquired its lenses this way for over 50 years.</div></div>

Incoming parts... not incoming lenses... parts, plural. Lenses alone don't lose you the Made in USA tag...

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

Could "Overgunned" in all reality be "Undergunned" in this discussion, the 36+ aint holding much water no more........

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

Like Big Brother says, we've had this discussion too many times, it's really not fair... not to mention I have mad google fu...

Still like to know what comps have the majority of users sporting Leupolds ?

 

[overgunned]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

I told ya, i knew about the lenses being out sourced. They told me that much on the phone.

It states, "All Leupold parts are designed, machined, assembled, and tested in our Beaverton, Oregon plant....." Here:
http://www.leupold.com/corporate/about-us/americas-optics-authority/

Apparently, that is as far as it goes now. Not what I was told on the phone, though.

They still employ some 650 Americans and remain a solid value, IME. I've had troubles with a bunch of "lesser brands", such as Burris, Bushnell,....Also owned some of the "better brands" such as Zeiss and Swaro. Never found them to warrant the higher price tag. You start talking about USO and S&B, Premier and such, you are talking about a completely different ballgame, at a much higher price.

For the price, what scope is better than Leupold? Do you feel there are any?

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

For the price, what scope do i think is better than a Leupold....a Nightforce any day of the week and twice on Sundays. But you dont own 36+ of those so how could there be anything better than your prized Leupold?

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

the New Super Snipers are better, only not as many choices... the Vortex are definitely better featured and well worth the money.

personally I don't even consider Leupold, I stick to those that are proven performers and I don;t deviate, other than the ones I am sent to look at, like the Bushnells, Weavers, Vortex, etc... no reason for me to even consider anything else anymore.

 

[overgunned]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

So you consider Nightforce and Leupold to be in the same price category?

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

Nightforce NXS 1300-1500 bucks

Leupold Mk4 is roughly the same....both are SFP and black in color....so yeah i find them roughly the same bracket

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

I consider NF and Leupold to be direct competitors.. and once you look at the Mk 4 LR/T you are talking only a few hundred dollars difference... a maxed out Leupold is $1200 compared to $1500 for a Lower end NF...

But I would consider a NF before any LS, the few dollars saved is a waste of time if the thing has the potential of going back even once.

Dollar for Dollar -- what you get for what you pay, NF is the best scope on the market.

 

[overgunned]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

Weavers track better than anything in their price range IMO. Run 2 T-36s. They work. Wouldn't ever consider buying a Burris or Bushnell again. Have broken a half dozen. The only SS I had sucked. Mushy turrets, marginal glass. Older model, not new.

Have a new Viper. Only used it 2x. seems good. Eye relief not the best, though.

Unless I want to spend a whole lot more money, Leupold is where I have arrived......

 

[overgunned]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

I like NF optics. Lots of them at our range.....

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

Spending more is always smarter once you move up your game.

I would rather have 20 NF, 15 S&B or 10 Hensoldts than one LS ... the difference is staggering

 

[overgunned]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

I've been wanting a new NF lately. 5-22x50 is all I need. I'm old fashioned, a duplex or target dot and target turrets are all I use. Don't need/like/want fancy reticles......

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

so then why hang out here, we are all about fancy reticles, mils and how to use your scope to its full potential... anyone can point and pull the trigger. why have a reticle at all, just fill the FOV with the target and let it rip

Its like we said, using the scope to its full potential, and knowing that means is very important, which is why we see things others don't.

more to using a scope than what you are doing.

 

[overgunned]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

If you like fancy reticles, that's fine with me. I seem to hit stuff just fine with the simple ones. Fine duplex or target dot is all I feel I need for what I do.

I do like fancy guns, though.......

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

im out, this conversation is on the verge of full on stupid....good night.

 

[overgunned]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

By the way, Frank. My damn password screwed up again. Every 6 months or so, like clockwork. Still ain't figgered out why. Was able to fix it myself this time. Usually, it won't let me.

Not to change the subject......

 

[overgunned]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

Nightforce is the only scope made that works. All 36 of my Leupolds working correctly is a fluke, and must be because I do not use them enough. They are made in china, by people you could blindfold with a strand of dental floss, that are paid in fish heads. Happy now? Goodnight......

 

[AK10mm]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

As far as the stellar warranty on these:



Leupold® Mark 4®, Mark 2®, Mark AR™, and Tactical Optical Warranty

Warranties on Leupold® Mark 4®, Mark 2®, Mark AR™, and Tactical optical products vary depending on use and other factors. For more information regarding the warranties on these products, contact Leupold at 1-800-LEUPOLD or (503) 526-1400.

 

[pupdawg]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And not to beat a dead horse anymore than we have, if you read the issues people bring up, it's not the product or the company 10 years ago or more, but the company in the last 10 years that is the problem.

The move to more overseas manufacturing, namely China, the increase in price, without the matching upgrade in the product lines. The out of step changes to the product, and just generally the company has rested on it is laurels and accomplishments from the early 1990s. It's depending on its past reputation to carry it, exactly like you are doing. It's expecting customers of the past to carry it into the future regardless of the fact they have not been keeping up with it's own standard.

There are some very prominent and experienced people who were fully on board with Team Leupold who no longer use or support them. The issues are real, and valid, sure anyone can find a stories of scopes that work great for them, any one can, but moving forward, it's not the same. Go out and buy a new one and see if it matches up to your 11 year old model... I bet you find it doesn't. </div></div>

This is why I no longer own or will own any Leupold product EVER. NF at the least for me... they don't have fucked up motives and want to work WITH the shooting community (hunter, casual, or tactical).

Leupold basically relies on their name to carry their foolish marketing BS. Once they changed ALL their "regular tactical line" of scopes over to the "mark 4" name shortly after they got the contract was too far... not to mention how long tactical shooters had asked them to match reticle/ turrets and they constantly refused and ignored... so in that time other companies picked up the ball and now... only NOW does leupold offer matching reticle/turrets when the train already left the station 3 years ago. Also the BS Leupold pulled with premier reticles it just stinks.

I strongly agree with what Lowlight and Deadly said earlier and want to add that it's the COMPANY itself that isn't worth shit and that reflects in their products, actions and motives. I laugh when new shooters tell me "I heard Leupold is good" I look at them and say "FUCK NO"... "buy a NF or something else"... and such is the way of the walk.

On a side note to Lowlight... You should just sticky something so new members don't post BS like this anymore... It's getting to be like "Counter sniper scopes".

 

[BCP]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: overgunned</div><div class="ubbcode-body">USO and S&B, Premier and such, you are talking about a completely different ballgame, at a much higher price.

For the price, what scope is better than Leupold? Do you feel there are any? </div></div>

A SFP nightforce 5.5-22 is 1600 brand new, that compares to a 1300 6.5-20 mark 4 SFP, a leupold 3.5-10 is 1100-1200, that compares with 1100 for a USO 10X, then there's the valdada 2.5-10 FFP and 3-18X FFP for 1100 to 1500 respectively, all of those scopes have better everything at a similar price point. Now, occasionally you can get one for less than those prices - a friend of mine got an 8.5-25 TMR for 1150? I think - but otherwise that is what I would expect to pay.

edit: Also look at the nightforce compact line and if you're willing to settle for SFP and 1/4moa turrets Sightron scopes have good glass and tracking for less than Leupold too. And then there's bushnell 4200 FFP line, I haven't heard a lot but 4200 glass is very good at that price point and with mil knobs and a mil reticle I would take one over a more expensive scope without those features.

Now, leupold's newer stuff does show promise - but I haven't heard anything yet so we'll just have to wait and see.

Made in USA? The old days of Redfield vs Leupold as the two best made-in-USA scope manufacturers are gone.

I like leupold for a hunting scope - typically I look for older vari-x II and III as well as the M8 ones - but not for a "tactical" scope. They generally cost too much and don't have the features I want.

 

[BCP]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Still like to know what comps have the majority of users sporting Leupolds ?
</div></div>

Leupold sponsored comps?

Also there should be a sticky in regards to the Leupold threads that seem to pop up every week.

 

[overgunned]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

The Leupold scopes I see in competitions mostly are VX3 LR/T models and Competition models of fixed power. All are cheaper than any NF made, being in the $800-$1000 dollar range. My VX3 LR/T, 30mm, SFP 8.5-25x50 runs $834 at Brunos. $969 @ SWFA. It is in the shop getting a reticle change and M1s added to it. When all is said and done, I'll still only have $1000 tied up in it. $600 dollars less than the 5.5-20 NF I would like to buy.....

 

[MinorDamage]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

Google-fu

overgunned,

If you do have 36 Leupolds in the stable you should have put a couple thousand on each to verify tracking and stability. You note that you rarely get out to ranges where a canted reticle might REALLY show up. You are attempting to refute the first hand knowledge of a rifle instructor at Rifles Only that sees them come through, and fail, on a regular basis?

Maybe you should take a class down there and let Frank check it for you. He does a sweet drop and tannerite test. The empirical evidence says you are on the losing side of the argument. I would punch out now.

Josh

 

[overgunned]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Google-fu

overgunned,

If you do have 36 Leupolds in the stable you should have put a couple thousand on each to verify tracking and stability. You note that you rarely get out to ranges where a canted reticle might REALLY show up. You are attempting to refute the first hand knowledge of a rifle instructor at Rifles Only that sees them come through, and fail, on a regular basis?

Maybe you should take a class down there and let Frank check it for you. He does a sweet drop and tannerite test. The empirical evidence says you are on the losing side of the argument. I would punch out now.

Josh</div></div>

Where did I note that I actually do not get out to ranges where a canted reticle may show up? Did you dream this up? Where?

I do not believe I was trying to "refute" anything as far as Frank's experiences go with Leupold. I've no reason to not believe what he says. None. That said, his experiences aside, the fact I have used 36 Leupys with no failures remains unchanged.......

 

[MinorDamage]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: overgunned</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Where did I note that I actually do not get out to ranges where a canted reticle may show up? Did you dream this up? Where?

I do not believe I was trying to "refute" anything as far as Frank's experiences go with Leupold. I've no reason to not believe what he says. None. That said, his experiences aside, the fact I have used 36 Leupys with no failures remains unchanged....... </div></div>

Yeah, my bad. I got you mixed up with "cuffm" from the first page. You actually gave zero data even though Frank asked for it multiple times. Glad the Leupolds work for you. I'll stick with my USOs.

Josh

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

In this case, <span style="font-style: italic">"used"</span> can be considered subjective...

As well I think we have established of the 36+ you checked very few if any at all and I am willing to go so far as to say if you did box test any of them it was less than 8 MOA, probably closer to 4MOA which shows you absolutely nothing as most errors don't appear until closer to 20MOA or more.

Returning to zero is very misleading, the issues are more about compounding errors.

 

[overgunned]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

Now Frank asked for data? What data? About what?

My shit hasn't broke yet. That's all the data I have. Never made any other claims about anything.......

 

[overgunned]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

You have a funny way of "establishing facts" Frank.

Sounds like a bunch of gross assumptions to me.

I think I'm done here. You can go back to thinking that you are the only one in the world who knows about scopes and uses them enough to validate a worthwhile opinion...........

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Leupold customer service experience

I know lots of people educated and experienced enough to speak on the subject... it is after all a very large focus of this website. I even provided links as well others have provided links to put that into context.

We also know when certain question and points are being avoided, and such avoidance is usually due to a lack of experience. When it doesn't apply, ignore and avoid. As you can see I am not the only one who noted your dodgy answers... Many people take it for granted their optics are right, we see it all the time. Hunters, like many Gold Ring Aficionados rarely check these things and are happy with minute of mule deer, after half a box of ammo per season. While it does constitute "use" you'd be hard pressed to qualify that use alongside people who put 1000s of round down range a month as well as see people from all over the country use and abuse their kit.

We get it, 200 rifles, 36 Leupolds, at unknown competitions... yet absolutely no details as to where and when, and with who, and no comment on your particular method of verification. That to us, speaks volumes.